Old 12-05-2019, 08:02 PM   #1
playtimer
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Default v6.0+dev1205 - December 5 2019

v6.0+dev1205 - December 5 2019
  • + Accessibility: fix alt-key to access menus/close app from TCP/MCP
  • + Arrange: optimize drawing of offline/forced offline text on small items [t=228018]
  • + FX: improve automated parameter behavior when moving items with FX automation across tracks [t=227956]
  • + Media items: add preference to set imported media items with embedded tempo to auto-stretch at project tempo changes
  • + Media items: fix issues with very fast vertical mouse-moves of items on multiple tracks
  • + Mixer panels: fix very-large-size display bug [p=2210941]
  • + Mixer: fix mouse-away detection [t=228088]
  • + Mouse modifiers: add modifier to adjust loop source start/end by dragging media item contents
  • + Undo: improve FX parameter restoring when undoing the addition of envelopes/parameter modulation/LFO [t=227956]
  • # Mouse modifiers: better handling of editing loop section via mouse modifier when only one loop iteration is showing
    # hidpi theme updates
This thread is for pre-release features discussion. Use the Feature Requests forum for other requests.

Changelog - Pre-Releases

Generated by X-Raym's REAPER ChangeLog to BBCode
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Old 12-05-2019, 08:29 PM   #2
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Will try the new modifiers tommorow. Please consider a preference/ ME Option to maintain timestretch when dragging from media explorer into plugins: a sampler or drum machine or synth.
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Old 12-06-2019, 01:30 AM   #3
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I would really like to see CC #64 lane supporting curves, because there is software like Pianoteq that supports continuous CC #64. It's just a CC, it has a fully valid range of 0-127!

That, and yes, don't forget that MIDI CC LFO needs to have a Commit button because right now it's pretty destructive (as it was shown in 1204 dev thread)...
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Old 12-06-2019, 01:59 AM   #4
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+ Mouse modifiers: add modifier to adjust loop source start/end by dragging media item contents

Thanks guys! Will test it asap!

Regarding importing media from media explorer.

Please consider adding option that the media item (not the track) we just dragged into the arrange can inherit the volume level set by the current value of the the media explorer volume fader

It would help so much as we tend to have the media explorer volume at the right level to work with our overall gain structure so would make for not going and adjusting this again or being shocked when the item in the arrange is a lot louder.
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Old 12-06-2019, 02:36 AM   #5
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https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=228111

There's also this bug.
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Old 12-06-2019, 03:07 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by playtimer View Post
v6.0+dev1205 - December 5 2019
[*]+ Mouse modifiers: add modifier to adjust loop source start/end by dragging media item contents
[*]# Mouse modifiers: better handling of editing loop section via mouse modifier when only one loop iteration is showing
Thanks a lot for both the updates! Now when we drag the edge to start a new loop section, resets properly and works great

I hope to add the functionality to drag the item and change the looped sections length without changing the whole item's length as we can do with midi...Maybe from those triangle seperators that indicate the looped sections above the item..

*I think i found a bug also. When an item is looped and i use the move item contents- just move, the contents move to the opposite direction of the mouse. I tried move item contents without snap and it works as it should.

Here's the bug by adjusting the loop section from the edge and then using move item contents-just move.


Last edited by Vagelis; 12-06-2019 at 03:55 AM.
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Old 12-06-2019, 06:02 AM   #7
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The new mouse modifier for loop slipping works great thanks!

Regarding the fade parameter in the item properties..

Would it be crazy to ask for an option to change what kind of curve that is?

No worries if that's too hard. It works pretty well as is!
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Old 12-06-2019, 06:02 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
That, and yes, don't forget that MIDI CC LFO needs to have a Commit button because right now it's pretty destructive (as it was shown in 1204 dev thread)...
I wasn't able to reproduce this, but we did add something in dev1205 that might prevent it. Is it still happening for you?
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Old 12-06-2019, 06:06 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by playtimer View Post
v6.0+dev1205 - December 5 2019
  • + Accessibility: fix alt-key to access menus/close app from TCP/MCP
Thanks for the prompt fix.
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Old 12-06-2019, 06:18 AM   #10
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I wasn't able to reproduce this, but we did add something in dev1205 that might prevent it. Is it still happening for you?
Now it doesn't happen unless you change from Time selection to Entire item, and then change any parameters. Or just change any parameter when you open it for the first time. Which is at least some prevention, so yes it is better.

But the problem, in and of itself, is this: we should be able to revert to the state we had BEFORE we opened the CC LFO, without requiring us to undo. Simply adding Apply (or Commit) button and Cancel button to CC LFO dialog would do that. Unless that was not the intention here?
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Old 12-06-2019, 06:28 AM   #11
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Default Bug ???

Hi ¡

When rendering via Renderque using time selection the begining of the files is rendered with no sound.

Only happens via renderque.

Does it happens to any body else ?

I wrote it here becuase don't know if it's really a bug.

Thanks an congratulations for R6 realease ¡¡¡

All ready purchase my new LK

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Old 12-06-2019, 07:13 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by playtimer View Post
v6.0+dev1205 - December 5 2019

+ Media items: add preference to set imported media items with embedded tempo to auto-stretch at project tempo changes

Guys, can we please get the API for this new timebase? Currently, API says beats (auto-stretch at tempo changes) is the same as beats (position, length, rate).

This breaks some SWS actions that report timebase state of selected items and it also makes it impossible to properly implement this new timebase into various existing macros because they depend on that API and SWS.

Pretty please
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Old 12-06-2019, 07:49 AM   #13
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Old 12-06-2019, 07:50 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Vagelis View Post
Thanks a lot for both the updates! Now when we drag the edge to start a new loop section, resets properly and works great

I hope to add the functionality to drag the item and change the looped sections length without changing the whole item's length as we can do with midi...Maybe from those triangle seperators that indicate the looped sections above the item..
Yeah, the loop length must be changed as a consequence of changing left or right sections (this is where magic can happen).

"Using the triangle separators" as a new modifiers context would be imo the best approach for 2 reasons:
1) Simplified and better User Experience as we are moving and clicking what we really want to move(offset)
2) we can have other derived modifiers without cluttering other modifier contexts like "move section left fallow grid snap" or "offset loop length left" or "offset loop length fallow grid snap"

I understand it's more work! So .. whatever .. thanks

Last edited by deeb; 12-06-2019 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 12-06-2019, 08:11 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I would really like to see CC #64 lane supporting curves, because there is software like Pianoteq that supports continuous CC #64. It's just a CC, it has a fully valid range of 0-127
ED is absolutely right. It should be treated like any other CC, especially as VSTs advance and support continuous CC, half pedaling etc. It shouldn't be treated differently than other CC. If instruments only support on/off then users can just use square but don't lock out instruments that support more.
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Old 12-06-2019, 08:34 AM   #16
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Not to mention that some plugins can use CC #64 not as a sustain pedal but something completely different, but with full 0-127 range.
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Old 12-06-2019, 08:51 AM   #17
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Quote:
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Not to mention that some plugins can use CC #64 not as a sustain pedal but something completely different, but with full 0-127 range.
👍 Also this.
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Old 12-06-2019, 08:55 AM   #18
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New portable install of dev1205 with default theme - nothing else installed.

Record button is incorrectly displayed, there is no track name edit field and no track names are displayed either. Again, portable install with no other previous themes installed.



I'm guessing this shouldn't be happening?
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Old 12-06-2019, 11:36 AM   #19
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Wasn't added a setting that opens plugins in the center of the screen by default, or didn't I find it?
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Old 12-06-2019, 11:38 AM   #20
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Nope.
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Old 12-06-2019, 11:46 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanick View Post
Wasn't added a setting that opens plugins in the center of the screen by default, or didn't I find it?
You're probably thinking of that setting in Advanced UI Settings for modal windows.. you can set that up to make certain windows open in the center of the main window, but your guess is as good as mine as to which ones support that. Not the FX window.
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Old 12-06-2019, 12:12 PM   #22
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After playing more with adjust start/end modifier, it would be nice if we had also a seperate adjust start modifier for the reason: we could have the adjust start modifier as default modifier for media item edge so that it always resets when we move the edge before the first indicator. This is useful for faster looping after we move the edge again to start looping the item.
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Old 12-06-2019, 01:27 PM   #23
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Editing loop source start/end would be more user friendly in separate waveform view.

Separate waveform view would provide:
  1. Show waveform contents also outside of current loop section and outside of current item edges. That would be useful also for crossfade editing.
  2. Easy moving of start or end of loop section without changing item length.
  3. Clear zoomed view of waveform with own time ruler and clear loop section indicators. No need to assign and learn complex mouse modifiers.
  4. Allow more non-destructive loop editing features. Currently Reaper supports only changing loop start/end. There could be many useful non-destructive loop editing features like fades, volume/pan/pitch/fx envelopes, stretching, etc.
Here is an old example from Ableton Live

This example was originally posted in this old thread https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=133847

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Old 12-06-2019, 02:05 PM   #24
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Ableton seems nice, I tried Bitwig also and I found that they took it even further, actually similar how Reaper handles the looped sections with midi but everything happens on the arrange for audio as well . To loop the source you drag from the bottom half edge ,to adjust the start of the loop you drag from the upper half (first gif) , similar to reaper adjust start/end but it’s only adjust start. (I mentioned above that it would be nice if we also had adjust start modifier)
The looped sections length in Bitwig, can change on the arrange from the item’s loop separator, similar to the midi items in Reaper! Much faster and nicer than Live.(second gif)
What is not possible by not showing the samples inside the item, is that we can’t change the length of each looped sample (even though with the new modifier to slip the looped contents is something similar)





if we could see the looped samples inside the item on the arrange , as we can do with inline editor and notes, so that we could change their length and if we could change the length of the looped sections from the loop separator without changing item’s length, all that combined with the new modifiers of this dev prerelease, Reaper would have the best implementation of all.

Last edited by Vagelis; 12-06-2019 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 12-06-2019, 03:26 PM   #25
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Quote:
+ Accessibility: fix alt-key to access menus/close app from TCP/MCP
Would it be possible to make it so when the "Prevent ALT key from focusing menu" is on, it would not focus the FX chain menu nor the plugin menu.

It's so annoying. I have it sorted out with Autohotkey, but then some 3rd party plugins don't work as expected.

Currently:
(v6.01x64, Win7x64)
1) press ALT
2) press SPACE
PROBLEM: The menu appears. (Having space as a global shortcut does not help).
EXPECTED: Nothing appears, space goes to Reaper itself.

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Old 12-06-2019, 04:30 PM   #26
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Unless I use the draw tool for the first point, when I try to use an "insert CC event" mouse modifier, I get squares instead of curves.

Using "insert CC event" modifier:



Draw tool for first point, then "insert CC event" modifier for subsequent points:



Is there any way to get curves without having to use the draw tool for that first point?
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Old 12-07-2019, 07:25 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagelis View Post
Ableton seems nice, I tried Bitwig also and I found that they took it even further, actually similar how Reaper handles the looped sections with midi but everything happens on the arrange for audio as well . To loop the source you drag from the bottom half edge ,to adjust the start of the loop you drag from the upper half (first gif) , similar to reaper adjust start/end but it’s only adjust start. (I mentioned above that it would be nice if we also had adjust start modifier)
The looped sections length in Bitwig, can change on the arrange from the item’s loop separator, similar to the midi items in Reaper! Much faster and nicer than Live.(second gif)
What is not possible by not showing the samples inside the item, is that we can’t change the length of each looped sample (even though with the new modifier to slip the looped contents is something similar)





if we could see the looped samples inside the item on the arrange , as we can do with inline editor and notes, so that we could change their length and if we could change the length of the looped sections from the loop separator without changing item’s length, all that combined with the new modifiers of this dev prerelease, Reaper would have the best implementation of all.
I think we are refering different things. Can you do an example like in the previous post to yours in Ableton dealing with a loop but in bitwig?
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Old 12-07-2019, 08:13 AM   #28
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Thinking a bit more about loop section editing, there are at least two separate use cases:
  1. Changing item length (the item could be already looped) to adjust loop timing without stretching contents. Good example of this was shown here by Schwa. This edit operation works intuitively in arrange view. And the new mouse modifier action "Adjust loop section start/end" for "Media item edge, left drag" context does this pretty well.
  2. Changing loop section length and/or position in source without changing item length. This is handy for example to select different drum hits to be used in loop, or for finding interesting new rythmic/polyrythmic patterns. Example of this is shown in the Ableton Live example above. This type of editing can be done in arrange view, but it could be more flexible in separate waveform view. The new mouse modifier "Move loop section contents ignoring snap" for "Media item, left drag" context helps somewhat in this use case, but it is a bit limited. It would be useful to support also snapping. And even more importantly, also requested by Vagelis, there should be some easy way to change loop section length without changing item's length.

There is also a third use case, supported in Bitwig, where you can create a "mini arrangement" of single or multiple sections of source waveform inside a single loop iteration. And that "mini arrangement" can be then looped. I guess supporting this in Reaper would require quite big changes. And it would probably be difficult to use without separate waveform view for those "mini arrangements". In Reaper, you could use PiPs but that might be a bit overkill for this type of use case.

Also, I could not find any way to actually loop section of MIDI in Reaper. Looks like it is not supported. Or is it?
You can move the loop end point of MIDI item but all MIDI events beyond loop bounds are lost. You can't get the lost events back by later extending the loop. This is a big difference compared to audio looping. It would be nice to have consistent loop section support for both audio and MIDI.

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Old 12-07-2019, 11:29 AM   #29
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To Deeb

In ableton loop selection as shown in jnif’s gif above, sets the length of the looped sections for the item that is selected on the arrange. Bitwig’s way to do this as shown in the second gif of my previous post, is similar to how Reaper’s midi looped sections length changes from those separators as shown in dev 1204 thread, post 20. It is faster than ableton which requires to set the length with the loop on the screen below the arrange, while in reaper and bitwig you do it from those separators on the item faster.
Dragging the loop in ableton to select a new portion of the sample is possible now in Reaper with the new modifier “adjust loop source start/end by dragging media item contents”

Also in bitwig and now in reaper we can set the start of the loop with the new modifier adjust start/end by dragging the edge. Reaper took it further because dragging again after you have set the start of the loop, you can change the length of the looped sections without stretching them but by changing item’s length also.
This is a feature only in Reaper, what’s missing, as referred many times, is to change also the length of the looped sections without changing item’s length.

To jnif

We can already loop the section of midi and change the length, check also my post in dev 1204 post 38 and 20. This should be done the same way for audio items for better consistency.

This mini arrangement that you ‘re referring in bitwig of multiple sections is already possible in reaper for midi. And is the same thing as Ableton’s loop selection but implemented with a faster-better way. Since it is already implemented in reaper for midi, it shouldn’t require big changes to work for audio.

Last edited by Vagelis; 12-07-2019 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 12-07-2019, 11:39 AM   #30
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Thanks Vagelis! , but could you make a licecap doing what i am doing with a loop in this licecap but in Bitwig ? Would be much more easier to understand and easier perception then by reading

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Old 12-07-2019, 01:33 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagelis View Post

We can already loop the section of midi and change their length, check also my post in dev 1204 post 38 and 20. This should be done the same way for audio items for better consistency.
Looks like MIDI looping is not really working on a section of MIDI source. Changing loop length in MIDI item will actually change the lenght of the underlying MIDI source. All MIDI outside the loop is lost when loop length is shortened. The same does not happen with audio.
Here is an example:


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Old 12-07-2019, 01:47 PM   #32
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Thanks Vagelis! , but could you make a licecap doing what i am doing with a loop in this licecap but in Bitwig ? Would be much more easier to understand and easier perception then by reading


Adjusting the start of the loop in ableton, is similar with the adjust start modifier in Reaper when you drag the left edge of the item with the only difference that in reaper the item length is changing. That’s not possible in bitwig I think..
Adjusting the end of the loop in ableton is similar with the adjust end modifier in Reaper when you drag the right edge of the item, with the same difference that the item’s length is changing. Which is great and something new.
In Bitwig you can do the same by dragging the line-separator on the item, just as with midi items in Reaper, without changing item’s length.

Dragging the loop in ableton (both start,end), to select a new portion of the sample is similar with the ”adjust loop source start/end by dragging media item contents” modifier in Reaper. In bitwig is possible also as it is shown in the gif when the contents are sliding.

What you did by dragging the cursor (start marker) and sliding the contents, is similar to move item contents modifier in Reaper and is not possible in bitwig because when the items are looped, it treats them like they ‘re pooled. So sliding contents in bitwig works just as our new modifier adjust by dragging contents when the item is looping.
Something that i ‘ve noticed in ableton is that sliding the contents moves the line separators also.

*EDIT: i made another test to check better the start marker in ableton, if you move it after or before the start of the loop and then move the start of the loop, it offsets the start of the whole looping section, meaning that the first separator offsets to the right, as all the others after it. This is useful to shift the whole looped section and start to loop e.g from the middle of the item to the end of it . Which means that the first half of the item doesn’t loop.
That would be a nice addition for Reaper.

*All I think that we need is another adjust start/end, or just adjust end modifier, that will change the loop length on the item, without changing its length.

Last edited by Vagelis; 12-08-2019 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 12-07-2019, 01:51 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnif View Post
Looks like MIDI looping is not really working on a section of MIDI source. Changing loop length in MIDI item will actually change the lenght of the underlying MIDI source. All MIDI outside the loop is lost when loop length is shortened. The same does not happen with audio.
Here is an example:


jnif
Propably because your audio sample is short, try it again with a longer sample.

*See above my example in bitwig with a longer sample when i change the length by dragging from the separator.

Edit: Also in your example with audio your not changing the end loop as you do with midi because it's not possible for audio yet, you are adjusting only the start.
So if you set a smaller start loop for midi as well, it won't lose the midi outside because it will be shorter the loop from start. On the other hand removing the midi notes when the loop is shorter, might be a bug.

Last edited by Vagelis; 12-08-2019 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 12-08-2019, 08:17 AM   #34
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After using more our start/end modifier, all I can say it’s freaking awesome as it works! Especially when the item is looping and you split it, after if you drag both of the item edges with the modifier, there’s some magic going on because it changes the speed of the loop from both items depending the side we drag! Game changer!

Huge thanks to the Devs!
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Old 12-08-2019, 08:33 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagelis View Post
After using more our start/end modifier, all I can say it’s freaking awesome as it works! Especially when the item is looping and you split it, after if you drag both of the item edges with the modifier, there’s some magic going on because it changes the speed of the loop from both items depending the side we drag! Game changer!

Huge thanks to the Devs!
Yep yep! is really good Thanks to devs and to you too ! there are probably still some minor glitches still:





Anyway! Awesome thing to have! wawawawweee
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Old 12-08-2019, 08:40 AM   #36
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Thanks Deeb! In your example it might not be a glitch because when you show one separator and then you drag the edge, the edge first snaps to the size that’s between the grid line and the separator and after it snaps to the next grid.
In other words the edge snaps to the grid line plus the separator.
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Old 12-08-2019, 08:46 AM   #37
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I am not sure.. In the first gif it defenetly does not feel natural. Grid is on 1 bar and looks like reaper is confused by the section start/length and tries to snap to it either.
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Old 12-08-2019, 08:52 AM   #38
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Also when doing this:


I don't expect the midi clip length to change... i am just adjusting section start / length .. not the midi item length. So midi item length should stay the same. Like every example we had in this thread from other DAWs ( and like reaper does with midi already when adjusting section ) . No? otherwise it's cumbersome to work on a real production scenario which midi clip full length is already defined, and we are looking for the magic wihout having to readjust the midi length constantly.

Also: I still would prefer to be able to drag on section indicators to do this.

Last edited by deeb; 12-08-2019 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 12-08-2019, 09:10 AM   #39
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After thinking more of how it works, I think that it’s the same result with different way which I ‘ m starting to like maybe more.
In midi, first you have to drag the item edge to the desired length and then to drag the loop indicator to change the loop length.
With start/end modifier you do the opposite, first you drag to change the loop length and then you drag the edge of the item to the desired length.
The big thing is that by adjusting the left edge with the modifier adjusts only the start of the loop , while adjusting the right edge It adjusts the end of the loop , just as in ableton’s loop start/end but in reaper we can do it on the item on the arrange!

What you mean and it would be nice to have also, is another adjust start/end, or just adjust end modifier, for the loop indicators in order to drag them and change the loop length without changing whole item’s length.

Last edited by Vagelis; 12-08-2019 at 09:17 AM.
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Old 12-08-2019, 09:14 AM   #40
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I can't see an advantage by being forced to readjust item length and is not coherent.

It's "adjust section start/length" and not "adjust item length and section start/length"
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