Old 09-24-2019, 02:58 PM   #1
Dork Lard
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Default "Processed" Guitars

I'm wondering if any of you guys on here have any notion of how to generate that processed guitar sound, like here and now on Reaper.

The sound I'm talking about is that digitized gtr sound you hear in industrial rock/metal bands (NIN, Fear Factory, some nu-metal) or soundtracks for videogames.

So you'd record your gtr through your amp...and then ? What. Do you have just a plugin that would transform the gtr takes ? Or ...

I know there are multiple ways to get this and I'd like to just read some posts, anything at all on the subject.
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Old 09-24-2019, 04:26 PM   #2
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No the process is called mixing. It is an art-form of its own.
You take as many good recorded guitars and start mixing them using plugins, fx, level, panning...

There is no formula or algorithm on how to do it correctly - it is a creative process. Trial and error, there is actually no error but something that would not sound good enough.

Experiment, find your methods of doing it, if you will.
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Old 09-24-2019, 05:19 PM   #3
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For rhythm stuff, start thinking in quad-tracked parts. LOTS of editing to get them razor-blade tight, but it's one sure way to get that "massive" rhythm GT sound.
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Old 09-24-2019, 06:14 PM   #4
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recording an actual amp for this seems like a waste of time if all you're after is processed digital distortion. you can just use something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=21nm-l8dMpE

you're basically after wave mapping/shaping.
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Old 09-24-2019, 06:39 PM   #5
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No the process is called mixing. It is an art-form of its own.
You take as many good recorded guitars and start mixing them using plugins, fx, level, panning...

There is no formula or algorithm on how to do it correctly - it is a creative process. Trial and error, there is actually no error but something that would not sound good enough.

Experiment, find your methods of doing it, if you will.
Agreed.

It's not going to be anywhere near as simple as "Slap a flanger on it, and call it a day."
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Old 09-25-2019, 10:33 AM   #6
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Youíd have to give us a specific example. NiN does all kinds of horrible things to guitars. They are all ďprocessedĒ one way or another, but which one do you actually want?
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Old 09-25-2019, 12:21 PM   #7
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It's probably the ultra-realism tightness thing that stands out more than any specific sound. A run of 16th notes with a few specific 16th rests thrown in where you don't hear a hint of schmutz hanging over on the rests and that kind of thing.

Super tight editing like SoundGuyDave said. It also helps if you have the skills to play and lay down ultra tight performances. Some of the modern metal guys are more talented than some people might want to admit.
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Old 09-26-2019, 02:59 AM   #8
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recording an actual amp for this seems like a waste of time if all you're after is processed digital distortion. you can just use something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=21nm-l8dMpE

you're basically after wave mapping/shaping.
yeaahhhh, Trash. Forgot all about that plugin. Thanks. I used Trash 1 before with crap results, probably misused it badly. I'll try 2, see if I can mix it with recorded guitars and come up with that digital type tone.

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It's probably the ultra-realism tightness thing that stands out more than any specific sound. A run of 16th notes with a few specific 16th rests thrown in where you don't hear a hint of schmutz hanging over on the rests and that kind of thing.

Super tight editing like SoundGuyDave said. It also helps if you have the skills to play and lay down ultra tight performances. Some of the modern metal guys are more talented than some people might want to admit.
yeah I've done that, super tight takes and editing ...but with very mediocre results. You do need the actual sound to be deep and gorgeous.
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Old 09-26-2019, 03:11 AM   #9
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You’d have to give us a specific example. NiN does all kinds of horrible things to guitars. They are all “processed” one way or another, but which one do you actually want?
off the top of my head:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv5Jvr2Fp48

Just SOMETHING like that, not precisely that exact sound. What would that be, record guitar take with amp, then add a distortion plugin (would Trash help in that way ?), a bunch of compression (but how many and how much compression ?..), what's the EQ like here ?..
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Old 09-26-2019, 06:53 AM   #10
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On the 'character of sound' end of things, you can go off the deep end like Robert Fripp or Adrian Belew. Probably the definition of processed guitar sounds!
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Old 09-26-2019, 09:42 AM   #11
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Iíd probably skip the amp altogether. Direct in, distortion and EQ. Gate or manually edit. Layer with a few different synths.
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Old 09-26-2019, 10:25 AM   #12
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It's glorious isn't it. Yeah and nowhere close to "do something with a guitar track" I think. Must be multiple layers of stuff, quality sound design.
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Old 09-26-2019, 04:30 PM   #13
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More like using a dash of guitar to add colour to the saw-wave synths....
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Old 09-28-2019, 04:39 AM   #14
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Iíd probably skip the amp altogether. Direct in, distortion and EQ. Gate or manually edit. Layer with a few different synths.
so you think the guitar directly plugged into the soundcard and then add the plugins (distortion EQ etc) ? might be too thin a sound that way.
What do you mean by "layer with some synths", like play separate tracks with synths playing the same part or (somehow) mix a synth sound directly into the guitar track ?

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It's glorious isn't it. Yeah and nowhere close to "do something with a guitar track" I think. Must be multiple layers of stuff, quality sound design.
I love the electronic, 'sanitized' feel. It's both more dirty and more clean simultaneously than organic distortion guitars.
So there's actual gtrs in there and distorted synths you think ?
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Old 09-28-2019, 07:45 AM   #15
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so you think the guitar directly plugged into the soundcard and then add the plugins (distortion EQ etc) ? might be too thin a sound that way.
Only if you do it wrong. Honestly most of NiNís guitars all the way back to PHM sound like direct recordings to me. Maybe with a distortion pedal on the way in, maybe just crank up the preamps until they fall apart. Iím not sure there were too many actual speakers involved.
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What do you mean by "layer with some synths", like play separate tracks with synths playing the same part or (somehow) mix a synth sound directly into the guitar track ?
Double the guitars as tightly as possible with other synths. Like somebody said maybe some saw synths. I didnít listen too closely to your link, but I thought I heard like a noise synth in there too. Those guitars on their own probably are fairly thin, but thereís definitely something else happening to fill it out. Maybe try gating the synths and guitars together or via sidechain.

Most important though is to not worry too much about exactly duplicating the tone, but rather to use similar techniques to create something unique of your own.
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Old 09-28-2019, 01:02 PM   #16
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Only if you do it wrong. Honestly most of NiNís guitars all the way back to PHM sound like direct recordings to me. Maybe with a distortion pedal on the way in, maybe just crank up the preamps until they fall apart. Iím not sure there were too many actual speakers involved.

Double the guitars as tightly as possible with other synths. Like somebody said maybe some saw synths. I didnít listen too closely to your link, but I thought I heard like a noise synth in there too. Those guitars on their own probably are fairly thin, but thereís definitely something else happening to fill it out. Maybe try gating the synths and guitars together or via sidechain.

Most important though is to not worry too much about exactly duplicating the tone, but rather to use similar techniques to create something unique of your own.
had never heard the term sidechain before, just watched two vids on YT, I have an idea now.

And yeah I agree I'll be looking for my own sound but I just have no clue at all on how to even start getting there, so I'm curious what people think that NIN sound is. Like I wouldn't have thought of a synth playing at the same time, I just assumed it was a retouched guitar.
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Old 09-28-2019, 02:39 PM   #17
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I'll be looking for my own sound but I just have no clue at all on how to even start getting there
That's the best way to find your own sound! Reznor has had his influences, but in the beginning he didn't have the budget to do what he does now, and what he does now evolved out of that. Better to wail away finding your way to your own sound than to get too wrapped up in how someone else does it, beyond some basic stuff. Aiming for the esthetic but NOT being too concerned with using the same methods they did is a better way to your own sound
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Old 09-28-2019, 06:19 PM   #18
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the opening of the NiN guitars sounds quite strong on the bandpass eq. getting rid of the full spectrum of the guitar sounds is one of the easiest and most powerful ways to transform the guitar into a more synthetic sound

OOPS that was the next track auto playing - anyways the bandpass thing still holds
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Old 09-28-2019, 08:05 PM   #19
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Double the guitars as tightly as possible with other synths. Like somebody said maybe some saw synths. I didnít listen too closely to your link, but I thought I heard like a noise synth in there too. Those guitars on their own probably are fairly thin, but thereís definitely something else happening to fill it out. Maybe try gating the synths and guitars together or via sidechain.
One good trick is as follows: Record a CLEAN DI guitar track, then double it best as possible with a saw-wave synth. Square wave will be too bright, and sine too boring. Process the guitar with a solid amp sim (LePou Lectro is a great free starting point)and add a cab emulator and 4x12 cab IR. Get that dialled in as best you can for a nice heavy sound (not TOO much gain though!). Then gate it, before the amp sim to eliminate the release portion of the envelope. Copy the gate and slap it on after the synth, then use the guitar track to trigger the synth gate. Blend the two to taste.

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Most important though is to not worry too much about exactly duplicating the tone, but rather to use similar techniques to create something unique of your own.
And there's the best advice of all! Experiment, and the ideas will start to flow. Throw compressors on the guitar between the gate and amp sim, as well as after the cab sim, for example. There are a WEALTH of tones to be found from the pre comp, and lots of interesting things with HEAVY compression on the post comp. Sum the two together and then pitch shift the result by +14 cents and -14 cents, and set up a stereo spread with the three signals. Try shifting the synth a 5th up, or an octave down. Key-gate a white noise track off the guitar, and play with filtering, then blend it in. That doesn't even touch time-based stuff like fast chorus, flange, or delay.
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Old 09-29-2019, 01:09 AM   #20
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off the top of my head:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv5Jvr2Fp48

Just SOMETHING like that, not precisely that exact sound. What would that be, record guitar take with amp, then add a distortion plugin (would Trash help in that way ?), a bunch of compression (but how many and how much compression ?..), what's the EQ like here ?..
One "Big Picture..." thing that is worth noting here...

- A lot of that is Chris Vrenna. I think he might even have composed the main theme. That guy being particularly crafty is something that I would not underestimate when it comes to trying to pick it apart in "Nuts"/"Bolt" terms. Having Chris and Charlie gets you halfway there no matter what gear you have.

As for those nuts and bolts, you could grab a sense of humor and take a look through these threads. Keep a particular eye out for Charlie Clouser's posts inside of the first Gearslutz thread.

- https://www.gearslutz.com/board/elec...-question.html

- https://www.gearslutz.com/board/elec...nch-nails.html

- https://www.reddit.com/r/nin/comment...undtrack_made/

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Old 09-30-2019, 12:46 PM   #21
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One good trick is as follows: Record a CLEAN DI guitar track, then double it best as possible with a saw-wave synth. Square wave will be too bright, and sine too boring. Process the guitar with a solid amp sim (LePou Lectro is a great free starting point)and add a cab emulator and 4x12 cab IR. Get that dialled in as best you can for a nice heavy sound (not TOO much gain though!). Then gate it, before the amp sim to eliminate the release portion of the envelope. Copy the gate and slap it on after the synth, then use the guitar track to trigger the synth gate. Blend the two to taste.


And there's the best advice of all! Experiment, and the ideas will start to flow. Throw compressors on the guitar between the gate and amp sim, as well as after the cab sim, for example. There are a WEALTH of tones to be found from the pre comp, and lots of interesting things with HEAVY compression on the post comp. Sum the two together and then pitch shift the result by +14 cents and -14 cents, and set up a stereo spread with the three signals. Try shifting the synth a 5th up, or an octave down. Key-gate a white noise track off the guitar, and play with filtering, then blend it in. That doesn't even touch time-based stuff like fast chorus, flange, or delay.
wow, those are instructions I actually understand and can apply. I'll do it ASAP, but I'll still record the clean guitar take through my 5150 amp no distortion, clean channel, it'll be much better sound quality wise that way rather than clean straight to the soundcard for sure. And then I'll try to follow those instructions and post a sample link here... and you guys can tell me where I fucked up.

About finding your own sound: again, if you're just randomly trying stuff with very little actual knowledge, you could potentially lose years (which I have, remote experimentation) where you could just ask someone who's got a clue on a forum and at least be sent on the right path.
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Old 09-30-2019, 02:36 PM   #22
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wow, those are instructions I actually understand and can apply. I'll do it ASAP, but I'll still record the clean guitar take through my 5150 amp no distortion, clean channel, it'll be much better sound quality wise that way rather than clean straight to the soundcard for sure. And then I'll try to follow those instructions and post a sample link here... and you guys can tell me where I fucked up.

About finding your own sound: again, if you're just randomly trying stuff with very little actual knowledge, you could potentially lose years (which I have, remote experimentation) where you could just ask someone who's got a clue on a forum and at least be sent on the right path.
The reason why he suggested to go DI rather than mic your actual amp is to utilize the Amp Sim/Cab IR.

IMHO, you'll have more flexibility with VSTs than your amp at this moment, especially when you're experimenting with a sound. If you choose to record your amp rather than use the suggest method above, you'll find yourself re-recording the same take over and over again experimenting with things like different mic positions when you could just tweak your VST to get the desired results. Once you can achieve the tone you want on the VST, replicate the setup in real life with actual gear. You got this man.
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Old 09-30-2019, 10:06 PM   #23
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Exactly. The amp sim and cab IR are massive variables on the guitar tone, but it's simple to play with when you have a stable, non-variable source. Don't like the Lectro (Rectifier) amp sim? No sweat, try the PRS Supermodels, and you don't have to re-record the track to do so. Hell, you could run three different amps and three different cab sims just on sends off the one clean DI track and so some blending there, as well. Bottom end from a rectifier, mids from a plexi, and top end from a Soldano? No problem. They all start with a clean DI track, though. Plus, if you mic your amp, there will be some compression to the signal, and that makes key-gating a LOT more difficult.
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Old 09-30-2019, 11:03 PM   #24
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Exactly. The amp sim and cab IR are massive variables on the guitar tone, but it's simple to play with when you have a stable, non-variable source. Don't like the Lectro (Rectifier) amp sim? No sweat, try the PRS Supermodels, and you don't have to re-record the track to do so. Hell, you could run three different amps and three different cab sims just on sends off the one clean DI track and so some blending there, as well. Bottom end from a rectifier, mids from a plexi, and top end from a Soldano? No problem. They all start with a clean DI track, though. Plus, if you mic your amp, there will be some compression to the signal, and that makes key-gating a LOT more difficult.
While I don't disagree, I'm not sure how much said flexibility would get you to the "NIN" guitar sound.

That Zoom unit was almost entirely their sound, and I can't really think of any VST/IR versions of it off of the top of my head.
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Old 10-03-2019, 02:03 PM   #25
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The reason why he suggested to go DI rather than mic your actual amp is to utilize the Amp Sim/Cab IR.

IMHO, you'll have more flexibility with VSTs than your amp at this moment, especially when you're experimenting with a sound. If you choose to record your amp rather than use the suggest method above, you'll find yourself re-recording the same take over and over again experimenting with things like different mic positions when you could just tweak your VST to get the desired results. Once you can achieve the tone you want on the VST, replicate the setup in real life with actual gear. You got this man.
oh I should've mentioned I use a Two Notes Captor (no cab n mic), a little attenuator box with a cab sim, straight into my soundcard. I then play with the plugins quite a bit (including a cab sim software).

I'll come back with something you guys can listen to, it'll likely be pretty shit but then you can tell me what you think would make it a bit more listenable if you like.
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Old 10-04-2019, 12:57 PM   #26
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oh I should've mentioned I use a Two Notes Captor (no cab n mic), a little attenuator box with a cab sim, straight into my soundcard. I then play with the plugins quite a bit (including a cab sim software).
That still puts some "effect" on the guitar itself, though... I'm assuming that since you're using a load box, your signal chain is Guitar-->pedals of some sort-->amp-->load box? This means that your "printed" signal has all of that chain embedded in it, and cannot be altered. "Printing" a raw DI signal would allow you to re-amp once you get closer to a finished signal. You can play with amp models and cabs to your heart's content with the DI track, and feed a pre-FX hardware output to your physical amp, through the Captor, and then print THAT as well. By printing only the Captor track, you're committing to the dynamics and tones present at that point. You may not want to do that if you're doing post-processing. OR, print both a raw DI track and the Captor track at the same time. You can use the raw track for dynamics triggering, sample triggering, etc. It just adds a layer of flexibility for experimentation.
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Old 10-07-2019, 04:48 AM   #27
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That still puts some "effect" on the guitar itself, though... I'm assuming that since you're using a load box, your signal chain is Guitar-->pedals of some sort-->amp-->load box? This means that your "printed" signal has all of that chain embedded in it, and cannot be altered. "Printing" a raw DI signal would allow you to re-amp once you get closer to a finished signal. You can play with amp models and cabs to your heart's content with the DI track, and feed a pre-FX hardware output to your physical amp, through the Captor, and then print THAT as well. By printing only the Captor track, you're committing to the dynamics and tones present at that point. You may not want to do that if you're doing post-processing. OR, print both a raw DI track and the Captor track at the same time. You can use the raw track for dynamics triggering, sample triggering, etc. It just adds a layer of flexibility for experimentation.
wow sorry too difficult for me to understand exactly what you mean there lol.
Anyways the setup is just guitar into the amphead, amphead into the Captor, Captor into the soundcard.
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:30 PM   #28
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wow sorry too difficult for me to understand exactly what you mean there lol.
Anyways the setup is just guitar into the amphead, amphead into the Captor, Captor into the soundcard.
And the amp head will affect the "sound" of the guitar. Even on a "clean" channel, you're going to get some mild compression (that "tube sound"), plus whatever you do with it tonally. The raw DI track (no compression, no EQ) is basically a "copy" of what came out of your guitar BEFORE it hit the amp.

By recording the DI track, you essentially "capture" the performance itself. Then you can treat that performance to taste, experiment, etc., without being locked into previous decisions. If, for example, you get a "killer crunch tone" from your amp, and print that, you'll have a HELL of a time trying to do any sidechain tricks because the signal is so distorted (no dynamic range).

Also, with a clean DI track, you can re-amp later. Maybe borrow your buddy's Soldano head for a day, rent a Dual Rectifier and a Friedman head? Print "tones" from all three using the DI track as the source.

Using the "output MIDI note" feature of the ReaTune VST will allow you to control a synth with your DI, but a distorted track is much harder for the VST to follow unless played EXTREMELY cleanly.

Re-Amping is a cool technique. You can record all the parts at home at 3AM without annoying anybody. Then, at some time in the future, you just route the DI track to a physical hardware output of your sound card and feed that to your amp of choice (see above!). Add a vintage Marshall 1960A, a nice ribbon and a 57, and it's absolutly no different than playing the guitar into that amp/speaker/mic combo. With the DI track, you capture the performance itself. With the amp/Captor setup, you have embedded the choices you made with the amp into the performance.

Does that make any sense? Couple vids that might help. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46lim9n3ZPM and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2Cf6mGEqn4
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Old 10-08-2019, 02:23 PM   #29
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And the amp head will affect the "sound" of the guitar. Even on a "clean" channel, you're going to get some mild compression (that "tube sound"), plus whatever you do with it tonally. The raw DI track (no compression, no EQ) is basically a "copy" of what came out of your guitar BEFORE it hit the amp.

By recording the DI track, you essentially "capture" the performance itself. Then you can treat that performance to taste, experiment, etc., without being locked into previous decisions. If, for example, you get a "killer crunch tone" from your amp, and print that, you'll have a HELL of a time trying to do any sidechain tricks because the signal is so distorted (no dynamic range).

Also, with a clean DI track, you can re-amp later. Maybe borrow your buddy's Soldano head for a day, rent a Dual Rectifier and a Friedman head? Print "tones" from all three using the DI track as the source.

Using the "output MIDI note" feature of the ReaTune VST will allow you to control a synth with your DI, but a distorted track is much harder for the VST to follow unless played EXTREMELY cleanly.

Re-Amping is a cool technique. You can record all the parts at home at 3AM without annoying anybody. Then, at some time in the future, you just route the DI track to a physical hardware output of your sound card and feed that to your amp of choice (see above!). Add a vintage Marshall 1960A, a nice ribbon and a 57, and it's absolutly no different than playing the guitar into that amp/speaker/mic combo. With the DI track, you capture the performance itself. With the amp/Captor setup, you have embedded the choices you made with the amp into the performance.

Does that make any sense? Couple vids that might help. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46lim9n3ZPM and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2Cf6mGEqn4
It's very kind of you to spend time educating me on this. I humbly accept being spoken to like a retard, because that's close to what I am when it comes to this stuff.

That first video was...absolute fkng gibberish to me, I'm disappointed by how stupid I really am, every word coming out of that guy's mouth I was cringing hard, may've grinded teeth in parts...the second video is still confusing but I suppose I need to listen to them again. It appears this Re-amping thing is quite relevant to my endeavor.

Quote from your post:
"Using the "output MIDI note" feature of the ReaTune VST will allow you to control a synth with your DI, but a distorted track is much harder for the VST to follow unless played EXTREMELY cleanly."

Had no clue you could do that.

What I'd be really interested in is if there were an easy non-hassle way to incorporate synth VST's directly into a recorded guitar take.
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Old 10-08-2019, 03:06 PM   #30
Herr Nox
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Use a guitar library like Shreddage 2. You'll be able to program your notes and chords in the tightest, most artificial way. Then run that clean signal (it sounds like a DI) through an amp simulator, maybe some IR and EQ and voilŗ!

And for an even easier way to do it, you can use Shreddage 3, which has plenty of processing options and presets.
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Old 10-08-2019, 03:08 PM   #31
SoundGuyDave
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Originally Posted by Dork Lard View Post
It's very kind of you to spend time educating me on this. I humbly accept being spoken to like a retard, because that's close to what I am when it comes to this stuff.
You're very welcome! That's what this forum is here for, after all... If you feel I was "talking down" to you, I sincerely apologize, that was in no way my intention. I always try to filter my responses on any forum such as this to be as simply worded, but with as much information as possible. I am a native English-speaker, but as this is an international forum, I can't assume anybody reading this is as well. As a result, I suppose it may seem like I'm "talking down" to someone. Again, my apologies!

Quote:
That first video was...absolute fkng gibberish to me, I'm disappointed by how stupid I really am, every word coming out of that guy's mouth I was cringing hard, may've grinded teeth in parts...the second video is still confusing but I suppose I need to listen to them again. It appears this Re-amping thing is quite relevant to my endeavor.
I thought they might be relevant... Don't get too hung up on the specifics, but look for the generalities, and let your imagination run with what CAN be done. The main thing to take away from this is that the re-amping technique offers a clean-sheet approach to sound design, which is essentially what you're doing. Simply having a clean, unaffected track allows you to then fiddle with it to your heart's content. Don't think of it in terms of "recording a guitar part," think of it as "capturing the performance." Then, go back and start sculpting that performance into the sonic "shape" that you want.

Quote:
Quote from your post:
"Using the "output MIDI note" feature of the ReaTune VST will allow you to control a synth with your DI, but a distorted track is much harder for the VST to follow unless played EXTREMELY cleanly."

Had no clue you could do that.

What I'd be really interested in is if there were an easy non-hassle way to incorporate synth VST's directly into a recorded guitar take.
Give the ReaTune thing a shot, and see what you think. Set up your normal guitar chain and feed a track with it. Add an instance of ReaTune, and tick the box for "Output MIDI note." Create a send from the guitar track to a new track, and on the dialog box, change "Audio -> 1/2" to "Audio -> None" and that should send only MIDI data to the new track. Drop a synth VST on the new track, and see how you like it. I *THINK* this will only work with monophonic sources, so I don't know if you can send a power-chord guitar recording to a synth and have it track.

Just as a poke, I think you're starting to see how powerful re-amping can be as a creative tool. If the "pre-recorded guitar take" in question had an associated DI track, you could use the DI to send to two different synth VSTs. Set up the chain like this: ReaGate-ReaTune-Synth. If you feed that chain with a clean DI guitar, you can play with the attack and release parameters of the two gates to alter how the synth reacts to the guitar. Synth 1 could be fast attack, short release, and suddenly that synth will only respond to the initial transient. Synth 2 could be slow attack (300mS?) long release, and now that synth will only respond to the sustain and decay portions of the guitar signal. Use a percussive hammer-hits-anvil sound added to your pick attack, and a deep, distorted cello sound for the sustained bit. This will work with the DI track, because the envelope of the dry guitar has a significant decay curve. With a distorted guitar, it won't (or at least won't nearly as easily) since the distortion flattens that decay curve drastically. Just look at a clean note and a distortion-guitar note in the track window and I think you'll see what I mean!

As another note, you can SERIOUSLY mess with the envelope shape with just ReaGate and ReaComp, and can get some really creative effects from them. Then, send that messed-with DI track to an amp (VST or real). You can also add synth layers to that as well (pre-FX send from the DI track gets you back to raw again!!). Another tip, particularly working with synth layers... Assuming ReaTune can't track polyphonic info, there are a couple of ways to handle that. Since most guitar chords are "power chords" (root+5th) in that genre, you can set up the a synth to play both the root and a 5th up, and feed it just the root note. In other words, one note in gives you that power chord out.

Another way to handle it is to build your "guitar part" string by string. Track one would be the E string, track two the A string, etc. Tedious, and requires a bit of a new approach to tracking, but after you edit it together and mix the six tracks, it'll sound exactly like a guitar. Mutt Lange did that with Def Leppard back in the day, and it sounds quite good by itself. The other thing it does for you is give you individual voices for each note in a chord, which can then be sent as MIDI data to a synth, yielding a polyphonic net result.
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Old 10-09-2019, 01:38 PM   #32
Dork Lard
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Originally Posted by Herr Nox View Post
Use a guitar library like Shreddage 2. You'll be able to program your notes and chords in the tightest, most artificial way. Then run that clean signal (it sounds like a DI) through an amp simulator, maybe some IR and EQ and voilŗ!

And for an even easier way to do it, you can use Shreddage 3, which has plenty of processing options and presets.
I actually tried that thing. Couldn't get it to work properly, Shreddage 2, like it was very messy and I spent too much time getting too little done. I don't think a VST can replace actual guitars, no matter how processed those are to be in the end. I don't know. Based on my experience.
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Old 10-09-2019, 01:48 PM   #33
Dork Lard
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Originally Posted by SoundGuyDave View Post
You're very welcome! That's what this forum is here for, after all... If you feel I was "talking down" to you, I sincerely apologize, that was in no way my intention. I always try to filter my responses on any forum such as this to be as simply worded, but with as much information as possible. I am a native English-speaker, but as this is an international forum, I can't assume anybody reading this is as well. As a result, I suppose it may seem like I'm "talking down" to someone. Again, my apologies!

I thought they might be relevant... Don't get too hung up on the specifics, but look for the generalities, and let your imagination run with what CAN be done. The main thing to take away from this is that the re-amping technique offers a clean-sheet approach to sound design, which is essentially what you're doing. Simply having a clean, unaffected track allows you to then fiddle with it to your heart's content. Don't think of it in terms of "recording a guitar part," think of it as "capturing the performance." Then, go back and start sculpting that performance into the sonic "shape" that you want.



Give the ReaTune thing a shot, and see what you think. Set up your normal guitar chain and feed a track with it. Add an instance of ReaTune, and tick the box for "Output MIDI note." Create a send from the guitar track to a new track, and on the dialog box, change "Audio -> 1/2" to "Audio -> None" and that should send only MIDI data to the new track. Drop a synth VST on the new track, and see how you like it. I *THINK* this will only work with monophonic sources, so I don't know if you can send a power-chord guitar recording to a synth and have it track.

Just as a poke, I think you're starting to see how powerful re-amping can be as a creative tool. If the "pre-recorded guitar take" in question had an associated DI track, you could use the DI to send to two different synth VSTs. Set up the chain like this: ReaGate-ReaTune-Synth. If you feed that chain with a clean DI guitar, you can play with the attack and release parameters of the two gates to alter how the synth reacts to the guitar. Synth 1 could be fast attack, short release, and suddenly that synth will only respond to the initial transient. Synth 2 could be slow attack (300mS?) long release, and now that synth will only respond to the sustain and decay portions of the guitar signal. Use a percussive hammer-hits-anvil sound added to your pick attack, and a deep, distorted cello sound for the sustained bit. This will work with the DI track, because the envelope of the dry guitar has a significant decay curve. With a distorted guitar, it won't (or at least won't nearly as easily) since the distortion flattens that decay curve drastically. Just look at a clean note and a distortion-guitar note in the track window and I think you'll see what I mean!

As another note, you can SERIOUSLY mess with the envelope shape with just ReaGate and ReaComp, and can get some really creative effects from them. Then, send that messed-with DI track to an amp (VST or real). You can also add synth layers to that as well (pre-FX send from the DI track gets you back to raw again!!). Another tip, particularly working with synth layers... Assuming ReaTune can't track polyphonic info, there are a couple of ways to handle that. Since most guitar chords are "power chords" (root+5th) in that genre, you can set up the a synth to play both the root and a 5th up, and feed it just the root note. In other words, one note in gives you that power chord out.

Another way to handle it is to build your "guitar part" string by string. Track one would be the E string, track two the A string, etc. Tedious, and requires a bit of a new approach to tracking, but after you edit it together and mix the six tracks, it'll sound exactly like a guitar. Mutt Lange did that with Def Leppard back in the day, and it sounds quite good by itself. The other thing it does for you is give you individual voices for each note in a chord, which can then be sent as MIDI data to a synth, yielding a polyphonic net result.
Like I said. I am mentally retarded when it comes to this sound engineering stuff so I don't mind being spoken to as such.

Yeah, the send thing sounds like a good idea, I'll try that and post results. As far as the power chord/monophonic issue I can just play the root note and then mess around to give it more body or wtvr.

Everything you're describing sounds super interesting reading it, but I've now got to actually get my hands dirty and try it.
Thanks for all the info, really appreciate it. Had no clue how to go about it, in my mind I figured just, record an amped gtr and like play some vst distorted synth and be really really thorough with the compressor and EQs. Possibly the drums give that NIN track a massive sound too, sometimes it's the setting around the gtrs, not the gtrs themselves that sound best.
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Old 10-09-2019, 06:41 PM   #34
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First, don't knock yourself like that. Everyone starts somewhere.

Second, the way I tend to think about reamping things is like this...

If we were going to send a signal out to a guitar amp to be recorded, would it make sense to send a signal we had recorded with an sm57 out to the amp?

Or, would you want a signal that's more like your guitar/amp chain(a direct signal from the pickup)?


Last, I wouldn't really discount how much of the NIN guitar sound might have been direct guitars(no cabinet). Some of that "More Dirty"/"More Clean" sound you mentioned may very well be direct sounds. It is like "Day" to a cabinet sim's "Night".
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