Old 08-14-2011, 12:29 PM   #1
Sound asleep
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Default pan width on mono tracks

i used to use a plugin that came with sonar that was for designing stereo field. forget what it was called but i loved it. it had a mode you could activate that would simulate having stereo, it was more than just the haas effect, not sure exactly how it works but it would let me control width of signal. this plugin also had an option to choose to delay the left or right channel in order to get a haas effect. I think it just doubled the mono track maybe without actually doubling the track if you know what i mean. kind of doubled it for the purposes of functioning the plugin but in other respects it was mono. or maybe i just switched the track to stereo and kept a mono signal? i forget, but is there something like this i could do with reaper 4 that would basically just allow me to use the pan width feature on mono tracks?

for me, i always record in mono, but i also always want to control pan width. what can i do?
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Old 08-14-2011, 12:37 PM   #2
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Use the free VST MDA Stereo on "comb" mode.
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Old 08-14-2011, 04:34 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound asleep View Post

for me, i always record in mono, but i also always want to control pan width. what can i do?
There's various JS plug-ins you can use (search the FX browser for JS stereo) but have you considered other methods which might give you more control.

One easy one is simply to duplicate the tracks and add a few ms delay (maybe as low as 7 ms) to one of the tracks and pan them differently.

Or (my preferred method) Experimenting with channel splitting and remixing opens endless opportunities.
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:59 PM   #4
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Chanmix2 is my friend and could be yours too
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Old 08-15-2011, 12:57 PM   #5
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More options in this thread:

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=84059
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Old 08-15-2011, 02:01 PM   #6
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ok, so i have a few questions then. why is it that a mono recording can't have it's width controlled? assuming it's not a computer thing, or a technical thing. but theoretically, can it be done? what's happening to the sound when we're widening or narrowing the pan field?

can i turn a track into a stereo track and duplicate a mono file exactly and then use the pan width controls?

is pan width an illusion you can get with stereo recordings?

I always thought that you could put vocals center and thin out the width so as to leave room on the outside for other stuff.

is this not so?

is a mono recording on center like a 100% thin pan? or like a 100% wide pan? i always thought the latter, but i don't see how making the track stereo can allow me a thinner width.
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Old 08-15-2011, 02:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholas View Post
There's various JS plug-ins you can use (search the FX browser for JS stereo) but have you considered other methods which might give you more control.

One easy one is simply to duplicate the tracks and add a few ms delay (maybe as low as 7 ms) to one of the tracks and pan them differently.

Or (my preferred method) Experimenting with channel splitting and remixing opens endless opportunities.
i like the js effect idea. but i don't get it how duplicating tracks and using their own separate pans can give me the freedom of controlling the width of a sound.



i wish i could draw a diagram, i saw it in a book, but really i don't want a stereo image. i don't want stereo at all. what i want is to keep my mono signal, but choose how wide it is. so i could have it centered, but take a very narrow field in the stereo channels, or have it completely wide or whatever. for some reason it seems as though mono signals can't do this, which i don't get yet, but splitting and all this seems like alot. really the result i was hoping for was to be able to have this sort of control even though i am recording in mono.

is there a way to have reaper accept a mono signal and record it as stereo with a duplicate image?

really i want it to work this way by default, i want to control stereo pan and width by default. so ideally i could setup my project and new tracks and whatnot, to all come saved in the format i need to be able to get the stereo pan width feature, but i have to record in mono.

can this be done you think somehow?
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Old 08-15-2011, 03:13 PM   #8
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A mono sound has no width.
It is a point source like the mic that recorded it.

It can be shown in Reaper as a single wave or it can be doubled (seem as 2 waves, a right and a left) but the doubling is of the exact same sound.

Since it is the same sound in both speakers it will sound like a point in space.
You can use panning to move it to other points in space, but it will still be a point.

If the sound is recorded with 2 microphones, then you have stereo.
There will be a different sound in the right and a different sound in the left.
Because of the different sounds, when they are hard panned left and right, as they will be in a stereo file, they give a wide sound that covers the entire sound stage.
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Old 08-15-2011, 03:44 PM   #9
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Default Stereo width plug in

Try the JS stereo width plugin. Bring both the middle and WIDE parameters down all the way then just use the WIDE parameter and you will have a "widened" signal. What is happening is that phase is being introduced into the signal (essentially it is a copy but out of phase and panned had left right). I'm not going to get into it but that is what's going on. If you have Waves you can also use the CENTER plug in.
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Old 08-15-2011, 08:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAPT View Post
A mono sound has no width.
It is a point source like the mic that recorded it.

It can be shown in Reaper as a single wave or it can be doubled (seem as 2 waves, a right and a left) but the doubling is of the exact same sound.

Since it is the same sound in both speakers it will sound like a point in space.
You can use panning to move it to other points in space, but it will still be a point.

If the sound is recorded with 2 microphones, then you have stereo.
There will be a different sound in the right and a different sound in the left.
Because of the different sounds, when they are hard panned left and right, as they will be in a stereo file, they give a wide sound that covers the entire sound stage.
ok, so lets say i have a true stereo recording what happens when i center them both and then widen or narrow the width? what happens if i pan hard left and then narrow and widen? a centered pan on mono plays one sound even volume in both ears right? and a stereo one, i guess plays each stereo in it's own ear at even volume. so is pan width just two pans on two tracks controlled with one knob, wider being they are panned hard left, and narrower they are more on top of each other, with a full narrow as though you rendered two stereo channels into one mono one? it doesn't sound like that to me, but if it's not that, i dont get it.
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Old 08-15-2011, 08:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mabarrie View Post
Try the JS stereo width plugin. Bring both the middle and WIDE parameters down all the way then just use the WIDE parameter and you will have a "widened" signal. What is happening is that phase is being introduced into the signal (essentially it is a copy but out of phase and panned had left right). I'm not going to get into it but that is what's going on. If you have Waves you can also use the CENTER plug in.
Peace out
thanks ill check that out. i wish my tracks could come with this built in as standard. an on/off button with a right click menu if you want to change how your delays are set. all i want for christmas is that.
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Old 08-15-2011, 08:33 PM   #12
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Let's look at a true stereo recording of an instrument.
One instrument, 2 mics. One sound panned full left and the other full right.

That would be what you would import into Reaper if you, for instance, bought a stereo sample.

Reaper has 2 ways to pan in version 4, and one way in version 3.

In version 3 there is a balance control that lowers or raises the volume in each channel. Well, actually it just lowers the volume in one. If you pan towards the left you are really just lowering the volume on the right.
Lower the right all the way and you only hear the left and it will be in to left ear.
Less, extreme, you can lower the volume a bit on the right and the sound will start to move to the left. It will still be a wide stereo sound (fully left to right), but because the right side is lower the weight of the sound will shift.

In Reaper 4 there is also a way to pan each of the 2 channel.
If you move them both to the center you will now have a mono sound pinpointed in the center. Zero width.

If you pan the left channel hard left and the right channel to the center then you will have a narrower stereo sound that goes from the left to the center.
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