Old 10-01-2019, 05:18 PM   #5081
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poetnprophet View Post

Could it be possible to just show the child tracks to the left of the folder, but keep the same order, for this particular case?
I think that's what Geoff's suggesting when he says "such that the rightmost Child Track was just to the left of the Pinned Folder Track..."

So the order of the child tracks is still the same, left to right, but now they're on the LHS of the folder instead of the RHS.

The child track that would have been next to the Folder Track if they were displayed on the RHS, is now the farthest away.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:23 PM   #5082
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Just tried the new build on Windows. Learn Window is vastly improved No crashes so far.

Reaper action assignments now showing up, as are FX mappings (no sign of the FX Alias though)

Regarding the size of the window, the height is fine but maybe make it a bit wider to accomodate those long VST names etc.

Can ToggleLearnMode come back now?

Last edited by MixMonkey; 10-02-2019 at 05:51 AM. Reason: error in CSI statement
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:38 PM   #5083
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
I think that's what Geoff's suggesting when he says "such that the rightmost Child Track was just to the left of the Pinned Folder Track..."

So the order of the child tracks is still the same, left to right, but now they're on the LHS of the folder instead of the RHS.

The child track that would have been next to the Folder Track if they were displayed on the RHS, is now the farthest away.
Yes, exactly.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:41 PM   #5084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Just tried the new build on Windows. Learn Window is vastly improved No crashes so far.
Excellent, that makes you and @nofish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Reaper action assignments now showing up, as are FX mappings (no sign of the FX Alias though)
Yup, just fixed that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Regarding the size of the window, the height is fine but maybe make it a bit wider to accomodate those long VST names etc.
And yet others are saying they would like it smaller

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Can ToggleLearnWindow come back now?
Oh alright
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Old 10-01-2019, 06:07 PM   #5085
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Excellent, that makes you and @nofish
Great work Geoff! You've pulled it right back
Quote:
And yet others are saying they would like it smaller
I'm kinda ambivalent about the height. Because it automatically scrolls to what ever you select, you don't really need to see great long lists of stuff, but I'd definitely go for wider so names don't get cut off.

Just a thought, has anyone tried it on Mac to see if it still works?
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Old 10-01-2019, 06:20 PM   #5086
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New build is up.

Zone Aliases now display and are editable.

ToggleLearnMode is back.
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Old 10-01-2019, 06:23 PM   #5087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
I'm kinda ambivalent about the height. Because it automatically scrolls to what ever you select, you don't really need to see great long lists of stuff, but I'd definitely go for wider so names don't get cut off.
Yeah, I hear ya', let's leave it for now and play with it after eveyone's had a go.

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Just a thought, has anyone tried it on Mac to see if it still works?
I develop on Mac, so it's always tested there first.
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Old 10-01-2019, 06:39 PM   #5088
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Quote:
I develop on Mac, so it's always tested there first.
Cool

Modifiers seem messed up now. Goes into latch mode with any press (long or short) and then CSI locks up. Also, on the subject of modifiers, unless I include the definitions in the C4 Buttons Zone they don't work from the C4 (already defined in MCU.zon)
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Old 10-01-2019, 07:15 PM   #5089
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Cool

Modifiers seem messed up now. Goes into latch mode with any press (long or short) and then CSI locks up. Also, on the subject of modifiers, unless I include the definitions in the C4 Buttons Zone they don't work from the C4 (already defined in MCU.zon)
Yup, now that Learn Mode is working (hopefully), modifiers are next up.
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Old 10-01-2019, 07:40 PM   #5090
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Yes, exactly.
see, this is why I just leave you all alone...this stuff is really complicated but you all know what you're doing so i'll shut lol
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Old 10-01-2019, 08:23 PM   #5091
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Any thoughts? Could there be something screwy going on between when CSI logs it to the console and when it passes it to the Action? Or is it not treating it correctly as a 14bit value?
Just tested this further using the original action I was trying to use (992 : Transport: Scrub/jog) instead of my script, and I see the same behaviour (without the log messages obv). Bound to the control outside CSI it works fine. Bound to the control inside CSI it always scrolls to the same point.

Geoff is it possible there's some data type mismatch in here?
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Old 10-01-2019, 11:29 PM   #5092
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Default learn mode too high

OSC is coming back !!
learn seems to be good. so the window is too high for my laptop and good for tower PC : i can't see the lower side (new, save, close buttons are hidden).
So i continue to explore CSI
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Old 10-02-2019, 03:32 AM   #5093
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Originally Posted by MalcolmG View Post
Just tested this further using the original action I was trying to use (992 : Transport: Scrub/jog) instead of my script, and I see the same behaviour (without the log messages obv). Bound to the control outside CSI it works fine. Bound to the control inside CSI it always scrolls to the same point.

Geoff is it possible there's some data type mismatch in here?
Sorry, been real busy with Learn Mode

Will look into this after modifiers are working.
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Old 10-02-2019, 03:33 AM   #5094
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Originally Posted by fabguitar69 View Post
OSC is coming back !!
learn seems to be good. so the window is too high for my laptop and good for tower PC : i can't see the lower side (new, save, close buttons are hidden).
So i continue to explore CSI
Cool, just needed one more vote -- thanks to you and @MixMonkey, next build will have a new improved UI
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:22 AM   #5095
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Cool, just needed one more vote -- thanks to you and @MixMonkey, next build will have a new improved UI

I think, as MixMonkey already said, as the windows scroll to highlight the links there really isn't a need for such huge length/height.
I my opinion a rejig of other windows to allow better display of long named vst would be a big improvement.


PS. NO CRASHES HERE EVEN WITH Q3

Last edited by Freex; 10-02-2019 at 05:00 AM.
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Old 10-02-2019, 05:26 AM   #5096
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Originally Posted by Freex View Post
I think, as MixMonkey already said, as the windows scroll to highlight the links there really isn't a need for such huge length/height.
I my opinion a rejig of other windows to allow better display of long named vst would be a big improvement.


PS. NO CRASHES HERE EVEN WITH Q3
Great news !!
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Old 10-02-2019, 05:27 AM   #5097
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New build is up.

Fix for latching bug.

New, hopefully improved, Learn Mode Window.
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Old 10-02-2019, 06:59 AM   #5098
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Latching seems to be working as expected.

what is the last window at the top (right) of learmode for, it never gets filled here?

I assume the bottom right is for included zones.
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Old 10-02-2019, 07:03 AM   #5099
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Default bravo !!

new UI is perfect. i see everything !!
i see effect param when the Zone is already created and touch a knob.
i see also param when i create new file.
i can not move the parameters in learn mode
congrat what a work !!
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Old 10-02-2019, 07:22 AM   #5100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freex View Post
Latching seems to be working as expected.
Great !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freex View Post
what is the last window at the top (right) of learmode for, it never gets filled here?
From left to right it's:

Modifiers -- Widget name -- Action name -- parameter -- alias

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freex View Post
I assume the bottom right is for included zones.
Yes, i was hoping the buttons would give it away
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Old 10-02-2019, 07:24 AM   #5101
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Originally Posted by fabguitar69 View Post
new UI is perfect. i see everything !!
i see effect param when the Zone is already created and touch a knob.
i see also param when i create new file.
i can not move the parameters in learn mode
congrat what a work !!
Great, don't know quite what you mean when you say "i can not move the parameters in learn mode", please explain further.
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Old 10-02-2019, 07:46 AM   #5102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post


From left to right it's:

Modifiers -- Widget name -- Action name -- parameter -- alias
I don't think it's picking everything up, as you can see in my screen shot, I have
Widget=RoataryA1
Action Name=FXParam
Parameter=2
Alias=

I'm guessing it's because the alias is on the UpperDisplay

So I guess that will remain blank as I can't "tap" on the display to get it to show it's Alias LOL.

Will we be able to "in the future" be able to select a Widget with a mouse click and Learn mode show it's links?

Quote:

Yes, i was hoping the buttons would give it away
You hoped correctly LOL.
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Old 10-02-2019, 07:58 AM   #5103
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Originally Posted by Freex View Post
I don't think it's picking everything up, as you can see in my screen shot, I have
Widget=RoataryA1
Action Name=FXParam
Parameter=2
Alias=

I'm guessing it's because the alias is on the UpperDisplay

So I guess that will remain blank as I can't "tap" on the display to get it to show it's Alias LOL.
Yeah, I just added alias last evening, obviously I was working way too late, will sort out the bugs bit by bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freex View Post
Will we be able to "in the future" be able to select a Widget with a mouse click and Learn mode show it's links?
That's the plan...
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:01 AM   #5104
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Testing the release of today.

Using a bunch of midi knobs that send out relative 3F/41h messages.

Here's the MST and ZON file.
Code:
Widget Rotary1
    Encoder    b0 00 7f
    FB_Encoder b0 00 7f
WidgetEnd
Widget EncButton1
    Press      91 00 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget Rotary2
    Encoder    b0 01 7f
    FB_Encoder b0 01 7f
WidgetEnd
Widget EncButton2
    Press      91 01 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget Rotary3
    Encoder    b0 02 7f
    FB_Encoder b0 02 7f
WidgetEnd
Widget EncButton3
    Press      91 02 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget Rotary4
    Encoder    b0 03 7f
    FB_Encoder b0 03 7f
WidgetEnd
Widget EncButton4
    Press      91 03 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget Rotary5
    Encoder    b0 04 7f
    FB_Encoder b0 04 7f
WidgetEnd
Widget EncButton5
    Press      91 04 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget Rotary6
    Encoder    b0 05 7f
    FB_Encoder b0 05 7f
WidgetEnd
Widget EncButton6
    Press      91 05 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget Rotary7
    Encoder    b0 06 7f
    FB_Encoder b0 06 7f
WidgetEnd
Widget EncButton7
    Press      91 06 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget Rotary8
    Encoder    b0 07 7f
    FB_Encoder b0 07 7f
WidgetEnd
Widget EncButton8
    Press      91 07 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget Rotary9
    Encoder    b0 08 7f
    FB_Encoder b0 08 7f
WidgetEnd
Widget EncButton9
    Press      91 08 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget Rotary10
    Encoder    b0 09 7f
    FB_Encoder b0 09 7f
WidgetEnd
Widget EncButton10
    Press      91 09 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget Rotary11
    Encoder    b0 0a 7f
    FB_Encoder b0 0a 7f
WidgetEnd
Widget EncButton11
    Press      91 0a 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget Rotary12
    Encoder    b0 0b 7f
    FB_Encoder b0 0b 7f
WidgetEnd
Widget EncButton12
    Press      91 0b 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget Rotary13
    Encoder    b0 0c 7f
    FB_Encoder b0 0c 7f
WidgetEnd
Widget EncButton13
    Press      91 0c 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget Rotary14
    Encoder    b0 0d 7f
    FB_Encoder b0 0d 7f
WidgetEnd
Widget EncButton14
    Press      91 0d 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget Rotary15
    Encoder    b0 0e 7f
    FB_Encoder b0 0e 7f
WidgetEnd
Widget EncButton15
    Press      91 0e 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget Rotary16
    Encoder    b0 0f 7f
    FB_Encoder b0 0f 7f
WidgetEnd
Widget EncButton16
    Press      91 0f 7f
WidgetEnd
Code:
Zone Home
    OnTrackSelection MapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets
    IncludedZones
        Send|1-8
    IncludedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd

Zone Send|1-8
    SelectedTrackNavigator
    EncButton| TrackSendMute
    Rotary|  TrackSendVolume
ZoneEnd
Actions triggered by the knob presses that send note ON and OFF messages work fine as triggers, so the Send Mute is ok. The relative control messages however are interpreted badly.

If I turn right, the volume of the send goes down, though it does so in a good average speed. If I turn the knob left, the volume instantly jumps to maximum. So that's a miss right now. Thus, the knobs are working the wrong way around and not working properly at all in one direction :\ .


The send volume control from the Faderport16 works great now. Send Mutes work as well.


Modifiers, they didn't work well this morning with the previous release. CSI stopped working after using a couple of MODIFIER+button combos.


In particular it stopped working after using a modifier + button to trigger a second type Reaper action. In this case it was the ARM all tracks command.

The MST and ZON files I'm constructing are for the Studio One mode of course, so I'm keeping those files by a different name than just FP16.*.


Goeff, would you like the current files now ? I'm still editing the ZON file in particular. As soon as the modifiers are fixed, we could think about which to use for some of the functions.


Some small problems for workflows, concerning the Faderport16.

Send Volume and Mute work great, but only work if a single track is selected. As soon as more than one is selected, the faders control the track volume again.

Perhaps I'm overlooking something ?
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:11 AM   #5105
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Great, don't know quite what you mean when you say "i can not move the parameters in learn mode", please explain further.
i first select one widget : rotaryA1 by example and i select effect parameter in action window
i add this to a zone who already exist VST: ReaEQ and when i move the RotaryA1 the parameter doesn't change
Voila !!
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:58 AM   #5106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabguitar69 View Post
i first select one widget : rotaryA1 by example and i select effect parameter in action window
i add this to a zone who already exist VST: ReaEQ and when i move the RotaryA1 the parameter doesn't change
Voila !!
Ahh, no you don't select a Widget from the list, you turn/switch it on the surface -- that causes the selection and sets up conditions for adding an Action.

Then you can select an Action and map it.

Hmmm... maybe we should disallow selection by users in the Widget List...

Thanks for testing !!
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:07 AM   #5107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
Testing the release of today.

Using a bunch of midi knobs that send out relative 3F/41h messages.

Actions triggered by the knob presses that send note ON and OFF messages work fine as triggers, so the Send Mute is ok. The relative control messages however are interpreted badly.

If I turn right, the volume of the send goes down, though it does so in a good average speed. If I turn the knob left, the volume instantly jumps to maximum. So that's a miss right now. Thus, the knobs are working the wrong way around and not working properly at all in one direction :\ .
Thanks for testing !!

Ok, looks like I need to come up a special Midi Widget for these, noted and on the to-do stack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
Modifiers, they didn't work well this morning with the previous release. CSI stopped working after using a couple of MODIFIER+button combos.


In particular it stopped working after using a modifier + button to trigger a second type Reaper action. In this case it was the ARM all tracks command.
Modifiers are working on the Home Zone in the latest build.

There is a bug that prevents modifiers from behaving properly in sub Zones -- working on it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
The MST and ZON files I'm constructing are for the Studio One mode of course, so I'm keeping those files by a different name than just FP16.*.
Maybe something like FP16StudioOneMode.mst and FP16StudioOneMode for the folder?


Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
Geoff, would you like the current files now ? I'm still editing the ZON file in particular. As soon as the modifiers are fixed, we could think about which to use for some of the functions.
Yes, when you are happy and get everything working, would love to include it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
Send Volume and Mute work great, but only work if a single track is selected. As soon as more than one is selected, the faders control the track volume again.

Perhaps I'm overlooking something ?
That's right, all of the Sends, FX, etc., work from the notion of a single Selected Track or a Focused FX.

That is a fundamental part of the design.

What would you like to do that you cannot ?
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Last edited by Geoff Waddington; 10-02-2019 at 09:16 AM.
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:18 AM   #5108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Ahh, no you don't select a Widget from the list, you turn/switch it on the surface -- that causes the selection and sets up conditions for adding an Action.

Then you can select an Action and map it.

Hmmm... maybe we should disallow selection by users in the Widget List...

Thanks for testing !!
I think that my question of "in the Future" needs to come more sooner rather than later.

I reckon more users will "click and select" (as Fabguitar69 tried) than "twist and turn" (as is the current procedure)

It would also allow for "away from surface" FXZone writing like MixMonkeys Configurator does for C4 users.

Maybe try and slide that one in on the top of the to-do list LOL. (it must be getting pretty high now, with all the additional testers and requests).

Liking the new UI btw, although I keep getting caught out by the reversal of the Close window button. LOL


Also on the earlier matter of the alias, if "click and select" were viable, then the alias window would come back into play.

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Old 10-02-2019, 09:56 AM   #5109
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That's right, all of the Sends, FX, etc., work from the notion of a single Selected Track or a Focused FX.

That is a fundamental part of the design.
Just to clarify, so it isn't possible with CSI to 'hardwire' sends and FX parameters regardless of track selection / focused FX?
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Old 10-02-2019, 10:02 AM   #5110
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I reckon more users will "click and select" (as Fabguitar69 tried) than "twist and turn" (as is the current procedure)
I concur. Once people grasp the FX mapping concept, they'll want to sit down and get all their fx mapped.

It will be more convenient if they have the option to do this away from the surfaces.
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Old 10-02-2019, 10:09 AM   #5111
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Thanks for testing !!

Ok, looks like I need to come up a special Midi Widget for these, noted and on the to-do stack.



Modifiers are working on the Home Zone in the latest build.

There is a bug that prevents modifiers from behaving properly in sub Zones -- working on it...



Maybe something like FP16StudioOneMode.mst and FP16StudioOneMode for the folder?




Yes, when you are happy and get everything working, would love to include it.
I'll get it in a good state and send along a nice ZIP with all the proper directory setups when modifiers are fixed up. No rush. It's already better than the standard MCU driver for my Faderport16. It can do fader-driven send riding .

Quote:
That's right, all of the Sends, FX, etc., work from the notion of a single Selected Track or a Focused FX.

That is a fundamental part of the design.

What would you like to do that you cannot ?
I have a set of absolute and relative controls setup on knobs for send volumes because sometimes I want to change the volume of Send X on multiple tracks at once. In my case it's most often dialogue reverb sends. Set a basic state with an absolute or relative control and off you go.

With faders the control of one parameter on multiple tracks is preferred to be absolute, so I generally do need to have it work on all selected tracks. Else I'll be using those knobs for that particular purpose. It's already great to have the faders run the send volumes of one track of course.
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Old 10-02-2019, 10:26 AM   #5112
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Just to clarify, so it isn't possible with CSI to 'hardwire' sends and FX parameters regardless of track selection / focused FX?
I miscommunicated bass ackwardly there...

Should have said a "part of the fundamental design" -- meaning out-of-the-box ready now.

SelectedTrackNavigator and FocusedFXNavigator are available now.

We can and will add more Navigators -- yours is a great idea -- consider it added !!

Navigator in CSI really means context -- I've got a bunch of Widgets -- which track and index am I on again ?

Or what am I hardwired to ?

Or... etc.

the architecture supports the concept -- we just have to think of a good design...
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Old 10-02-2019, 10:27 AM   #5113
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I'll get it in a good state and send along a nice ZIP with all the proper directory setups when modifiers are fixed up. No rush. It's already better than the standard MCU driver for my Faderport16. It can do fader-driven send riding .
Cool, no worries.

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I have a set of absolute and relative controls setup on knobs for send volumes because sometimes I want to change the volume of Send X on multiple tracks at once. In my case it's most often dialogue reverb sends. Set a basic state with an absolute or relative control and off you go.

With faders the control of one parameter on multiple tracks is preferred to be absolute, so I generally do need to have it work on all selected tracks. Else I'll be using those knobs for that particular purpose. It's already great to have the faders run the send volumes of one track of course.
Thanks, another great Navigator idea -- see previous post.
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Old 10-02-2019, 10:58 AM   #5114
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I concur. Once people grasp the FX mapping concept, they'll want to sit down and get all their fx mapped.

It will be more convenient if they have the option to do this away from the surfaces.
I’m going to play devil’s advocate here and push back.

Consider the following:

This is the Learn Mode Window.

Based on the common DAW usage of the term “Learn Mode”, realtime is implied.

As CSI becomes more sophisticated, this will be the spot where you tune realtime “feel” parameters like rotary acceleration, etc.

This is really just a realtime .zon editor, when you strip all the glitter off.

It has nothing to do with the .mst/.ost files, other than to simply get the Widget names.

Realtime implies slim/trim/efficient/uncluttered — you want to A/B quickly when making decisions, especially “feel” ones.

There are already other ways to edit .zon files — simple text editor — your excellent spreadsheet — and perhaps more to come.

OK, so the Learn Mode Window will be the place to edit .zon files in realtime.

That implies you have a surface or emulator available, you may want to check more than strictly mapping — you might want to check realtime performance, etc.

Learn Mode Window assumes accurate and sufficient .mst/.ost files.

Although there are Monitoring options to help generate .mst/.ost files, this is a convenience feature and not part of the core Learn Mode Window functionality

I think you see it coming,,,,

Yup, I’m suggesting removing the Widget list altogether — would make for a MUCH cleaner UI.

OK, let er rip
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:25 PM   #5115
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Yup, I’m suggesting removing the Widget list altogether — would make for a MUCH cleaner UI.

OK, let er rip
Boo Hiss, done with this.

I'd lobby against removal as it does confirm that OST MST are in good shape, also removing them takes any option of adding or removing "away from surface" off the table.
Essentially cutting off a limb.

CSI has been from it's birth, a Swiss army knife for surface users and as such LearnMode should follow the same ethos, "You can do it..YOUR WAY"

Some users may choose to follow the path and "Twist and Turn" others may find it easier to "Script it", other will have awesome Configurators and some my want to "Click and Select" in LearnMode.
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Old 10-02-2019, 02:11 PM   #5116
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We can and will add more Navigators -- yours is a great idea -- consider it added !!
Top notch, thanks for considering!

To give you an idea why I asked:
I play keyboards in a band and do 'live' (i.e. realtime) Dub mixing.
For these scenarios it'd be quite essential to me that (random example) rotary 1 always controls filter cutoff of Synth x on track 1, rotary 2 always controls send 1 of track 2 and so on, independent of track selection / FX focus.
It's simply too slow and error prone (in my experience) in a in a live context having mappings changed dependent on track selection / FX focus.
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Old 10-02-2019, 02:37 PM   #5117
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I'd lobby against removal as it does confirm that OST MST are in good shape, also removing them takes any option of adding or removing "away from surface" off the table.
Essentially cutting off a limb.

CSI has been from it's birth, a Swiss army knife for surface users and as such LearnMode should follow the same ethos, "You can do it..YOUR WAY"

Some users may choose to follow the path and "Twist and Turn" others may find it easier to "Script it", other will have awesome Configurators and some my want to "Click and Select" in LearnMode.
Your points are simply indisputable, see next post
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Old 10-02-2019, 02:38 PM   #5118
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New build is up.

You can now Select a Widget from the list or simply turn a knob -- same result.
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Old 10-02-2019, 02:40 PM   #5119
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Top notch, thanks for considering!

To give you an idea why I asked:
I play keyboards in a band and do 'live' (i.e. realtime) Dub mixing.
For these scenarios it'd be quite essential to me that (random example) rotary 1 always controls filter cutoff of Synth x on track 1, rotary 2 always controls send 1 of track 2 and so on, independent of track selection / FX focus.
It's simply too slow and error prone (in my experience) in a in a live context having mappings changed dependent on track selection / FX focus.
Cool, although CSI was originally envisioned for console-like applications, I'm looking forward to seeing CSi used in different ways -- like you are.
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Old 10-02-2019, 03:54 PM   #5120
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Sorry, been real busy with Learn Mode

Will look into this after modifiers are working.

No worries, just wanted to capture as much info as I could while it was fresh. Thanks Geoff.
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