v4: SWS/S&M Extension

[EvilDragon]

Originally Posted by sws

S&M windows are themed, SWS windows aren't yet.

Right, that's what I'm asking

[Subz]

Originally Posted by sws

yet.

Yay!!

[Anton9]

Thank you so much for the new "Media file slot actions"..., so simple yet so amazingly useful I spent 6 hours yesterday playing around with just a couple of samples and these awesome actions. I was wondering if it would be possible for you to code some actions that would also stop the media when it detected a note off ? As far as I can tell REAPER actions can't be assigned to MIDI note offs.., so if you can't code it into the actions then we really need to get the devs to hopefully jump right on this. As a side note I would like the "Media file slot actions" to retain the current behavior as well as handle note offs even if it's an option in an .ini file that we have to setup, because both ways of triggering samples/files can be useful.

With just a few tweaks these "Media file slot actions" could literally turn REAPER into the most powerful sampler on the planet!!!

This part is for anyone reading this who wants to have some real FUN.
Get sws_2.1.0.17 or higher form http://code.google.com/p/sws-extension/downloads/list
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is a really simple example of what I spent most of the day doing with a single slot action and a couple of Track select actions. It may look like a lot to setup, but it's really not and once you start playin' around your mind will start buzzing with all kinds of other ideas/setups.

1. Create a custom action with these two actions 1st "Track:Select track 01" and 2nd "SWS/S&M: Play media file in selected tracks, slot 01" and assign a MIDI note as a trigger
2. Create another custom action with these two actions 1st "Track:Select track 02" and second "SWS/S&M: Play media file in selected tracks slot 01" that's right slot 01 not 02. and assign a different MIDI note as a trigger.
3. Now create two tracks and add different fx chains to each one.
4.Trigger the first MIDI note you set up in step 1 and you should get a dialog that asks if you want to select a file for this slot ? click yes and select your sample. Now because we're using the same sample slot for both triggers you won't have to assign the second one.
5. Now comes the FUN part..., go ahead and press the first note you assigned again and you should hear your sample play through track 1.., play the second note and you'll hear the same sample play through track 2 and because you setup different fx chains on each track you'll hear two different sounds(sort of an A & B type setup)
6. Now for some more FUN you can take the two custom actions you created and put them both into a third custom action and assign it to another MIDI note and now when you trigger it you'll hear your sample play through both tracks and FX chains

Now of course you could assign different samples to different slots if you like. You can even add a freeze action as the last action in the custom action and when you trigger the note your sample will be processed through the FX chain and be rendered in the lane The possibilities are really endless. If anyone comes up with some cool ideas using the "Media file slot actions" in conjunction with other actions please post your results. Also don't forget you can assign MIDI files instead of samples although I haven't tried this yet as I was having so much fun with just .wav files.

Have fun and remember to share any cool setups you come up with.

[Jeffos]

I'm looking for OSX beta testers (beta cycle action editor, etc..). Shoot me a PM if interested!

Originally Posted by Anton9

could literally turn REAPER the most powerful sampler on the planet!!!

Ha ha! Thanks for the very kind words!! I agree: fun stuff for sure! but to be honnest, since we are talking about actions, samples are triggered in an "asynchroneous" way, I mean the timing is not sample-accurate like it is with a VST plug.. Nothing I can do about that, REAPER's action system is like that, even when MIDI learned. Of course it can do the job in many contexts, but that's the assumption (see Issue 386 in the sws tracker +other use cases there too). BTW, a GUI for media file slots + other loop, toggle play & stop actions will be available in the next release..
also, yes, there are workarounds to learn things from note off messages (eg a js that remap those events -> MIDItoReaControlPath VST).

[Anton9]

Originally Posted by Jeffos

samples are triggered in an "asynchroneous" way, I mean the timing is not sample-accurate like it is with a VST plug.. Nothing I can do about that, REAPER's action system is like that, even when MIDI learned.

It's strange because when I execute one of the 'Play media slot' actions via MIDI input it executes with almost no latency, but if I execute it via marker action there is a huge latency. It would be cool if the Cockos guys could program some sort of pre-compile/look-ahead or offset function into marker actions.

Originally Posted by Jeffos

BTW, a GUI for media file slots + other loop, toggle play & stop actions will be available in the next release..

Cool.., thanks

Originally Posted by Jeffos

also, yes, there are workarounds to learn things from note off messages (eg a js that remap those events -> MIDItoReaControlPath VST).

totally forgot about remapping..., thank you again

[gwok]

these resource improvements, though great, are highlighting the lack of Drag and Drop on osx!



so far the media slots in the resources it working well. good stuff

[musicbynumbers]

Originally Posted by Anton9

It's strange because when I execute one of the 'Play media slot' actions via MIDI input it executes with almost no latency, but if I execute it via marker action there is a huge latency. It would be cool if the Cockos guys could program some sort of pre-compile/look-ahead or offset function into marker actions.



Cool.., thanks



totally forgot about remapping..., thank you again

I don't mean to spook you out but.. check the post count on this one too!

[Win Conway]

Originally Posted by Anton9

With just a few tweaks these "Media file slot actions" could literally turn REAPER into the most powerful sampler on the planet!!!

Not meaning t bust your bubble here at all but this is never going to happen VIA actions

I created an audio straight to timeline drum sampler set up a while back using the media bay (Now depreciated unfortunately) that SWS came up with
It is always hacky at best and the timing can get a bit wiffy as Jeffos has pointed out

The annoying thing is that the ball was very much in Cockos court with the project bay thing they created, could have been very very powerful allowing you to trigger audio files or MIDI files and so on straight to the timeline, Much like Ableton or Sonars Matrix or FLs new performance view
As far as i am concerned they really dropped the ball on that one massively and now it is left to ponder what could have been while using Jeffos actions

Just makes me wish that Cockos had somebody on board who actually produces and edits rather than just records

[Anton9]

Hey SWS/S&M team thank you for the v2.1.0 #18 update. Love the new additions to the "Play media file...,slot 'n'" actions. I however did discover a bug when using MIDI files and have opened issue #411 over at your site.

[ivansc]

The direct link to pre-release discussion is not working under google chrome.


every other link on here is fine.


What gives?

[Reaperto]

v2.1.0 #18 update

Resources view: two new slot types, Media files and Themes!
+Context menu: load theme, various "auto-fill slots" features, insert/add/clear/etc..
Added slot actions for themes:
+SWS/S&M: Open Resources window (Themes)
+SWS/S&M: Load theme, slot n - where 'n' is in [1; 4], cutomizable in the S&M.ini file (up to 99 slots)
+SWS/S&M: Load theme, prompt for slot
+SWS/S&M: Clear theme slot...

GREAT! Many thanks!

[dasombre]

now if we had syncable trigger-quantization and saveable mediaslot-sets i'd think i'm in a dream :-)

[TonE]

Originally Posted by dasombre

now if we had syncable trigger-quantization and saveable mediaslot-sets i'd think i'm in a dream :-)

For what are mediaslots good/useful?

[musicbynumbers]

Originally Posted by TonE

For what are mediaslots good/useful?

I'm using them for certain test tones and have assigned them to toolbar buttons so I can easily calibrate to K metering system

[TonE]

Originally Posted by gpunk_w

Not meaning t bust your bubble here at all but this is never going to happen VIA actions

Well, the only thing that matters are really JUST the available actions! Those are the atoms, from which you can build any molecules you want.

The more orthogonal and low level those actions are the better.

[TonE]

Originally Posted by Jeffos

samples are triggered in an "asynchroneous" way, I mean the timing is not sample-accurate like it is with a VST plug.. Nothing I can do about that, REAPER's action system is like that, even when MIDI learned.

If action firing could be grid-aligned, this could save all action sync problems. So you can trigger the action whenever you want, but it would be fired on the next grid point! You could set your grid to 1bar, half notes, quarter notes, 16th notes...

Or what you can do already now is triggering your actions via action markers, which would be then perfectly aligned to grids, if you want so.

[Win Conway]

Originally Posted by TonE

Well, the only thing that matters are really JUST the available actions! Those are the atoms, from which you can build any molecules you want.

The more orthogonal and low level those actions are the better.

Kind of
I love actions and macros, but they do have timing drawbacks

[BenK-msx]

Originally Posted by musicbynumbers

I'm using them for certain test tones and have assigned them to toolbar buttons so I can easily calibrate to K metering system

howdy - hmm so just as example - say for accesibility purposes i guess every action could be macro'd up with these new actions to trigger an specific audio clip? -

so user presses key/midi etc. for 'grid on' and [celebrity] voice booms out 'grids on'?
or 'delete' could trigger 'that was great lets do one more' for those lazy demo recording sessions...

reminded me of tedwood doing a sampler set up for remote descriptions/confirmations of actions when away from the screen, and when a couple of partially sighted folk have asked about features that could help them.
this is cool either way.

Q: would the 'sws: wait for next bar actions' help with the timing (musical timing at least) {edit: nope)or just add to the timing issue as they're not super precise, so that multiplied by imprecise media triggering may not be good.


edit: re timing i'm getting around ~344 ms delay - figured out using an action marker - seems consistant to within a half a dozen MS most of the time but does vary. just wondered why it was up in the ~.3 of a second delay?

top work sws guys btw.

[musicbynumbers]

LOL could work.

Another more obvious use that I nearly forgot is for radio stations and theatre use, you could even get the macro to select/find the correct channel before playing.

You can do a bit of this from the project bay but not the triggering from midi or toolbar buttons.

[BenK-msx]

ah indeed - playing about i just set up a little 'record' concoction so a little whistle sound plays back when recording starts, then a beep is played on record stop. (using cycle action editor)

thought something like it could be handy when recording with others (through 'phones) to reduce the inevitable
"are we recording?"
"we are recording now"
"no, we're not recording now"
and "sorry, stop, i forgot to hit record" conversations that go on.

works pretty nicely. could be done before of course, this just seems neater.

[musicbynumbers]

That's why I love reaper and sws

When other daws get stuck reaper macguyvers through!

[TonE]

Originally Posted by Anton9

With just a few tweaks these "Media file slot actions" could literally turn REAPER into the most powerful sampler on the planet!!!

Can you explain this a little further?

[TonE]

Originally Posted by mawi

Please make available the saved marker sets for all projects and not just for the current project only.

You can copy the marker set as text into the clipboard and save on your harddisk. Then the way back is also possible.

Placing markers based on the bar position would be great, however I did not test this myself, just from reading above.

[TonE]

Originally Posted by gpunk_w

I love actions and macros, but they do have timing drawbacks

Can you give one example, I want to test if the same problem occurs also when triggering actions via AutoHotkey?

[Win Conway]

I don't have to give an example, Actions have latency, simple as that
Has been tested and stated by the devs
Actions are what they are, and that is not a performance tool
So any ideas of an uber sampler or whatever are just not going to happen

Believe me i even created that sampler using actions and a workaround to get realtime performance and it is such a pita to set up and uses so many tracks and plugins and blah blah blah, just use a sampler VST hahahaha

[Anton9]

v2.1.0 #20 is out.., get it while it's hot!

Thanks for the fixes, I really like the Auto-save for media slots and configurable directory. The text filter rocks too.

Small request:
The ability for files in media slots to obey the state of this setting "Preserve pitch in audio items when changing master playrate" found in the right click menu of the Playback Rate control.
What would be really cool is if it could be done on a per slot basis, perhaps a tick box for each slot?

In the whatsnew.txt for this release what does +Custom resource types !? mean?

[Anton9]

Ok guys here are a few other things you can do with the totally kick ass media file slot actions. I'm not posting a step by step this time, but if any of you are interested perhaps I can be persuaded to post a tutorial.

Examp. #1: In combination with Cycle actions you can assign multiple media files to a single MIDI note so when you play the note the first time file 1 will play, hit the same note again and file 2 will play. You can set them up as single-shot or looped. You can use mixed media.., file 1 could be a .wav file and file 2 could be a .mid file (any media type REAPER supports is available for use)

Examp. #2: (Warning this one kicks major booty !!!)
In combination with Padre's LFO Generator and Cycle actions you can set up trigger-able automations that you can assign to plug in parameters on the fly. So for example you could create an LFO with a Freq. of 1/1, save it as a .mid file then create another LFO with a Freq of 1/2 and save it as a .mid file.., then assign each to a media slot and then create a Cycle action with the corresponding slot actions. And BAM!!! when you execute the Cycle action the first time you get LFO-1, execute again and you get LFO-2.., of course they can be single-shot or looped as well.
Note: In the above example there are a couple of other steps you have to do to set it up just right.., so like I said if anyone's interested in a proper tutorial just let me know.

Examp. #3: With just a few clicks you could split an in project file into multiple slices and with a click of the Auto-save button in the Resources window each slice will be assigned a slot and each slot can be assigned to a MIDI note or CC.

Examp. #4: You could fill the media slots automatically from a folder full of files.

The thing that also makes these actions so powerful is that they are executed/played through the selected track(s).., so you could set up multiple tracks with different FX chains and execute/play the action in one track after the other or multiple tracks selected at once.

Ecamp. #5: You can use these actions to set up a play-list for live performance or aid in arranging.

There really are so many things that can be done with these actions.., I could literally author an entire DVD full of tutorials.

Note: These actions execute with very little latency when using external MIDI gear as a trigger..., but if you assign them to internal MIDI or to the time line via action markers the timing can be all screwy. Maybe if enough of us get together we could persuade Cockos to tighten this up for us?

There really is a HUGH amount of potential here so I hope that Cockos can take notice and come up with a solution to the timing issue.

[TonE]

Thanks Anton9 for your explanations and examples.

[Jeffos]

schwa about action timing..

Originally Posted by schwa

Actions do have a slight latency, probably on the order of say 5-10 ms. Depending on what the action is meant to do, this could be immaterial. The bigger issue is not so much latency as sync.

If you are triggering things live without needing to sync to anything else, actions might work fine for you, a few ms of latency is not going to be audible as a delay if you are just jumping from marker to marker duing playback. But the action needs to sync with anything -- for example if you are trying to use actions to do looper-style recording, like punching in a bar and looping it -- it won't work right. In other words the action should execute with only a few ms of delay after when you press the button, but whatever the action is trying to affect might be buffered or latent by varying amounts of time that are much greater than a few ms.

We may add some special actions to do specific things like start/stop recording at the next measure, marker, etc. If the sync is designed into the implementation of the specific action, it will work right.

^^ the most important thing here is the first sentence: triggering an action is a bit like writing a letter "Dear REAPER, I would like to do that". So, if I had big bollocks, I would slightly disagree with schwa: even if the sync is designed in the action, it won't always work because a letter "Dear REAPER, I would like to do that on sync at the next measure" can be sent before but received/processed after the next measure.
Not sure it is clear.. Other example: I didn't try but I'd bet 5 euros that these "start/stop recording at the next measure" actions fail if they are triggered 5ms before the next measure. It is not a smartass/corner-case remark: if you try to achieve live looping stuff for example, 5ms around the "next measure" is the main case (assuming you're human).

To me, it is not possible to achieve a fully reliable sync with actions (or we'd need a brand new kind of "actions"). Not to forget live performance stuff, where transport is stopped and where you don't have the time to write letters. The only way I found to achieve such things is with fx plugs (i.e. sample-accurate MIDI stream that trigger some hand coded stuff).

Originally Posted by BenK-msx

thought something like it could be handy when recording with others (through 'phones) to reduce the inevitable
"are we recording?"
"we are recording now"
"no, we're not recording now"
and "sorry, stop, i forgot to hit record" conversations that go on.

ha! haha! You give me an idea: I have to bind an action that will throw a "Stop it right now!". So, when we are all playing and the guitarist starts another solo, I'll just have to hit a pad to ping him: no more excuses with "headphones! I didn't hear!" and, of course, the sample will be played on his recording track so that I'm sure his "solo" will be ruined too )

Some other media file slot use-cases: jingles, bulk of SysEx to some MIDI hardware with a key stroke, etc.. But there are also various "Add media file slot" actions (and not only play/loop actions!) : so if you have some samples/MIDI patterns you often use, you can bind them to key strokes. Quantizing drums would be a crime but I authorize myself to cheat about cymbals from time to time: I have bound some crash/splah/etc.. cymbals to "SWS/S&M: Add media file to current track" (<- at current possiton).

Originally Posted by Anton9

In the whatsnew.txt for this release what does +Custom resource types !? mean?

It's a "hidden" feature because it is not very useful (but it was dead easy to add, so..). It is for Windows OS only, it just provides drag-drop facilities - but no additionnal slot actions.
In the S&M.ini file, in the section "RESOURCE_VIEW" you can now define custom resource types. The format is: CustomSlotTypen="resource_relative_path,text used in GUI and messages,file_extension". Example:
1) Quit REAPER
2) Make a backup of your S&M.ini file (especially if you just want to have a look: custom slot files will be saved there too)
2) In the S&M.ini file, add for example:

[RESOURCE_VIEW]
CustomSlotType1="Data\Track_icons,track icon,png"
CustomSlotType2="Configurations,config,ReaperConfigZip"

Result: in the S&M Resource view, you now have 2 new resource types "Track icons" and "Configs" :

[drew]

Here's to having those timing critical marker actions such as record toggle and jumping to other markers made an integral part of REAPER. For starters a a marker telling playback to jump to another point requires a parameter with the destination marker number or measure number, which was not possible with marker actions - lovely though they are for other things!

[BenK-msx]

so drag n drop configs and images or whatever you like and/or load them via actions?? (ok maybe not that if i read correctly)





thanking u Jeffos.

maybe you could be even more devious and use a clip of digital distortion and error beeps to stop bad solos! "oh sorry some technical issue here, this buggy software..."

am sure when devs see the potential here they might just tighten things up timing wise. maybe.

[BenK-msx]

i've had an idea for mr Jeffos

we can now trigger stuff: audio/midi, etc with actions. amazing.

but could it be possible to also trigger the 'display' of an image from a slot, for example in its own size adjustable/dockable window (or video window)?
maybe with a duration setting etc?


images could then be also associated with actions (as we can now with sounds/midi), so when user presses/uses a controller button for e.g macro 'put everything in a folder' a little user chosen image would appear giving instant feedback on what was just triggered.

I'd like it particularly as i have a controller with lots of buttons and forget what buttons i've mapped to where.

so configurable visual feedback on triggered actions...

thanks for any consideration...

it also could be used for interactive slideshow type situations, e.g singer hits a foot button and says
"this is when the bassist fell over at the last gig" and points to the big screen...


EDIT2: should be simple really - just allow png's & jpgs etc. to be loaded into the 'media item' slots, then when triggered they should automatically preview in the video window like image files added to the arrange view do already, we'd just need to set preview 'length' and it'll be great although the 'stop playing media item' actions may be enough to control dsiplay length.

[Anton9]

The thing that bothers me about action timing is that the inaccuracy can vary on each execution. If it where a measurable amount of latency that did not vary within a given set of actions it would be easy to compensate for. You would just run your action once to find the amount of latency then set the action marker or MIDI trigger event accordingly. The way it is now even a simple action with only one command can not be predicted.

Here is an example of how wonky the timing of REAPER's execution of actions can be.

This was just an experiment to try and measure the latency of actions.
I set up one of the media slot actions to be triggered when a certain MIDI note within an item on the timeline was played.
So basically what was supposed to happen was when the play cursor reached the trigger note it would execute the media slot action that played a MIDI file and those notes would be recorded. The notes form the media file action that get recorded along with the trigger note should allow me to measure the latency. I thought as long as the results where within a few ms that I should be able to set up a somewhat reliable system..., but much to my surprise on occasion the media slot action's output was recorded before it reached the trigger note and other times many ms after the trigger note.

So I'm not sure if it's the action systems fault or the MIDI system which in turn could be dew to the Windows timer(which has been a known issue for years within the DAW community). It would be super cool if the Cockos guys could write their own timer for MIDI events that didn't rely on Windows, as I'm sure that would fix a lot of the current issues with MIDI.

Anyway I do hope Justin or Schwa can come up with some sort of solution. It would open the door to some new and really creative possibilities. Especially utilizing Jeffos cool media slot actions, REAPER could become the best sampler/sequencer ever in addition to being the greatest DAW.

[Anton9]

Hey Jeffos,

I was just wondering if you plan on adding the 'pause' media slot actions?
No hurry..., just wondering?

[TonE]

Originally Posted by Jeffos

Some other media file slot use-cases: jingles, bulk of SysEx to some MIDI hardware with a key stroke, etc.. But there are also various "Add media file slot" actions (and not only play/loop actions!) : so if you have some samples/MIDI patterns you often use, you can bind them to key strokes.

How many such play actions can be triggered in parallel, using the same keystroke? For example can I say: "each time I press the key A do play following ten midi files". And each midi file would be routed through a different track in the arrangement? If this is possible, you could setup, just as the last tracks of your project, e.g. such 10 "action play tracks", then having different definitions/sets for those "action play tracks" which you could trigger in real-time. If you would define 3 such sets, A,B,C, you could fire those to your desire.

For playing it seems it is like a "file sampler" then. This might be interesting to have some files/samples which you might like triggering between sections, like cymbals, other boom sounds, some vocals "lets dance"...

[TonE]

Originally Posted by Anton9

I set up one of the media slot actions to be triggered when a certain MIDI note within an item on the timeline was played.

How did you do this? Do you route those notes somehow back into Reapers control channel?

[Anton9]

Originally Posted by TonE

How did you do this? Do you route those notes somehow back into Reapers control channel?

Yes.., using the MIDIREARoute plugin also made by Jeffos.

[TonE]

Originally Posted by Anton9

Yes.., using the MIDIREARoute plugin also made by Jeffos.

I never had a need for midirearoute so far, but rethinking about it again, it might help automating the whole midi mapping process. Imagine following scenario:

- your project is defined and nothing will change any more, e.g. the number of tracks, all required fx.
- you know already which notes and cc you want to map to which parameters exactly, which track, which fx, which parameter
- here comes the trick: creating a midi file, with a sequence of all your events you want to map to those parameters
- then playing this midi file, slowly, giving Reaper always enough time inbetween those events
- NOW the missing part is, which is necessary this idea to work: adding also a few actions inbetween these events, which just go to the next parameter which should be mapped.


As a summary: We need to create two different sequences

1. sequence of parameter selections
2. sequence of midi events

then mixing those sequences, in such a way which is not too fast for Reaper.

What would be the best way of creating a sequence of parameter selections via actions? What would be a cool parameter selection method is something like: track(n or name).fx(name).parameter(name)

This would allow most complex midi mappings for your entire project, no matter how big and how complicated, VERY COMFORTABLY, without having to edit .rpp files directly!

UPDATE: Problem SOLVED.

[Pantera_Rapida]

I'm really new to Reaper. Right now I use it mostly to host my soft synths which I play through 2 midi keyboards and midi pedals.

What I'm trying to do is record a sequence of notes with a soft synth, then be able to launch that recording continuously by triggering any of my pedals so I can continue to play bass while that sequence plays. When I step off the pedal I want the sequence to stop.

Would MIDIREARoute work? Can someone point me to where I can get this file and an explanation on how to configure it? Thanks.

[TonE]

What I am missing in the category "SWS Actions to Select Tracks" mostly is:
- name based track selections, NO MATTER what the name is. Something like: SWS_SELTRKNM%put-any-name-here%

So we could select actually, very precisely, just based on track names! As long as you name your tracks intelligently, you could do all your precise track selections, only with these already.