All-notes-off MIDI command sent regardless of preference (FIXED)

[Banned]

REAPER sends 'all-note-off' commands to external MIDI devices on stop, even when the setting in Preferences > Audio > MIDI Devices [sic!] for "On stop/play: Send all-notes-off" is disabled. See this video (2.1mb QuickTime .mov) illustrating the problem.

Bug Report here, please vote if you can reproduce and care to have it fixed.

[EvilDragon]

Confirmed.

[danfuerth]

confirmed 100% with the Midiox logs.

[gofer]

Originally Posted by Banned

<3 MIDI love bump! <3

(Seriously, am I the only one? Please vote if you can reproduce.)

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

I can't believe I'm the only one who voted as reproducible.

Originally Posted by danfuerth

reproduced here

Windows 8 x64

Confirmed 100% with Midiox

Really weird.

andsomechar

[Justin]

Just to confirm, it only sends it when a track has its output routed to the hardware? Because these get sent at the track level, and not the hardware level (i.e. if you put a midi logger on a track, you'll see it gets the all notes off messages as well).

I'll add an option for this -- in the mean time, if the "run FX when stopped" option is off (in prefs/audio), and not set to flush fx on stop, it should prevent these from being sent.

Same should probably go for the pitch resets that get sent to the track as well, eh?

[EvilDragon]

Same should go for any kind of reset IMHO, Justin. Why a separate option for this when you could just make the regular MIDI reset checkboxes be valid for hardware outputs?

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Justin

Just to confirm, it only sends it when a track has its output routed to the hardware? Because these get sent at the track level, and not the hardware level (i.e. if you put a midi logger on a track, you'll see it gets the all notes off messages as well).

I'll add an option for this -- in the mean time, if the "run FX when stopped" option is off (in prefs/audio), and not set to flush fx on stop, it should prevent these from being sent.

Same should probably go for the pitch resets that get sent to the track as well, eh?

(And from bug report thread: )

Originally Posted by Justin

I posted in the discussion thread, but in short these are actually sent at the track level. Need to sort out the best way to handle sending all notes off and pitch resets on stop; removing it at the track level could greatly affect the way plug-ins behave etc, so it will take some care to fix (whether this should be an option or not is TBD).

(Sorry for the late response...)

Indeed, they happen at the track level; REAPER also sends such note-off commands when a track does not have a MIDI Hardware Output set up in its I/O settings. But that is not clear from the context, while the all note-off setting seems to be dysfunctional: it is always enabled, making the preference either broken or redundant.

I think I agree with ED that we wouldn't necessarily need any additional preference for this one to distinguish between internal and external MIDI routings (if I understand him correctly - I'm not aware of any "regular MIDI reset checkboxes" other than these ones and the one in Media > MIDI: "Send all-notes-off when un-record-arming a track").

Perhaps what's confusing me most here, is the placement of these options in Preferences > Audio > MIDI Devices. Of course the "Audio" bit there is already a clue that the menu structure does not always accurately reflect the appropriate context for the individual settings, but I would still assume that "MIDI Devices >MIDI hardware settings" context actually means that the preference works for external MIDI output.

So, I would suggest moving all preferences which are related to MIDI out of the Audio section, into a dedicated section for Preferences > MIDI, and move all preferences which are not exclusive to external MIDI devices to a general subsection.

(For a slightly related example: I would *love* to see an option to reconfigure the mute / solo functions on tracks containing MIDI to use MIDI note-off commands instead of abruptly cutting off audio.)

As to pitch and CC# resets: these also work at the track level, but disabling them works as expected (unlike disabling note-offs).

However, they're useless to me. I typically do not want any pitch bend resets on stop - if I want resets at all, I want them on *start* (and/or perhaps on loading a new project). When pressing stop, MIDI instruments are typically still playing the release stages of envelopes on the notes that have been stopped (i.e. have received note-off commands), and resetting any pitch bend (or CC#) that was applied before is simply not musically useful to me at all - in my book, although not technically a bug, that is quite a severe design flaw. And much the same goes for CC#s. But that also adds insult to injury by sending 'standard' CC#s for volume (coarse only - no option for 14 bit mode), pan (coarse only - same), reverb send level (why this one only?), and hold pedal, without any way to configure them (e.g. set up which CC#s to reset, and which 'default' values to reset to). They really just get in my way, and tell me "REAPER doesn't 'get' MIDI".

Outright silly, imho, is resetting these CC#s and pitch bend during *pause*. I seriously can't even imagine any workflow where this would be useful (I'd like to hear of such a use case, if any).

Indeed, we should really sort out the best way to handle sending events like all notes-off, pitch bend, and CC# events on start/pause/stop. Imho these issues should better be discussed with related issues like event chasing (and perhaps not only for MIDI, but also including automation), than under the header of external MIDI hardware I/O settings. Indeed, changing anything could greatly affect the way plug-ins behave, but that is also exactly what I want to achieve. Imho, these options currently are simply an unusable mess, for plug-ins just as well as for external MIDI. So I'd love to discuss any possible improvements.

[EvilDragon]

Bump for importance. Devs, let's discuss this and fix this annoying issue.

[Studio Tan]

I am having a problem with this also.

And it sends off message when I loop within the project.

I thought an easy fix would just be to loop from, say, measure 2...but alas, same problem.

[dr.squ]

Originally Posted by Studio Tan

I am having a problem with this also.

And it sends off message when I loop within the project.

I thought an easy fix would just be to loop from, say, measure 2...but alas, same problem.

At me same !

I changed from old Logic to Reaper. The only anyoing is the "All-Notes-Off" in loop mode. It needs a checkbox like the checkboxes in preferences for start/stop.

Please build in a checkbox for disable "All-Notes-Off" in loop mode.
Usually it's enough to push panic (F3) manually.

[dr.squ]

If Tracks are in Solo-Mode, than its doesn't sends "All-Notes-Off" ...

[jazznfunk]

Not confirmed on solo mode.

I use Reaper in live setup. Loops, backs and click is multichanneled out of my RME, also seperate outs from VSTi, played live by me. Very handy and nice!

I start track from region manager, at the end of this track i have !1016 defined marker (stop) to do not play next song in timeline w/out my command. Then i select next desired track in region manager, hit 'space' and so on, You got the idea. So far so good.

We often play some tails at the ends of songs, and there this "send all notes off" problem hits in.

But most interesting is this: When i hold fingers on MIDI keys (notes from MIDI key is being sending) when cursor passes !1016 'stop' marker, playback stops, and VSTi keeps sounding as desired. BUT. When this last chord is on sustain with no palms on MIDI keys, VSTi stops at !1016 'stop' marker. And it is "send all notes off" sign. Because VSTi i use (Alicias Keys) plays some release key noises, soundboard resonanses, as usual at situation that kind.

Yes, in reaper settings all "send notes off" is disabled.

[FlavioB]

... of this annoying bug. Please fix it asap!
I'm trying to play from my MIDI external keyboard through Reaper which is simply playing a drum loop: no way to have this thing sorted out, each time the loop begins from start, my notes get cut-off!!!

Thanks,
F.

[mezzo]

Yes,when I imported midi loop from Stylus (and many other),move cursor to start
item and play,sound does not begin from start of loop.And in "loop mode" cut
play every time at the starts of loop (((.
This is not in any other DAW (((.

[ivansc]

Bump to remind the devs this needs fixing.

[Bollani73]

Please fix it!!!

[EvilDragon]

Originally Posted by Justin

I'll add an option for this

2 years later... still no option?


May I suggest a matrix of checkboxes here?

                   Start  Pause  Stop  Loop
All-Notes-Off                      x
Reset Pitch Bend     x
Reset CC             x

Seems like this would take care of everything. We don't need those stinking resets when looping (or pause)!

[EvilDragon]

v5.05pre13 deals with this, can you fucking believe it?!

[ivansc]

A small, cautiously reserved frightfully British "yay"...

Pending trying it out.

[TauTau]

is there a fix yet? I still have that "B0 7B 00" message after some hand drawn notes in the raw view, and it confuses my device...

[Guod3]

Looping kills held notes each time the playback head hits the start of the loop.
This is on external hardware midi synth.
Has this been fixed?
If so, how do I change this setting?
If not, why not? :-(
Thx