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Old 03-23-2024, 02:32 PM   #25521
Geoff Waddington
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Looking at some of these test posts makes it clear we should consider simplifying the whole AutoMap/Learn workflow, it's very error prone and can be confusing.

We have a secret weapon, Focused FX now works !

I propose the following as a starting point for discussion.

Remove the NoMap Zone.

FXMenu will display NoMap for any FX without Zone definitions.

The LearnFocusedFXParams Zone will behave like any other Associated Zone.

The button for AutoMap will move inside the LearnFocusedFXParams Zone.

That way, we only need one control for LearnFocusedFXParams in the Buttons Zone.

What do you think ?
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Old 03-23-2024, 02:55 PM   #25522
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I like where you're going. Would it be feasible to tweak the design so that:

1. Activating "GoFXSlot" on a "NoMap" plugin automatically enters Learn mode
2. Focusing an FX with no map also automatically enters Learn mode
3. Then all you need is a single "AutomapFocusedFX" action on your surface that would work for any FocusedFX with NoMap

Only thing that might get tricky is multiple surface setups and not having them enter Learn mode when focusing FX and you don't want them to.

The challenge with a LearnFXParams Associated zone versus the NoMap option is surfaces going to be on surfaces like the Twister. I've got an FXMenu going, but I'm not really calling AssociatedZones up or anything due to the limited number of buttons. But if I were instantly in Learn mode, then I could just keep a side button dedicated to the rare instances where I want to Automap.
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Old 03-23-2024, 03:11 PM   #25523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
I like where you're going. Would it be feasible to tweak the design so that:

1. Activating "GoFXSlot" on a "NoMap" plugin automatically enters Learn mode
2. Focusing an FX with no map also automatically enters Learn mode
3. Then all you need is a single "AutomapFocusedFX" action on your surface that would work for any FocusedFX with NoMap

Only thing that might get tricky is multiple surface setups and not having them enter Learn mode when focusing FX and you don't want them to.

The challenge with a LearnFXParams Associated zone versus the NoMap option is surfaces going to be on surfaces like the Twister. I've got an FXMenu going, but I'm not really calling AssociatedZones up or anything due to the limited number of buttons. But if I were instantly in Learn mode, then I could just keep a side button dedicated to the rare instances where I want to Automap.
Good points.

The issue I see is point 2.

Anytime you mistakenly focus an FX with no map you bounce into Learn mode, too clunky and annoying.

Having a button also makes Broadcast/Listen a lot easier.

I do get your point about limited buttons on, say, a Twister.
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Old 03-23-2024, 03:22 PM   #25524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Looking at some of these test posts makes it clear we should consider simplifying the whole AutoMap/Learn workflow, it's very error prone and can be confusing.

We have a secret weapon, Focused FX now works !

I propose the following as a starting point for discussion.

Remove the NoMap Zone.

FXMenu will display NoMap for any FX without Zone definitions.

The LearnFocusedFXParams Zone will behave like any other Associated Zone.

The button for AutoMap will move inside the LearnFocusedFXParams Zone.

That way, we only need one control for LearnFocusedFXParams in the Buttons Zone.

What do you think ?
I think this is a great idea Get rid of the NoMap Zone and Learn from SlotFX. Same focused FX method for everything. With respect to @funkybot, don’t make it automatic.
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Old 03-23-2024, 05:16 PM   #25525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Looking at some of these test posts makes it clear we should consider simplifying the whole AutoMap/Learn workflow, it's very error prone and can be confusing.

We have a secret weapon, Focused FX now works !

I propose the following as a starting point for discussion.

Remove the NoMap Zone.

FXMenu will display NoMap for any FX without Zone definitions.

The LearnFocusedFXParams Zone will behave like any other Associated Zone.

The button for AutoMap will move inside the LearnFocusedFXParams Zone.

That way, we only need one control for LearnFocusedFXParams in the Buttons Zone.

What do you think ?
This all sounds like a really efficient workflow!
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Old 03-24-2024, 08:39 AM   #25526
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Ok, working through this, just thought you'd like a heads up as to the type of changes to expect:

Code:
Zone Home

    ...
    
    AssociatedZones
       	SelectedTracks
       	SelectedTrackSend
       	SelectedTrackReceive
       	SelectedTrackFXMenu
       	MasterTrackFXMenu
       	TrackSend
       	TrackReceive
       	TrackFXMenu
       	VCA
       	Folder
       	SelectedTrackTCPFX
       	SelectedTrackTCPFXTemplate
	LearnFocusedFXParams
	CustomAux
	CustomBuses
	CustomOutputs
    AssociatedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd
Code:
Zone "Buttons"
//  Encoder Assign Buttons

    Track         	GoAssociatedZone SelectedTracks 
    Global+Track  	GoHome // aka Tracks
    Pan           	GoAssociatedZone VCA
    Global+Pan    	GoAssociatedZone Folder
    EQ            	GoAssociatedZone SelectedTrackReceive
    Global+EQ    	GoAssociatedZone TrackReceive
    Send          	GoAssociatedZone SelectedTrackSend
    Global+Send   	GoAssociatedZone TrackSend
    Plugin        	GoAssociatedZone SelectedTrackFXMenu
    Global+Plugin 	GoAssociatedZone TrackFXMenu
    Instrument   	GoAssociatedZone LearnFocusedFXParams
    Shift+Instrument	AutoMapFocusedFX
    Control+Instrument	RemapZone
Code:
Zone "LearnFocusedFXParams"
    OnZoneActivation	SetXTouchDisplayColors Cyan 
    OnZoneDeactivation  RestoreXTouchDisplayColors
    Outputs		EraseLastTouchedControl
    User                SaveLearnedFXParams
 
    Rotary1		NoAction
    Fader1   		NoAction
    RotaryPush1		NoAction
    DisplayUpper1       NoAction
    DisplayLower1	NoAction

    ...
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Old 03-24-2024, 04:53 PM   #25527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
This is a result of sharing displays for each of the controls.

We used to have a problem with "psychedelic displays" , where 2 Actions tied to the same display Widget (e.g. DisplayUpper1) would cause it to wildly flicker.

NullDisplay takes care of that.

Only one display in a cell should have a param or no action, the rest should be null.

If the cell has a param, all good.

If not, you likely want to blank the cell to make sure nothing bleeds through from a lower Zone.

That's why, if no controls are used, one (typical the first) should have NoAction assigned to the displays, to ensure proper clearing.
Thanks for clearing that up, makes perfect sense.
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Old 03-25-2024, 11:48 AM   #25528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Ok, working through this, just thought you'd like a heads up as to the type of changes to expect:

Code:
Zone Home

    ...
    
    AssociatedZones
       	SelectedTracks
       	SelectedTrackSend
       	SelectedTrackReceive
       	SelectedTrackFXMenu
       	MasterTrackFXMenu
       	TrackSend
       	TrackReceive
       	TrackFXMenu
       	VCA
       	Folder
       	SelectedTrackTCPFX
       	SelectedTrackTCPFXTemplate
	LearnFocusedFXParams
	CustomAux
	CustomBuses
	CustomOutputs
    AssociatedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd
Code:
Zone "Buttons"
//  Encoder Assign Buttons

    Track         	GoAssociatedZone SelectedTracks 
    Global+Track  	GoHome // aka Tracks
    Pan           	GoAssociatedZone VCA
    Global+Pan    	GoAssociatedZone Folder
    EQ            	GoAssociatedZone SelectedTrackReceive
    Global+EQ    	GoAssociatedZone TrackReceive
    Send          	GoAssociatedZone SelectedTrackSend
    Global+Send   	GoAssociatedZone TrackSend
    Plugin        	GoAssociatedZone SelectedTrackFXMenu
    Global+Plugin 	GoAssociatedZone TrackFXMenu
    Instrument   	GoAssociatedZone LearnFocusedFXParams
    Shift+Instrument	AutoMapFocusedFX
    Control+Instrument	RemapZone
Code:
Zone "LearnFocusedFXParams"
    OnZoneActivation	SetXTouchDisplayColors Cyan 
    OnZoneDeactivation  RestoreXTouchDisplayColors
    Outputs		EraseLastTouchedControl
    User                SaveLearnedFXParams
 
    Rotary1		NoAction
    Fader1   		NoAction
    RotaryPush1		NoAction
    DisplayUpper1       NoAction
    DisplayLower1	NoAction

    ...
This looks good! Presumably Broadcast/Receive with other surfaces?
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Old 03-25-2024, 11:59 AM   #25529
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Definitely a nitpick, but do we need the "Params" in "LearnFocusedFXParams"? I get why it's there, but I think LearnFocusedFX and AutomapFocusedFX is clear enough. Otherwise, people might think it has something to do with FocusedFXParams as an action.
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Old 03-25-2024, 12:01 PM   #25530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
This looks good! Presumably Broadcast/Receive with other surfaces?
Yes, will be adding a LearnFocusedFX checkbox to Listeners.
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Old 03-25-2024, 12:02 PM   #25531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Definitely a nitpick, but do we need the "Params" in "LearnFocusedFXParams"? I get why it's there, but I think LearnFocusedFX and AutomapFocusedFX is clear enough. Otherwise, people might think it has something to do with FocusedFXParams as an action.
Good point.

Since we are changing it any way, might as well do this now.
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Old 03-25-2024, 01:01 PM   #25532
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Rethinking the Zone definitions.

Now think the AutoMapFocusedFX and RemapZone Actions should move to the LearnFocusedFX Zone.

Thoughts ?
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Old 03-25-2024, 01:04 PM   #25533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Rethinking the Zone definitions.

Now think the AutoMapFocusedFX and RemapZone Actions should move to the LearnFocusedFX Zone.

Thoughts ?
Sounds good to me and keeps all the "how do I get FX controls on my surface?" stuff together. Well, with the exception of TCPFX anyway
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Old 03-25-2024, 02:27 PM   #25534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Rethinking the Zone definitions.

Now think the AutoMapFocusedFX and RemapZone Actions should move to the LearnFocusedFX Zone.

Thoughts ?
I've got some questions on this one. Right now, if I have an FX map loaded, I can just call up a "Remap" action because I've got this in my FXPrologue

Code:
Zone FXPrologue
MainDisplay1   TrackNameDisplay
MainDisplay2   FXMenuNameDisplay
/
BankD          RemapAutoZone
BankDDisplay   FixedTextDisplay "Remap FX"
ZoneEnd
Would that still be allowed? That seems like most the logical way: 1) actiate an FX map that includes that, then 2) press Remap to direclty enter RemapFX.

In the new flow, how would this work: 1. Focused an FX, 2) click Learn FX, then 3) press Ramap? One extra button press in my instance.

But if the Remap action can be called from anywhere then, I'm good.
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Old 03-25-2024, 03:02 PM   #25535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
I've got some questions on this one. Right now, if I have an FX map loaded, I can just call up a "Remap" action because I've got this in my FXPrologue

Code:
Zone FXPrologue
MainDisplay1   TrackNameDisplay
MainDisplay2   FXMenuNameDisplay
/
BankD          RemapAutoZone
BankDDisplay   FixedTextDisplay "Remap FX"
ZoneEnd
Would that still be allowed? That seems like most the logical way: 1) actiate an FX map that includes that, then 2) press Remap to direclty enter RemapFX.

In the new flow, how would this work: 1. Focused an FX, 2) click Learn FX, then 3) press Ramap? One extra button press in my instance.

But if the Remap action can be called from anywhere then, I'm good.
Well, basing FX mapping on Focused FX only is a game changer internally, it simplifies things a lot and allows for workflows that would have not been feasible before.

Here's the current one being contemplated.

Learning is just learning, whether it's auto or manual.

Previously AutoMap (should probably be renamed to AutoLearn) would automatically save the file.

No need for that anymore.

You could activate the LearnFocusedFX Zone, then press the button assigned to AutoMap.

This would AutoMap all params, but would not save anything.

Since you are already in Learn mode, you could then touch and erase controls, add controls, etc., until you were happy, then press save.

I think the whole thing can be much more seamlessly integrated with the new approach.

You can Focus an already mapped FX and hit Learn to go back to Learn mode.

Trying to get the whole Ux to be more intuitive, seamless, and cohesive.
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Old 03-25-2024, 04:38 PM   #25536
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Makes sense. What I'm just saying is: I want to retain the ability to call up the Remap window directly from an FX zone without having to load the Learn AssociatedZone first. Example: I have a map setup and now I just want to open the Remap window to rename controls. Why make me go into the Learn zone first?

The new vision for Learn sounds great.
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Old 03-25-2024, 05:05 PM   #25537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Makes sense. What I'm just saying is: I want to retain the ability to call up the Remap window directly from an FX zone without having to load the Learn AssociatedZone first. Example: I have a map setup and now I just want to open the Remap window to rename controls. Why make me go into the Learn zone first?

The new vision for Learn sounds great.
Ah, got it.

Yup, you can call Remap from anywhere.

The rest you can only call from with the LearnFocusedFX Zone.

Of course, there is nothing stopping you from having Remap defined both ways.
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Old 03-26-2024, 10:14 AM   #25538
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I've hinted at major changes coming to CSI...

Pleased to announce today that CSI is being strongly considered for inclusion in the Reaper install.

We definitely need everyone in the community to help make this happen.

That means lots of QA testing.

It also means making some hard decisions about the CSI folder content.

I know there will be well founded opinions on which is the best .mst layout for a particular surface, or the best Track.zon definition, etc., but I think CSI has been in production long enough that we can come to (mostly) consensus, on most items

Let's get testing, vetting, and curating, and make this more likely to happen !
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Old 03-26-2024, 11:50 AM   #25539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
I've hinted at major changes coming to CSI...

Pleased to announce today that CSI is being strongly considered for inclusion in the Reaper install.

We definitely need everyone in the community to help make this happen.

That means lots of QA testing.

It also means making some hard decisions about the CSI folder content.

I know there will be well founded opinions on which is the best .mst layout for a particular surface, or the best Track.zon definition, etc., but I think CSI has been in production long enough that we can come to (mostly) consensus, on most items

Let's get testing, vetting, and curating, and make this more likely to happen !
Congrats that's pretty big news!
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Old 03-26-2024, 12:06 PM   #25540
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Awesome news!

We are waiting for the next beta to test, right?
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Old 03-26-2024, 12:13 PM   #25541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flipotto View Post

We are waiting for the next beta to test, right?
Yes, working on Learn.
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Old 03-26-2024, 12:54 PM   #25542
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That's great news! Looking forward to this! Congrats!
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Old 03-26-2024, 06:58 PM   #25543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
I've hinted at major changes coming to CSI...

Pleased to announce today that CSI is being strongly considered for inclusion in the Reaper install.

We definitely need everyone in the community to help make this happen.

That means lots of QA testing.

It also means making some hard decisions about the CSI folder content.

I know there will be well founded opinions on which is the best .mst layout for a particular surface, or the best Track.zon definition, etc., but I think CSI has been in production long enough that we can come to (mostly) consensus, on most items

Let's get testing, vetting, and curating, and make this more likely to happen !
Awesome news!!! Congratulations!!!

Jd
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Old Yesterday, 08:47 AM   #25544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
I've hinted at major changes coming to CSI...

Pleased to announce today that CSI is being strongly considered for inclusion in the Reaper install.

We definitely need everyone in the community to help make this happen.

That means lots of QA testing.

It also means making some hard decisions about the CSI folder content.

I know there will be well founded opinions on which is the best .mst layout for a particular surface, or the best Track.zon definition, etc., but I think CSI has been in production long enough that we can come to (mostly) consensus, on most items

Let's get testing, vetting, and curating, and make this more likely to happen !
Great news! Definitely a well deserved outcome of your constant dedication, Geoff.

My most sincere congratulations!
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Old Yesterday, 10:51 AM   #25545
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Thanks to the community, you folks made it happen !

One thing we haven't mentioned yet, the wiki.

Would be great to improve this, all ideas more than welcomed.
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Old Yesterday, 04:49 PM   #25546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Thanks to the community, you folks made it happen !

One thing we haven't mentioned yet, the wiki.

Would be great to improve this, all ideas more than welcomed.
A search function, where you can search a term and it will find any reference to it on any page.
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Old Yesterday, 05:30 PM   #25547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freex View Post
A search function, where you can search a term and it will find any reference to it on any page.
Hmmm...

Maybe a wiki isn't the best way in the first place.

PDF ?

Something else ?
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Old Yesterday, 07:02 PM   #25548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freex View Post
A search function, where you can search a term and it will find any reference to it on any page.
I found a browser extension that lets you search for any word on a github wiki. Much better than the stock search. Will post the name of you need me to. On my phone at the moment.
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Old Today, 04:52 AM   #25549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freex View Post
A search function, where you can search a term and it will find any reference to it on any page.
I agree 100%, that's what I found the hardest when I was first learning how to create my CSI setup, I would find some info and then 2 days later could not find it anymore because I didn't remember how to get there.
A search function would've saved me a ton of time.
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Old Today, 05:21 AM   #25550
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If you're open to a browser extension, there's a Chrome/Edge extension called "Wiki Search for GitHub". Works exactly how you hope. I used it the last time I needed to hunt down references to an outdated action and it pulled up all of them.
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Old Today, 05:27 AM   #25551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
If you're open to a browser extension, there's a Chrome/Edge extension called "Wiki Search for GitHub". Works exactly how you hope. I used it the last time I needed to hunt down references to an outdated action and it pulled up all of them.
I wish I knew earlier lol! Thanks for that, I'll definitely use it next time.
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Old Today, 05:41 AM   #25552
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I wish I knew earlier lol! Thanks for that, I'll definitely use it next time.
I only discovered it recently myself, and trust me: no one's spent more time hunting down information on the wiki than I have. Would've saved me a LOT of time if I knew about it sooner.
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Old Today, 08:47 AM   #25553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
I only discovered it recently myself, and trust me: no one's spent more time hunting down information on the wiki than I have. Would've saved me a LOT of time if I knew about it sooner.
Awesome, now make sure to put a link to that at the top of the main page every page IN BIG BOLD WRITING lol.
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