Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER Bug Reports

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-20-2016, 12:33 PM   #1
Paul Eye
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 305
Default Bug with exclusive solo and hidden tracks

As the title says, there's a bug when exclusive soloing tracks that are hidden, either from TCP or MCP. It seems a bit complicated but I'll do my best in trying to explain the situation.
I have a simple .rpp attached, consisting of 3 tracks:

1: Not hidden
2: TCP hidden
3: MCP hidden

Basically the bug is that if I exclusive solo track 3 (from the TCP obviously) and then track 2 (from the MCP), the solo for track 3 isn't cleared.
Then again, if I first exclusive solo track 1 from the TCP and then track 2 from the MCP the solo for track 1 is cleared. If I then exclusive solo track 1 from the TCP, the solo for track 2 isn't cleared, but if I do the same for track 1 from the MCP instead, the solo for track 2 is cleared.
So it seems that this bug happens only after a hidden track is exclusive soloed, and another track is exclusive soloed from the other CP.
Of course the first solo doesn't need to be explicitly "exclusive" if no solos are active.

This also affects unsolo all, hidden tracks don't get unsoloed if unsolo all is done from a different CP than where the (exclusive) solo was done from.
For example: solo tracks 1 and 3 from the TCP, then unsolo all from track 1 in the MCP and track 3 is still soloed. This works on more tracks too: all soloed hidden tracks are unsolo all-able (yes, that's a silly sounding term) only from the CP they were soloed from.

I think that's about it, if I come up with more scenarios I'll add some info.

REAPER 5.30 (haven't done anything in REAPER for quite some time so I have no idea how long the bug has been there).
Attached Files
File Type: rpp hidden_tracks_exclusive_solo_bug.rpp (3.0 KB, 278 views)
Paul Eye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 04:38 AM   #2
bFooz
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 2,588
Default

Still present in 5.40. (Win7 x64, Reaper x86)

bFooz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 11:35 AM   #3
Dstruct
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
Default

Confirmed (5.40 x64).
Dstruct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 01:10 PM   #4
EpicSounds
Human being with feelings
 
EpicSounds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,570
Default

I find this behavior pretty useful to be honest.
__________________
REAPER Video Tutorials, Tips & Tricks and more at The REAPER Blog
EpicSounds is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 06:25 PM   #5
Paul Eye
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 305
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds View Post
I find this behavior pretty useful to be honest.
Exactly how do you find this useful? I guess the majority of us finds this rather irritating
Paul Eye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2018, 06:42 PM   #6
Paul Eye
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 305
Default

Still there in 5.80
Of course, if this is by design, could someone tell me what the practical use of this even is? I find it rather counterintuitive having to remember where I've soloed my tracks from.
Paul Eye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 06:12 AM   #7
Justin
Administrator
 
Justin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,721
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds View Post
I find this behavior pretty useful to be honest.
I could see it being useful for mutes, but for solos it seems like it would be annoying more than anything, since a hidden soloed track prevents all nonsoloed tracks from playing.
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 08:24 AM   #8
EpicSounds
Human being with feelings
 
EpicSounds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,570
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
I could see it being useful for mutes, but for solos it seems like it would be annoying more than anything, since a hidden soloed track prevents all nonsoloed tracks from playing.
very unlikely a user would solo and hide a track accidentally.

I do it when editing multitracks. I might solo kick and snare, plus the track I'm editing and only show the drum bus folder and the track I'm editing.

I frequently use shortcuts to show only selected tracks, hide selected track, and show all tracks. Hidden in both TCP and MCP. I don't use the track manager.

Don't remember exactly what I was working on a year ago when I made the comment.

I wouldn't want an action like 'unmute all' or "unsolo all" to apply to non-visible tracks.
__________________
REAPER Video Tutorials, Tips & Tricks and more at The REAPER Blog
EpicSounds is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 08:39 AM   #9
Paul Eye
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 305
Default

This affects mutes ("exclusive" and "unmute all") too, by the way.
The point is that if you do and exclusive solo/mute it should turn the solo/mute off for all other tracks, and unsolo/unmute all should actually do what it says. A track's hidden state shouldn't affect this, right?
Paul Eye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 12:55 PM   #10
EpicSounds
Human being with feelings
 
EpicSounds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,570
Default

For recording it's often necessary to mute and hide alternate versions of performances.

For mixing it's often necessary to mute and hide multiple reference tracks until needed.

In a template you may have many tracks with fx ready to use but muted to eliminate CPU use.


I'd never want those hidden tracks to become unmuted.

it works great (IMO) the way it is now.

If we just hung up on the language "all" =/= "all visible", then it still works the same as other actions. Selecting all items doesn't select items on hidden tracks. Editing grouped items with some tracks hidden will only work with the visible tracks (would be great if that wasn't the case though).
__________________
REAPER Video Tutorials, Tips & Tricks and more at The REAPER Blog
EpicSounds is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2018, 03:16 PM   #11
bFooz
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 2,588
Default

Yeah, muting/unmuting of hidden tracks could stay as it is.

Soloing could change.
bFooz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2018, 06:17 AM   #12
Justin
Administrator
 
Justin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,721
Default

Quote:
very unlikely a user would solo and hide a track accidentally.
Actually it seems pretty likely to me -- in fact if a user does this, I'd say it's more likely to be accidental than to be on purpose!

Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds View Post
For recording it's often necessary to mute and hide alternate versions of performances.

For mixing it's often necessary to mute and hide multiple reference tracks until needed.
Yep I agree -- but soloing seems different.
Justin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2018, 07:44 AM   #13
bFooz
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 2,588
Default

When we are at it, what about "mute lock" mute mode - the track will not be unmuted by "unmute all" nor by "exclusive mute" but only manually exiting this state.
bFooz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2018, 05:38 PM   #14
Paul Eye
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 305
Default

The whole point here is that it shouldn't matter which CP you do the soloing from when you have differently hidden tracks (TCP/MCP) in your project.
For example:
I practically always hide top level folder tracks from the TCP. Now let's say I have a synths folder. I solo the folder (from the MCP of course as it's hidden from the TCP) to work on the synths. Next I want to work on a single bass track, so I exclusive solo it from the TCP. This however does NOT unsolo the synths folder, as I soloed the bass track not from the same CP (and there's a slight "huh? didn't I just solo the bass track? why are the synths playing?" before I realize what's up).
If I'd have soloed the bass track from the MCP the synths folder would be unsoloed; this works also after trying to solo the bass track from the TCP.
So yeah, I don't think it's supposed to happen like this

Of course, this being REAPER, you could have this behaviour as an option.
Paul Eye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2019, 03:39 AM   #15
dimitris
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 104
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bFooz View Post
Yeah, muting/unmuting of hidden tracks could stay as it is.

Soloing could change.
My thoughts exactly!

Still annoyed trying to unsolo. It often happens accidentally to me - even though I know about it.
dimitris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2019, 10:32 AM   #16
bFooz
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 2,588
Default

Bump for 5.984BOO.
bFooz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2021, 10:34 AM   #17
GeneralMidi
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 226
Default

I had this problem today. I'll try to explain why I think Justin should reconsider.

Solo and view just the strings to work on. V1, v2, vla, cli, bss. Working on. Nice. Let's add back in the synths to check it all fits. Just have the synth and strings visible. Yup all working nice. I'll hide the synth and bring the percussion in (view and solo). No probs, I just want to work on V1 while still viewing the whole string section and percussion. Oh, exclusive solo is not working for V1. Is that the synth still soloed? Wait, what did I last solo, I can't remember anymore. Oooh. Ok, back to TM to start unhiding and checking etc.

Major creativity hurdle. Technical getting in way of creating.

That was my experience today. Kinda shocked exclusive solo doesn't mean what it says.

I'm a definite newbie to reaper world. If I've missed something obvious, please let me know.

Cheers guys
GeneralMidi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2021, 09:26 PM   #18
Paul Eye
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 305
Default

Oh, it's still there.
Looks like I've subconsciously learned to avoid the exclusive solo in these past 4 years and then some.
Paul Eye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2021, 07:17 AM   #19
GeneralMidi
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 226
Default

Hi Justin, I saw your response to deeb in the Pre-Release thread. Is this somehow related with the envelopes on muted tracks too? Would be great if both could be fixed/changed at some point.
GeneralMidi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2021, 04:29 PM   #20
talustalus
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,025
Default

Still happening with v6.37.


Any chance of this being fixed?


What is the use case of applying an 'exclusive' item solo and have it be non-exclusive by only considering the visible tracks' items and not the hidden ones?
talustalus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2021, 03:33 PM   #21
talustalus
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,025
Default

If you want to really exclusive solo an item using the exclusive solo command, as it stands you would have to create a custom action that first makes all tracks visible in the tcp and then performs the solo on the item you want.

If items are not visible they are ignored.

Do you agree exclusive solo should exclusively solo an item regardless of other items' visibility?
talustalus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.