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02-21-2019, 08:12 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,572
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anyone w experience with behringer control surfaces?
Looking at the mini or the compact. Worth it?
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02-21-2019, 11:22 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NA - North Augusta South Carolina
Posts: 4,294
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Wow, those have flown completely under my radar. I must have dismissed them as their live mix consoles...
X-touch One looks interesting, but then I've got a B control that's sitting on a shelf.
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02-21-2019, 02:42 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: So Florida
Posts: 1,436
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Hi,
Don't have it, but make sure you get the one that has more than 0-127 fader resolution otherwise you'll get zipper noise.
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02-21-2019, 04:16 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Praha, Czech republic
Posts: 595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LugNut
Hi,
Don't have it, but make sure you get the one that has more than 0-127 fader resolution otherwise you'll get zipper noise.
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Most of available mixer controllers would use MCU protocol, when communicating with Reaper.
MCU uses pitchwheel messages at different MIDI channels for sending of fader value, so it's 14 bit at protocol level.
Of course, it doesn't mean all hardware faders has such precision. Typically cheaper ones are 8 bit, the better ones are 10 bit (1024 steps).
Then it's up to controller firmware (incl. first possible smoothing), how is that lower resolution fader mapped to 14 bit messages.
The second place, where zipper noise gets usually addressed is controlled software itself. It's good practice to assume, controls events aren't perfectly continous (be it because of coarse value steps or not enough time precision like in case of VST2 plugins, where its parameters are send from DAW at processing block boundaries), if zipper noise is concern, then it's smoothed out. Of course, there has to be some compromise between smoothing and laggy response.
The same applies also for faders, I personally haven't experienced audible zipper noise with Reaper track volume faders (be it from UI or external controller), so I assume it's properly smoothed.
So I don't agree, that lower resolution fader means, it will be automatically problematic with regards to audible zipper noise.
Michal
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02-21-2019, 04:18 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: So Florida
Posts: 1,436
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Hi,
Did you read which ones he's lookin at?
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02-21-2019, 04:24 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Praha, Czech republic
Posts: 595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LugNut
Hi,
Did you read which ones he's lookin at?
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Hi,
Yep, I've read it.
Did you read my post? It doesn't matter, whether it's Behringer or any other controller, the described things apply to all control surfaces.
Michal
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02-21-2019, 10:42 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,784
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I daily and very happily use a Compact with my keyboard setup. It's extremely versatile when doing dedicated software for it (I did a bunch of JSFXes for this). The "Standard mode" is completely documented and the elements can be programmed to use different messages and (e.g.) Midi channels and CC numbers, note numbers. Moreover in my ("stage") application, the built-in 5 pin Midi / USB gateway and the USB hub and the Foot controller input are very welcome, saving additional hardware.
Huge drawback in standard mode:
1) The two "layer" knobs "A" and "B" don't send or receive any message to the host.
2) Only the active layer receives messages from the host, perfectly valid messages to the other layer are silently ignored, so that when switching, the new layer shows an outdated state. Due to (1), the software can't update this state at that point, either.
I also investigated to use my "Compact" as a regular DAW Control surface. Should work (e.g. with the "CSI" Reaper extension), as well in standard as in MC mode, but drawbacks:
1) Only 7 bit resolution as well in standard as in MC mode (upper Midi byte in MCP sent as a constant). (BTW, due to Reaper's software quality, I don't suppose Zipper noise (I did not try yet), but in certain situations, 7 bit resolution is not really "nice" with faders.
2) Not documented or programmable in MC mode
3) A lot of knob- (press or turn) actions are not assigned in MC mode.
Due to the excellent price and perceived hardware quality, a combination of a "Compact" and a "One" might make a lot of sense as a DAW controller, anyway.
-Michael
Last edited by mschnell; 02-21-2019 at 10:59 PM.
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02-22-2019, 03:23 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 797
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I have recently bought Mini. I had "full coverage" solution for it with Cakewalk, but I have never touched the device before.
It is the only DAW controller for €40 (new) of that kind. I have tried DJ controller for that money before, touch sensitive high resolution "disk" is a hammer (with special software for the DAW), but buttons was catastrophic (and one of them was broken after several days). Korg Nano reminded me about music toys for children. Mouse wheel as an encoder (I have written corresponding extension for REAPER) is not good (mouse independent, probably the reason MS has introduced a dedicated knob formed "encoder" not so long time ago).
So for the money, Mini hardware is the best device on the market.
Price unrelated observations.
Encoders are not the best but also not the worse I have touched. I like them more then Novation Nocturn, but less then M-Audio and (old) Peavey. Hard plastic, low resolution, relatively heavy to turn, extra heavy to push. But they "tick" reliably and produce no false signals (no wrong direction, no extra ticks).
Buttons are good. Not perfect, but better then many other.
So that device can be called "a DAW controller", without comments like "what you expect for such money...".
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Mini needs special DAW integration. "MC mode" with MC DAW support is useless, simple MIDI assignment kills feedback and just 2 layouts limit the functionality. So CSI preset, OSCIIbot script or something else has to be written to make it useful with REAPER. I do not have own solution (at least not yet... will be).
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02-22-2019, 08:40 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,958
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I was all set to buy the X-touch one in january but they were unobtainable - literally every online retailer was waiting for stock.
As I continued to research the unit a major drawback emerged. The fader does NOT follow your mouse. So for instance lets say you're working on channel 1 and now you want to work on channel 12. Clearly all you need to do is click on channel 12 and everything works right? Nope, the X one works in banks of 8. You have to bank up to 9-16 then click on track 12. IMO that is a work flow deal breaker.
I stopped looking at the X one so maybe there has been a firmware update to address this but i don't know.
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02-22-2019, 04:30 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azslow3
I have recently bought Mini. I had "full coverage" solution for it with Cakewalk, but I have never touched the device before.
It is the only DAW controller for €40 (new) of that kind. I have tried DJ controller for that money before, touch sensitive high resolution "disk" is a hammer (with special software for the DAW), but buttons was catastrophic (and one of them was broken after several days). Korg Nano reminded me about music toys for children. Mouse wheel as an encoder (I have written corresponding extension for REAPER) is not good (mouse independent, probably the reason MS has introduced a dedicated knob formed "encoder" not so long time ago).
So for the money, Mini hardware is the best device on the market.
Price unrelated observations.
Encoders are not the best but also not the worse I have touched. I like them more then Novation Nocturn, but less then M-Audio and (old) Peavey. Hard plastic, low resolution, relatively heavy to turn, extra heavy to push. But they "tick" reliably and produce no false signals (no wrong direction, no extra ticks).
Buttons are good. Not perfect, but better then many other.
So that device can be called "a DAW controller", without comments like "what you expect for such money...".
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Mini needs special DAW integration. "MC mode" with MC DAW support is useless, simple MIDI assignment kills feedback and just 2 layouts limit the functionality. So CSI preset, OSCIIbot script or something else has to be written to make it useful with REAPER. I do not have own solution (at least not yet... will be).
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I also have the Mini controller. I have a lot of other controllers so I am only using this for the buttons - it really is a nice button controller, and for only $40. For me, it is easy to setup and easy to assign actions to the buttons. I forgot, it has 2 banks so each button can have 2 separate actions! I really don't have a strong need for the rotaries at this time, but that will change soon as I "plan to" use them to control sends on a selected track. Otherwise I share the same feelings as azslow on the how it feels in your hand. Not a fan of the plastic, either, but it really is a nice controller for the cost.
Honestly, if I can get the CSI control integrator to play nice with it, I will probably buy another 1 or 2 of these and put them in a custom enclosure, it will look great and be very useful. Imagine 24 rotaries and 48 buttons (x2 banks!) for $120!!!
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