v6.78+dev0325 - March 25 2023

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by bolgwrad

My 2c worth would be that an 'unsync' means that you have made a change: a fade, split or other edit, whether in the comp or the source, that you decide to commit to or else undo. That's why the double-click to sync (I still prefer just the glyph) is useful; it means you have done an item/comp edit and are moving along a stage.

It might be that you want to undo a whole sequence in retrospect, which is why the duplicate+sync is worth having.

Hi bolgwrad.

Yes, but this can all be done within the Fixed Lanes... no? That's what I don't understand. And by doing so, you are not unsyncing AFAIK.

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by FeedTheCat

Unsynced comp areas are not desirable, but if we want to leave source lanes untouched and have multiple comp lanes, we can't avoid them. That's why imo we should do our best to embrace them and use them to our advantage where we can.

Hmmm... I'm thinking even with multiple Comp lanes if everything is done "correctly" in the Fixed lanes, you can still easily have multiple Comps without Sync issues.... no?

Originally Posted by FeedTheCat

What I was suggesting above is that you could deliberately unsync an area in order to edit its items without affecting the area.

But isn't that what additional Comps are for?

Sorry... I'm not trying to be daft, I'm just trying to wrap my head around these unsynced real-world benefits.

[ovnis]

For me, when we transform a fixed track to a regular track, items shouldn't be trimed or go inside takes.

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by Thonex

Hmmm... I'm thinking even with multiple Comp lanes if everything is done "correctly" in the Fixed lanes, you can still easily have multiple Comps without Sync issues.... no?

But isn't that what additional Comps are for?

Sorry... I'm not trying to be daft, I'm just trying to wrap my head around these unsynced real-world benefits.

You're viewing it as a feature, when something unsyncing is a consequence of changing the Comp Media with respect to its Source Media - not a feature with pros/cons.

Example - you comp in a line and then nudge the items in the Comp Lane. The Comp lane and its Source are now out of sync.

The Comp Area surviving a desync is useful because of retaining crossfades and keeping the ability to switch lanes and all that, but this necessitates having to "save the unsynced edits" because technically they don't have a source lane after they've been modified - so that's what that special action is for (something like "copy unsynced areas to new lane, comp them").

[ferropop]

And yeah you could just keep duplicating the comp to preserve the edits (if I'm understanding you correctly), but then you're unnecessarily duplicating everything when really you just need to selectively preserve one-off desyncs.

[Thonex]

@ferropop and @FeedTheCat,

Ok, I think I understand how you guys are using Unsynced now: To further move/edit the Comp lanes while not cluttering up the Fixed lanes. Ok... I get that now.

Since I work on large projects with 16+ mics and many takes, I really would want some kind of preference so I can't inadvertently get out of sync... Like a "Cannot Move Comp Items Out Of Sync".

[dub3000]

got a crash while drawing in a new empty MIDI item in +dev0325

can't repro

anything i can do to help diagnose?

thanks


Faulting application name: reaper.exe, version: 68.134.48.137, time stamp: 0x641f80e0
Faulting module name: reaper_midi.dll, version: 1.0.0.1, time stamp: 0x641f7f76
Exception code: 0xc0000005
Fault offset: 0x000000000011ec64
Faulting process ID: 0x78b8
Faulting application start time: 0x01d9606ecac6e3f2
Faulting application path: C:\Program Files\REAPER (x64)\reaper.exe
Faulting module path: C:\Program Files\REAPER (x64)\Plugins\reaper_midi.dll
Report ID: 585ad3ea-44a3-4292-8e8b-9de2d9d9aba1
Faulting package full name:
Faulting package-relative application ID:

Fault bucket 1391089084809625073, type 4
Event Name: APPCRASH
Response: Not available
Cab Id: 0

Problem signature:
P1: reaper.exe
P2: 68.134.48.137
P3: 641f80e0
P4: reaper_midi.dll
P5: 1.0.0.1
P6: 641f7f76
P7: c0000005
P8: 000000000011ec64
P9:
P10:


I have a windows crash dump, I think.

[EvilDragon]

Please stream settings of column widths in the new MIDI devices dialog to Reaper.ini!

ERROR NOT FOUND is not very nice looking towards the user. It's also inconsistent with <not present>. Maybe styling of this could be matched so that it says <not found> instead?

Sorting columns by ID seems to not work at all.

[benmiller]

Originally Posted by Thonex

Since I work on large projects with 16+ mics and many takes, I really would want some kind of preference so I can't inadvertently get out of sync... Like a "Cannot Move Comp Items Out Of Sync".

As long as you don't allow editing while comping then things can't go out of sync.

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by benmiller

As long as you don't allow editing while comping then things can't go out of sync.

I'm not sure I follow you. You can edit in fixed lanes without going out of sync. Is there some Comp Lane pref that doesn't allow editing that I didn't know about?

[benmiller]

Originally Posted by Thonex

I'm not sure I follow you. You can edit in fixed lanes without going out of sync. Is there some Comp Lane pref that doesn't allow editing that I didn't know about?

Ah sorry my bad, the comp lane is allways editable.

[benmiller]

Originally Posted by FeedTheCat

What I was suggesting above is that you could deliberately unsync an area in order to edit its items without affecting the area.

I would argue that you can already do this by going out of comp mode, do your edit, go back to comp mode -> your items are edited, and the area is still their as it was, but out of sync. But i guess you are thinking of beeing able to see the area limits while doing the edit?

I think beeing able to set an area as unsynced when in fact the content is still synced could lead to some serious confusion. You could potentially end up with something shown out of sync although it is synced.

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by Thonex

@ferropop and @FeedTheCat,

Ok, I think I understand how you guys are using Unsynced now: To further move/edit the Comp lanes while not cluttering up the Fixed lanes. Ok... I get that now.

Since I work on large projects with 16+ mics and many takes, I really would want some kind of preference so I can't inadvertently get out of sync... Like a "Cannot Move Comp Items Out Of Sync".

Mostly this behavior to unsync comes because users didn't want to destroy their sources while editing in comp lane. But this is going to be useful as well when only the comp lane would be visible. Where it will not be possible to see the rest lanes with the sources, so this would make it "safe" to move the area without destroying any source that's not visible but at the same time you could still comp others bellow, on different place in the timeline.
So having said that, now it's not possible to unsync an area when we want it for those reasons, but only when we edit something which is not ideal.

[Vagelis]

Some proposal regarding synced areas, when we move a synced area in comp lane it moves just the area from the attached source lane. Wouldn't it be useful to move all areas together with all sources as well at the size of this comp area?

This would make it useful to move areas in comp lane and re-comp the sources bellow while always staying in sync, it would be similar to takes behavior where all takes are moving together and it's possible to comp when only one take is visible.

The positive thing with takes though is that it's an item so nothing gets trimmed compared to areas.

[Vagelis]

Copying an area works great with synced areas, but when I copy an unsynced area removes it.

[FeedTheCat]

Originally Posted by benmiller

I would argue that you can already do this by going out of comp mode, do your edit, go back to comp mode -> your items are edited, and the area is still their as it was, but out of sync. But i guess you are thinking of beeing able to see the area limits while doing the edit?

Yes.

Originally Posted by benmiller

I think beeing able to set an area as unsynced when in fact the content is still synced could lead to some serious confusion. You could potentially end up with something shown out of sync although it is synced.

Hmmm, my hope was that maybe we can turn it from something confusing to something useful. But maybe you're right and it's just confusing

My angle here was a bit of a weird one:

For example, I strongly believe that using "S" to split comp items in a synced area should not unsync the area by default. It should split the comp area and give us two synced areas.

But reaper is about options, so I thought that manual unsync might be a clever little idea to have two distinct behaviors. Thinking more about it, it probably isn't a good idea... An option would be much less confusing.

[Vagelis]

^^ my proposal from the post 21

Originally Posted by Vagelis

EDIT: In general every other daw that allows flexible editing, everything stays always in sync because some edits are reflected to the sources. I think we should find which those edits are and compromise. For me fades are one of those, but instead of reflecting straight to the source, the could be reflected to their comp area.
And as i see it, the other option would be to always reflect edits to the sources and everything stay in sync, but with an action to toggle this behavior.

Maybe this is the key for always stay in sync when we want (reflect any edit to the source) when not ,disable the option and unsync.

[Hipox]

Hi
I'd like to point on a few issues I'm having with zoom/scroll in Fixed item lanes (FIL).
Currently, FIL offers what I need for basic recording&editing workflow, but I am missing the integration with the rest of Reaper basic functions.

(1) User can not control to which item in FIL is zooming with mouse wheel & action 'View: Zoom vertically (MIDI CC relative/mousewheel)'. The zoom affects the whole track (when having Settings/Editing Behaviour/Vertical and Horizontal zoom center set on Mouse options).

(2) Same as point before, action 'View: Toggle zoom to selected items' affects the whole track, not just selected FIL items.

(3) Action 'View: Scroll vertically (MIDI CC relative/mousewheel)' in my case scrolls every time way more when zoomed in than desired (resp. every trigger of this action scrolls too much for my taste when zoomed in (when Arrangement screen estate displays 1-2 tracks). I don't mind the scroll speed when zoomed out, but this action becomes unusable in a scenario we're having 20+ lanes in FIL and want to scroll 'a bit' to reveal more lines in Arrangement screen estate / just have another lane in focus (middle of the screen).

I guess this can be just my preference, but still, something has to be done in this matter regarding FIL and navigation.

I made a little script that can replace default action 'View: Scroll vertically (MIDI CC relative/mousewheel)' (attached to this post) and kind of works for me.
But I see in this quite a big potential and it could be interesting to developers as well.

Here are a few points regarding what could be done and what this script can become:
[ ] Implement better formula for adjusting according to user's needs (right now it's a hit or miss, I imagine more sophisticated formula)
[ ] Achieve better user experience and tweakability with GUI and a graph (curve that can be tweaked by user - add points, ramp, etc.)
[ ] Create alternative script for horizontal scroll (it already implements this kind of behaviour, but let's give user more control over scroll)
[ ] Add presets system
[ ] Add the same functionality to Midi Editor

Here is a comparison between my script and 'View: Scroll vertically (MIDI CC relative/mousewheel)':
View: Scroll vertically (MIDI CC relative/mousewheel):

Script: Hipox - Vertical Scroll Relative to Zoom Level (mousewheel).lua:

EDIT: updated script to include inertia in mouse scrolling

[benmiller]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

Some proposal regarding synced areas, when we move a synced area in comp lane it moves just the area from the attached source lane. Wouldn't it be useful to move all areas together with all sources as well at the size of this comp area?

Yes, i think this as a mouse modifier option, in adition to the "move associate source lane bit" which we already have would be usefull.

[benmiller]

Originally Posted by FeedTheCat

For example, I strongly believe that using "S" to split comp items in a synced area should not unsync the area by default. It should split the comp area and give us two synced areas.

this would make sense. as the content is still identical in comp and source lane. the "s" action would become a spilt item and comp areas at cursor. Could be a good default, and there could still be an action to split only item nd not area (which would be the current behaviour).
And for this i don't think manually unsyncing an area (with out editing anything) would be any help.

[FeedTheCat]

What do you guys think about the interaction between razor edits and comp areas?

As it stands you can only interact with comp areas in the source lane.



Maybe that should be reversed? So that you can only interact with them in the comp lane?

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

Some proposal regarding synced areas, when we move a synced area in comp lane it moves just the area from the attached source lane. Wouldn't it be useful to move all areas together with all sources as well at the size of this comp area?

This would make it useful to move areas in comp lane and re-comp the sources bellow while always staying in sync, it would be similar to takes behavior where all takes are moving together and it's possible to comp when only one take is visible.

The positive thing with takes though is that it's an item so nothing gets trimmed compared to areas.

Wouldn't that break multiple Comp Lanes?

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by FeedTheCat

What do you guys think about the interaction between razor edits and comp areas?

As it stands you can only interact with comp areas in the source lane.

Maybe that should be reversed? So that you can only interact with them in the comp lane?

Right now I'm able to use the Razor tool in both Comp and Fixed Lanes.

I definitely wouldn't want it to be only available in the Comp lane though... that's for sure.

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

... it would be similar to takes behavior where all takes are moving together and it's possible to comp when only one take is visible.

Are you currently able to edit the comp lane when only they comp lane is visible? I can't get into that state. Is there a command I'm missing?

[FeedTheCat]

Originally Posted by Thonex

Right now I'm able to use the Razor tool in both Comp and Fixed Lanes.

I definitely wouldn't want it to be only available in the Comp lane though... that's for sure.

Hmm, not sure what you mean... I wasn't proposing to remove razor editing from fixed lanes. I was asking how (and where) razor edits should interact with comp areas.

Originally Posted by Thonex

Are you currently able to edit the comp lane when only they comp lane is visible? I can't get into that state. Is there a command I'm missing?

No, not possible yet. But schwa has mentioned multiple times that it will be added.

[Zeno]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

Some proposal regarding synced areas, when we move a synced area in comp lane it moves just the area from the attached source lane. Wouldn't it be useful to move all areas together with all sources as well at the size of this comp area?

This would make it useful to move areas in comp lane and re-comp the sources bellow while always staying in sync, it would be similar to takes behavior where all takes are moving together and it's possible to comp when only one take is visible.

The positive thing with takes though is that it's an item so nothing gets trimmed compared to areas.

I agree. Especially because otherwise there can be unpleasant surprises when you later have the ability to collapse lanes. Because then you don't see what happens in the respective lanes. I don't want to get into the situation of having accidentally turned my sources into swiss cheese. Moving all underlying lane items when moving or copying comp lane items therefore makes totally sense to me.

Application example: I have comped a vocal for the bridge, collapsed the lanes, copied the bridge to another place in the arrangement and slightly rearranged the second bridge. When I then open the lanes to select another take for some phrases for more variations, I should not have to deal with a mess there.

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by FeedTheCat

Hmm, I don't understand what you mean... I wasn't proposing to remove razor editing from fixed lanes. I was asking how (and where) they should interact with comp areas..

Well, right now, when you Razor move in a fixed lane item, it depends on 3 things AFAICT:

1) Razor-moving a selection in the fixed lane to the same lane just replaces that audio on that lane and doesn't touch the comp swipe.
2) Razor-moving a selection in the fixed lane to the same lane but to a new blank area creates a new item and comp area.
3) Razor-moving a selection in the fixed lane to to a different lane creates a new fixed item, creates a new Comp area, and updates the Comp accordingly.

I quite like the functionality as it is now.

Originally Posted by FeedTheCat

No, not possible yet. But schwa has mentioned multiple times that it will be added.

OK, in that case, I think there should definitely be a toggleable option like:

Move Fixed lane items when Moving Comp Lane (or similar)

[ovnis]

It would be nice to have the possibility to handle the items in the source lane, in the same way that we interact with items inside a regular track. Actually we can't do it when there is "comp into this lane".

With more mouse modifiers we could handle items in a regulard way or create comp item with the selection the item source with left mouse click + alt (for exemple). So it should be faster as previous one but with more possibility of editions.

We would not need to switch from one mode to another to make some basic item editions.

Originally Posted by FeedTheCat

What do you guys think about the interaction between razor edits and comp areas?

As it stands you can only interact with comp areas in the source lane.



Maybe that should be reversed? So that you can only interact with them in the comp lane?

[benmiller]

Originally Posted by ovnis

It would be nice to have the possibility to handle the items in the source lane, in the same way that we interact with items inside a regular track. Actually we can't do it when there is "comp into this lane".

With more mouse modifiers we could handle items in a regulard way or create comp item with the selection the item source with left mouse click + alt (for exemple). So it should be faster as previous one but with more possibility of editions.

We would not need to switch from one mode to another to make some basic item editions.

did you try ticking " allow editing in source lane" when right clicking on lane header button? that sets you in a view where you can edit source lanes and keep comping

[ovnis]

Originally Posted by benmiller

did you try ticking " allow editing in source lane" when right clicking on lane header button? that sets you in a view where you can edit source lanes and keep comping

Yes but we can't modify quickly the comp area (like in the other mode). Or I haven't find the good action?

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by ovnis

Yes but we can't modify quickly the comp area (like in the other mode). Or I haven't find the good action?

Try this action and bind it to a key command:
Track: Toggle allow editing media items while comping

[benmiller]

Originally Posted by ovnis

Yes but we can't modify quickly the comp area (like in the other mode). Or I haven't find the good action?

you can still swipe in the narrow yellow band showing the area under every lane

[ovnis]

Originally Posted by Thonex

Try this action and bind it to a key command:
Track: Toggle allow editing media items while comping

thx you. I will test this, but I think it should be done with cycle action and some "if... then".

Originally Posted by benmiller

you can still swipe in the narrow yellow band showing the area under every lane"

I haven't yellow bands with "allow editing in source lane"".

edit : I have found it. The issue was my theme. Issue fixed! Thx for the help!