4alpha11

zappadave · 12-12-2010, 10:49 AM

v4.0alpha11 - December 12 2010
+ Batch converter: more "Open output folder" fixes
+ Toolbar: floating toolbar docks across the width of the arrange view
+ Mouse modifiers: don't clear item selection on right-click
+ Mouse modifiers: when track default click behavior is customized, clear item selection on click below tracks
+ Mouse modifiers: when track default behavior is set to marquee, still obey auto-seek prefs
+ Render: set focus to render target path when opening render dialog
+ Panning: new sine taper modes for balance and stereo pan modes (probably only useful at 3dB and 6dB, but configurable)
+ Stereo pan mode: when enabled for track, track will try to always show width control along with pan
+ Pan window: checkbox for compensated gain, to help avoid confusion on positive gain values
+ New pan/balance modes: fixed compensated gain mode
+ Width control: fixed (probably) incorrect attenuation at lesser widths

Toolbar looks nice

karl · 12-12-2010, 10:51 AM

Quote:

+ Toolbar: floating toolbar docks across the width of the arrange view

Nice!

steadyrev · 12-12-2010, 10:52 AM

The juggernaut '4' rolls onward.

jm duchenne · 12-12-2010, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zappadave

v4.0alpha11 - December 12 2010
+ Mouse modifiers: when track default behavior is set to marquee, still obey auto-seek prefs

Thanks !

Kundalinguist · 12-12-2010, 10:57 AM

Quote:

v4.0alpha11 - December 12 2010
+ Toolbar: floating toolbar docks across the width of the arrange view

Groovy.

karl · 12-12-2010, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karl

Nice!

I take it back. Just tried it out - and it's at the expense of being able to dock the floating toolbar over the top of the main toolbar. Not happy about that here at all! I thought the ability to dock over the main toolbar was inspired - and a custom button was enough to be able to toggle it on/off as needed. It was brilliant and was already well into doing just that!

This new way is at the expense of track area height - and I certainly appreciate the option, but bring back the previous option as well. I think this is the first time I've felt annoyed about the change of a feature. You've just ruined it for me I'm a afraid... it's a step backwards in my view. At least allow the TWO things!

Edit: Tried clicking and dragging it (while docked) to see if I could in fact dock it over the toolbar - it completely vanishes!

d.bop · 12-12-2010, 11:02 AM

Quote:

+ Panning: new sine taper modes for balance and stereo pan modes (probably only useful at 3dB and 6dB, but configurable)

Cool! I can't experiment until later but this sounds exciting

Thanks for the top-dockable floating toolbar, too!

AdamWathan · 12-12-2010, 11:09 AM

Quote:

+ Toolbar: floating toolbar docks across the width of the arrange view

Amazing! Huge step forward in "dockability" in my opinion, so excited for this!

Quote:

+ Pan window: checkbox for compensated gain, to help avoid confusion on positive gain values

Good idea changing this, the old way did indeed confuse people! Don't forget to change it in the Project Settings window as well for overall pan law

gofer · 12-12-2010, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zappadave

+ Stereo pan mode: when enabled for track, track will try to always show width control along with pan

Aaah, that not only streamlines workflow nicely, but also helps slimming the WALTER file and the layout menus.

Goodygoodygood

karl · 12-12-2010, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamWathan

Amazing! Huge step forward in "dockability" in my opinion, so excited for this!)

I agree, but I want to be able to dock over the main toolbar as well, like we could in the previous alpha - I am unbelievably gutted that this function has now gone - for me personally, it's the thing I was most excited about since finding out about WALTER, and now it's been taken away! Bring it back please

brice · 12-12-2010, 11:17 AM

nice, docking the floating toolbar,
now how about hiding its content keeping the tabs visible on tab double clicking, kinda like the office ribbon.

hope that's a sign of more docking love to come,
like an option to have tabs on top.

gofer · 12-12-2010, 11:32 AM

Quick WALTER question: is there a scalar value for "is stereo pan" so we can automatically add the width label when the width fader appears?

AdamWathan · 12-12-2010, 11:35 AM

Quick thoughts on the docked toolbar...

-Kill the white border when docking? Keep it more like the docked transport maybe...

-Put the project tabs underneath the docked toolbar instead of above since the toolbar state is global anyways. More like a web browser where you have tools and menus on top, tabs underneath, which brings me to my next point...

-Somehow someway to dock the Main Toolbar inside the new docked floating toolbar as a tab?

PitchSlap · 12-12-2010, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zappadave

v4.0alpha11 - December 12 2010
+ Batch converter: more "Open output folder" fixes

Working now, thanks!

Jae.Thomas · 12-12-2010, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamWathan

Quick thoughts on the docked toolbar...

-Kill the white border when docking? Keep it more like the docked transport maybe...

-Put the project tabs underneath the docked toolbar instead of above since the toolbar state is global anyways. More like a web browser where you have tools and menus on top, tabs underneath, which brings me to my next point...

-Somehow someway to dock the Main Toolbar inside the new docked floating toolbar as a tab?

+1

as we talked about (or more accurately, you talked about and I nodded and confused things)

I think it would be cool to just be able to move the main toolbar up there, and that's it.

perhaps some other info could go in that space left behind if you wanted it to.

WyattRice · 12-12-2010, 11:55 AM

Great. Floating toolbar docks across the width of the arrange view.

Would be great to have different sections that were dockable, and resize them vertically, and a way to undock the main toolbar. Just a thought.

Edit: Also the ability to show or hide borders.

How about Walter for toolbars?

BenK-msx · 12-12-2010, 12:19 PM

dockable floating toolbar is a good step!, but this particular implementation needs work for sure.

the loss in arrange view space is a bit too much imo, getting it down to as few lost pixels as possible would be the aim I'd hope:

- this could be done by 'auto-hiding' the tabs so they only appear on r-click or mouse-hover over the left/right edge or something. or for the purposes of docking, make the tabs as small as possible. think 'inline midi editor' GUI.

alternatively, there is space to the right of the menus and to the left of the audio driver info where the tabs could go when the toolbar is docked. bit crazy but why not?

as AW said the border looks bad and doesn't really need to be there.
-

personally i reckon the main toolbar should remain in its original place, and the floating toolbar only dock to its right, extra space for this is available as seen in the .gif in the alpha10 thread:

if expanding ruler/marker/regions area created space at the top only instead of each area expanding equally as it does now, combined with space saving on the toolbar itself, would allow you to dock it to the right of the main toolbar with a loss of arrange space equal to or only a touch more than the space lost by expanding the main toolbar currently.

please consider!!

karl · 12-12-2010, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenK-msx

dockable floating toolbar is a good step!, but this particular implementation needs work for sure.

the loss in arrange view space is a bit too much imo,

Which is partly why I liked the implementation of the the dockable toolbar in the PREVIOUS alpha (alpha 10) - docking over the top of the main tool bar.

This is how I was using it:

^^ A custom icon with an action to show/hide the docked toolbar. I found this solution to be ideal. It gave me quick access to a different set of tools when I needed them, plus there was no loss of arrange space. I can't do it this way now in the Alpha 11 implementation.

I was an instant fan. I don't understand why this facility has been removed, and I'm feeling quite exasperated about it!

If REAPER is about providing options, then I want the option to dock over the main toolbar! (As well as over the arrange window)

Shan · 12-12-2010, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamWathan

Quick thoughts on the docked toolbar...

-Kill the white border when docking? Keep it more like the docked transport maybe...

+1...or allow us to edit the color.

Shane

Shan · 12-12-2010, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karl

Which is partly why I liked the implementation of the the dockable toolbar in the PREVIOUS alpha (alpha 10) - docking over the top of the main tool bar.

This is how I was using it:

Nice approach. Both options should be available. Or, the ability to click & drag & dock anywhere in the UI.

Shane

BenK-msx · 12-12-2010, 12:52 PM

so i had to check with a mock and there definately is the space for a no border 'no tabs on the outside' docked toolbar in the space created by extending main toolbar:

the space is created from expanding the main toolbar, but simply without affecting the ruler/marker/region area size, and docking FT to the right, with new tab buttons. thats all.

note i have not resized anything here except the toolbar tabs which could be even smaller. (and the whole pic is small due to forum resize.. i know

) and you can see the 2 buttons on the right fit just fine.

in this arrangement you could of course have your 3 button height main toolbar and a docked floating toolbar all within the same height. certainly not the case now.

i recommend this. i do.

edit - rough guess you could have 25 or more toolbar buttons in this docked TB, which is as many as a 3 tier mainTB of 'usual width'.

Kundalinguist · 12-12-2010, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WyattRice

...

Would be great to have different sections that were dockable, and resize them vertically, and a way to undock the main toolbar. Just a thought.

...

I like the look of this. One of the things that sets Reaper apart (from my understanding, anyway) is the ability to customize such things as the toolbar whereas in other DAWs it is set. I think this kind of divided top with two customizable menus at single icon height is a good feature. With a feature to hide both???

nicholas · 12-12-2010, 01:11 PM

Small point. Toolbar context menu still says "Dock floating toolbar over main toolbar." Should this now be something like " ... above Ruler"?

Also, should this command be available from a floating toolbar context menu instead of/as well as the main toolbar menu? That seems the logical place to look for it ...

Dstruct · 12-12-2010, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zappadave

+ Panning: new sine taper modes for balance and stereo pan modes (probably only useful at 3dB and 6dB, but configurable)
+ Stereo pan mode: when enabled for track, track will try to always show width control along with pan
+ Pan window: checkbox for compensated gain, to help avoid confusion on positive gain values
+ New pan/balance modes: fixed compensated gain mode
+ Width control: fixed (probably) incorrect attenuation at lesser widths

Cool, but it gets worse and worse with all those technical terms. We now have 5 pan modes

IXix · 12-12-2010, 01:17 PM

I like the toolbar. I'd go so far as to suggest scrapping the idea of a 'main' and 'floating' toolbar and just combine the two into the current floating toolbar, with the main as a tab. If you could dock it in several different places that would be sweet. In fact, it would be fantastic if we could just dock all the toolbars, the transport and the docker wherever we wanted.

Imagine how cool it would be if the user could completely rearrange all of the GUI component parts to suit their own taste! With WALTER sitting on top as the visual overlord!

I need to go lie down now.

mabian · 12-12-2010, 01:17 PM

I confirm that currently dragging down the floating bar while it's docked above main toolbar makes it disappear. There was a similar problem in previous alphas when docking the toolbar over main toolbar, it was gone in alpha10a, now it's back and worse.

- Mario

IXix · 12-12-2010, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mabian

I confirm that currently dragging down the floating bar while it's docked above main toolbar makes it disappear. There was a similar problem in previous alphas when docking the toolbar over main toolbar, it was gone in alpha10a, now it's back and worse.

- Mario

Here too. Hide then show makes it come back in the docked state.

karl · 12-12-2010, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shan

Nice approach. Both options should be available.

Sure - I certainly wouldn't want to get rid of docking above the arrange window - just keep the dock in the main toolbar option!

Not sure about being able to quite dock the floating toolbar everywhere, but these are what I see as the ideal options:

1: Dock above the arrange window (stretches across the top of the whole workspace.

2: Dock in the main toolbar area (fills out and occupies the same space as the main toolbar)

3: Dock with transport (either above, below, or both). The transport itself wouldn't have to be docked of course, and the floating toolbar could occupy that space on its own.

It would also be good if the main toolbar itself could be hidden/collapsed (or even un-docked!), thus allowing those who just want a toolbar across the the top of their workspace that option.

AdamWathan · 12-12-2010, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicholas

Small point. Toolbar context menu still says "Dock floating toolbar over main toolbar." Should this now be something like " ... above Ruler"?

Also, should this command be available from a floating toolbar context menu instead of/as well as the main toolbar menu? That seems the logical place to look for it ...

Already there sir!

karl · 12-12-2010, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IXix

I like the toolbar. I'd go so far as to suggest scrapping the idea of a 'main' and 'floating' toolbar and just combine the two into the current floating toolbar, with the main as a tab.

I think the facility to just hide/collapse the main toolbar would suffice - plus, by default, a tab on the floating toolbar could duplicate the same set of buttons (we should of course get at least one extra tab to cover this set-up!

)

nicholas · 12-12-2010, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zappadave

v4.0alpha11 - December 12 2010
+ Stereo pan mode: when enabled for track, track will try to always show width control along with pan

This is exactly what was missing.

spikemullings · 12-12-2010, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IXix

I like the toolbar. I'd go so far as to suggest scrapping the idea of a 'main' and 'floating' toolbar and just combine the two into the current floating toolbar, with the main as a tab.

Oh yes.

How many tabs would you have ideally? I think I would want 8 including main:

Main
Tracks
Items
Screensets
Automation
Transport
Misc
Another one I can't think of at the moment - edit - probably freeze/render tools

Xenakios · 12-12-2010, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zappadave

+ Toolbar: floating toolbar docks across the width of the arrange view

Very nice development!

Bernstraw · 12-12-2010, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zappadave

+ Toolbar: floating toolbar docks across the width of the arrange view

Great, thank you !
Now more tabs for the floating toolbars would be nice !

Quote:

Originally Posted by IXix

I'd go so far as to suggest scrapping the idea of a 'main' and 'floating' toolbar and just combine the two into the current floating toolbar, with the main as a tab.

But the main toolbar area would be empty then ?

Dstruct · 12-12-2010, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zappadave

+ Stereo pan mode: when enabled for track, track will try to always show width control along with pan

Depending on the layout settings, the pan+width faders are showing the big pan thumb image instead of the two smaller ones.

Also why doesn't it work on the Master?

karl · 12-12-2010, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bernstraw

But the main toolbar area would be empty then ?

Yeah, that's a good point. More reason to keep it as a place to optionally dock the floating toolbar imo

Renan L.B · 12-12-2010, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zappadave

v4.0alpha11 - December 12 2010
+ Panning: new sine taper modes for balance and stereo pan modes (probably only useful at 3dB and 6dB, but configurable)

OMGD IT'S FINALLY HERE! THANK YOU Cockos!!!

dub3000 · 12-12-2010, 02:27 PM

One man's:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dstruct

Cool, but it gets worse and worse with all those technical terms. We now have 5 pan modes

is another's:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renan L.B

OMGD IT'S FINALLY HERE! THANK YOU Cockos!!!

Renan L.B · 12-12-2010, 02:32 PM

Heheheh Dstruct got a point though it looks messy right now for newcomers and current/veteran users aswell.. we need a touch of simplicity to get things nice and groovy ;] but please DO KEEP these new implementations just make it easier for everyone to understand/use them

airon · 12-12-2010, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamWathan

Quick thoughts on the docked toolbar...

-Kill the white border when docking? Keep it more like the docked transport maybe...

-Put the project tabs underneath the docked toolbar instead of above since the toolbar state is global anyways. More like a web browser where you have tools and menus on top, tabs underneath, which brings me to my next point...

-Somehow someway to dock the Main Toolbar inside the new docked floating toolbar as a tab?

Thus, instead of looking like this :

https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/446550/...rrangement.png (126kB)

it could look like this :

https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/446551/...rrangement.png (191kB)

I chose multiple project tabs to be open, plus a slightly busy looking session to illustrate a real world situation, instead of an empty project screen. The toolbars were just copied. I rarely use multiple tabs of them, but I may place more functions in the toolbars, if I could better arrange them, as shown, and if I could colour them. It's way more work to hand paint these icons, than to just specify a colour and some text.