Old 06-12-2009, 03:29 PM   #1
White Tie
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Default Request - CC HiHat controller

I've no idea if this would be possible to do with JS, but if you don't ask...

The Problem

I find just 2 stages of hihat (open/closed) to be inadequate. I like a range of degrees of open. Also, I find standard mute groups to be a pain, because while a closed hihat hit should mute a ringing open hihat hit, IMO a open hihat hit should not mute another one, they sound better overlaid, particularly if the second hit is of much lower velocity.

What I'd like

I'd love to be able to use, say, 5 sample sets for 5 degrees of 'opne-ness' (assigned to different midi notes in my sampler), and choose between them with a continuous controller (mmm footpedal). I'd like to be able to tell one sample to be muted by others, but not mute itself. And I like to play my hihats over a number of keys, though they actually behave as if they were the same key.

So, a note would come in, within a certain range of notes. Depending on the position of a chosen controller, it would be routed to output as one of 5 selectable note numbers. Depending on choosable states per output note, it might send note-offs to one or more of the output notes before it sounds.

The Obligatory Mockup



...is that possible? Anyone interested? Go on.... go on go on go on....
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Old 06-13-2009, 02:00 AM   #2
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I have something like this but with hardcoded values, no time to update it, interessed anyway?
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Old 06-13-2009, 02:07 AM   #3
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Totally kick ass!

+200

~RobRokken.
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Old 06-13-2009, 02:13 AM   #4
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weird - I was just talking about this. the high hat is always the dead giveaway of sampled drums because HH hits don't ever sound THAT identical.
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Old 06-13-2009, 03:57 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffos View Post
I have something like this but with hardcoded values, no time to update it, interessed anyway?
Yes please sir!
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Old 06-13-2009, 05:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RRokkenAudio View Post
Totally kick ass!

+200

~RobRokken.
+201

Guido
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Old 06-14-2009, 03:05 AM   #7
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WT, coming near to you soon...
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Old 06-14-2009, 03:48 AM   #8
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I could use this right now!!

https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/171809/RobSolo.mp3

~RobRokken.
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Old 07-08-2009, 12:49 PM   #9
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I have created a batch of hi-hat samples that can be used in conjunction with this JS. It's a "Sabian 10-inch AA Mini Hats" set I have been sampling over the period of a year or so.

I recorded 5 degrees of open-ness, from nearly closed to nearly wide open. I have between 3 and 5 variation or "random" samples for each open-ness level.

The samples are 24-bit/44.1kHz stereo .wav format. Fully edited and ready to be dropped into the sampler of your choice.

Recording Info: Rode NT-4 stereo condenser mic into a Core Sound Mic2496 stereo pre A/D converter.

PM me if you'd like the set to test with the JS (33MB file).
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Old 07-08-2009, 07:16 PM   #10
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Once we get the Js, well be fine

~Rob.
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Old 07-08-2009, 08:56 PM   #11
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Are you imagining a 2d set of samples? ie different velocities AND different open-nesses. Or even a 3d set of samples (different velocities, different openness, extra dimension for randomizing samples)?

As far as some 'notes' muting different sets of notes, is that sort of stuff normally encoded into soundfont files? If so, does the format allow for more complex muting scenarios such as the one your describing?

And yes, HH hits are always the give-away!
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Old 07-09-2009, 12:21 AM   #12
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The JS (with standard GUI) I've sent to WT is attached here.
As I said to WT, this an adaptation of another JS of mine that normally faces an e-drum hardware. I updated it so that it sent notes-off as described by WT but this not a standard MIDI-drum processing js (e-drum devices as well as drums VSTis generally ignore notes-off, they manage that natively).
So the tests were limited to midi monitoring... didn't get feedback since (WT !!?)
=> if you can try it - and if there's some issues - a .rpp ONLY BASED ON REATHINGS will help !

Last edited by Jeffos; 07-15-2009 at 03:04 AM. Reason: zip removed, see my last post...
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Old 07-09-2009, 12:24 AM   #13
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Wooo Hooo! Downloading now! Time to fire up Readrums!

~Rob.

Last edited by RRokkenAudio; 07-09-2009 at 12:26 AM.
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Old 07-10-2009, 03:10 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffos View Post
tests were limited to midi monitoring... didn't get feedback since (WT !!?)
I'm so sorry, I must seem terribly ungrateful, but my gear I could test this with is unavailable at the moment - but I am very excited, thanks!
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Old 07-10-2009, 03:33 AM   #15
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Hey White tie! Ok fine! let me know then...
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Old 07-10-2009, 02:12 PM   #16
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hi -
tried this out excitedly today with ADdrums using a usb keyboard as the trigger (not got my pads set up) and a mod pedal doing the cc's...

got it going once i figured the routing required but then had problems:
i had addrums on one track, hihat control on another track sending to it, with its midi input the keyboard.
another track had a modpedal midi input selected then sending to the hihat control track.

problem was on triggering a sound there is a huge cpu spike, sounds go ape, then the right hihat sound is eventually triggered. so each 'hit' of a pad for example causes glitching and bad stuff. otherwise it seemed to be doing what it ought to.

not sure whats going on, any one else having issues? great effort and useful idea, so hoping i can get it working nicely with my homebrew E-kit.
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Old 07-10-2009, 02:26 PM   #17
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BenK-msx, you're in a more familliar config. for me (e-drum -> repear -> VST). I'll post an update for e-drummers (fully tested, this one). What's your e-thing, v-drums?

[EDIT] Errr... I see => immediate update following...

Last edited by Jeffos; 07-10-2009 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 07-10-2009, 02:43 PM   #18
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cool thanks.
oh mine is just a mesh head practice kit that i added my own triggers to - the output of which just go straight in as audio (<yes), to be then midified by many instances of e.g. ktdrumtrigger.
cymbals are buthered pads from a yamaha dd55.
modified kick pedal acts as hihat CC pedal (into my bcf2000) with note trigger on 'foot-down'.
once setup (fiddly) and tweaked i have v.good response.
all very DIY...

the try-out of your Js did not involve any of that though.

i have a real hi-hat and recently have just pointed a mic at it and forgot about this e-drum hassle...

[Edit] re your edit: good to hear!
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Old 07-10-2009, 02:59 PM   #19
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Last fall I bought a plugin to solve all of my highhat problems. The Roland TD-9KXS. That, and BFD2, and suddenly things are looking up. I don't know how to get it into my plugins folder, so it's sitting on the floor in my studio for now...

But I agree, this kind of plugin would be helpful all around. However, I believe there is already one out there, but just for PCs.

http://www.chaoticbox.com/edrum_midi_mapper.php
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Old 07-10-2009, 03:37 PM   #20
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Here's a temp. fix (well, hope so!).
But I'll come back with something more close to drums (the input range isn't cool here, we need 4 edge/bow input notes etc, ...).
ohh yes, I see what you mean!! I still mainly play accoustic drums... but JS can be pretty good for that, e.g. I've coded a JS "fix" for a broken Hit hat pedal (not sending correct CC values)

Last edited by Jeffos; 07-15-2009 at 03:05 AM. Reason: zip removed, see my last post...
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Old 07-10-2009, 03:53 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kundalinguist View Post
However, I believe there is already one out there, but just for PCs.
http://www.chaoticbox.com/edrum_midi_mapper.php
yeas, I used that before I met reaper/js. just to let you know that this soft is the only one I know that hurts me, hurts me physically. smart bug: in the main table, something like 100 duplicated snare notes....
OHHHHhhh!!! MAN! I'll will always remember that stroke I did on the snare!!!!
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Old 07-10-2009, 05:31 PM   #22
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man forgives for my English, but what you made were wonderful, I was with this problem right now, speaking on the REAPER in a Brazilian site on and drums.

thanks man...
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Old 07-10-2009, 06:07 PM   #23
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Default Victoire!

working here now! very nice.

thanks alot - so much so, i threw in some french there, and thats coming from a typically one-language briton,

no excuse to not set up many track templates for my triggers/pads etc now.

cheers Jeffos.
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Old 07-15-2009, 03:19 AM   #24
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Ok, here's the updated/tested JS for drummers (I've removed the other zips).

v0.3:
- added 1 level (so 6 levels)
- Input note range -OR- up to 4 input notes
- pass thru, see details bellow
- doc added, i.e. "Click edit for info"
- Some minor fixes/updates (e.g. dummers too dumb for named notes !)

v0.4:
- added parameter "Filter (matching) Note-off events"


Download: https://stash.reaper.fm/20074/CC%20Hi...ler%20v0.4.zip




Details (copy/paste of the "Click edit for info"):
Code:

CC HiHat controller


Abstract:
This JS allows e-drummers to re-map incoming hit hat notes depending on how
they groove on their foot pedal. Even a single incoming note can be used to
trigger 6 hit hat sounds (1 closed + 5 opened hit hat sounds).


General info:
- The typical config. for this JS is: e-drum -> Reaper/this JS -> drums VSTi
- 6 levels: the 1st level is usually a closed hit hat sound and the 5 other levels
  opened hit hat sounds (drums VSTis often provide 5 open hit hat sounds)
- Default INPUT settings = Roland TD-3 ones
  THE DEFAULT CC VALUE RANGES AND MORE PATTICULARY THE 1ST ONE (closed hit hat)
  ARE FOR A FAULTY PEDAL (unreachable CC value 0)
- Default OUTPUT settings = Addictive drums, default kit.
- Pass thru for unmapped midi events (see other pass-thru properties bellow)
  => other fx can be used for further mappings (kick, snare, ...)
- Related reaper's thread: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=37580


Settings:
- Output channel: for output notes routing
  Remarks:
  * unmapped events pass thru with their original channels
  * several instances of this fx can used in the same FX chain with different input/output channels
- Input channel: usually the e-drum one
- Input note mode: specifies how the 4 following fields are used (or ignored)
- Input note 1 (or start of range):
  * Start of input note range if 'Input note mode' = 'Range (between notes 1 & 2 - others ignored)'
  * 1st e-drum input note if 'Input note mode' = 1,2,3 or 4 input note(s)
- Input note 2 (or end of range):
  * End of input note range if 'Input note mode' = 'Range (between notes 1 & 2 - others ignored)'
  * 2nd input note if 'Input note mode' = 2,3 or 4 input notes
- Input note 3: 3rd input note if 'Input note mode' = 3 or 4 input notes
- Input note 4: 4th input note if 'Input note mode' =  4 input notes
- Input pedal CC#: pedal control change number, usually '4' (Foot pedal MSB)
  Remark:
  all CC events pass thru with their original channels - even if mapped (for multiple JS instances)
- Reverse CC values: use this setting if 'opened' hits sound as 'closed' ones and vis-et-versa.
  Some pedals indeed send '0' and some send '127' for the same max open hit hat position!)
- LEVEL 1
  - Min. CC value: see below
    Remark: if this value is > 0, input notes with lower CC values will NOT be mapped (pass thru)
  - Max. CC value: an input note received with a CC value included between the level 1's Min. CC value
    and Max. CC value will trigger the level 1's output note.
  - Output note: the VSTi one. Level's 1 output note is usually a closed hit hat sound.
    Remark: when less than 6 levels are needed, a same output note may be duplicated in several levels.
- LEVEL n
  - Max. CC value: an input note received with a CC value included between the level (n-1) 'Max. CC value'
    and THIS 'Max. CC value' will trigger the level n's output note.
    Remark: this value is automatically corrected as CC ranges should be contiguous.
  - Output note: usually the VSTi one
    Remark: when less than 6 levels are needed, a same output note may be duplicated in several levels.
- LEVEL 6
  - Max. CC value: an input note received with a CC value included between the level 5 'Max. CC value'
    and THIS 'Max. CC value' will trigger the level 6's output note.
    Remarks:
    * this value is automatically corrected as CC ranges are contiguous.
    * if this value is < 127, input notes with upper CC values will NOT be mapped (pass thru)
  - Output note: usually the VSTi one. Level's 6 output note is usually an open hit hat sound.
    Remark: when less than 6 levels are needed, a same output note may be duplicated in several levels.
- Filter (matching) Note-off events: once an input note has been remapped, this parameter allows you
  to filter the related Note-off ("Yes", default) or to remap it as well ("No").
  "No" is useful when working with ReaSamplOmatic5000 rather than dedicated drums VSTis (like EZDrummer, 
  Addictive Drums, etc..) for ex.
  See http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php?p=1278385&postcount=28 too.
  Remark: new parameter introduced in v0.4

Example (typical set-up for TD-3):
Same open hit hat sounds for edge & bow hits BUT 2 different closed hit hat sounds,
one for closed hit hat EDGE hits and one for closed hit hat BOW hits.
Here the source e-drum hardware is able to send 4 different notes for the hit hat:
closed bow, opened bow, closed edge and opened bow.
1) create a 1st track armed with the e-drum's midi input / midi channel (say ch. 10).
   In the FX chain, add:
   * 1 instance of this JS in "2 input notes" mode: the 2 first input note fields are filled with
     edge opened & edge closed input notes.
     The input channel is set to 10. The output channel is set to 12.
     The CC ranges are set according to the e-drum's pedal properties.
   * 1 instance in "2 notes" mode: the 2 first input note fields are filled with bow opened and
     bow closed input notes. Same other settings than the 1st fx instance -execpt the level 1's
     output note that should differ (= the VSTi's closed EDGE -OR- BOW input notes).
2) create a 2nd track. Add drum VSTi FX. Add a receive: track 1 midi events on channel 12.
3) let's groove

Remark: in this example, all open hit hat notes sent by the e-drum are ignored.
It's up to the JS to handle that according to the foot pedal position.

Last edited by Jeffos; 03-19-2014 at 05:27 AM. Reason: v0.3 -> v0.4
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Old 04-16-2011, 09:56 AM   #25
InkIcthus
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Default Am I just stupid???

So, I downloaded the zip file provided by Jeffos (I'm a big fan of your stuff by the way and super excited to use this) but the file isn't recognized as a plugin. I put it in my VST folder but it didn't work. I notice that it didn't have an extension on the filename so I added ".dll" and that at least got Reaper to look at it but then it said it wasn't a valid Windows file. I'm lost and highly disappointed because this looks like the perfect solution to my hihat problems and it so close but yet so far... Please tell me what I'm doing wrong!

Grace and peace,
Nathan
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Old 04-16-2011, 10:19 AM   #26
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Just put the file without an extension in your Documents and settings/(your user name)/Application data/REAPER/Effects/MIDI folder.


Michael
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Old 04-21-2011, 02:25 PM   #27
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super cool, thanks!!!!
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:05 AM   #28
Guido
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Default Thank you Jeffos

Hi,

I just had to tell u U ROCK!!! Im an old old time edrummer, and i have this old Roland pd9 pad I use for a ride. My drum brain recognizes the position where i hit the center part of the pad...it also has a rim....and it sends out CC # 17..plus the ride note of course.

Then the other day I thought to myself I could use that info to put the bell sound of the ride in the very middle ..where it puts out CC#17 w a value of 127. Almost done^^

Well I must have every MIDI plug there is and the closest I could come was MIDI converter 3 by insert plz..but it didnt work. I had spent 4 freakin hours with this and gave up in disgust. I even started thinking that maybe my leaving Logic had been a bad idea. I shut down the studio....pissed off!

Then it hit me..ur plug works wonderfuly! When i hit the middle it puts out 127, then thats converted to the bells different note number. Thank u thank u Jeffos. The Reaper world would be significantly poorer without ur contributions. Merci!

Guido
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Old 03-07-2014, 09:48 AM   #29
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Hi,

Jeffos..u are magnifique! This is also works great for positional snare RIM sensing with a Roland brain triggering superior drummer! As I play "shallower" rim shots it triggers a different note that i had set that has a more "rimier" sound. Very natural...thx again u math wizard^^

The only thing..and it doesn't seem to be a big thing,as u noted long ago...but its disconcerting(feels weird) to watch the note offs take so long.

Would it be hard for a js neophyte ignoramous like me to add the note offs at shorter intervals?

And...u got any other cool drum js's?^^ like a is that has about 16 or so inputs,one for every pad trigger, that takes the pads note and allows the drummer to send it to various reaper midi busses. So that one could play various vstis,midi modules.

I owe u enormously already from ur sws,js,and overall valuable info u have left all over the reaper world! Thx!

Guido

Last edited by LugNut; 03-19-2014 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 03-17-2014, 07:05 AM   #30
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Thanks guys! Haha!
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugNut View Post
Would it be hard for a js neophyte ignoramous like me to add the note offs at shorter intervals?

And...u got any other cool drum js's?
Sorry, I don't understand the note-off question (can you elaborate a bit?): usually e-drums and/or drums VSTis do not care about note-off events at all: it's just drums afterall (i.e. no sustain). Even cymbals are choked with after-touch events, not note-off. So the JSFX I attached above do not deal with them *at all*, they should pass-through.

Also, yes, I have other JSFX related to drums but never released them, mostly because of the 64 param limit in JS (meaning you'd have to tweak the code to use them, not user friendly): the hihat controller above is an extract of a bigger mapper I've made but look at the nb of params! and it's just the Hihat!! haha!
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Old 03-17-2014, 07:25 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffos View Post
Also, yes, I have other JSFX related to drums but never released them, mostly because of the 64 param limit in JS
...


oh... we can overcome that! let me take a look.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:10 AM   #32
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What's the deal with the note-off messages, seems like they don't get passed on?

I'm trying to build some hihat stuff using RS5K and I can't seem to get the chokes to work because there's no note-off message being sent. It chokes indefinitely.

If there was an option to pass through the input note (with off message), I could perhaps make that work.

Doesn't help that I'm fairly new with this stuff. Cool plugin.
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Old 03-18-2014, 06:07 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James HE View Post
...


oh... we can overcome that! let me take a look.
Not sure of what you have in mind, haha! WT's GUI in the OP?
just in case, about the "big" e-drum mapper, I mean it's not only a GUI limitation: even with the new gfx awesomeness, we will still "only" have 64 automatable params at the end of the day...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient View Post
I'm trying to build some hihat stuff using RS5K and I can't seem to get the chokes to work because there's no note-off message being sent. It chokes indefinitely.

If there was an option to pass through the input note (with off message), I could perhaps make that work.
See my post just above. Works great RS5K but it sounds like you're after something else (?): unless you want to groove like a bot you do not want to choke a hihat with note-off events but by closing/opening it, like a pedal, with varations, i.e. with Control Change events (CC#4 "foot pedal" usually). That's the point of this JSFX. Note-offs of unmapped should pass through.
Edit: wait!

Last edited by Jeffos; 03-18-2014 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 03-18-2014, 07:23 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffos View Post
we will still "only" have 64 automatable params at the end of the day...
hmm... yeah, I was just thinking of using the gui to control other parameters.

for automation, it could work to use two different plugins - one would just be a bank of sliders linked via gmem[] to the other. the new gmem options of JS make that idea quite feasible.
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:28 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffos View Post

See my post just above. Works great RS5K but it sounds like you're after something else (?): unless you want to groove like a bot you do not want to choke a hihat with note-off events but by closing/opening it, like a pedal, with varations, i.e. with Control Change events (CC#4 "foot pedal" usually). That's the point of this JSFX. Note-offs of unmapped should pass through.
Edit: wait!
I am actually using RS5K. Perhaps choke was the wrong word, when I play an open hihat followed by a closed hihat, the open one continues to ring out. I want to change that and thought using choke plugin was the way to do it, but it needs note-off messages or it never stops choking.
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Old 03-19-2014, 06:02 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by James HE View Post
hmm... yeah, I was just thinking of using the gui to control other parameters.

for automation, it could work to use two different plugins - one would just be a bank of sliders linked via gmem[] to the other. the new gmem options of JS make that idea quite feasible.
Hey James, my post wasn't clear enough... If you want to make a sexy @gfx GUI, you are welcome - OF COURSE!
(Also, I must say the 64 prm limitation is a poor excuse: if I really wanted to, I could just split the big mapper into a "JSFX suite", like I did for the hit hat )

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Originally Posted by ambient View Post
I am actually using RS5K. Perhaps choke was the wrong word, when I play an open hihat followed by a closed hihat, the open one continues to ring out. I want to change that and thought using choke plugin was the way to do it, but it needs note-off messages or it never stops choking.
Yeah, I understood but after I posted (hence the "edit: wait!").
Well, this is indeed a different use-case: this JSFX was meant to be used like e-drum -> this JS -> dedicated drum VSTi (eg EZD, AD, etc). In this case you don't care about note-off (some e-drum HW do not sent them, even).

Your RS5K use-case is slighty different: I made a new version (v0.4, download in post #24) that should help you about that. There's a new parameter "Filter (matching) Note-off events" in v0.4: once an input note has been remapped, this parameter allows you to filter the related Note-off ("Yes", default value, like in v0.3) or to remap it as well ("No"). Other note-offs always pass-thru.
You need to set this new param to "No" and then use midi_choke, downstream, between the hit hat JSFX and RS5K, see details here: http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...5&postcount=28.
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Old 03-19-2014, 08:37 AM   #37
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......
Sorry, I don't understand the note-off question (can you elaborate a bit?):....
Hi,

Be happy to! Jeffos ur plug is the only way i have found...{short of using 3rd party midi translator pro w a virtual cable setup} to convert "positional sensing" found on some edrum brains. As u know, WHERE u strike a single acoustic drum...eg the head of a snare, toward the edge of a ride cym or toward the bell...can vastly change its sound. In my edrum setup for ex. i have a ride pad that sends out a CC value of where i struck the pad..this CC #18 gets sent just before the note gets sent. When using the brains internal sounds it plays a ride sound when i play close the edge and a toward more bell sound when i play center of pad.

Now when using VSTis ,Im using superior for ex. there is no internal use of that CC contolling what sounds.{except for the hihat and snare head position which works well currently no other instruments.} But my kit can send these position CCs from the ride and all rims. And the new td30 brain can send pos on every input i think!

So what i do is use ur beautiful fx between midi in and superior and when i play the ride toward the edge it sends a midi note with a ride sound mapped to it...and a bell sound on another midi note when i play toward the middle. Also using another instance of CC to HH to do the same thing with my snare pads RIM position. Deeper rimshots for back beat...shallow rim shots for that "dixieland" sound..ha ..even jo jo meyer uses that technique.Ha...hes a badass charlston player..hehe
Anywho back to note offs.....here is what i see when i look at the midi mapping screen when i use ur plug....the midi notes in question are the ride {F} and the snare rim{which is using E and G}....





i only hit the ride {F} once...really hard to tell whats being hit..not a huge deal, but i would love some note offs.

sorry Jeffos if i said a bunch of stuff u already know, I kinda wanted to make it clear to anyone else how super usefull this JS is. Muchos grassyass!

Math dunce

Guido

EDIT..LOL it took me so long to write this , that i see above u already did it? Jesus man! Holy batcode batman!

EDIT 2 Works perfectly now. Thank you, thank you, thank you, Jeffos.

Last edited by LugNut; 03-19-2014 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 09-28-2016, 05:04 AM   #38
Vincent Sermonne
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Jeffos ta boite est pleine du coup je transgresse:

"Jeff, pour une banque reasamplomatic, gratos bien sur, spécial edrum à venir et que je partagerai sur mon site, j'utilise le JS que tu as créés, le Hihat controler. Je voulais te demander la permission de le joindre à l'archive qui contiendra le tracktemplate et les samples ? Peut être préfèrerais tu que je donne un lien pour le télécharger ? Dis-moi ! Au passage encore merci pour ce js, lui et le mute group midi de fladd m'ont permis de faire jouer le charley avec le controleur hihat comme sur Superior drummer 2."
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Old 07-03-2018, 08:45 AM   #39
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Thanks for making that plugin Jeffos! Very useful.
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Old 06-24-2020, 05:24 AM   #40
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Works like a treat Jeffos - thanks. This really saved me!
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