Old 02-05-2020, 04:26 AM   #1
mikeroephonics
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Default My JBL LSR4326 monitor died (bulging caps) (FIXED!)

Hi.

After about 12 years of regular use, one of my JBL LSR4326 monitors has died. I opened it up to find 2 bulging capacitors, with one leaking a tiny bit of electrolyte. The electrolyte didn't spill onto anything else, so I think I just need to replace these 2 caps. I might replace all caps just to avoid any ticking time bombs. Hopefully that's all that needs replacing.

What brand and type of capacitors are good for this situation? These caps are on the analog main board, right next to two large caps. I believe they're part of the power supply.

A JBL document I found gives these details for the 2 capacitors:
CAP 1000uF EL 16V 20% GP 10x17R 5LL TA

Thanks,
Mike
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Old 02-05-2020, 07:03 AM   #2
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Panasonic or Nichicon should be as good possibly better than what is in there now, maybe look for the ones that are rated @ 150 Celsius. Age can break them down just sitting there but higher temps in PSUs can shorten their life as well.
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Old 02-05-2020, 07:10 AM   #3
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Thanks, Karbomusic!

Yeah, I saw Panasonic and Nichicon listed on this article:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews...01,4193-5.html (scroll down to "first-tier caps")

I'm checking on mouser.com now for the most durable capacitors.
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Old 02-05-2020, 07:13 AM   #4
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Coolio. For some inspiration I've replaced caps in three different non-working devices over the last few years and it fixed all of them.

Fireface 800, Fireface UFX, Egnater Rebel 30.
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Old 02-05-2020, 07:34 AM   #5
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Searching within both Nichcon and Panasonic, the highest temp rating I can get which also has a rating of 10,000 hours is 125 deg. C. The original caps are 105 deg. C max. I want to make the new caps last as long as possible, of course, so choosing 10,000 hours with 125 deg C max, vs. 2,000 hours with 150 deg. C seems best.

I don't know which brands are the best, aside from your recommendations and the Tom's Hardware list. Those brands listed are also under the "most popular" on Mouser's site, which is reassuring.
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Old 02-05-2020, 07:42 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeroephonics View Post
Searching within both Nichcon and Panasonic, the highest temp rating I can get which also has a rating of 10,000 hours is 125 deg. C. The original caps are 105 deg. C max. I want to make the new caps last as long as possible, of course, so choosing 10,000 hours with 125 deg C max, vs. 2,000 hours with 150 deg. C seems best.
It's possible I was conflating 105 with 150, can't remember without looking.

Quote:
I don't know which brands are the best, aside from your recommendations and the Tom's Hardware list. Those brands listed are also under the "most popular" on Mouser's site, which is reassuring.
Panasonic or Nichicon or one of the other top tier are the good ones historically, and no need to worry as long as you get one of those brands with correct values, at minimum the correct voltage, voltage rating can be larger and not hurt anything but not smaller or the run the risk of physically exploding/popping. I'd be curious as to what's there now because manufacturer after manufacturer are cheaping out on caps.

You might make sure the physical size is correct, that's not an electronic difference but a will it fit on the PCB difference. If the dimensions differ but all the values are right, and it still fits, then that's fine.
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Old 02-05-2020, 07:59 AM   #7
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Mouser's "most popular" list of capacitors is:
Nichicon
Panasonic
United Chemi-Con (UCC)
KEMET
Cornell Dubilier

A few other factors I'm not sure about are the following search filters:
- the "product" filters (high freq. caps, high temp. caps, low leakage caps)
I searched with those on.

- ripple current

- ESR (equivalent series resistance)

I'm assuming other characteristics of capacitors should be matched to those on the factory capacitors, such as:
capacitance, voltage rating DC, tolerance, dimensions

I'm new to purchasing capacitors. This will be my first recapping project. The main reason I'm concerned about the finer details is I want to make sure the right monitor behaves as closely to the left (still working) monitor as possible. I don't want to recap the left monitor until it stops functioning, but I'll buy extra capacitors for when that happens.
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Old 02-05-2020, 08:40 AM   #8
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For electrolytics, dimension is usually what you need to match. No fun discovering they don't fit while reassembling. Voltage at least equal. Higher is better, but no need to overdo things. Capacity can be chosen a little higher (+20-50%) for PSU use.

105°C is good. Some switched PSU's might be better off with 125°C, but these tend to be expensive, bigger and not always available. ESR only matters for switched PSU's (as far as audio kit is concerned).

The ripple current is what's measured with the cap used as a filter in a "classic" PSU. As every manufacturer tends to have a somewhat different idea about this measurement, don't give it too much importance.

You might notice differences in sound between the two monitors if you don't recap the other one. And why risk more damage when the caps blow?
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Old 02-05-2020, 09:19 AM   #9
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Thanks for everyone's help!!

Here's what the 2 capacitor's labels say:
DFC (This appears to be an IC part number for Illinois Capacitor, Inc.)
1000uF
16V
105C(m)
CD26L (I can't decipher this. Any ideas?)

Here are some pictures of the board:

2 bulging caps:
https://ibb.co/RBS76cX

From the side:
https://ibb.co/gDwXVsQ

2 identical caps to the right (hopefully OK):
https://ibb.co/93BCVpg

Some components on the top side. Note the browning on the right resistor:
https://ibb.co/d7zYcr4

The full analog mainboard. 2 bulging caps directly south of the 2 huge caps:
https://ibb.co/DpRP304
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Old 02-05-2020, 10:37 AM   #10
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That's a lot of electrolytics to replace if you replace them all. I was going to say there may be other functions going on other than filtering such as the crossover etc. however, all those electros connected to those big fat traces must be there for higher voltage/current and will be suspect for current of future failure. Well, those x-over ones could also need more current to so same difference.

Meaning, probably best to replace them all in both speakers but that is a bit of work. I see they are the cheapos and lasted just long enough to be somewhat maybe "fair" but my gripe is I'd happily pay the cost of good caps at purchase time for the longevity.

As far as size, the wrong physical size is OK IF they still fit. When I replaced in my UFX, a few of the replacements were taller but I had measured the the clearance before ordering. I'm mentioning because exact sizes of particular values can sometimes be a pain to find. In my Egnator amp that was not the case, they were the type that snapped in, then solder, and no clearance, so only the original size would fit.

All that said, just get the values correct and the physical size that will fit and you are good to go. Once those variables are covered there really isn't much other spec to worry about, mostly because A) it's a power supply and B) caps often can stand 10-20% tolerance. That said try to get the lower tolerance but not extra super critical for smoothing in PSU if it is relatively close.

On the resistor, it probably still works, that's a 1 or 2 watter IIRC but it wouldn't hurt to replace since it could have gotten hot enough that its resistance value has changed. It got hot due to the bad cap leaking current and basically slowly shorting the current to ground.
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Old 02-28-2020, 07:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeroephonics View Post
Thanks for everyone's help!!

Here's what the 2 capacitor's labels say:
DFC (This appears to be an IC part number for Illinois Capacitor, Inc.)
1000uF
16V
105C(m)
CD26L (I can't decipher this. Any ideas?)
So, here are requirements for selecting a replacement part.

you need a new cap with the same (or smaller) physical size. It needs to have the same lead configuration:
axial: there is a wire on each end. Or
radial: both wires come out of the same end.

16V is the voltage rating. The new one must have 16V or higher. I've seen studies showing higher voltage rating = longer life, FWIW. (In my prior job in aerospace electronics design, we were required to pick caps with voltage ratings 2x the expected voltage, because this stuff needs to last 50-75 years.)

1000uF is the capacitance rating. The new one must have 1000uF or higher. But don't go crazy here... Increasing this by too much can blow up up other parts. When the device is turned on there is an in-rush current that builds up a charge on the the capacitor. That current level is determined, in part, by the capacitance rating. So it's probably best to not put in one with a bigger value.

The 105C is the temperature rating for the part. 105C is the highest commonly available temperature rating. Make sure the new part has the same rating.

Before removing the old part, take 5 or 10 photos. This is a polarized part (it has a positive lead and a negative lead). The new one MUST be installed with the ssme polarity, otherwise it can burn up, explode and/or cause other damage elsewhere. Double and triple check this before applying power.

I hope this info helps you.

One last note: Caps like this generally have at least one lead soldered to a ground plane (a layer of the circuit board that is mostly solid copper). It can be very difficult to remove the old part if you don't have access to proper soldering gear. Usually a low wattage pencil-style iron won't do the job. One workaround is to bake the board at 180F (around 90C) for a half hour or so before trying to remove the old part. Then, while it's still hot, try to unsolder the old part. It is very easy to damage the board so it's not repairable; be careful about how much force you use pulling out the old part. Ig you have trouble with it, find an electronics shop to do the work.
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Old 02-28-2020, 07:59 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philbo King View Post
16V is the voltage rating. The new one must have 16V or higher. I've seen studies showing higher voltage rating = longer life, FWIW. (In my prior job in aerospace electronics design, we were required to pick caps with voltage ratings 2x the expected voltage, because this stuff needs to last 50-75 years.)
The doubling the voltage rating rule is also extra wiggle room to keep electrolytics from exploding - so that would in addition to your point.
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Old 02-28-2020, 08:04 AM   #13
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Karbo:
Exactly right. They did extensive studies on what parts die, and why, and found caps to be among the most likely parts to fail.
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Old 02-28-2020, 08:10 AM   #14
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Thanks for the help, guys! I actually spoke with a JBL technician for about 45 minutes about the problem. He was SUPER helpful! He opened up the schematic for the PCB and gave me a complete listing of every capacitor to replace, with all uF and voltage specs.

He also owns 5 of these along with their subwoofer at his home, so he knows how frustrating it is to have one of them fail. I feel sorry for him, knowing he's got to replace capacitors for 5 of them, and quite possibly the subwoofer's capacitors. He also wrote the technical manual for the LSR4326, which shows a breakdown of each part and its part number.

I went on Mouser and Digikey and bought some Nichicon capacitors of the exact same uF, voltage, max temp rating, height and width. I'll probably install them this weekend.
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Old 02-28-2020, 09:58 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philbo King View Post
Karbo:
Exactly right. They did extensive studies on what parts die, and why, and found caps to be among the most likely parts to fail.
The multiple pieces of gear I've repaired over the last few years by replacing caps is a testament to that!
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Old 03-01-2020, 01:06 PM   #16
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This is why the REAPER forum is the pwnerer
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Old 03-01-2020, 08:12 PM   #17
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I just replaced the capacitors on the power supply's PCB and it works perfectly again! Even the EQ, solo, dim, volume, etc. work. I didn't check the RMC because I don't use it, but I suspect it works fine. I've detailed below exactly which capacitors I bought to repair the unit.

I called JBL's technical support and their technician, Everett, was VERY helpful. He read through the power supply schematic and gave me the following information for a complete PSU capacitor replacement:

The information below is, in order, the capacitor ID on the PCB, capacitance in microfarads (uF), maximum voltage (V), diameter, height, lead spacing (all in mm) and maximum operating temperature (C(m)). There are 4 types of capacitors for this job.

I purchased Nichicon and Panasonic capacitors, as I heard they are some of the best. Only time will tell.

https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...6CT-ND/6109504
C56 10uF 50V 5mm 10mm 5mm 105C(m)
C57 10uF 50V 5mm 10mm 5mm 105C(m)
C58 10uF 50V 5mm 10mm 5mm 105C(m)
C59 10uF 50V 5mm 10mm 5mm 105C(m)

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...ZL%252Bw%3D%3D
C60 1000uF 16V 10mm 15mm 5mm 105C(m)

https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...660-ND/2540834
C76 5600uF 50V 30mm 30mm 10mm 105C(m)
C77 5600uF 50V 30mm 30mm 10mm 105C(m)

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...ZL%252Bw%3D%3D
C82 1000uF 16V 10mm 15mm 5mm 105C(m)
C83 1000uF 16V 10mm 15mm 5mm 105C(m)
Note: C82 and C83 are the same type as C60.

https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...3130-ND/813864
C93 470uF 35V 10mm 20mm 5mm +85C(m)
C96 470uF 35V 10mm 20mm 5mm +85C(m)

C82 & C83 were both bulging on my unit. C83 was leaking a bit of electrolyte, so it had definitely failed. All others appeared OK visually but I decided to replace them all just in case. By the way, this is the first major electronics repair I have ever attempted. I'm SO happy I got it to work again! Good luck to anyone else who needs to get their LSR4326/4328 fixed!

- Mike
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Old 03-01-2020, 08:34 PM   #18
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Great news, great to hear!
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Old 03-01-2020, 11:59 PM   #19
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By the way, here's the guy who spoke with me on the phone and gave me the above capacitor numbers and specifications for the recap job:
https://pro.harman.com/insights/harm...everett-watts/

He was really helpful and knows his stuff!
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Old 03-12-2020, 09:41 PM   #20
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Glad to hear you got it going again. Good job!
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