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Old 02-11-2024, 04:08 PM   #1
vanceen
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Default Envelope Manager - Not Working As Expected?

I just installed v. 7.11, and I saw Jon's video about the Envelope Manager.

It's very cool indeed, but it doesn't seem to be working for me exactly as the video and the 7.10 User Guide says it should.

Everything's fine for single tracks. I select a single track, and I see the Track Envelopes and the inserted effect(s) in the Envelope Manager with all its parameters.

Jon's video and the User Guide says that if I select multiple tracks, two things should happen. First, the Context box in the Envelope Manager should allow me to select any of the named tracks, or all of them. Second, if all of them are selected, the effects on all those tracks should appear on the grid within the Envelope Manager.

That doesn't happen for me. The Context box only has "Selected tracks" or "Selected item active takes". And the grid shows no inserted effects at all.

I must be missing something. Can anyone comment?
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Old 02-11-2024, 05:50 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by vanceen View Post
Jon's video and the User Guide says that if I select multiple tracks, two things should happen. First, the Context box in the Envelope Manager should allow me to select any of the named tracks, or all of them. Second, if all of them are selected, the effects on all those tracks should appear on the grid within the Envelope Manager.
I don't think I explicitly said in the User Guide that the Envelope Manager will display a drop down list of selected tracks. If I give that impression I apologise.

I'm sorry for any ambiguity or confusion in the User Guide, I'll look at rephrasing that section to make it more clear. No, the Envelope Manager will not display a list of selected tracks. What you are seeing is the correct behaviour.

Yes, you can select any one track to work on with the EM open, by selecting only that track in the track control panel. If you then want to work with, say all three tracks again, select those three in the track panel and they will be available to work on as a group in the EM (eg add Volume envelope to all three). Select a different single track in the TCP and the EM will then work with that track ... and so on.

Again, apologies if my wording is ambiguous and doesn't make this clear.

I'll be rewording this section hopefully to remove any ambiguity. Thanks for your input!
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Old 02-11-2024, 07:28 PM   #3
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PS I'm not sure which video you're referring to, but this one makes it pretty clear and might help you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uV7C8M3RGE
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Old 02-11-2024, 08:05 PM   #4
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I certainly didn't find the guide to be amiguous or in any other way at fault. The guide was very clear, and my assumption was that the issue was caused at my end.

I've always found the User Guides to be well organized, just comprehensive enough, and very clear.




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Originally Posted by nicholas View Post
I don't think I explicitly said in the User Guide that the Envelope Manager will display a drop down list of selected tracks. If I give that impression I apologise.

I'm sorry for any ambiguity or confusion in the User Guide, I'll look at rephrasing that section to make it more clear. No, the Envelope Manager will not display a list of selected tracks. What you are seeing is the correct behaviour.

Yes, you can select any one track to work on with the EM open, by selecting only that track in the track control panel. If you then want to work with, say all three tracks again, select those three in the track panel and they will be available to work on as a group in the EM (eg add Volume envelope to all three). Select a different single track in the TCP and the EM will then work with that track ... and so on.

Again, apologies if my wording is ambiguous and doesn't make this clear.

I'll be rewording this section hopefully to remove any ambiguity. Thanks for your input!
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Old 02-12-2024, 07:17 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by nicholas View Post
PS I'm not sure which video you're referring to, but this one makes it pretty clear and might help you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uV7C8M3RGE
Yes, that's the video I watched. At 3:55 he starts talking about multiple tracks, though he does say "if all the effects parameters are the same". But I don't see this, even if I have the identical effect in both tracks".

On page 356 of the 7.10 User's Guide (section 18.13.1) , a picture shows the Selection box showing as options "Selected tracks", "Selected item active takes", AND "Vox1", which is the selected track in the example. Also, the fourth bullet point in that section says:

"If you have multiple tracks selected with the Selected tracks option enabled, then your options will be applied to all tracks in the selection. For example, if you have three tracks selected and make Volume and Pan active and visible then Volume and Pan envelopes, active and visible, will be added to all three tracks."

But I don't see how to do this. As I said before and showed in my attachment, when I have multiple tracks selected with effects (same or different), the Envelope Manager show no inserted effects.

I still have no clue why I'm not seeing the option to see effects from multiple tracks in the Envelope Manager. If I'm reading this wrong or making some other mistake, I'd be happy to know!
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Old 02-12-2024, 11:19 AM   #6
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Perhaps I've got this wrong, and it's only the track envelope settings that apply when multiple tracks are selected?

Still, in the referenced video by Jon, I'm sure he was getting inserted effects from multiple selected tracks to show up in Envelope Manager, and that it was possible to edit them together so long as the same parameters applied to all the effects.

And I'm also certain that the User Guide shows a named selected track appearing in the Selection box in addition to the two standard selections for "Selected tracks" and "Selected active item takes". This is probably not terribly important, but I'm curious as to why I'm getting different behavior.

Anybody?
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Old 02-12-2024, 01:31 PM   #7
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I also only have the two pull down options. I can e.g. select a param for my ReaEQ on each track and then see a trim/read envelope for those selected tracks.

I guess you are seeing this behaviour, but expect something different?

dB
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Old 02-12-2024, 02:19 PM   #8
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vanceen:

Please see the attached screenshot.

I have selected two tracks (5 and 6, but these were chosen at random, it could be any two or more). Both these tracks include ReaEQ in their FX chain. Within the Envelope Manager's Name column I have clicked on the litle boxes (far left) to ensure that all parameters are visible.

I opened the envelope manager, chose Selected tracks as the context and All envelopes.

Within the EM, I have clicked in the Active column for Volume and ReaEQ Gain-Low shelf. Automation mode is Trim/Read.

Notice that this has added these two envelopes to both tracks in the selection.

I hope this helps. Try replicating these exact steps.
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Old 02-12-2024, 03:04 PM   #9
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@nicolas ... this is also what I did ... and yes, the envelopes for the ReaEQ parameters I selected appeared for all selected tracks.

Does the OP want something different?

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Old 02-12-2024, 04:03 PM   #10
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@nicolas ... this is also what I did ... and yes, the envelopes for the ReaEQ parameters I selected appeared for all selected tracks.

Does the OP want something different?

dB
I think he is saying that he is getting track envelopes (Volume, Pan, etc) in the envelope manager but not FX parameter envelopes.

I'm not sure what he's doing exactly (possibly adding FX envelopes via an individual track's FX Chain window rather than the envelope manager?) but it appears he is not getting this.
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Old 02-12-2024, 06:07 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanceen View Post
And I'm also certain that the User Guide shows a named selected track appearing in the Selection box in addition to the two standard selections for "Selected tracks" and "Selected active item takes". This is probably not terribly important, but I'm curious as to why I'm getting different behavior.

Anybody?
If you select the tracks in the track panel and then open the Envelope Manager from one of the track's Trim (Automation) buttons, then that track name and number will appear on the drop down (as shown in the User Guide). You can if you wish select (from the menu,) just that one track to work with.

If you open it from the View menu, no individual track will be listed.

I should add a note to this effect for the next release. Thanks for the question.
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Old 02-12-2024, 08:43 PM   #12
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Thanks all for the replies. I fear I haven't been too clear.

I still am not seeing what I understand to be described in the video and User's Guide, and I'm still working with it.

However, I've made some progress. Using instances of IK Multimedia's Fairchild compressor instead of the Fabfilter plugins I first used, I found that the plugins did indeed show up in the Envelope Manager when multiple tracks were selected. I tried one or two other plugins, and they also appeared with multiple track selection. It looks as if the Fabfilter plugins don't work with this feature, which is disappointing if it's true.

What I'm hoping to do, and what I perhaps mistakenly thought I could do with Envelope Manager, was to control plugins on selected tracks simultaneously, in sync with each other. I know this can be accomplished by copying and pasting the automation, but I had hoped this would be a more direct approach.
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Old 02-12-2024, 08:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholas View Post
If you select the tracks in the track panel and then open the Envelope Manager from one of the track's Trim (Automation) buttons, then that track name and number will appear on the drop down (as shown in the User Guide). You can if you wish select (from the menu,) just that one track to work with.

If you open it from the View menu, no individual track will be listed.

I should add a note to this effect for the next release. Thanks for the question.
Thanks for that!
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Old 02-12-2024, 09:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanceen View Post
I still am not seeing what I understand to be described in the video and User's Guide, and I'm still working with it.
.....
What I'm hoping to do, and what I perhaps mistakenly thought I could do with Envelope Manager, was to control plugins on selected tracks simultaneously, in sync with each other. I know this can be accomplished by copying and pasting the automation, but I had hoped this would be a more direct approach.
I still can't find where in the User Guide I say this can be done, but if you'd care to quote me the EXACT passage verbatim I'll fix it as a priotity. Thanks!
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Old 02-13-2024, 12:59 AM   #15
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Quote:
Second, if all of them are selected, the effects on all those tracks should appear on the grid within the Envelope Manager.
100% sure I said they only show if the fx are the same. I probably could have been clearer about that, I also expected to see all and stumbled in the explanation. Mostly I wanted to move on to the next thing.
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Old 02-13-2024, 03:44 AM   #16
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100% sure I said they only show if the fx are the same. I probably could have been clearer about that...
It sounded pretty clear to me .....
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Old 02-13-2024, 05:51 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanceen View Post
Thanks all for the replies. I fear I haven't been too clear.

I still am not seeing what I understand to be described in the video and User's Guide, and I'm still working with it.

However, I've made some progress. Using instances of IK Multimedia's Fairchild compressor instead of the Fabfilter plugins I first used, I found that the plugins did indeed show up in the Envelope Manager when multiple tracks were selected. I tried one or two other plugins, and they also appeared with multiple track selection. It looks as if the Fabfilter plugins don't work with this feature, which is disappointing if it's true.

What I'm hoping to do, and what I perhaps mistakenly thought I could do with Envelope Manager, was to control plugins on selected tracks simultaneously, in sync with each other. I know this can be accomplished by copying and pasting the automation, but I had hoped this would be a more direct approach.
If you're using Pro-Q (or timeless also probably) the parameters are probably not the same because they are created as you add more bands so each bands on each instance of pro q might not be controlled by the same parameter.
Maybe if you use a preset as a starting point it would work.
That's probably why it doesn't work as you'd expect and the IK plugin does work, because it has fixed parameters.
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Old 02-13-2024, 02:21 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by fourdogslong View Post
If you're using Pro-Q (or timeless also probably) the parameters are probably not the same because they are created as you add more bands so each bands on each instance of pro q might not be controlled by the same parameter.
Maybe if you use a preset as a starting point it would work.
That's probably why it doesn't work as you'd expect and the IK plugin does work, because it has fixed parameters.
Thanks. I also tried Pro-C and Pro-MB, with the same result.
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Old 02-13-2024, 02:32 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholas View Post
I still can't find where in the User Guide I say this can be done, but if you'd care to quote me the EXACT passage verbatim I'll fix it as a priotity. Thanks!
Thanks Nicholas. The User Guide absolutely does not say that you can sync effects in multiple tracks via the Envelope Manager. (section 18.13 as referenced above). I'm sorry if I implied that it does. I mistakenly assumed that was the purpose of seeing effects in multiple tracks.

The only discrepancy I can report is that the selected named tracks don't show up in the Selection box,as Dr Bob also reported below. This is not a huge deal in itself, I just thought (apparently mistakenly) that it was an obstacle to getting the function I was looking for (also mistakenly).

EpicSounds, you certainly did say that the parameters had to all be the same. Great video, as always.

Sorry for the confusion I caused.
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Old 02-13-2024, 05:40 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanceen View Post
The only discrepancy I can report is that the selected named tracks don't show up in the Selection box,as Dr Bob also reported below. This is not a huge deal in itself, I just thought (apparently mistakenly) that it was an obstacle to getting the function I was looking for (also mistakenly).
Thanks. My post above, I believe, addresses this
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...9&postcount=11

I've also updated the User Guide with this information. You can download it here:
https://www.reaper.fm/userguide.php

Thanks again for drawing this to my attention.
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