Old 07-01-2013, 04:32 PM   #121
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Great find. Anyone else have more like this? I thought DawBench had a win 7 versus 8 test but couldn't see it there.
I can't find anything with performance tests but a quick google of Windows 7 vrs Windows 8 shows that the general PC community is not taking a liking to Windows 8. Heh heh, even rates it down with Vista in a few cases.

I also saw mention of a Windows 8.2. I really hate being on the fence with this, Win-7 or Win-8, for my new computer.

I didn't read through all of the threads but the few I did read basically had nothing good to say about Win-8 as far as being better.
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Old 07-01-2013, 04:50 PM   #122
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I didn't read through all of the threads but the few I did read basically had nothing good to say about Win-8 as far as being better.
Find whatever YOU like and use that. I'd personally stay away from the mass confusion that is Interweb chatter. Use what works for you.

The only other thing I'll add is the world is constantly changing and its not always a good idea to be the Japanese soldier who thinks the war is still on 40 years after it is over. This is somewhat age dependent, if you're 75 not so much, if your 25 it's in one's interest to stay current with technology even when you don't like it.
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Old 07-01-2013, 05:07 PM   #123
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Thanks for that, l0calh05t, am reading it over now.
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Old 07-01-2013, 08:39 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by l0calh05t View Post
Dunno if anyone posted this link before, but did you have a look at this:

http://blog.cakewalk.com/windows-8-a...-applications/
Well I finally found time to finish that article and based on that, Windows-8 gets a big thumbs up. Thanks l0calh05t.

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This is somewhat age dependent, if you're 75 not so much, if your 25 it's in one's interest to stay current with technology even when you don't like it.
Heh heh, well my new avatar is a picture taken last night with my grand daughter Zoe. It was my 70th birthday but I'm
still trying to hang in there Karbo.
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Old 07-01-2013, 09:23 PM   #125
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WOW! For those of you pressed for time, just read the Summary at the bottom of the SONAR Benchmark tests. It's all good, but here's some hot info -- much lower system calls and kernel use (for those of you familiar with those pesky ISR/DPC problems on some machines):

'System calls per second

An 85% reduction in system calls was observed under Windows 8 in the input monitoring case and more moderate gains in the other cases. Fewer system calls translate to improved CPU load as well as fewer user mode to kernel transitions which mean fewer audio glitches.

'Kernel use

25 – 50% reduction in kernel use can be observed in some of the tests with Win8. Lower kernel use results in fewer audio glitches since it leaves more headroom for audio drivers.'


Reaper Devs (or anyone for that matter), would anyone be able to do a little testing using REAPER? Maybe mirror some of the testing done in the linked document/blog?
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:00 AM   #126
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Dern! Tod, you are almost a year older than me! (6/6/44)

I feel YOUNG again! Yaaay!
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:52 AM   #127
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Tod & ivansc - Hate to have to join this party, but it's good to see a couple of older blokes around here. Can't remember my birthdate, but there's a 45 in there somewhere... And an XP in my OS, at least for now.
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:53 AM   #128
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This may be purely my own opinion, but I think the Cakewalk example is sort of special case. I have not been able to see performance difference with Reaper between W7 & W8. I have read that Cubase is actually performing much worse on W8.

I had to remove W8 from my daw because of the very nasty bug I reported earlier:

If anyone who has W8 is interested in to test, please try the following:
- Open an empty project, make sure to use ASIO drivers.
- Insert (any) synthmaker plugin or two into a track.
- Copy that track plenty of times (sometimes 100-200 may be necessary)
- Make Reaper lose focus, so that audio device closes. When you bring it back do you get an ASIO error?
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:55 AM   #129
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I think the Win 8 is the best Microsoft OS so far.
Has any of there previous OS'es been steady before SP 1, 2 or 3?
Is there any big changes under the hood between Win 7 and 8?
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Old 07-02-2013, 04:31 AM   #130
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I just started a conversation with Focusrite support regarding the USB1.1 issues with intel i-series cpu, which coincidentally reared its ugly head in my case when I plugged my Saffire6 USB1.1. interface into my new i5 lappy.
At first I wqas happy to blame win8 but in this case it would appear to be a hardware thang.

I hope.

Since Focusrite changed from USB1 to USB 2 right after I bought my unit, I am hoping there is a way to upgrade mine without having to buy another interface.

Predictably, it is about 18 months old and presumably out of warranty, even though the problem existed BEFORE it was a year old. Who knew?
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Old 07-02-2013, 04:37 AM   #131
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Does this happen with any other plugins? Synthmaker is known in the past for a few major bugs so this one is hopefully not a reaper/win 8 combination right?

As for performance wise. If it's the same performance then all is good as I have a lot of touch screens that could benefit here (having got a test version of win 8 half done on another boot but not had time to test it yet). I have had that nasty bug with chkdsk like you had though. Very annoying. Hoping that's gone in win 8.1

Any other positive win 8 stories? something to give us hope! lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anomaly View Post
This may be purely my own opinion, but I think the Cakewalk example is sort of special case. I have not been able to see performance difference with Reaper between W7 & W8. I have read that Cubase is actually performing much worse on W8.

I had to remove W8 from my daw because of the very nasty bug I reported earlier:

If anyone who has W8 is interested in to test, please try the following:
- Open an empty project, make sure to use ASIO drivers.
- Insert (any) synthmaker plugin or two into a track.
- Copy that track plenty of times (sometimes 100-200 may be necessary)
- Make Reaper lose focus, so that audio device closes. When you bring it back do you get an ASIO error?
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Old 07-02-2013, 06:21 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Anomaly View Post
This may be purely my own opinion, but I think the Cakewalk example is sort of special case. I have not been able to see performance difference with Reaper between W7 & W8. I have read that Cubase is actually performing much worse on W8.

I had to remove W8 from my daw because of the very nasty bug I reported earlier:

If anyone who has W8 is interested in to test, please try the following:
- Open an empty project, make sure to use ASIO drivers.
- Insert (any) synthmaker plugin or two into a track.
- Copy that track plenty of times (sometimes 100-200 may be necessary)
- Make Reaper lose focus, so that audio device closes. When you bring it back do you get an ASIO error?
For one, many systems (even before Windows 8) have issues with synthmaker and synthedit plugins. Secondly, if I need to copy a track with the same plugins maybe 200 times to experience this "nasty bug", how serious is this really? I am not trying to be a pain in the butt, but any OS will have a "nasty bug" or 2 if we want to do silly tests like this. If you are having issues while doing actual audio work, then that is something to trouble-shoot and address, for sure.
Also, when Reaper loses focus, the audio device does not HAVE to close, that is a setting in preferences. Have you done your same test with the preferences set to not close the audio device when Reaper loses focus?
I use Windows 8 and immediately noticed performance boosts when I upgraded (I did not even do a fresh install, I did an in-place upgrade from 7). I did not do benchmark tests, but I have lighter CPU loads and less glitches in general running huge projects that had given me small problems before the upgrade. So I can not agree with the assertions that 8 is problematic for audio at all.
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Old 07-02-2013, 06:21 AM   #133
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Does this happen with any other plugins? Synthmaker is known in the past for a few major bugs so this one is hopefully not a reaper/win 8 combination right?
All synthmaker and synthedit plugins trigger this error 100%. Also independence free does it. There may be others just waiting to be confirmed.

I understand that SE / SM plugins can cause trouble. But while with Win7 there was occasional crashes, with Win8 it somehow corrupts ASIO process itself and thus the project turns completely non-workable. This only happens with Reaper. Other hosts seems to be unaffected.
It would be very helpful to know if this happens with other audio hardware too, or it's only related to RME HDSP9632.
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Old 07-02-2013, 08:01 AM   #134
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All synthmaker and synthedit plugins trigger this error 100%. Also independence free does it. There may be others just waiting to be confirmed.

I understand that SE / SM plugins can cause trouble. But while with Win7 there was occasional crashes, with Win8 it somehow corrupts ASIO process itself and thus the project turns completely non-workable. This only happens with Reaper. Other hosts seems to be unaffected.
It would be very helpful to know if this happens with other audio hardware too, or it's only related to RME HDSP9632.
Reading the description, I'd think Win8 exposes a specific synthmaker issue quicker than Win7 does. In other words I'm sure the issue is there in both OSs but that's just my opinion based on what I'm seeing here. I know that doesn't help you, just commenting on the possibility.
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:30 PM   #135
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There is no antivirus program in W8 necessary,

http://conversation.which.co.uk/tech...ble-microsoft/
Anyone have any more info about this, if Win-8 doesn't need anti-virus software that's certainly a plus.
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:27 PM   #136
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Anyone have any more info about this, if Win-8 doesn't need anti-virus software that's certainly a plus.
Its incorrect or rather misinterpreted. Security as a whole isn't a single "thing"... built-in firewall, malicious software removal tool, UAC, bitlocker among others are handled very well by the OS. That however, does not mean no need for Antivirus.

The wording gotcha here is that many AV products try to include a suite of security products like the above beyond the AV, not just AV... Endpoint protection (AKA firewall and entry points for AV in addition to scanning for viruses). In other words Win8 is very good at covering most of those additional needs but that doesn't include virus protection real-time or otherwise.
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Old 07-02-2013, 02:09 PM   #137
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For one, many systems (even before Windows 8) have issues with synthmaker and synthedit plugins. Secondly, if I need to copy a track with the same plugins maybe 200 times to experience this "nasty bug", how serious is this really?
In my real projects I may have 10-20 of these plugins that cause the error. They are mixed with "good" plugins that doesn't cause any problems. It seems that when project memory usage increases, less "bad" plugins are needed to trigger the error. The reason I asked to use 100-200 instances is because that amount triggers the error 100% in my system. It's the easiest way to reproduce it. This error does not happen with Win7.

In other words, I'm experiencing this ASIO error with my real projects for the reasons I explained above and thus it is very serious. I can't work with my projects.

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Originally Posted by richie43 View Post
Also, when Reaper loses focus, the audio device does not HAVE to close, that is a setting in preferences. Have you done your same test with the preferences set to not close the audio device when Reaper loses focus?
I thought this too. But unfortunately it won't help. When you save your project, Reaper closes the audio device regardless of the preferences. And BANG your ASIO is hosed again.

Cheers

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Old 07-02-2013, 02:09 PM   #138
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Its incorrect or rather misinterpreted. Security as a whole isn't a single "thing"... built-in firewall, malicious software removal tool, UAC, bitlocker among others are handled very well by the OS. That however, does not mean no need for Antivirus.

The wording gotcha here is that many AV products try to include a suite of security products like the above beyond the AV, not just AV... Endpoint protection (AKA firewall and entry points for AV in addition to scanning for viruses). In other words Win8 is very good at covering most of those additional needs but that doesn't include virus protection real-time or otherwise.
Thanks Karbo, I really don't know much about antivirus stuff because all my studio computers never had it, simply because they were never connected to the web.

However, in my retirement I'm enjoying the web to some degree, the Reaper forum (along with a few others) and trying to keep up with developments. So I'm probably going to want my new computer on the web (heaven forbid).
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Old 07-03-2013, 07:21 AM   #139
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Find whatever YOU like and use that. I'd personally stay away from the mass confusion that is Interweb chatter. Use what works for you.
Good advice.

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The only other thing I'll add is the world is constantly changing and its not always a good idea to be the Japanese soldier who thinks the war is still on 40 years after it is over. This is somewhat age dependent, if you're 75 not so much, if your 25 it's in one's interest to stay current with technology even when you don't like it.
Then you offer up a little "Interweb chatter"? I bet the Microsoft stooges just love this line of thought.

I don't agree. We shouldn't go blindly down technological paths for the sake of technology itself. If it isn't useful, then don't follow. New technology either works for you or it doesn't...and it's up to consumers, not corporations, to say yay or nay, and thereby influencing it's course. Technological "innovations" are often more about devising marketing impetus, not creating something useful. W8 is just another example of a corporation telling us we need shit we don't. If you like it, then good on you. Personally, I have no use for it.

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Old 07-03-2013, 08:13 AM   #140
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I don't agree. We shouldn't go blindly down technological paths for the sake of technology itself.
That's not what I said. I'm talking about being aware and knowing the technology so you can exploit it to your advantage, survive etc. (actually its not about technology itself per se; notice how I said the world is changing constantly as it always has).

One can continue to ride a horse & buggy and say cars suck, that's absolutely cool but at some point they'll be "right" yet pathetically behind. This new reading and writing invention is for sheeple; beware!

It's not about the sake of technology itself, its about survival and yes one has every right to keep their head in the technological sand but you're interpreting or rather creating spin that isn't there.
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Old 07-04-2013, 06:09 AM   #141
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UPDATE:

I have been nosing around on various fora, including the MS one and it is beginning to look like this IS a MS problem (USB legacy stuff) and has been sloshing around unresolved and ignored by them since Win7 put in an appearance.

There are times when I wish I could afford a nice new Macbook Pro... or a reliable audio/MIDI setup for multitrack work that runs natively under Linux.

*sigh*
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Old 07-04-2013, 06:28 AM   #142
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UPDATE:

I have been nosing around on various fora, including the MS one and it is beginning to look like this IS a MS problem (USB legacy stuff) and has been sloshing around unresolved and ignored by them since Win7 put in an appearance.

There are times when I wish I could afford a nice new Macbook Pro... or a reliable audio/MIDI setup for multitrack work that runs natively under Linux.

*sigh*
Sorry what is "this"? I'm not sure I understand which issue you are speaking of but could have missed something. There is the Firewire legacy thing but that isn't USB related and some vendors have been able to repro and fix in their drivers. That doesn't make it a non-MS issue just noting that I'm not sure which thing you are speaking of.
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Old 07-04-2013, 06:03 PM   #143
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Read my earlier post, Karbo.
I have a problem running my Saffire6 (USB1.1) on BOTH my i5 based laptops, one Acer running win 8 64bit and the other Asus running Win7 64bit.

According to my research there has been a known compatibility issue with USB abd USB 1.1 since Win7 was introduced, centering around issues like *having* to be connected to a root hub to work. Apparently Intel I series cpu based computers are more prone to this.

The initial problem was posted on MS windows support forum in 2011. or possibly earlier.

My symptoms are that on the i5 32120-M machine I cannot get Reaper to run at all with the saffire buffer set at anything below 144.
Previously on my core duo running win7 pro 64bit I could always use 64 buffer and often 32 for smaller projects.
And it would appear that MS have been hiding their collective head in the sand hoping this will go away, as it only seems to affect USB and USB1.1 not UBS2.
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Old 07-04-2013, 06:20 PM   #144
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Read my earlier post, Karbo.
Sorry, I read the forum constantly and closely including this thread but I didn't really feel like searching through 140+ posts this morning. I just wanted to know provided it was easy enough to remind me in case there were something I knew that would help.

Quote:
I have a problem running my Saffire6 (USB1.1) on BOTH my i5 based laptops, one Acer running win 8 64bit and the other Asus running Win7 64bit.
OK, I unfortunately would expect USB 1.1 (while agreeing it may be a problem with the OS) to slowly become more and more troublesome because it is a legacy (two full revs back) protocol version. Don't take that wrong, if it exists on the box it should work properly but at the end of the day, the newer protocol with the highest number of people actually still using it is likely going to get the most attention.
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Old 07-05-2013, 01:26 AM   #145
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Yeah - as usual I had foolishly assumed that with the sheer weight of numbers of USB legacy hardware out there and new kit still being sold, MS would at least make a token effort at retaining compatibility.
But there again they wouldn`t be MS if they did that, would they?

So I am now planning on selling the saffire to someone who is NOT using an i-series intel box and buying a Steinberg UR22. Hopefully that will work better.
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