I/O and Send window design

airon · 06-04-2008, 01:00 PM

This design is a good candidate for optimization.

Let's face it, it's convenient for a programmer and not for the user.

The track names are hardly readable. Loud graphical Mute, Phasereverse and Mono/Stereo buttons are slapped in there. The Pre-FX/Post-FX/Post-Fader(Post-Pan) dropdown doesn't fit the box, and neither do the Audio channel or Midi channel routing dropdown descriptions. The slightly tinted background is of almost no visual help.

Inconsistent is a well chosen word for it.

Are any others of the same opinion ? Any ideas to change this ? Or should we just ask Cockos to do that ? Maybe WhiteTie ? Maybe YOU ?

airon · 06-05-2008, 04:52 AM

Did any of you count the number of fonts used in this design ?

At least five for the I/O window.

What are you looking for when you open this window ? I'm asking around now, because I know what I need, but what about you ?

Jack Winter · 06-05-2008, 05:36 AM

I would love to see the ordinary mcp (mixer), morph to take over submixing, be that sends, recieves or hardware outputs. That would even give us metering... Something similar to what totalmix from rme does. Choose another buss than the master and all the faders move to represent the submix sent to that buss. Very convinient, and probably a godsend for the people with a control surface.

Till · 06-05-2008, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Winter

I would love to see the ordinary mcp (mixer), morph to take over submixing, be that sends, recieves or hardware outputs. That would even give us metering... Something similar to what totalmix from rme does. Choose another buss than the master and all the faders move to represent the submix sent to that buss. Very convinient, and probably a godsend for the people with a control surface.

not just for busses, but a mixer for every track - total flexibility (the reaper way). with per-receive fx and dockable track-mixers, this would be top-of-the line for huge projects.

ngarjuna · 06-05-2008, 05:47 AM

What theme are you using Airon, is that the default? I've been using troublemaker v2 and it looks a lot different, a lot less inconsistent.

I don't disagree that your screenshot looks pretty jumbled up. Personally, I probably only use the main sends/rec menu to make or delete a send/receive. Once I have them created, I tend to just launch the particular send or receive I want to adjust from the mixer view, so I'm generally only looking at one track at a time.

I also like Jack's idea of a mixer view, that would indeed be interesting control surface wise. Although I usually use my effects sends 100% wet, thus that whole effect is then metered and channel controllable. But the ability to switch into a control mode where your fader is adjusting the send instead of just the master fader is intriguing.

airon · 06-05-2008, 10:43 AM

The idea of morphing the mixer to have the faders control what you just selected has been stated some time ago. I'm not sure Cockos is that adventurous and would not expect them to make such enormous leaps with the interface. Cool idea though, and I'd defintly like to use such a mixer. Many control surfaces together with the right DAW permit you to flip volume controls of sends, or parameters of plugins down on to the main faders.

My original concern though is to improve the current design, as in my eyes it lacks usability in that it takes the user considerable time to locate specific controls. In other words, the design is a visual failure as it stands now. In my opinion the I/O window needs a redesign to be more than just a reference you'd best wish to avoid having to use, because it's so hard to read.

Tallisman · 06-05-2008, 10:50 AM

i just want to be able to change the send/receive destination via drop down menu, without losing the rest of the configured settings.
so, following the "Send To," the track 8 "BassDrum" would be a dropdown menu listing all tracks... using a nodal menu - thus if a track has more than 1/2, it will be displayed with a [+] to expose 3/4, 5/6, etc...

that is what I want.

.t

airon · 06-05-2008, 11:46 AM

There you go, that's a feature an optimized design should have.

drew · 06-05-2008, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallisman

i just want to be able to change the send/receive destination via drop down menu, without losing the rest of the configured settings.
so, following the "Send To," the track 8 "BassDrum" would be a dropdown menu listing all tracks... using a nodal menu - thus if a track has more than 1/2, it will be displayed with a [+] to expose 3/4, 5/6, etc...

that is what I want.

.t

Uh Huh!!!! Spot on

3mph · 06-06-2008, 03:26 AM

Personly I like Sonars approach to this. My problem with TCP's is that there usually is too much or too little infomation, which depends on what I'm doing. Too much information makes the TCP too cluttered, and too little makes me mouseclicks and distracts me from what I'm focusing on.

In Sonar you can decide what you want to include and where. The TCP-view is build up around different tabs that you can switch between:

So of you're mixing, switch to the "mix" tab and don't worry about anything but parameters relevant for mixing. If you find that there's still too little or much information you can customize each tab:

..and make your adjustments. You can even remove the MSR-buttons (and use a "global" panel that works for selected tracks) and make the ultimate uncluttered track:

I'm not suggesting a rip-off, but a more flexible way of configuring the TCP. Maybe this could too be a little inspiration for people smarter than me so REAPER would end up with a GUI invented by this forums creative masterminds with inspiration from us common people.

Alex Stone · 06-06-2008, 08:02 AM

I'd have to agree with Airon here, it looks a bit cluttered at times, particularly with long names involved.

Perhaps making it a bit wider by default would be a step forward?
(Say 1/3?)

Plus 1 for a facelift.

Alex.

spacelabstudio · 06-06-2008, 10:41 AM

I use right click on the I/O button much more than the left click, since, as you point out, that left click dialog is pretty clunky to use.

I'd never thought of that submix idea in a daw, although I did use to have an RME card so I know what you're talking about. I think that's a pretty cool idea, actually. Maybe a different mode you can switch the mixer into to do that, defaulting to how it is now.

chris

Lawrence · 06-06-2008, 07:11 PM

I like T's idea...

Edited for clarity...

Why not just use another mixer for routing? The send and receive (insert) slots are there already. It would be a popup floating routing screen that looks just like the mixer except the buttons are the buttons from the routing screen... with T's menus. It rolls to show more of each so... cool.

It would be much easier to navigate routings with lots of tracks. Of course the extended part would be permenently shown.

And the fader is the master send so you can mix from there while exploring routings.

xackley · 06-08-2008, 08:55 AM

For start I would like the Receives on the Left where they logically should be.
Leave the Master on the Upper Left, it is special anyway, as it is controls Input and Output

Leave the MIDI Hardware Output right where it is at, as it doesn't change size.

Below the Master and MIDI hardware Output, show the Output(sends) on the right, Input (receives) on left.

Also a routing matrix like the Plugin Pin Connectors matrix for how the channels are routed inside the track. Replace the text "Track Channels" with a button to activate a dialog that displays the channels "1->" to as many as defined on the top, with the "->1","->2",... channels on the Right for destination.

Oh, and an option that Sends/Receives use Track Colors.

airon · 06-10-2008, 07:16 AM

I'll try to create a mockup with all these ideas Xackley. Let's see....

airon · 06-11-2008, 07:55 AM

A feature request was posted here:

http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22155