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Old 07-26-2018, 06:26 AM   #41
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^please no
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Old 07-26-2018, 06:35 AM   #42
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toggle "no"
we all have different uses and choices to make-- i think your underestimating the value people put towards greater graphics and designs-- ie:themes.
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Old 07-26-2018, 12:12 PM   #43
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My first question when seeing this is: What is going where? I don't see any specific indications of what is travling along those red and yellow paths. I only see general indications that audio and control signals are passing from object to object.

The fundamental goal of a routing view is to see and change where a signal is coming from and where it is going to, specifically. Everything else should be secondary.

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Originally Posted by AndreiT View Post
Maybe looking something like Image-Line's Patcher?

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Old 07-26-2018, 06:39 PM   #44
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Quote:
My first question when seeing this is: What is going where?

The fundamental goal of a routing view is to see and change where a signal is coming from and where it is going to, specifically. Everything else should be secondary.

yep- it can still be fun though...so long everything is 'properly' labelled/identified + smart tool tipped.
now the ruler area can also be expanded and collapsed,this could be another fixed area of multi-uses,or tabs...w/e floats.
>>> xtra coupla crackups for track viewings (probably onto deaf ears and blinded eyes ) -->




just badly executed+silly designs/ideas here-could be made very smart imo.
i dunnoez,sighz.
be nice if people were actually showing any interest for the developers to feedback from (even if it seems bizzare or unwanted)
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Old 07-26-2018, 09:03 PM   #45
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yep- it can still be fun though...so long everything is 'properly' labelled/identified + smart tool tipped.
now the ruler area can also be expanded and collapsed,this could be another fixed area of multi-uses,or tabs...w/e floats.
>>> xtra coupla crackups for track viewings (probably onto deaf ears and blinded eyes ) -->




just badly executed+silly designs/ideas here-could be made very smart imo.
i dunnoez,sighz.
be nice if people were actually showing any interest for the developers to feedback from (even if it seems bizzare or unwanted)
Wow is this actually a proposition? Its a completly different DAW... it would not be modern in my opinion and would make thinga so messy and candy looking... all we need is efficiency and Reaper is already awesome. Track wiring should not obscure things like I see in these graphical ideas.
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Old 07-26-2018, 09:24 PM   #46
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some really kool icons or visual animations for plug in+outs would be doper than a droper...
A scifi movie from the 60th ?
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Old 07-27-2018, 03:31 AM   #47
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o
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Old 07-27-2018, 11:03 AM   #48
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anyways-- for >1person< it would make sense to have realtime patching cables for routings @ the tcp or mixer area-- a simplacomplexified track layout would be suffice i suppose considering a lot of users like reaper's 1978 text based approaches which is ok...for 1978
them examples are incredibly poor and not really saying much technically,but to me,the ugliest thumbnail i see is the reaper plugin thumbs when inserted.. :/
both proper coders and ui designers could make a real 5star meal of this-but will they>>? hmm.. i reckon cockos's focus is too widely spreading their attentions-- focusing on many many different areas/aspects loosing sight of freshly featured functions at the costs of fixing older existings functions (which new functions rely on??) -!-
how can 1 build a firm bole or stance,if the roots or ground is unstable or unwell...?
the visual feedback thing is selling a lot more than note pad type docs are now i believe.
i imagine ph cannot really be matched with this anyways--they kinda got it nailed for years-works perfectly well as an inputting or out putting module for reaper right now=bonuses,no complaints.
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Old 07-27-2018, 01:16 PM   #49
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I must disagree and tell you that the pioneers are Steinberg for a big part and although this fact, Reaper is more inovative now so.. Besides graphics and some other details I think Reaper is pretty much the best
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Old 07-27-2018, 01:51 PM   #50
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Graphics are information, the same as text. If that information serves no good purpose over text, there is no benefit in providing it. If there is some benefit in having it, there are other considerations than just having some eye candy. Does it relay somethimg clearly without addimg unnecessary clutter? Is it's presence decreasing performance too much? There is a difference in adding some flash to something that is already highly functional for making it more pleasant to look at vs. adding flash for it's own sake without much consideration for functionality. So in what ways do these mockups increase functionality without having too much negative impact in other areas?
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Old 07-27-2018, 02:14 PM   #51
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@brainwreck- m8,clearly not many users are in the slightest bit interested.inputs or feedback show that.

just take this as a troll post like the rest.
but tbh-reaper is a textdaw,not even at@ it's best atmo..another b.s.o.d. today while editing with it > (bit pissed off actually about this crap) + am sad to be the imaginary troll that told such tales of woe.
ok,so stick with text and get rid of all the themed elements-then see how much more you enjoy the experience of notepad style editing.
i love @ a glance,1 click operation image based stuff--not pages of floating dialogs and cheat sheets.!!
the future has left the building.. lolz.
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Old 08-01-2018, 10:42 PM   #52
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Has anyone had a look at Audulus? http://audulus.com/ It has all the animated cable stuff and very nice graphics. Seems to be quite a hit CPU wise though.
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Old 08-02-2018, 02:48 AM   #53
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Yea Audulus looks slick. I think Reaper would have to switch to vector-based UI for something close to that.
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Old 08-02-2018, 01:13 PM   #54
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The wire diagram is a great start. I already find it highly useful as an illustration of routing. It makes things much more traceable.


I'm sure that work can find more uses, and good grief are people quick to point out good looking and hopefully useful shenanigans once they see this.
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Old 08-03-2018, 05:45 AM   #55
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Quote:
Has anyone had a look at Audulus? http://audulus.com/ It has all the animated cable stuff and very nice graphics. Seems to be quite a hit CPU wise though.

^hmm-yes,just looked and some modern computers are still suffering from the amounts of data on screen: still today for a lot of systems..
vectorizing everything will also have it's cost..soo ummm..what-to-do..?






^this layout looks kinda 'sensible+logical'...>?







^ but this layout just looks a nightmarish mess.. ugly and confusing..>?


cockos have a lot todo with this if they go full throttle on it eh.. icons+images make for more friendly user experiences imo..

users do not really need to know the inner workings of a specific icon,do they. >?
just click+go+be happier,quicker,smarter...
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Old 08-03-2018, 07:46 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bri1 View Post
this layout just looks a nightmarish mess.. ugly and confusing
I decently doubt that there is a way to do a "wire" GUI that for handling routing of large / complex projects provides a better workflow that the menu driven interface Reaper provides right now.

But for new users with small projects, the advantage is obvious due to it's more "intuitive" impression.

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Old 08-03-2018, 08:33 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
I decently doubt that there is a way to do a "wire" GUI that for handling routing of large / complex projects provides a better workflow that the menu driven interface Reaper provides right now.

But for new users with small projects, the advantage is obvious due to it's more "intuitive" impression.

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Old 08-03-2018, 09:12 AM   #58
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i dunno ^ a simple io for upto 64 channels right there in the ruler area seems logical here-even for complex routing.
this could or would get complex with any input fx,item fx or track fx routings..

the way track fx work atmo is in a serial fashion,until reordered--but nobody sees something amiss here? < < : ok.
it's upto cockos what they do and the way they do it-they mow their own lawn,their own way.
point with using programmes is they are all trying to emulate actual analog style recording> some make it look that way,others do not.
i prefere programmes to look like what they are trying to represent=logical + visually pleasing:: as some analog kit is nice to actually look at,feel or touch.
no daw can compensate for that-how ever great the designer/s may be.

much less floating and un_attached windowing please!! this takes attentions from here,to there,back to here=not logical or workflow enhancing.!
rickrackrockeddyon u ravers.
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Old 08-03-2018, 09:17 AM   #59
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this is something like what i would prefer since the beggining, (and an option yo show only selected tracks in TCP relations). Simple, no new panels, in the place where i am usually working/focusing)

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Old 08-04-2018, 11:41 PM   #60
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Added mpl_WiredChain.lua preliminary build to ReaPack. It is per-track wiring view. Any suggestions welcome:

cockosforum - https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=188335
telegram - https://t.me/mplscripts_chat
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Old 08-04-2018, 11:51 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxAsteria View Post
Yea Audulus looks slick. I think Reaper would have to switch to vector-based UI for something close to that.
Well the current track wiring view implementation has all vector elements, not a single PNG in sight.
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Old 08-05-2018, 12:43 AM   #62
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Well the current track wiring view implementation has all vector elements, not a single PNG in sight.
Just sayin....
why must everything simple and elegant be made complicated and bloated?

I never thought of reaper as a "Sim"
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Old 08-05-2018, 01:41 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Well the current track wiring view implementation has all vector elements, not a single PNG in sight.
Well that's interesting. Is there any precedent for vector graphics in Reaper?
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Old 08-05-2018, 01:53 AM   #64
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A number of parts are vectors, like the pin matrix, routing, grouping and rendering matrices. MIDI editor is mostly vectors (minus the left side piano roll and colormap used for coloring events in various ways - the piano roll graphics are totally optional though, if the graphics are not found they fall back to vectors), the background of the arrange view (grid, markers etc) are vectors, if graphics aren't found, even items themselves fall back to just vector rectangles... Hell, the "classic v1.x" theme is mostly vectors with just a handful of graphical elements for buttons and meters...

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Old 08-05-2018, 02:22 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Not_Here View Post
why must everything simple and elegant be made complicated and bloated?
Because it is, as soon as you take a deeper look.
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Old 08-05-2018, 02:29 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpl View Post
Added mpl_WiredChain.lua preliminary build to ReaPack. It is per-track wiring view. Any suggestions welcome:

cockosforum - https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=188335
telegram - https://t.me/mplscripts_chat


Guys, did you check this out? Try disconnecting all wires, then move modules arround, and reconnect them at will. Wouldn't that be amazing to have in Reaper? With ability to save chains as presets? And maybe even to have sub-chains, to make your own 2in/2out blocks out of FX Chains.

At risk of being to bold, but I will say it anyway. I think Justin should employ mpl to develop modular track FX routing for Reaper. Why not? He works hard, and he knows how to do it, and he is doing it anyway (within current Reaper's limitations). Why not make his hard work proper part of Reaper, so that he can get access and adjust internal routing of FX chain on track to full modular?

Reaper's current FX chain has limitations, FX order is dependent on how they are placed on track. For example, you cannot send audio from 5th FX back to 3rd. To make parallel chains, you have to put FX in proper place. It is like connections are fixed, and you have to move modules into proper slots.

Anyway, just thinking out loud...
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Old 08-05-2018, 04:00 AM   #67
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Upon investigating this wiring diagram feature (which I think is brilliant BTW), I had a few suggestions to make but I see others are on the same page as me and have already made those suggestions.

The first thing that jumped out at me is the right to left flow rather than the much more logical left to right flow. Almost everything I have ever worked on in electronics has a top to bottom and left to right workflow (schematic diagrams particularly). The same is true for hardware audio engineering. Inputs on left, outputs on right. It's pretty much an expected industry standard.

Almost every mixing console in existence has top to bottom and left to right workflow. Most channel strips start with gain first, then EQ and sends, then assignments, pan, mute, solo and fade.
Input channels are left to right, then subgroups and then masters. Even in large format consoles where the master section is in the middle, the subgroups are on the left of the masters.

Slightly off topic, but if REAPER had folders arranged so child tracks were on top (in TCP) and on the left (in MCP) of the parent, I'd probably use them much more often.

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Old 08-05-2018, 04:15 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by sonicowl View Post
you cannot send audio from 5th FX back to 3rd.
In most cases that in fact technically makes a lot of sense, as the PDC calculation breaks down on (potential) loops.

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Old 08-05-2018, 04:18 AM   #69
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Yeah but if you're not using any PDC-inducing plugins, you're good. That feedback routing sonicowl is talking about IS possible, but it has to go through an extra track.
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Old 08-05-2018, 04:20 AM   #70
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Quote:
Upon investigating this wiring diagram feature (which I think is brilliant BTW),

^really-lol it takes little to please many--

@mpl=good effort,but nar-- don't cut it here atmo.
i guess this will just be another half assed,half baked attempt that will look like an unglorified text editor,which still lacks features/functions.
how can cockos ever get anything 'right' if they try to multitask every job- as they seemingly do to date.
computers are ok @ multitasking-humans,not so much.
cockos,please focus on 1 job,1 feature set-to completion-then move on.

the current routing diagram is also 'incompleted'- it shows little info as to what is doing what+where n how.>>?
if reaper is to be an analog recording representation-then please,make it look like 1.
cables are a 'reality' -reaper is a virtual workspace--so in theory- sky has no limits with this!
we want cake,not crumbs of cake. =)
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Old 08-05-2018, 04:57 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Yeah but if you're not using any PDC-inducing plugins, you're good. That feedback routing sonicowl is talking about IS possible, but it has to go through an extra track.
Or extra jsfx sharing memory with each other.
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:26 AM   #72
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^really-lol it takes little to please many--
Perhaps we're misunderstanding each other here but this wiring diagram view is something of huge value to me. I'm qualified in electronics and having the equivalent of a schematic (or, more accurately, block) diagram of my REAPER projects, even in its current beginning state, is so much more intuitive than the routing matrix.

Obviously the wiring diagram feature needs work to fine tune it and bring it up to release standard but that's the whole point of pre releases.

One of the things I love about this view is the ability to see exactly what is going on with signals in and out of plugins. Without this, it has always been a hair pulling exercise working out why audio isn't doing what we'd expect of certain pin configurations. With the writing diagram, I can instantly see which plugins steal inputs and which ones take a tap from the input and pass the signal on.
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:38 AM   #73
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Yeah but if you're not using any PDC-inducing plugins, you're good. That feedback routing sonicowl is talking about IS possible, but it has to go through an extra track.

I meant parallel backwards wiring. Say you have fx2 reverb and fx3 eq on pins 3+4(parallel to 1+2). Say you want to send from fx4 on pin 1+2 back to fx2 reverb on 3+4. You cannot do it without repositioning.
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Old 08-05-2018, 06:17 AM   #74
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You can, as mentioned, by enabling feedback routing in Project settings, then use another track to send your FX4 to (say you put the output of that FX4 to channels 5/6), and back into the track to the channels you want (3/4)...

You will have one ASIO buffer of latency for this, though (but there's literally no way around that).
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Old 08-05-2018, 06:29 AM   #75
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Perhaps we're misunderstanding each other here but this wiring diagram view is something of huge value to me.




I can instantly see which plugins steal inputs and which ones take a tap from the input and pass the signal on.

heh- i understand that we all want something that is logical + practical.
for me it's not so much huge value,but an absolute necessity.
reason has no problems with in,outs and multi subbed parallels or serial connections-- it looks good as well-- visually logical.
there are a few devices that have latency by default,but that's where a user must be aware or able to compensate accordingly > (lol,ph have only recently added pdc!---sheeezus: how long did that take !?)



straight lines,with little info as to strengths of values or accurate signalling properties:: is hardly cutting edge computing is it..?
i do not try to troll -just saying it as i see and feel it,so just ignore these postings if you wish as well.
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Old 08-05-2018, 07:21 AM   #76
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You can, as mentioned, by enabling feedback routing in Project settings, then use another track to send your FX4 to (say you put the output of that FX4 to channels 5/6), and back into the track to the channels you want (3/4)...

You will have one ASIO buffer of latency for this, though (but there's literally no way around that).
Thinking about it, should be possible to do it with gmem[] in jsfx, without the need of separate track.
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Old 08-05-2018, 07:35 AM   #77
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Yep, mpl said that above.
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Old 08-05-2018, 10:37 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaDave View Post
Upon investigating this wiring diagram feature (which I think is brilliant BTW), I had a few suggestions to make but I see others are on the same page as me and have already made those suggestions.

The first thing that jumped out at me is the right to left flow rather than the much more logical left to right flow. Almost everything I have ever worked on in electronics has a top to bottom and left to right workflow (schematic diagrams particularly). The same is true for hardware audio engineering. Inputs on left, outputs on right. It's pretty much an expected industry standard.

Almost every mixing console in existence has top to bottom and left to right workflow. Most channel strips start with gain first, then EQ and sends, then assignments, pan, mute, solo and fade.
Input channels are left to right, then subgroups and then masters. Even in large format consoles where the master section is in the middle, the subgroups are on the left of the masters.

Slightly off topic, but if REAPER had folders arranged so child tracks were on top (in TCP) and on the left (in MCP) of the parent, I'd probably use them much more often.
Forgetting for the sake of a standard just because, what are the functional benefits of right-to-left flow? As is, just like in the mixer, the master is displayed by default because it is on the left. If it were the other way around, the master would be offscreen for any routing that is more complicated than a handful of tracks, or the screen would need to be scrolled far right by default.
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Old 08-05-2018, 10:40 AM   #79
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Forgetting for the sake of a standard just because, what are the functional benefits of right-to-left flow? As is, just like in the mixer, the master is displayed by default because it is on the left. If it were the other way around, the master would be offscreen for any routing that is more complicated than a handful of tracks, or the screen would need to be scrolled far right by default.
Solution: Match the flow direction to whichever side you've got the master set to in the mixer.
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Default 5.0 Nitpicky Edition / GUI tutorial for Lua / GUI library for Lua scripts / Theory Helper / Radial Menu / Donate / ReaPack
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Old 08-05-2018, 10:46 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokasenna View Post
Solution: Match the flow direction to whichever side you've got the master set to in the mixer.
Sounds sensible to me.
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