Old 03-04-2006, 09:08 AM   #1
Rednroll
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Default Play/Pause bug

Well not really a bug just one minor issue in being incomplete with the play/pause "enter" key operation.

Steps:
1. Use space bar Play/Stop operation, where you last hit STOP.
2. Now use the Play/pause enter key to start playback.

It won't start the Play operation using the Enter key. You have to hit Space bar followed by a Enter key pause for the Enter key to do the play/pause operation.

Last edited by Rednroll; 03-04-2006 at 09:15 AM.
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Old 03-04-2006, 03:59 PM   #2
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Hmmm...interesting how I haven't noticed this before.It's because I rarely use "Pause" and I mostly use only VSTi with few or no audio tracks for testing. If I hit pause on a project with mostly VSTi MIDI tracks,I get weird continuous sounds from the VSTi,so I don't use pause at all.

This is another issue that gets annoying.
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Old 03-04-2006, 05:04 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rednroll
It won't start the Play operation using the Enter key. You have to hit Space bar followed by a Enter key pause for the Enter key to do the play/pause operation.
At the moment the Enter (Pause) key only functions if entered from Play mode. This replicates the behaviour of an analog tape deck (where you'd have to hit play if you were stopped).

If you've already entered Stop, why would you expect to be able to play from Pause?

(Not saying that it's not something you'd want - just trying to understand the logic)
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Old 03-04-2006, 05:19 PM   #4
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The tape logic - it makes sense
I was a tape fan back in the days,and I'm still using tapes up to this day.
Nothing beats good old high-quality reel tape.

Last edited by synth; 03-04-2006 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 03-04-2006, 05:53 PM   #5
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Yep, gotta admit, it all makes sense now. What you're doing is pausing and releasing the pause. It's not so much pause/play, but pause/un-pause.
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Old 03-04-2006, 05:57 PM   #6
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If I could only use my multimedia keyboard instead of the space/enter keys to control transport,the feeling would've been much better (like using a real tape deck)

Last edited by synth; 03-04-2006 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 03-04-2006, 08:01 PM   #7
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I've got a cheap "CommandPost" controller here - its software enables you to set up its keys and other controls to send whatever strings of keystrokes you want, so you can map it to Reaper's keys as desired.
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Old 03-04-2006, 08:29 PM   #8
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But with a multimedia keyboard it's even better than cheap - it's free
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Old 03-04-2006, 10:16 PM   #9
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"If you've already entered Stop, why would you expect to be able to play from Pause?"

The same reason if you hit the STOP button, the keyboard shortcut of the space bar functions as PLAY/STOP operation. So the Enter key I believe is suppose to function the same way as a Play/Pause operation. If you hit Space bar for PLAY, then hit the enter key, it pauses then if you hit the Enter key again, it starts to play, thus operating as a Play/Pause operation.
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Old 03-04-2006, 11:22 PM   #10
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Sorry Rednroll, I don't understand what you're getting at.

The Space bar has only two modes - PLAY or STOP. Both complement each other in that you can only go from one to the other.

The Enter keys two modes are PLAY or PAUSE. It's a loop that you can't enter unless you've pressed the Space bar to enter play, and you can't exit unless you press the space bar to enter STOP.

The Enter key only becomes active once the Transport has entered PLAY mode, so there's no way it could enter PLAY if the Tranport is in STOP mode.

Am I missing something?
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Old 03-05-2006, 12:01 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malcolmj
Am I missing something?
Apparently I am missing Vegas.
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Old 03-05-2006, 07:55 AM   #12
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Maybe, I could be missing something. If the Spacebar=PLAY/STOP, and the Enter key=PLAY/PAUSE, then my thinking was that they should function the same aside from the corresponding STOP and PAUSE differences. For instance. If I press the Space bar PLAY, then I follow this by the Enter key and PAUSE, then now press the space bar to PLAY....it will then PLAY correct? So if I was using your analogy, then why would the space bar do a PLAY function followed by a PAUSE operation? So my point is that PLAY/STOP, does not function the same as PLAY/PAUSE.

So let's say I'm looking for a specific point to PAUSE the cursor at. Let's say I notice a click noise, and I want to PAUSE the cursor at that click sound I heard. Usually I will locate the cursor at a specific point prior to the click. I will first use the PLAY/STOP operation. Then I notice ok, the cursor is located prior to that click and when I hit STOP it locates to that position prior to the click sound. Now, I want the cursor to Pause right at that click sound now. So now I reach for the ENTER key so that I can do a quick PLAY/PAUSE operation. So to do this quickly I want to use the enter keys Play/Pause operation now. So if I hit the Enter key to start the Play back, then it won't do this. I must first hit the space bar Play function, then reach for the Enter key to do the Pause function.

So reaper should function this way depending on the previous state.

1.) Space bar=> IF prior state is PAUSE or STOP then Reaper will PLAY when you press the space bar.

2.) Enter key=> IF prior state is PAUSE or STOP then Reaper will PLAY when you press the enter key.

You see how they are very similar operation in what I outlined above? So as of right now, this is how the Space bar functions in Item #1. The problem is that Item #2 does not function the same way right now it functions this way.

2.) Enter key=> If Prior state is PAUSE and NOT STOP then Reaper will PLAY when you press the enter key. Thus it's NOT a PLAY/PAUSE operation, it's a PAUSE/UNPAUSE operation.

Thus one of 2 things has to happen. One change the keyboard shortcuts for the ENTER key to be PAUSE/UNPAUSE operation, or TWO make it a PLAY/PAUSE operation like it is currently labeled so that it acts the same way as the corresponding PLAY/STOP operation.

This has nothing to do with being a Vegas operation, this has to do with having it function the way it would be expected as it's labeled in the keyboard short cuts. Thus if the Space bar is labeled as PLAY/STOP operation and it works one way, and the PLAY/PAUSE functions another way, then this causes confusion, since the ENTER key does not do the PLAY function if your prior STATE was STOP, but the Space bar starts to PLAY if your prior STATE was PAUSE.

Understand yet? Why would you ever want to have them function 2 different ways and confuse the user?
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Old 03-05-2006, 08:36 AM   #13
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What I maybe find annoying is that the start marker moves permanently when the pause is used. After I have used the pause, if I stop/play anywhere, playback will restart from where I last paused.

I would find more logical personally that the pause does not move this marker but only clicking with the mouse on the timeline does.

I mean, when I pause I just want it to pause. I don't want to reset the general playback starting point.
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Old 03-05-2006, 09:14 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eidenk
I mean, when I pause I just want it to pause. I don't want to reset the general playback starting point.
I do. If I want it to function the way you outlined then I drop a marker or hit "S" and create a split point, then I'm able to locate back to that point by locating to the event edge or locating back to the marker. The way you've outlined is probably more useful in a recording workflow scenario, the way I outlined is more useful in an editing workflow scenario. For recording I'm use to using an ADAT transport controler which allows you to set memory locations, thus similar to a marker function.
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Old 03-05-2006, 09:24 AM   #15
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I agree with Red, I want Play to start from where the cursor was locatated originally, I want Pause to relocate the "start point" to the point I paused.

MJ
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Old 03-05-2006, 09:38 AM   #16
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I think maybe the enter button should just be officially renamed to either "Pause/Unpause" or jus "Pause". Once Malcom explained it, it made perfect sense to me. On a tape machine, You can't start playback with the pause button, meaning that You can't turn on the machine and hit pause and watch the reels go. You have to hit play. If You want to pause the machine, You hit pause, then You can hit the "Pause" button again to unpause the machine. You're not actually playing from the pause button at all, you're simply re-engaging the pinch roller. (The heads are still engaged in pause mode)

As far as the cursor, I like it like it is, and I seem to remember it being a requested function (wasn't it?). But maybe there could be an option?
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Old 03-05-2006, 10:00 AM   #17
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Well if we're going by tape machine operation then we shouldn't be able to press the STOP button either to start playback. So using Malcolms same analogy then the Play/Stop operation functions improperly also.
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Old 03-05-2006, 10:12 AM   #18
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I think we had these discussions earlier.

As far as the cursor updating to cursor position when pause was hit, see this earlier post:
http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthre...t=Play%2FPause

As far as the Enter key being a Play/Pause operation, I originally discussed this way back here in this thread and this is when Justin added the Play/Pause function to the Enter key....it's just not functioning 100% correctly.
http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthre...t=Play%2FPause
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Old 03-05-2006, 01:06 PM   #19
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I would like an option not to move the play start position cursor while pausing and unpausing.I'm also used to this behavior,like eidenk.An option for it is a good idea.I think I requested this earlier.
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Old 03-05-2006, 03:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rednroll
Understand yet?
Yep, I now can see how the behaviour you're after would be very useful in the given situation.
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Old 05-03-2006, 08:41 PM   #21
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Yet more quibbles:

When I want to play/stop a track, I want to do so in a hurry; which means I want the STOP button adjacent to the PLAY button.

I keep hitting the PAUSE button.. annoying. I like the pause/unpause idea, though.. except it's a hassle if you accidentally hit the PAUSE button while trying to mouse over to STOP.

WHAT WOULD BE COOLER, HOWEVER....

Would be if you could toggle the PLAY button to play/stop.

"Why is that logical?"

Because as it is now, it does play/play: with the mouse over the play button, you can't do anything if you press play (playback) play (playback again). Yeah, you hear it twice in row, in a hurry - but what's the point in that, since in order to affect a chance you're going to have to STOP it?

On the other hand, if I can go PLAY (playback) then PLAY (stop), I can quickly stop playback without having to move the mouse. This prevents accidentally hitting PAUSE, while at the same time reducing the need for yet another "Momentary Concentration Deviation To Aim the Mouse" event....

You still can have it playback in a row quickly, just by clicking
one more time. Wouldn't the functionality of that be more useful?



/ all about reducing those Momentary Deviations....
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Old 05-03-2006, 08:44 PM   #22
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Can't believe you are not using the keyboard for transport!
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Old 05-03-2006, 08:48 PM   #23
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Another thing:

visually, when I'm in a hurry, the transport buttons become "a bunch of buttons with black dots"...

While it makes sense that RECORD is red, from a work-flow standpoint I'd be more convenient if:

A) the PLAY button was further to the right (since most of the time you're mousing from the window on the right to the left, in order to hit PLAY

B) there was a different color for PLAY and STOP, for the same "in a hurry visual cue" ergonomic reasons.


Also, who uses the "CURSOR TO END" button?

My druthers would be

HARD REWIND PLAY STOP PAUSE

or even have the PLAY button all the way to the right...


... and larger transport buttons - or perhaps not screen-size larger, but bolder graphics for them..


/ still looking for a way to resize the enormous screen space the "track controls" area takes up....
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Old 05-03-2006, 09:53 PM   #24
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Quote:
Also, who uses the "CURSOR TO END" button?
Anyone wanting to get quickly to the end of the project to add the next recording, especially in live or session environment.
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Old 05-03-2006, 11:27 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans
Can't believe you are not using the keyboard for transport!
That depends.

I am using it to hit record, since I've got to turn my monitor off because of the noise. I sometimes use the spacebar.

What you're missing is that I'm sitting at the computer with a guitar in my hands, and if I'm going to have to reach across to use the mouse to do something on the screen, it may be clumsy to wrap my left hand under the guitar; and if I've already got my hand on the mouse it's more of a pain to move it off to the keyboard, back to the mouse, over and over.
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Old 05-03-2006, 11:30 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans
Anyone wanting to get quickly to the end of the project to add the next recording, especially in live or session environment.
I hope in a session people aren't putting multiple songs into one project file...and if they're recording live why would they not let it record continuously.....?
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Old 05-04-2006, 12:41 AM   #27
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Sounds like you've not done take-based recording, where you work through the long classical piece section by section. You wouldn't start a new project for each take. Nor would you have 24 tracks of disk churning away through the breaks and set changes in a live performance (unless you had a great deal on hand to spare). Believe me, go-to-end is a very necessary facility and one which you will find on just about every similar program and hardware recorder.
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Old 05-04-2006, 01:25 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald
I hope in a session people aren't putting multiple songs into one project file...and if they're recording live why would they not let it record continuously.....?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans
Sounds like you've not done take-based recording ...
Or much dialog recording. I've done day-long sessions of dialog recording where the various talent arrives at different times throughout the day. We record a block of dialog then start editing that while waiting for the next talent, then jump to the end of the Project and start recording again when the next talent arrives, then back to editing, and so on. "Jump to end of Project" is a feature I've used a lot over the years.
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Old 05-04-2006, 10:15 AM   #29
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I agree. I use the "END" button feature all the time in Vegas to jump to the end of a project. It is very common to assemble multiple commercials into the same project. For example, it is typical to record 6 different radio commercials which are similar but are specialized for different regions of the country. So what you end up doing is recording multiple V.O. parts where the V.O. will be different for each region, but the Music and Sound FX's beds will remain the same and get copied later along the time line for the individual spots. Being able to jump to the end makes sure you're doing just that, and not accidentally recording into a section between different radio spots you have assembled. Since these are usually spaced apart by at least 60 seconds of silence and they all "look" very similar.
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Old 05-04-2006, 11:42 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans
You wouldn't start a new project for each take. Nor would you have 24 tracks of disk churning away through the breaks and set changes in a live performance (unless you had a great deal on hand to spare).
I've done classical sessions, quartets/solo. I let it run; if you're talking about 2 hours total, the breaks don't add up to much, and since they're silence they don't take much space in the end. Particularly since it's stripped out later; it's easier to make note on the fly of when there's a good take, when there's a bad, and justs chop the bad out later in one swoop.

If you're talking about a live performance - man, I *definitely* don't want to be stopping and futzing about with the machine! If I'm going to do a crazy 24 track orchestral live recording, I sure better have enough drive space to not have to worry about running out of room for *anything*....

Quote:
Believe me, go-to-end is a very necessary facility and one which you will find on just about every similar program and hardware recorder.
I disagree that it's neccessary. It's easy enough to just click the cursor to the end if needed, and relative to how many times most people will use the PLAY/STOP buttons it's neglibile IMO. Sorry, my humble opinion....
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