Old 04-26-2018, 08:25 AM   #1
playtimer
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Default v5.81pre1 - April 26 2018

v5.81pre1 - April 26 2018
  • # API: SetEnvelopePointEx() will propagate envelope item changes when not modifying point time and nosort=false
  • # MIDI editor: avoid auto-rezooming to less than 4 beats
  • # MIDI editor: fix EnsureNoteRangeVisible() / EnsureNoteVisible() with note folding enabled
  • # MIDI editor: improve editability linking when opening editable items from arrange, editability linked and active unlinked [p=1982004]
  • # MIDI editor: improve track list activate behavior when activating looped item
  • # MIDI editor: try to keep all folded notes in view when updating during recording
Changelog - Pre-Releases

Generated by X-Raym's REAPER ChangeLog to BBCode
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Old 04-26-2018, 08:39 AM   #2
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thanks for taking the time for making reaper better for editing! this slight things are priceless!
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Old 04-26-2018, 08:52 AM   #3
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Nice to see user feedback shaping development as always.

# MIDI editor: avoid auto-rezooming to less than 4 beats


This will be slick for 90% of music.
Surely making the minimum zoom one bar makes more sense as it works visually in all signatures?
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Old 04-26-2018, 10:07 AM   #4
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very nice. slick workflow over here, guys -- i'm able to do almost everything MIDI from my controller.

i dreamed last night that i tried to log on the forum and had been banned. then got an email from Cockos telling me not to bother doing any more testing. i woke up stunned. far and away the nerdiest dream i have ever had.
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Old 04-26-2018, 10:15 AM   #5
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Thank you very much guys for putting so much effort in making Reaper better, this is what makes it awesome and by far my favourite program.

Here's 2 behaviours that I noticed in the last Prereleases and in this one as well, that I find counterintuitive:


1) the fact that closing and reopening the editor makes it lose the zoom level I just selected, which means having to re-zoom all the time when closing and reopening.

2) the zoom level of the notation editor influences the zoom level of the piano roll and vice-versa, and it should not be this way, they should be independent...piano roll and notation have two very different purposes, so we might need to zoom very close to see just a single note in the piano roll, but we would never zoom as much to read the same note in the notation editor. On the contrary the notation is useful to have an overview of more staves and get a better "glance" at the harmony and the relationships between notes we are creating. If you look at the end of my video, I zoomed in a lot in the piano roll, and switching to notation made me lose sight of the 5 staves I was working on.


Hope this makes sense, please let me know if I can help further.
Here's my options:

and I always open and close editors using key commands.


THANKS!
All the best
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Old 04-26-2018, 10:44 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mccrabney View Post
very nice. slick workflow over here, guys -- i'm able to do almost everything MIDI from my controller.

i dreamed last night that i tried to log on the forum and had been banned. then got an email from Cockos telling me not to bother doing any more testing. i woke up stunned. far and away the nerdiest dream i have ever had.
Reminds me of a dream I had years ago that I ran into Justin at a grocery store and began to ask about a bug but was stopped mid-sentence. I've had a surprising number of dreams over the years about audio companies.
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Old 04-27-2018, 12:26 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tusitala View Post
The zoom level of the notation editor influences the zoom level of the piano roll and vice-versa, and it should not be this way, they should be independent...
For me more useful ,when zoom is the same for notation editor & piano roll. I think this is a matter of preferences.
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Old 04-27-2018, 12:55 AM   #8
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For me more useful ,when zoom is the same for notation editor & piano roll. I think this is a matter of preferences.
I think it is a matter of preferences too.
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Old 04-27-2018, 12:56 AM   #9
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I really like how all these MIDI editing updates are coming together.

Devs, you might think this is tedious work (and I believe you that it probably is), but the net gain produced by these continuing efforts is tremendous for smooth MIDI workflow! So I'm really happy these things are happening.
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Old 04-27-2018, 05:09 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Vagalume View Post
I think it is a matter of preferences too.
Sure I agree, everyone has his own workflow, and I guess that's the reason we chose to work in Reaper, as it allows us to have all these magnificent options and tools at our disposal :-)

I come from writing entirely inside a notation program so I tend to use it as a reference as much as I can (that's what I find more "musical" for me), hence the idea that it should be able to have its own independent zoom level.

Here's what I mean would dream of and that I'm trying to hopefully get closer to:





https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=184238

(apologies if I posted this several times on the preprelease cycles, I wouldn't want to annoy anyone with my request, I just post it often as it might slip away sometimes and not get the attention of the developers)

Thanks again for everything!
All the best
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Old 04-27-2018, 06:10 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
the net gain produced by these continuing efforts is tremendous for smooth MIDI workflow
this is not hyperbole. yesterday was the best midi experience i've ever had in REAPER. it felt as smooth as the glory days of the MPC JJOS midi sequencer, which i left in 2014 in favor of REAPER's greater editing power.

that said i might have found a relevant bug haha...

1- create track with multiple midi items
2- enter midi editor with all track midi selected/editable
3- select midi from a centrally located midi item
4- copy and paste this midi to another item later in the project WITHOUT activating it. NOTE: it works.
5- copy and paste the centrally located midi to another item EARLIER in the project without activating it.
6- issue: midi does not paste.



also, semi-related, but my fullscreen midi editor (windows 10) keeps losing its maximized status and i can't for the life of me figure out why. this is a years-old issue and drives me nuts because i can't reproduce it even though it happens all the time. does anyone else who opens/closes the midi editor a lot find that it moves around the screen a little bit?

i also feel like alt-f4 used to close the midi editor and doesn't anymore, but i am probably remembering wrong.
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Old 04-27-2018, 07:15 AM   #12
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i also am surprised to find that i can't ctrl-drag a note from a non-active item into an active item.



imo the midi editor needs to be able to ignore item bounds...drawing midi data where there is no midi item should print a midi item at that position. if an item is drawn halfway between 2 midi items, automatically glue those 2 items to make one...and have an option to prevent multiple overlapping midi items on the same track (automatically gluing them into 1)
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Old 04-27-2018, 09:05 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mccrabney View Post
i
imo the midi editor needs to be able to ignore item bounds...
personally some times i get really annoyed because i can't move selected notes because of the bonds (when 1 of them is in the bond limit).
There is something there that works as a limitation, i am not sure what it is.
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:14 AM   #14
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Indeed these tweaks are good.

Though I noticed something where if my previous view was drum triangles, then I go to edit a piano part, it also came up as triangles,

when
I thought reaper should be remembering a particular items last view pref.
(It could be a case that such Prefs were reset with the updates so need to set things again)

Also - noone has moaned about all this midi focus yet, v well behaved!
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Old 04-27-2018, 01:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mccrabney View Post

also, semi-related, but my fullscreen midi editor (windows 10) keeps losing its maximized status and i can't for the life of me figure out why. this is a years-old issue and drives me nuts because i can't reproduce it even though it happens all the time. does anyone else who opens/closes the midi editor a lot find that it moves around the screen a little bit?
Try editing the reaper.ini so maximizing is enabled...
[midiedit]
window_max=1

Also for Win10 this may help,
Preferences > Advanced UI system tweaks > Use large (non-tool) window frames

Ya, I use ME in full screen/maximized, I've seen it open at location 12,12 when I expected it to be maximized or at least be located at 0,0, not sure WTF is up with that, but every change to the ME window is saved to the Reaper.ini [midiedit] and becomes the new ME defaults no matter if the changes were done manually or by loading a project or track template. Sort of silly since Projects,templates and each midi item seem to already save all the ME view settings! So seems whatever view was used last becomes your new default ME view, I just hate that, although I can see how some users would just love this behavior. So I'd love to see an option to set ME default view settings so Reaper would use those when opening a blank midi item, starting a new project, etc. Workaround for now: Get the ME exactly how I like it, copy the section [midiedit] from reaper.ini, restore that section as needed (Sorry for the rant).

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Old 04-27-2018, 03:01 PM   #16
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Not sure if you're currently taking any feedback on the ReaSurround improvements, but I played with it a bit this afternoon.

In 5.1 it's sounding pretty solid in relative mode. It's behaving as I would expect. I was able to figure out how to send to LFE as well, using the dropdown toward the bottom.

I cannot test this in 7.1 currently, my room is only 5.1, but I'm going to have two guys on my team test it in our mix room early next week and send me their feedback, and I'll paste it here.

I did encounter a crash after changing the number of input channels from 1 to 2, then realizing I made a mistake and bumping it up to 4. It seemed to hang indefinitely and I had to force quit. If there's a way I can provide more details on this, I'm happy to do so.

This is awesome. I'm excited for it to make it out in a release build so we can start using it! Thank you for all your work on it!
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Old 04-27-2018, 03:04 PM   #17
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What has been annoying me for some time is that the shortcuts of the MIDI editor get mixed up with the shortcuts of the main section. I often switch between the main arrangement window and the MIDI editor. In the main window I move the MIDI items around while editing MIDI notes in the open and docked MIDI editor. All on one monitor. If I then use shortcuts but the wrong window is in focus, the wrong shortcuts are executed. I don't think that should happen, and it's hindering the flow of work. It has happened to me several times that I destroyed my arrangement in the main window by the shortcuts of the MIDI editor, sometimes without noticing it immediately.
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Old 04-27-2018, 04:17 PM   #18
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Well, there's no easy solution for that, because MIDI editor has its own set of shortcuts in the Actions list... If MIDI editor has focus, its shortcuts are executed, if it doesn't have focus, arrange (or media explorer) shortcuts are executed. This is by desing. All you can do is try to make identical actions have the same shortcuts across all contexts - but this is not always possible.
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Old 04-27-2018, 05:48 PM   #19
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I understand your point but I don't like the current design. I'd prefer it if the MIDI Editor was open that only the MIDI Editor shortcuts should apply, regardless of whether the MIDI Editor is in focus or not. When the MIDI Editor is closed, the shortcuts should apply to the main window again. Same behavior for other windows, such as Media Explorer. That's just my opinion and many see it differently. I will therefore clean out my double occupied shortcuts, which sometimes destroy things unintentionally.

Last edited by mawi; 04-27-2018 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 04-27-2018, 07:03 PM   #20
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maybe FR option: "if midi editor is fullscreen, do not focus main window"

because there's always "pass key thru to main window"
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:39 PM   #21
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Quote:
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I understand your point but I don't like the current design.
You might not like it but it's here to stay, and this sort of design decision that was made early on (since, after all, MIDI editor is not "built into" Reaper, it's a Reaper extension!) isn't easy to change at all.
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Old 04-28-2018, 06:48 AM   #22
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I understand your point but I don't like the current design. I'd prefer it if the MIDI Editor was open that only the MIDI Editor shortcuts should apply, regardless of whether the MIDI Editor is in focus or not.
This in my opinion apparently would lead to reaper be more dummy instead of being more clever.
Just like CMD + C copies what is focused (notes, media item, fx, ai, etc), everything should work the same way. And this is a big issue that reaper needs to solve, because, this behaviour is working as an exception and it should be the norm.

Gluing, splitting, grouping, muting, deleting, copy/paste, copy/ paste pool, duplicate, rename, show properties, should be clever actions that take in consideration what user has selected/ focused, whether it is a note, media item, fx, ai, or whatever .

Because, makes life easier and coherent while editing and easier and expected for unexperienced users.

Just like with programming: with same basic functions you do everything (while, for, if then else, and a few others) in every language (DAW).

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
You might not like it but it's here to stay, and this sort of design decision that was made early on (since, after all, MIDI editor is not "built into" Reaper, it's a Reaper extension!) isn't easy to change at all.
curious! i didn't know about this distinction, as reaper extension. I assume this was written somewhere.

Last edited by deeb; 04-28-2018 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 04-28-2018, 07:19 AM   #23
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Something I notice in v5.81 pre1 (that doesn´t happen in v5.80, at least in my setup) :

When I use left and right arrows to move edit cursor by grid inside the MIDI Editor, it´s really laggy and not quite responsive. It doesn´t happen in arrange view, and it also doesn´t happen in the MIDI Editor with v5.80.

Does anyone else notice it? If it´s indeed confirmed, I suppose it´s an easy one to fix, but quite annoying nonetheless.


Thanks in advance!
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Old 04-28-2018, 08:32 AM   #24
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i too have seen some laggy behavior in ME but haven't been able to reproduce.
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Old 04-28-2018, 12:57 PM   #25
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Gluing, splitting, grouping, muting, deleting, copy/paste, copy/ paste pool, duplicate, rename, show properties, should be clever actions that take in consideration what user has selected/ focused, whether it is a note, media item, fx, ai, or whatever .
.
+1

context aware actions along with actions to focus contexts would decrease configuration time by an order of magnitude!

alternatively vim-style gestures for note/bar/time selection/to end/track ...
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Old 04-30-2018, 06:29 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mccrabney View Post
i also am surprised to find that i can't ctrl-drag a note from a non-active item into an active item.



imo the midi editor needs to be able to ignore item bounds...drawing midi data where there is no midi item should print a midi item at that position. if an item is drawn halfway between 2 midi items, automatically glue those 2 items to make one...and have an option to prevent multiple overlapping midi items on the same track (automatically gluing them into 1)
Item boundaries limiting note placement got to go in to oblivion. Notes outside boundaries should be stored within item though, and not be glued automatically, and boundaries should only be used to extend the area of part of an item that is to be played. Ie. Like in cubase, if devs would like to have a look at that.
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Old 04-30-2018, 06:31 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
Gluing, splitting, grouping, muting, deleting, copy/paste, copy/ paste pool, duplicate, rename, show properties, should be clever actions that take in consideration what user has selected/ focused, whether it is a note, media item, fx, ai, or whatever .
This has been my request for years. This is crucial for fast workflow.
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