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Old 04-03-2016, 08:21 AM   #41
tpulse
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Back again, my headphones does use the same outputs as my speakers (1-2).
I did have extra pair of headphones before on the 3-4 outputs.

Now that i've done the "hrtf" thing= i panned hard left on the track channel(2ch outputs) where i have the pink noise generator (mono signal).

I found that the "Listen 1028" was something for me, it sounded as natural as the pink noise signal when i bypassed the master fx where i got these fx (no sure if i've understand this wrong :P ).

Anyway, then i adjusted the preamp signal(-4db) on the decode binaural(second in chain in maseter channel) so the signal sounds as much on both sides in my headphones (left&right) and nothing or very little in the middle(it's like a phase issue when connecting + and - wrong in a speaker). I see now that there's also coming signal out from channel 3(left)(nothing from output 4) in my RME mixer.

The encode stereo is still at 180 degree, but i know that if i touch this i need to adjust the preamp db also(at 88.5 degree the db on preamp is -8db). then the both meters show signal at the right side of the encode stereo plugin, and the signal is still coming out from the output 3 (left) not 4 (right)on my rme mixer.

When panning back to center on the track channel the signal disappears from output 3 & 4.

Dave, i hope you understand what i try to explain and let me know if doing right or wrong
Regards
Pekka
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Old 04-05-2016, 12:34 PM   #42
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You're definitely on the right track here Pekka. You shouldn't need to adjust the encoder at all though.

Regarding channels 3 & 4, you can ignore the audio on those. Ambisonics uses a minimum of four channels to 'do its thing' but in this usage, the final audio is on 1 & 2 and that is what we are listening to.

Great that you found a HRTF model that suits you. That is the key to this processing chain working most naturally. Once you have that all set, you can then resave the chain for your own use to recall on other projects.
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Old 04-06-2016, 11:37 PM   #43
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I've been using this and compared my way to mix and listen things etc. my experience is that it's almost like listening to my studio speakers...simple as that There's this distance between the music and me (like it is with studio speakers and me), when panning eq'ing...it feels like it's a bit different to tweak, the reason is the small distance..I compared the mix with a similar music and i've to say that i'm impressed

This stays in my mastering chain with the sonarworks reference 3 when using headphones !!!!!

Thanx Dave!!!!
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Last edited by tpulse; 04-07-2016 at 03:16 AM.
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Old 04-07-2016, 10:39 PM   #44
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Thank you very much for putting this together and providing it for everyone ReaDave. I just downloaded and will check it out after I get home from my real job. It looks like a very interesting idea. Thank you again.
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Old 04-13-2016, 08:59 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpulse View Post
I've been using this and compared my way to mix and listen things etc. my experience is that it's almost like listening to my studio speakers...simple as that There's this distance between the music and me (like it is with studio speakers and me), when panning eq'ing...it feels like it's a bit different to tweak, the reason is the small distance..I compared the mix with a similar music and i've to say that i'm impressed

This stays in my mastering chain with the sonarworks reference 3 when using headphones !!!!!

Thanx Dave!!!!
Great to hear it is working for you Pekka and that it is helpful too.
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Thank you very much for putting this together and providing it for everyone ReaDave. I just downloaded and will check it out after I get home from my real job. It looks like a very interesting idea. Thank you again.
Let us know how you get on with it Azimuth.
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Old 04-20-2016, 11:59 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prom View Post
Big improvement monitoring with Samson SR850
I have also tried Isone pro and Beyerdynamic VS

Thank you so much!
Thanks heaps for the feedback. Glad it's working well for you too.
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Old 04-23-2016, 07:59 PM   #47
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Default mono?

Hey,
I have this setup and found an acceptable preset.
I am finding that none of my pans do anything now.
Do I have a mono setting somewhere?
I am using on the master, when I mute the chain, I am back to working pans.
Thoughts?
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Old 04-24-2016, 01:34 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by flipotto View Post
Hey,
I have this setup and found an acceptable preset.
I am finding that none of my pans do anything now.
Do I have a mono setting somewhere?
I am using on the master, when I mute the chain, I am back to working pans.
Thoughts?
Perhaps there's something odd in the master channel configuration. Did you set it to four channels before inserting the chain? Another possibility might be that you are monitoring channels three and four rather than one and two. Although that wouldn't give you mono but it would mess with the pans.
Your headphone output signal should be sourced from channels one and two to work correctly.
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Old 04-24-2016, 02:27 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by ReaDave View Post
Perhaps there's something odd in the master channel configuration. Did you set it to four channels before inserting the chain? Another possibility might be that you are monitoring channels three and four rather than one and two. Although that wouldn't give you mono but it would mess with the pans.
Your headphone output signal should be sourced from channels one and two to work correctly.
Man, I am having a helluva time with this. No I did not have four channel routing. I used your template to store an fx chain. However that does not remember the channel settings, when on master, apparently.

I have an existing project. I want this chain on the master.
preferably input fx so I don't render it, by accident.
1. I don't know how to add chans to the monitoring fx?
2. I see when I look at your master project you have it routed and there are more than 4 chans. I can't seem to tell what is going where.
3. I don't know how to copy the settings (routing and fx) from master in one project to another. Is there a way to do this?

I'm all frustrated, I can usually sort things out, maybe I just need a break and try again tomorrow.

EDIT: ok well all I had to do was make it 4 chan and everything worked on my existing project.

I would like to know how to set this up in monitoring fx? ....
Well at least I think I do, maybe I just need to set it up on a track and have that track go to headphone output, that way it's always there on the headphone output but NOT there on the master track.

Thanks for your work on this.
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Last edited by flipotto; 04-25-2016 at 04:24 AM. Reason: silly mistake.
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Old 04-26-2016, 06:08 AM   #50
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I was too disapointed with mono sound at start, but. For me helped following trick:
*) open the very first plugin in ReaDave FX chain - JS: ATK FOA Encode Stereo
*) then open a input/output pin window
*) and then just click un tiny "plus" sign.

You will open and "enable" additional 3. un 4. channel and whole thing start to work in stereo. Use some stereo source in tracks (in my case Reaper's pink noise generator in stereo mode and Goniometer after ReaDave FX chain to proof stereo signal.

An yes, for unknown reason this FX chain works only in 44,1 kHz.
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Old 04-28-2016, 04:44 AM   #51
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This morning, I found it was easier to use a track instead of master.
- disable master parent send.
- route receives post fader/post fx to that track
- add hardware output for headphone amp.
- make sure track has 4 channels.

Working fine.
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Old 05-10-2016, 10:20 PM   #52
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Great to see you got it sorted flipotto. One of the cool things about REAPER is there's almost always multiple methods of achieving something
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An yes, for unknown reason this FX chain works only in 44,1 kHz.
The reason for this is that the HRTF impulses are sampled at 44.1K. It might be possible to resample them but I haven't tried that personally.
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Old 05-11-2016, 12:29 AM   #53
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Ah! So I tried this and of course I had a problem. I can only use the Spherical presets because the Cipic and Listen presets don't work in 48k Anyone know a work around??

I'm using 48k because I like to make drum videos. Awhile back my audio would go out of sync with my video (1080p 60fps) after about 48 seconds. I asked a friend who does audio/video for a TV station, and he said that he wasnt certain why, but they always use 48khz when using audio with video and have no problems with going out of sync.

I guess a better question to ask would be... if I change my Reaper sample rate down to 44.1khz, am I going to destroy all the audio I 've created thus far??
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Old 05-13-2016, 09:11 AM   #54
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Ah! So I tried this and of course I had a problem. I can only use the Spherical presets because the Cipic and Listen presets don't work in 48k Anyone know a work around??
...
You could try resampling all the samples in the C:\REAPER\Data\ATK\kernels\FOA\decoders directory (this is the location for my particular Windows REAPER portable install). Perhaps create 48K folders for the resampled impulses. I haven't tried this personally though so I have no idea yet whether it will work.

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...I guess a better question to ask would be... if I change my Reaper sample rate down to 44.1khz, am I going to destroy all the audio I 've created thus far??
You won't alter any audio files you've used in that project. You will notice higher CPU use due to the realtime resampling though. The realtime resampling quality setting will affect both CPU use and audio monitoring quality.
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Old 07-28-2016, 02:26 AM   #55
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No worries about supported sample rates at all. There's a new update with many supported sample rates out there!
http://www.ambisonictoolkit.net/news/

"Binaural decoding at all sample rates
Many of you have asked if we could extend the Binaural decoder so that it works with all HRTFs at all sample rates. Your dog will be pleased to learn that you can now decode for headphone listening at up to 192 kHz."
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Old 07-28-2016, 09:59 AM   #56
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Thanks for updating this Jazznfunk. I meant to post the link myself but hadn't gotten around to it yet.
Here's the direct link to the beta 9 page.. http://www.ambisonictoolkit.net/publ...r-1.0.0b9.html

I've just installed beta 9 myself and haven't yet tested the binaural decoder at other sample rates.
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Old 07-29-2016, 06:28 AM   #57
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Doh! Is it too late to bump all my recordings back up to 48.1 khz?
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Old 07-29-2016, 12:57 PM   #58
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Doh! Is it too late to bump all my recordings back up to 48.1 khz?
If you initially recorded everything at 48K, I'd change your project settings to match. That way, you won't be relying on the CPU to do realtime sample rate conversion and your projects will use less CPU.

If you actually converted your audio files to 44.1K, I would leave them at that. If you upsample them again, you'll reduce the quality again.

Keep in mind, there's currently a bug (at least on Windows) with the ATK 1.0.0.b9 where the plugins lag during loading. Some of us have posted about that here.... http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...14#post1712614
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Old 08-27-2017, 02:46 AM   #59
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Thoughts re advantages or disadvantages to this vs sonarworks? I have used sonarworks for a couple years now...but this intrigues me
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Old 08-27-2017, 07:55 AM   #60
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Thoughts re advantages or disadvantages to this vs sonarworks? I have used sonarworks for a couple years now...but this intrigues me
Hi Sonarworks is a complete different thing, it's a sonic correction for headphones and speakers in order to get a nearly flat response curve,while rea daves headphone tries to emulate the listening experience of real loudspeake, so that you get the "room" expression while listening via headphones.
I use both sonarworks-> readave's in my monitoring chain...
Works great for me.
I also own Isone pro, but I don't like the frequency shift of this plug, but maybe that's caused by a wrong setup i did??
Anyway readaves headphone chain has worked directly for me great work....thank yo man.
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Old 12-13-2017, 01:31 PM   #61
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Hello Dave.

I've installed your chain and have decided to put it on Monitoring FX. It sounds ilke on normal track. To make 4 channels I added VST:Master limiter MK2(http://jsplugins.supermaailma.net/vstplugins.php made by Reaper user anomaly) to the inception of the chain. So now it works well.

Thank you for great opportunity of using this tool!
Hi there, New forum & Reaper user here! I've got this awesome headphone monitoring FX working on the Master but cannot make it work on Monitoring FX with the plugin you mentioned... Everything turns to mono. Any tip how to set the limiter up?

I guess this is the plugin you mean. I've inserted it in the beginning of the chain

Any advice would be very nice!

Thanks
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Old 12-21-2017, 01:24 PM   #62
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I've tried just about everything I could try with Isone. It isn't terrible by any stretch. In fact, it is reasonably good but it isn't nearly as good as the Ambisonics binaural decoder as far as non colouration goes. The main issue is the HF response. The top end becomes somewhat brittle with Isone to my ears.


As tpulse has mentioned, I'm curious about Sonarworks and ARC2 as well. I'm particularly keen to know if both can be used for multi speaker setups (7.1 in my case).

Please forgive my ignorance, but how should the routing matrix look in a theoretical situation with only two tracks, and two outputs? I can't wrap my brain around how to set it up in the matrix. Pic would help. When I go to "add track* using your template I cannot hear the track , whereas before (no template) it was a one step thing, no futzing with routing needed. Thank you! @ReaDave
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Old 12-23-2017, 05:24 AM   #63
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Please forgive my ignorance, but how should the routing matrix look in a theoretical situation with only two tracks, and two outputs? I can't wrap my brain around how to set it up in the matrix. Pic would help. When I go to "add track* using your template I cannot hear the track , whereas before (no template) it was a one step thing, no futzing with routing needed. Thank you! @ReaDave
I'm not quite sure what you mean here SwampDonkey. By two tracks, do you mean you have two tracks that you want to send to this headphone monitoring track?
When you mention two outputs, do you mean one audio interface with two channels (l&r) or do you mean you have two separate stereo outputs (one for monitors and one for headphones)?
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Old 12-29-2017, 11:56 AM   #64
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Could not load the ATK/FOA/Binaural js plugin. Can anyone help?
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Old 12-29-2017, 12:04 PM   #65
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Could not load the ATK/FOA/Binaural js plugin. Can anyone help?
Have you installed the Ambisonic Toolkit mentioned in my first post? There's a link to the download there. It is free.
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Old 12-29-2017, 12:50 PM   #66
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Yes I did. Copied the files as well. But for some reason it wont load the Binaural fx.
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Old 01-04-2018, 02:24 PM   #67
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Yes I did. Copied the files as well. But for some reason it wont load the Binaural fx.
There are a lot of files to copy. Perhaps double check all directory paths and see if everything is where it should be.
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Thank you ReaDave/Dannii, working great out of the box!

Personally what I like to do after choosing my HRTF (I go with Cipic 0021) is to transform Ambisonics with the pressing algorithm, narrowing and elevating the field a bit (using/ATK/FOA/Transform/FocusPressPushZoom).

(it's probably the wrong place but also many many thanks to Trond Lossius for his port of the ATK!)
Trond has done some great work with all this for sure. I have no issue at all with you mentioning that here in this thread. He deserves credit.

As far as personal tweaks and preferences go, that's one of the benefits of Ambisonics. It opens up so many opportunities to be creative.
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Old 01-05-2018, 09:32 AM   #68
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This is really good, I'm just finding my ideal HTRF but I'm interested to see if headphone mixes better translate, I've got better over the years but it's still very easy to mix things too low in volume, only to be inaudible on speakers.

I bought the Sonarworks and used the average model of my set of headphones, but personally wouldn't trust using it without a set from them with the custom correction file. It's quite a drastic change and I'm used to my current headphones and just felt too unsure whether to trust or not. When this set dies I'll definitely be trying that out.

Again, thanks for this information!
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Old 01-06-2018, 04:03 AM   #69
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Make sure you let us know how it works out for you farjedi.
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Old 02-25-2018, 02:52 PM   #70
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Boy.... talk 'bout something that makes me go - hmmmmmmm...

I'm gonna have to look into this when I'm not sitting in the car enjoying the reaper forums.


::::::taking notes::::::
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Old 05-25-2018, 01:08 PM   #71
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Thanks for this. Just getting to grips with it on the Monitor Fx chain.

Dialing in the correct HRTF is awkward. Hard panning pink noise to either side, I still hear faint crosstalk no matter which head model I use.

It's the least worst with the Spherical models, but when I check the tone with the pink noise centred again and bypassing the chain off/on, it is definitely not a similar tone between the two; I get loads more high end noise when it is bypassed.

Anyone got any suggestions?
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Old 05-27-2018, 04:35 AM   #72
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Thanks for this. Just getting to grips with it on the Monitor Fx chain.

Dialing in the correct HRTF is awkward. Hard panning pink noise to either side, I still hear faint crosstalk no matter which head model I use.

It's the least worst with the Spherical models, but when I check the tone with the pink noise centred again and bypassing the chain off/on, it is definitely not a similar tone between the two; I get loads more high end noise when it is bypassed.

Anyone got any suggestions?
It's a bit of a sometimes lengthy trial and error process finding what works best for each person. Like you, none of the HRTF models are perfect for me. I've chosen to compensate with a combination of EQ (last in the FX chain) and Sonarworks Reference 4.

My advice would be to add an EQ last in the chain and after selecting the closest HRTF model, adjust the EQ so everything is as close as possible to your main monitors.
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Old 05-28-2018, 03:04 AM   #73
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It's a bit of a sometimes lengthy trial and error process finding what works best for each person. Like you, none of the HRTF models are perfect for me. I've chosen to compensate with a combination of EQ (last in the FX chain) and Sonarworks Reference 4.

My advice would be to add an EQ last in the chain and after selecting the closest HRTF model, adjust the EQ so everything is as close as possible to your main monitors.
Thanks mate. Will do. Thanks for all your work once again.
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Old 05-28-2018, 04:29 AM   #74
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Thanks mate. Will do. Thanks for all your work once again.
My pleasure.
Let us know how you go.
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Old 06-07-2018, 12:25 AM   #75
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Default IEM Plugins

Hey Dave,

as I'm very new to the ambisonics topic and you're way into it - may I ask you something?

There's a lot of different plugins/ideologies out there to make ambisonic available to all of us.

Just yesterday I've discovered IEM Open Source Plugins Suite.

https://plugins.iem.at/

Do you have any experiences with it? What would you recommend to a newbie like me in using what and how when it comes to regular Audio Production?

Many thanks in advance for your help and recommendations.
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Old 06-09-2018, 08:36 AM   #76
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Hey Dave,

as I'm very new to the ambisonics topic and you're way into it - may I ask you something?

There's a lot of different plugins/ideologies out there to make ambisonic available to all of us.

Just yesterday I've discovered IEM Open Source Plugins Suite.

https://plugins.iem.at/

Do you have any experiences with it? What would you recommend to a newbie like me in using what and how when it comes to regular Audio Production?

Many thanks in advance for your help and recommendations.
You might want to have a read through a topic where some of us are discussing various Ambisonic utilities right now. The "man in charge" of the IEM suite is a member of this forum and has also joined in.
Here's the link....

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=207198
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Old 06-12-2018, 12:33 AM   #77
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You might want to have a read through a topic where some of us are discussing various Ambisonic utilities right now. The "man in charge" of the IEM suite is a member of this forum and has also joined in.
Here's the link....

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=207198
Hey Dave, thank you for the hint!
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