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Old 03-15-2019, 12:09 AM   #1
Caroozo
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Talking Changing Reaper presets on different channels (live)

Hi,

I'd like to use KeyLab 61 to control several plugins (live). All of them are on different tracks and different channels. Some of them (Roland Cloud) HAVE to be controlled through Reaper presets, others (like Omnisphere) are fine, but Reaper presets are so useful that I want to use them for my entire setup. I did make preset list from different plugins, imported them to ReaControl MIDI, but I have the big problem I couldn't solve 'till now.

KeyLab (mk1) is configured so it send messages on Ch16, and change presets through pads (PC on Ch16 from 0 to 15 - already preconfigured). It works fine, to the moment when after changing patch I need to reroute MIDI to play just one VSTi. I saw that there were options in ReaControl MIDI under MIDI button, but somehow I can't get it to work.

1. Is it possible to do this that way? Or is there another simple solution?

2. If not, maybe there are some macros, triggered through CC? I can program KeyLab as I want, so no problem to make pads send CC or any other messages.

3. I still didn't used SWS plugins on purpose - I'd like to find solution in vanilla Reaper, unless it's impossible. If so, I'll be grateful if someone could help poor soul and send me simple solution .

I'm musician, not a programmer, I know a thing or two about computers (since Atari 65XE and DOS era ), but it's a little too much for me. I play mainly live in jazz band, and want to use several plugins for live gigs. For now, I use my RD700GX and change presets through different MIDI Channels, but want to do it on KeyLab for solos/pads/brasses. I know I'm missing something...

P.S. One more thing - I found a solution to send SysEx messages on KeyLab screen:
https://forum.arturia.com/index.php?topic=90496.0
But when I tried it, the screen flickered with the text sended by Reaper and parameters shown by KeyLab. Maybe something to do with the way Reaper sends messages? It works on AnalogLab just fine, it's plain SysEx so I dunno what's wrong. It should be nice to implement it in Reaper (as ReaControl MIDI has this function), but it's optional. Maybe someone have some experience and could give me a hint?

MANY thanks for any response! I'm kinda desperate to make things work
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Old 03-15-2019, 04:09 AM   #2
Regisfofo
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Well, I don't know if I'm gonna be any help as I'm not a specialist, but I think sws live configs could answer easily your problem, as it can both switch sends from a source track and preset from the receiver track with one cc change.

If you want to go 'vanilla' I don't know. I 've recently heard about something called reabanks in conjonction with reacontrolmidi you can investigate but I'm not sure about it.

Live configs much easier to set up and use (and is reliable) IMO.
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Old 03-15-2019, 05:19 AM   #3
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Aren't Reabanks designed for HW synths rather than software?

You might be right, there's no need to reinvent the wheel. I just want simple yet elegant solution and studying Reaper's functions already gave me a headache . I tried SWS once in the past, was stuck in the middle of making setup due to inability of my MIDI Controller to send dedicated CC... But KeyLab is a different story .

I'd be grateful for simple tutorial how to make my first preset step by step - I'm family man, have much work and when I finally have some time, it's 22 p.m. so not the best time to study complex things .

AD - as I understand, I can switch between presets, after sending dedicated CC, one track is active and other tracks are muted etc. That much I understand. But what about a situation, when I have sidechained at all time VST Goliath (saturation/tape/valve emulation), connected after all the plugins I use? The diagram is something like that:
KEYLAB---16CH---->INPUT ----->PLUGIN1 ]----> VST GOLIATH ----> OUTPUT
________________________----->PLUGIN2 ]--^
________________________----->PLUGIN3 ]--^
________________________----->PLUGIN4 ]--^

Last edited by Caroozo; 03-15-2019 at 05:31 AM.
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:28 AM   #4
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3. I still didn't used SWS plugins on purpose - I'd like to find solution in vanilla Reaper,
This to me does not make any sense at all. The VSTs you intend to use also are not "vanilla Reaper", either. Do you have a dedicated argument against using SWS ? (I posted some explanations about LiveConfigs in the other thread you started.)

In fact Reaper is not "natively" intended to be a live playing tool. in the introductional thread here you'll find a list of several dedicated live VST playing tools that might - or might not - fit your needs without any programming or use of additional plugins (but the sound engines).

-Michael
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:40 AM   #5
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This to me does not make any sense at all. Do you have a dedicated argument against using SWS ? (I posted some explanations about LiveConfigs in the other thread you stared.)

-Michael
Well, I just wanted to know if it's possible without SWS . Just now I tried simple Live Config through newest SWS and... It works. Just works . Hm, maybe my first experience with SWS was kinda hard... But there's another problem.

I use my HP 2170p with i5 3427U. I used Roland Cloud plugins (not optimized at all, using CPU cycles even when inactive or - in this case - muted. CPU is enough for one plugin at once (maybe with sidechained Goliath), and shutting inactive tracks helped to save CPU, but instead of shutting plugins down (with power button near green FX) it disconnected plugins. Not only it takes a while for the plugin to be ready again, it sometimes won't turn on (especially those pesky Roland Cloud's VSTi).

Is there a way to automatize to switch plugins off instead of muting them? I normally use i7 4810MQ with enough horsepower to run several plugins at once, but I want to use this little brat (2170p) for less demanding projects .

Another thing - can I send names of tracks as SysEx to my KeyLab? And is there a possibility to switch the list up/down using knob, or it has to be exact CC? Sorry for noob questions .
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:40 AM   #6
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AI tried SWS once in the past, was stuck in the middle of making setup due to inability of my MIDI Controller to send dedicated CC...
I've been there some years ago, as well

That is why I wrote an update to the original LiveConfigs documentation. (See the introductional thread here.) The trick is use SWS MidiToReaControlPath and MidiCCToPS (or Reapack->MidiConvertToCC).

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Old 03-15-2019, 07:42 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
In fact Reaper is not "natively" intended to be a live playing tool. in the introductional thread here you'll find a list of several dedicated live VST playing tools that might - or might not - fit your needs without any programming or use of additional plugins (but the sound engines).

-Michael
Don't get me wrong - I LOVE Reaper, it's the DAW of choice for over 10 years (I tried Cantabile and others, but Reaper beats them all price-wise and with funcionality overall). I just didn't wanted to mess too much around - but it seems SWS is well-tailored now and it just make the work done .
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:44 AM   #8
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(not optimized at all, using CPU cycles even when inactive or - in this case - muted.
If the track is muted, I am rather sure that it can't use CPU cycles. And this is exactly what LiveConfigs does.

But this is why LiveConfigs performs a rather hard switch.

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Originally Posted by Caroozo View Post
Is there a way to automatize to switch plugins off instead of muting them?
Yep, even with delayed track muting to save CPU.

If you want a "spill over" multiple tracks playing at the same time for a while, there are other tools I uploaded to ReaPack, but those are by far not as handy to be configured as LiveConfigs is. (Again see the introductional thread.)

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Old 03-15-2019, 07:55 AM   #9
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Another thing - can I send names of tracks as SysEx to my KeyLab? And is there a possibility to switch the list up/down using knob, or it has to be exact CC? .
Of course you can. But supposedly this needs some Reasper script / JSFX programming and complex configuration.

(I am just planning to do something like this, but as my controller surface (a Behringer XTouch Compact) does not feature a text display, I am thinking about using a n additional small USB aware OLED screen).

AFAIR, SWS provides reaper actions to switch LiveConfigs "Lines" up and down. So this should be rather easily doable by binding a CC to such an action. But of course the comntrol surface device might get out of sync when doing so.

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Old 03-15-2019, 09:08 AM   #10
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If the track is muted, I am rather sure that it can't use CPU cycles.
Roland Cloud plugins are known for their poor performance - even when muted (VSTi 3) they did use resources. I put D50, Juno 106, JV 1080 and Jupiter 8 on different tracks, used SWS Live Config and poof - drops/glitches (on i5 3427U). Any of them works just fine when played alone, but if they are not turned off (instead of muting, de-arming on track) they use CPU. Roland still didn't fixed it - and many other things too like Program Change messages. There's where Reaper shines, enabling those stubborn plugins to work as it should be .

And about LCD screen for that purpose - brilliant idea! I was looking for something like that. I'd like to make VSTi box (so no need to carry notebook + interface + cables on the stage) and all I need is tiny display to show me which preset I'm using. I'm planning to use that beauty:
https://eu.mimomonitors.com//products/mimo-magic-touch
They are cheap second-hand (50 Euro or so), work through USB and have touchscreen. There are 1024x600 and 1280x800 variants - excellent on stage . There's even 7" 800x480 model. I think it's better, unless someone can make DIY sets or ready2go displays AND proper software implementation.
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:43 PM   #11
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Here is how I would set it up:

Be sure that 'do not process fx when track is muted' is set on in the preferences

In live configs set up the input track with your midi keyboard (it must be set as input midi device in preferences)
You should dock sws live config to have a visual feedback (there is a handy optional big display window to show where you are)

for convenience you could even set two custom actions :
one for live config activate action :

- hide selected tracks from tcp
- Open/close UI for fx1 on last touched track

an another one for deactivation action :

- Focus main windows, close others
- hide selected tracks from tcp

And you will be able to switch from one track to another without the feeling of a heavy session...

Once done don't forget to save your project as project template to easily start another song and, you're done...

Hope it helps!
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:52 PM   #12
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And about LCD screen for that purpose ...
I fear LCD is not clear enough for a "stage" situation. That is why I have been searching for OLED. I recently did find a small OLED display with USB (and touch surface) connection (but without a housing for some € 100) -> https://shop.lcd-module.de/oled/usb-...ed-128x64.html
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Old 03-17-2019, 11:45 PM   #13
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Hm, but that kind of display will need additional drivers and integration with Reaper. And the price + shipping cost + time needed to make it work is almost on par with decent used notebook or 1/2 cost of 10" touchscreen which works out of the box.

I have that stand:
https://www.musicexpress.pl/pl/produ...zowy-bk-czarny
I can mount to it wide array of add-ons, for notebook, iPad or even for sheet music. It should be no problem at all to mount 10" screen... or OLED . I wear glasses for quite some time and tiny screens are no-go for me, even the best ones.
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Old 03-18-2019, 08:07 AM   #14
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The Notebook still is LCD and not OLED .

The Display is controlled by a serial port via USB. So you are right, I'd need to do some software that is accessed by Reaper via Midi and sends out appropriate commands to the display via a virtual COM port in the OS.

The display is about 2" wide, and I would display just two lines of text as big as possible.

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Old 03-18-2019, 08:18 AM   #15
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but if they are not turned off (instead of muting, de-arming on track) they use CPU. Roland still didn't fixed it -
Hmm.

With VST 2, if a track is muted, Reaper (if configured to do so - which it is by default) does not create "Sample" events towards the plugin. In that case a "normal" plugin would not do anything at all. I understand if it really wants to do anything between such events, it would need to create an OS thread especially for this purpose.

I did not check into this for VST3s, here the communication between the DAW and the plugin might be different, but I did not yet hear that VST3s generally are not able to adhere to the track Mute state.
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