Of course a tool like Cubase's variaudio would be just right for voice tweaking stuff. But I saw videos with Meodyne do completely different stuff like creating a tempo map, modify the sound of dedicated voices in a multi-voice track, ...
I guess to an engineer, all tuners are equal. But to a composer/songwriter, when you can reach into a polyphonic performance and change chord qualities and voicings, convert polyphonic performances into midi, map tempo etc. there is NO comparison to reatune or any other tuner. ARA makes this easily accessible in-place within the arrange window.
Somebody needs to send him some bad recorded material and pay him to mix it
good idea, but I took the money and bought melodyne studio instead. I'll have to have a look at studio one. I love reaper, but a perfect melodyne access is essential for me.
I'm actually breaking between studio one and reaper, cause of ara for melodyne/vocalign, this saves shittons of time and I'm so sad that there's no info about this feature coming to reaper, cause I need this so bad, lol
I really don't understand why, but even tracktion/mixcraft/sonar/whatever have at least melodyne ara now, eeeh
I'm actually breaking between studio one and reaper, cause of ara for melodyne/vocalign, this saves shittons of time and I'm so sad that there's no info about this feature coming to reaper, cause I need this so bad, lol
I really don't understand why, but even tracktion/mixcraft/sonar/whatever have at least melodyne ara now, eeeh
u r not alone my friend, but i stuck with reaper totally, just using melo as insert and my ass on fire
Cost of a complicated to implement new feature that only benefits people who already own Melodyne. And not just implement it, but keep it working with future updates of Melodyne... (If Cockos wanted to include the very feature poor Melodyne Essential together with Reaper, that would probably imply some financial burden for Cockos. Implementing ARA however does not require the host developer to bundle Melodyne Essential.)
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“As for ARA, well, we'll see (but generally speaking the cost/benefit of adding ARA is way too high).”
Tell me it ain’t so!
DAW’s with ARA
Studio One
Sonar
Samplitude
Waveform was Tracktion
Mixcraft
I hope Reaper does not wait for Version 6 to implement ARA.
And
on the positive side of this matter Melodyne 4.1 is worth the feature request
and to plead, I mean beg the powers that be to implement ARA.
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Windows 10 64 bit, Reaper 6, Waves Horizon, Komplete 12, Iris 2, Some Melda, PSP, SonoKinetic, Eventide, Blue Cat Audio, Homegrown.
- Adoption isn't exaclty burning uncontained through plugin development shops but it's not just for Melodyne. The implications of it apply to any plugin that could benefit from it, like Vocalign, which has it now also. The fact is, most audio plugns actually don't need to grab large chunks of audio from a host to process like Melodyne or Vocalign, so the potential or relative need for it (overall) is not huge.
- ARA is nothing but a plugin extension, I seriously doubt it will add much to the app size.
- Like someone already said, it's free. If Justin talked about cost he was likely speaking philosophically as relates to the cost in work to implement it in Reaper vs the benefit to him and his team.
Ignore the daw in this video. It could be Sonar or Tracktion or whatever, same thing.
Do you suggest that Vocalign uses the exact ARA specification, making ARA a kind of "Standard", maybe other VSTs might follow ? (Ahhh... this is approved in the video ).
Do you suggest that Vocalign uses the exact ARA specification, making ARA a kind of "Standard", maybe other VSTs might follow ? (Ahhh... this is approved in the video ).
-Michael
There's hardly anything Melodyne specific in the ARA SDK. (Except for the code examples to load the Melodyne plugin and do the ARA thing.) ARA is just an API to use with plugins and hosts with certain capabilities. ARA plugins are a complete pain to do though, maybe even more pain than hosting ARA capable plugins.
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What X-Man said: That building in support for it might be more trouble than the developers here are willing to deal with in the short term. I'd defer to X's judgement on that because he has the SDK and he's a knowledgeable C++ developer.
All the other stuff, that it might cause more bugs, whatever, is mostly just noise.
Anyway, if you are a post editor using Vocalign it's - very clearly - a more efficient way to work, what that video shows.
That's the thing though, even if Reaper's AudioAccessor is a better design, it's Reaper specific. If you're a plugin developer would you support an API that only one host supports or one that many more supports? (assuming the thing above is open for anyone to use)
In that regard it's not really about which is better, it's about which one is more supported. Even if X is correct that it's difficult to implement, it's still the only one that multiple host are currently supporting.
In what way? Are you saying Reaper's AudioAccessor is much handier?
Yeah that API in Reaper is much simpler for that particular purpose than ARA. However, ARA isn't just about transferring audio offline from the host into the plugin, there are other things like passing analysis results back into the host, using the ARA plugin as a replacement for the host's time stretch/pitch shift capabilities, undo history integration and so on. (What makes ARA such an involved thing to do is mostly about that other stuff. There is obviously pressure to support as much as possible, when other hosts or plugins support those things too.)
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This was all probably already said up-thread somewhere...
REAPER's AudioAccessor is almost literally a basic ARA implementation. But ARA also defines dozens of other interfaces for the host to implement. Presumably the Melodyne plug-in uses all of those interfaces, or else they wouldn't be in the spec. Implementing ARA thoroughly requires doing a lot of stuff that is not directly related to giving the plug-in access to samples.
There's no dollar cost to implementing ARA, the people at Celemony are friendly and helpful, there's no hidden agenda, there are no hidden costs. In theory there could eventually be a whole ecosystem of plugins that use ARA. But at the moment it's effectively just one or two plugins.
So the question on our end has always been, do we do a bunch of implementation, compatibility, and support work for one or two specific plugins. I get that people who use those plugins really want the support in REAPER, but it's still just one or two plugins.
There's no dollar cost to implementing ARA (...) do we do a bunch of implementation, compatibility, and support work for one or two specific plugins.
So, yeah, time IS money.
I'm thinking this is not something that will happen middle-of-the-road. If Cockos decides to do it, I suspect it would be a major release headline (v6, say).
I'm thinking this is not something that will happen middle-of-the-road. If Cockos decides to do it, I suspect it would be a major release headline (v6, say).
From what I have read it seems that there are degrees of ARA implementation. Studio One 3 and Sonar Platinum are complete I believe. Samplitude is not. Correct? How about Mixmaster and Waveform. Is the ARA fully implemented?
This was all probably already said up-thread somewhere...
REAPER's AudioAccessor is almost literally a basic ARA implementation. But ARA also defines dozens of other interfaces for the host to implement. Presumably the Melodyne plug-in uses all of those interfaces, or else they wouldn't be in the spec. Implementing ARA thoroughly requires doing a lot of stuff that is not directly related to giving the plug-in access to samples.
There's no dollar cost to implementing ARA, the people at Celemony are friendly and helpful, there's no hidden agenda, there are no hidden costs. In theory there could eventually be a whole ecosystem of plugins that use ARA. But at the moment it's effectively just one or two plugins.
So the question on our end has always been, do we do a bunch of implementation, compatibility, and support work for one or two specific plugins. I get that people who use those plugins really want the support in REAPER, but it's still just one or two plugins.
but people asked about ARA mostely becoze thay need tools for pitch correction, atleast i think so.
REAPER already have spectral peaks, specral edit's, maybe it is possible to add sort of "Pitch Peacks" or something like that ?
melodyne does much more than just correcting pitch. I'm think of formant shifting, pitching multiple melodies at once, setting the timing of one track as reference and adjust different other tracks to it and so on. It's a seperate world of audio editing, REAPER cannot cover. So having some pitch tools would be nice for some users but not cover the range of functions of melodyne at all. Melodyne is a audio industry standard, so REAPER would definitly benefit from supporting it ...
So the question on our end has always been, do we do a bunch of implementation, compatibility, and support work for one or two specific plugins. I get that people who use those plugins really want the support in REAPER, but it's still just one or two plugins.
Yep. That's what I tried to express earlier, that the main (visible or most obvious) benefits to how ARA is currently being used does not, by and large, apply to most audio plugins, so the potential use cases (at least so far) are subjectively limited.
When I first saw it appear in Studio One way back one of my first thoughts was...
Quote:
"Man... it would be so damn cool if products like Adobe or Wavelab or Sound Forge (great audio editors, all) eventually made ARA capable plugin versions of their editors, where you could "Edit With Audition" and have the Audition audio editor appear in a docked daw editor window like Melodyne, if you owned Audition."
That's what partly made that initial implementation seem so great, that it literally feels like part of the daw, not a third party application.
Well, today the studio manager fielded a call from a potential client, and the deal breaker was Melodyne. I can't say I'm a big fan of auto-tune, but I understand that auto-tune and its other functions are popular right now. On one hand, we use Reaper because it's so flexible. But in this case, it's literally losing clients for the studio. I do hope for ARA support, but can understand the reasoning for not supporting it at this time. You say it's only one or two plugins, but it's a pretty big plugin at this point in time.
Well, today the studio manager fielded a call from a potential client, and the deal breaker was Melodyne. I can't say I'm a big fan of auto-tune, but I understand that auto-tune and its other functions are popular right now. On one hand, we use Reaper because it's so flexible. But in this case, it's literally losing clients for the studio. I do hope for ARA support, but can understand the reasoning for not supporting it at this time. You say it's only one or two plugins, but it's a pretty big plugin at this point in time.
Melodyne already runs in Reaper, without the ARA support. And in this case you could just be thankful because you could charge more because of the realtime audio transfers you need to do into the Melodyne plugin! (This is a variation of the joke why the realtime only rendering/bouncing in Pro Tools wasn't actually that bad.)
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Melodyne already runs in Reaper, without the ARA support. And in this case you could just be thankful because you could charge more because of the realtime audio transfers you need to do into the Melodyne plugin! (This is a variation of the joke why the realtime only rendering/bouncing in Pro Tools wasn't actually that bad.)
Hehe, yeah, tell me about those realtime PT bounces! Honestly, a lot of my younger clients are pretty experienced with the capabilities of Melodyne. They come to us for the vintage Neumann and RCA mics, old tube preamps, etc.
I have recently been learning Reaper in more depth and have come to the conclusion it is the daw I want to use at this time and am in the process of adapting my workflow to it, the first thing that I think is missing and I would very much like to see added to Reaper is ARA integration, I think it's very much needed.
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