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10-01-2014, 11:13 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 534
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mixdown using hardware console & Reaper
Can anyone give me a heads up here as im kinda stuck
Im using an Allen & heath gsr-24 console & not sure how to best set up Reapers routing for mixdown & mastering
Also im not sure whether to route via Reapers Master/parent send OR the hardware outputs ive been told it's best to turn Master / parent off
for mixdown ive been routing via the console & back into a stereo ch in Reaper with OK results
The problem im finding is that im pegging meters in the analogue chain & anything i place on Reapers Master bus within the project effects the analogue meters in a bad way unless i turn down the mix to a very low level
My mixing levels are not over loud OR ridiculous
Im sure this is just a routing issue that im not getting to grips with
Anyone that can help me here would be much appreciated
Last edited by manley; 10-01-2014 at 11:25 AM.
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10-01-2014, 12:26 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Norway
Posts: 7,318
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What's your interface?
Do send out buses only,
or every individual track?
I guess you sum on your analog board?
Disabling parent send for every track you send out makes sense.
And those will be routed to pairs of your interface, 16ch needed for 8 stereo buses out.
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Reaper x64, win 11
Composer, text-writer, producer
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10-01-2014, 12:48 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Sun
What's your interface?
Do send out buses only,
or every individual track?
I guess you sum on your analog board?
Disabling parent send for every track you send out makes sense.
And those will be routed to pairs of your interface, 16ch needed for 8 stereo buses out.
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Interface meaning console
Allen & heath gsr-24 great hybrid console can't get to grips with Reapers routing though especially for Mastering
everything goes through the console either master buss or valve buss
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10-01-2014, 01:34 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: near Memphis, TN
Posts: 531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manley
Interface meaning console
Allen & heath gsr-24 great hybrid console can't get to grips with Reapers routing though especially for Mastering
everything goes through the console either master buss or valve buss
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Mastering - I would send stereo track hardware out into the console (Master/Parent send unchecked) and then record the console Mains back into Reaper while only monitoring this single track.
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10-01-2014, 01:45 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 7,942
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Hello Manley, I've not read the manual for that console, but I reckon the levels will be something like -20 to -16 dB FSD for 0dB on its channels. That might seem low, but it's actually normal levels and you'll actually need some gain on your monitoring to bring that up to a decent sound level.
Given me a little while and I can get on the web and look at the manual for you, but I bet I'm in the ball park.
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10-01-2014, 01:54 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine
Hello Manley, I've not read the manual for that console, but I reckon the levels will be something like -20 to -16 dB FSD for 0dB on its channels. That might seem low, but it's actually normal levels and you'll actually need some gain on your monitoring to bring that up to a decent sound level.
Given me a little while and I can get on the web and look at the manual for you, but I bet I'm in the ball park.
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Hi Nathan
Great!! i appreciate that once i get the basic setup i'll be fine,at the moment im going around in circles
wanted to mention that ive been routing my mix through the valve channel on the console with the valve knobs off reason being if i go via the master bus with vu the meters are slamming can O worms & headaches
im waiting for a response from heath regarding another issue but that's another story LOL
Last edited by manley; 10-01-2014 at 02:04 PM.
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10-01-2014, 11:38 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Norway
Posts: 7,318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manley
Interface meaning console
Allen & heath gsr-24 great hybrid console can't get to grips with Reapers routing though especially for Mastering
everything goes through the console either master buss or valve buss
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Ok, I see. I'm not familiar with such a pro setup
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Reaper x64, win 11
Composer, text-writer, producer
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10-01-2014, 11:45 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Norway
Posts: 7,318
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A picture of your Routing Matrix is always helpful.
And your actual send levels in dbfs.
Then it's a matter of gain-calibration.
Your analogue out/inn 0dbvu should have an an equal in dbfs digital, stated in the manual.
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Reaper x64, win 11
Composer, text-writer, producer
Bandcamp
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10-01-2014, 01:26 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jazz City
Posts: 5,074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manley
The problem im finding is that im pegging meters in the analogue chain & anything i place on Reapers Master bus within the project effects the analogue meters in a bad way unless i turn down the mix to a very low level
My mixing levels are not over loud OR ridiculous
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I do it that way:
- I set up folder tracks (with icons/colour) with the respective hardware outputs - NO master/parent send of course
- I then just drag the tracks that I want to route to e.g. console channel 5-6 into the folder track
I don't understand why levels are culminating that much. What is a "non-ridicoulous" level for you? And what is a "very low level"?
EDIT: why do you place anything at all on Reapers MASTER bus??? Your master is the console's stereo buss!?!?
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Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2100 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.3.8 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x
"If I can hear well, then everything I do is right" (Allen Sides)
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10-01-2014, 01:43 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beingmf
I do it that way:
- I set up folder tracks (with icons/colour) with the respective hardware outputs - NO master/parent send of course
- I then just drag the tracks that I want to route to e.g. console channel 5-6 into the folder track
I don't understand why levels are culminating that much. What is a "non-ridicoulous" level for you? And what is a "very low level"?
EDIT: "why do you place anything at all on Reapers MASTER bus??? Your master is the console's stereo buss!?!?"
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Ive been mixing in the daw & then routing out to the console during mixdown
I have the Klanghelm vumt meter at -18dbfs for mix levels
Ive then summed the mix through the console & back into Reaper with OK results
Ive recently taken up a mastering course which is great BUT can't work out how id process the mix in the daw & master it & configure this in Reaper
I want to use plugins during the mastering process
"why do you place anything at all on Reapers MASTER bus???"
This was during Mastering & experimenting
Im not claiming to be any sort of expert here just looking for help
Im experimenting & getting to grips with everything at the moment
Last edited by manley; 10-01-2014 at 01:49 PM.
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10-01-2014, 01:53 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jazz City
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OK - how hot is the input gain on the console channels? When I am monitoring a close-to-0dbFS limited master, I turn down my gain pots to the minimum. That way the channels won't clip.
If this is what you mean.
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Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2100 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.3.8 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x
"If I can hear well, then everything I do is right" (Allen Sides)
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10-01-2014, 01:58 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beingmf
OK - how hot is the input gain on the console channels? When I am monitoring a close-to-0dbFS limited master, I turn down my gain pots to the minimum. That way the channels won't clip.
If this is what you mean.
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Hi
Sorry i don't follow
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10-01-2014, 01:29 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: near Memphis, TN
Posts: 531
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I use my 32 channel desk for analog summing and mixdown. I can tell you what I do but I will say that this is a very personal issue based on one's personal workflow.
I route all audio OUT of the Reaper via the Hardware Outs with the Master/Parent send unchecked on the channels that are hardware out. This allows me to use the console for EQ, Panning, and Summing, but still utilize Reaper for automation. The way that I have my system setup, I route out to desk channels 1-28. Those feed the stereo mains on the console, which feeds an additional channel on the console. This channel is used as an INPUT in Reaper which is monitored and sends to the Master/Parent to the Reaper Master. So on Mixdown, I record the incoming channel as a stereo track.
(I enjoy the opportunity use hardware and software with this arrangement. Some will argue about the hit that I take on conversion. I take that hit gladly because I feel that the benefits of summing and recall abilities outweigh the issue. That's my opinion though.)
Let's say that I have lead vocals, I would uncheck the Master/Parent and send it hardware out to Channel 1.
If I have a group of instruments that I want to buss togther, you can go about it in a variety of ways. I use this setup on drums:
Kick, Snare, Toms, OH, etc... hardware outs to lay across the desk. I do not uncheck the Master/Parent send. Then I take the DRUM buss in Reaper and send it hardware out and uncheck THAT Master/Parent send.
Another option would be to send them to the desk and THEN route the drums to a desk buss. Whatever you need for your project.
You mentioned your gain structure... this is CRITICAL when going in and out of hardware. I check EVERY channel with a tone to line up Reaper's -18dBfs to the hardware 0VU. When mixing, I set my faders to unity and use the Reaper faders to control the output.
I'm not sure what you mean by: "anything i place on Reapers Master bus within the project effects the analogue meters in a bad way unless i turn down the mix to a very low level" Could you explain more?
In my setup above, the only thing hitting the Reaper Master is the single Stereo track from the desk. If I need to make an adjustment to hit -18dBfs on the Reaper Master in order to use some emulation plugins at appropriate levels.
Keep asking questions. I love using Reaper this way.
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10-01-2014, 01:52 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpanderson80
I'm not sure what you mean by: "anything i place on Reapers Master bus within the project effects the analogue meters in a bad way unless i turn down the mix to a very low level" Could you explain more?
Keep asking questions. I love using Reaper this way.
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Hi This was happening during my mastering experimenting course i had the parent / send checked & any plugin on the mst bus caused the analogue mast bus to clip hence my confusion as to how id do this
Im kinda pretty confused with it all
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10-01-2014, 02:39 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: near Memphis, TN
Posts: 531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manley
Hi This was happening during my mastering experimenting course i had the parent / send checked & any plugin on the mst bus caused the analogue mast bus to clip hence my confusion as to how id do this
Im kinda pretty confused with it all
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So, you are inserting a plugin on the REAPER Master... then the audio is routed out to your console on a channel, say 1-2. And Console Channels 1 & 2, are still routed to the Console Master which is getting slammed. Is that correct?
If so... you are so close to a solution! If the above is correct try this: turn the Reaper MASTER hardware output down to -18dBfs (or whatever you need for your console specs). This will drive Console channels 1 & 2 to 0vu and THEN it will push your Console Mains into the sweet spot at unity as well.
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10-01-2014, 02:54 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpanderson80
So, you are inserting a plugin on the REAPER Master... then the audio is routed out to your console on a channel, say 1-2. And Console Channels 1 & 2, are still routed to the Console Master which is getting slammed. Is that correct?
If so... you are so close to a solution! If the above is correct try this: turn the Reaper MASTER hardware output down to -18dBfs (or whatever you need for your console specs). This will drive Console channels 1 & 2 to 0vu and THEN it will push your Console Mains into the sweet spot at unity as well.
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Hi
regarding Mastering i had the stereo mix in reaper which was routed out to the console master buss ch 29/30
Also i had vst plugins on the master bus which made the analogue channel unhappy
I returned the stereo mix back into reaper & noticed clipping noise
so i guess im saying im trying to master my mix which makes the analogue ch unhappy but i need to raise the level to get a decent master but im not sure how configure this yet
Alot of head scratching
Last edited by manley; 10-01-2014 at 03:00 PM.
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10-02-2014, 07:13 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: near Memphis, TN
Posts: 531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manley
Hi
regarding Mastering i had the stereo mix in reaper which was routed out to the console master buss ch 29/30
Also i had vst plugins on the master bus which made the analogue channel unhappy
I returned the stereo mix back into reaper & noticed clipping noise
so i guess im saying im trying to master my mix which makes the analogue ch unhappy but i need to raise the level to get a decent master but im not sure how configure this yet
Alot of head scratching
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From what I can tell, your issues are associated with gain staging. The Reaper channel hitting at -18dBfs is roughly equal to 0dBvu on your console. So any plugins that you have on your channel that boost the signal to just under zero dBfs inside Reaper would be likely beyond what the console likes to see. You'll have to set up the send level to take this into consideration.
If you are using hardware in your mastering chain, then the gain staging is worth the battle. If you are only using plugins in your mastering chain, then I recommend staying ITB for the process.
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