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Old 06-11-2019, 01:40 PM   #1
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Default Setting Up Hardware Send/Return in REAPER & MOTU Audio Control

Does anyone have a simple way of setting up a send and return to hardware in MOTU's pro audio please?
Thanks in advance.
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Old 06-11-2019, 01:44 PM   #2
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Do you have the AVB version of motu's routing, or the earlier one?

And, do you have your hardware connected to the interface, or anything?
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Old 06-11-2019, 01:52 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poetnprophet View Post
Do you have the AVB version of motu's routing, or the earlier one?

And, do you have your hardware connected to the interface, or anything?
Yes, I have an 828es with the web browser mixer and I've attached a mono/mono tube device with jack leads. I've connected audio 7 out and audio 7 in on the back panel and I'm getting nothing, so I guess it's the mixer web page I'm not used to.

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Old 06-11-2019, 02:23 PM   #4
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yes you are on the right track. I have that same interface, it is wonderful. once you get used to the routing, life will never be the same. Im not in front of it now but i'll try to help:

Make sure that the input on the Tube device is connected to the output 7 on the Motu. The output of the tube should go to the Input 7 on the Motu.

The routing can be complex, but let's just focus on the basics. On the top of the columns, the leftmost side columns should be Analog inputs. The upper Rows should be Analog outputs. You want to "connect" Analog input 7 to Analog Output 7. Click the box that corresponds to this spot on the matrix. This should route signal to this device.

So, you need signal to this device. Take a track with signal, create a hardware send to Motu Output 7, you should get signal to your tube device.

Then, if you want to hear the output, you will need to create a track, arm for recording, set monitor input, and set the input to Motu Input 7 (you can even label this inside motu as something like "tube device" so it will show up that way inside reaper)
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Old 06-11-2019, 02:34 PM   #5
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Thank you so much for this help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by poetnprophet View Post

So, you need signal to this device. Take a track with signal, create a hardware send to Motu Output 7,
This is the problem. When I go to create a hardware send, there is no Output 7, just this:

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Old 06-11-2019, 03:29 PM   #6
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I see. I remember running into something similar, but can't remember how to get out of it. I'll check later tonight when I'm in the studio.

can you also post a pic of your motu routing?
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:15 AM   #7
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I fixed it. It took a little time this morning with a clear head. I'm not used to that form of matrix routing.

Thanks for all your help, I really appreciate it. Have a great week!
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:17 AM   #8
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Very good, what did you do differently?
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Old 06-13-2019, 03:40 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by poetnprophet View Post
Very good, what did you do differently?
Well, I had read in several reviews that the new routing can be a bit confusing.
I got a good night's sleep then began new in the morning and the routing logic made more sense. I followed your method and it worked great. I don't know why it didn't work earlier but it's all good now. Mark it down to fatigue and excitement (and my human error).

Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it. Have a great weekend!
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Old 10-21-2020, 03:31 PM   #10
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Default ReaInsert?

Hi I'm also using an 828es with Reaper. I used ReaInsert so far for routing to Motu for analog gear connected to it. It works, but what I find very strange is that I still hear the audio when I turn off the physical gear. I think the chain is as follows, maybe someone can confirm or correct?

Reaper track -> reainsert send -> Motu USB input from Mac -> motu analog output to gear -> gear processing -> motu analog input from gear -> motu USB output to Mac -> reainsert return -> Reaper track (processed).

How is it possible that the audio still plays when I turn the physical gear off? The mix is 100% wet in ReaInsert.

Is there a reason you guys dont use ReaInsert for analog I/O with Motu?

Thanks!
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Old 10-21-2020, 03:41 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Retro Audio Enthusiast View Post
Well, I had read in several reviews that the new routing can be a bit confusing.
I got a good night's sleep then began new in the morning and the routing logic made more sense. I followed your method and it worked great. I don't know why it didn't work earlier but it's all good now. Mark it down to fatigue and excitement (and my human error).

Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it. Have a great weekend!
This works for me as well but... I have latency issues. How did you solve these? Thanks!
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Old 10-22-2020, 09:48 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trifonius View Post
Hi I'm also using an 828es with Reaper. I used ReaInsert so far for routing to Motu for analog gear connected to it. It works, but what I find very strange is that I still hear the audio when I turn off the physical gear. I think the chain is as follows, maybe someone can confirm or correct?

Reaper track -> reainsert send -> Motu USB input from Mac -> motu analog output to gear -> gear processing -> motu analog input from gear -> motu USB output to Mac -> reainsert return -> Reaper track (processed).

How is it possible that the audio still plays when I turn the physical gear off? The mix is 100% wet in ReaInsert.

Is there a reason you guys dont use ReaInsert for analog I/O with Motu?

Thanks!
Does the MOTU provide its own mixer/control panel which could interfere with Reaper's routing?

.
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Old 10-22-2020, 10:41 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trifonius View Post
Hi I'm also using an 828es with Reaper. I used ReaInsert so far for routing to Motu for analog gear connected to it. It works, but what I find very strange is that I still hear the audio when I turn off the physical gear. I think the chain is as follows, maybe someone can confirm or correct?

Reaper track -> reainsert send -> Motu USB input from Mac -> motu analog output to gear -> gear processing -> motu analog input from gear -> motu USB output to Mac -> reainsert return -> Reaper track (processed).

How is it possible that the audio still plays when I turn the physical gear off? The mix is 100% wet in ReaInsert.

Is there a reason you guys dont use ReaInsert for analog I/O with Motu?

Thanks!
Hi depends on a lot. That is likely how you expect the signal chain to process but we need to know what you're doing exactly. How else is the project structured with folders/busses? Do you have anything else going to those same channels? is it the SAME sound you hear with the gear on and off? which would indicate you're not routing correctly and not even using the gear. If it's different sounding, then it means you have a pre-fx send of some sort to the master (or after that processing) still routed to the master (or after that processing)
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Old 10-23-2020, 12:50 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by trifonius View Post
This works for me as well but... I have latency issues. How did you solve these? Thanks!
I didn't have the relevant inputs & outputs enabled within the MOTU.
You need to go into the MOTU Pro Audio Control web browser and select Device> Launch Quick Setup> then choose to use as Interface & Mixer.

Start REAPER and all the inputs & Outputs are listed.

Also for latency, a buffer of 256 works great for me. I think you get about 8ms latency with no audio pops or cracks.
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Old 10-24-2020, 02:43 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by poetnprophet View Post
Hi depends on a lot. That is likely how you expect the signal chain to process but we need to know what you're doing exactly. How else is the project structured with folders/busses? Do you have anything else going to those same channels? is it the SAME sound you hear with the gear on and off? which would indicate you're not routing correctly and not even using the gear. If it's different sounding, then it means you have a pre-fx send of some sort to the master (or after that processing) still routed to the master (or after that processing)
Thanks so much for your help! Ive been in contact with motu these days but it more and more looks like something is happening Reaper that we don't expect.

I made my setup as simple as possible to identify the behavior. I have a stereo track that has ReaInsert on it. This routes to a stereo hardware eq. As soon as I plug these cables in, I get signal back, also when the unit is turned off. When I turn the unit on, the sound changes and it actually works. What totally surprises me is that signal gets passed to a turned off unit. Nothing else is going through these same channels. Your help is very very welcome and appreciated!

Quote:
Originally Posted by poetnprophet View Post
If it's different sounding, then it means you have a pre-fx send of some sort to the master (or after that processing) still routed to the master (or after that processing)
How can I check this? I don't see anything strange here

Last edited by trifonius; 10-24-2020 at 02:56 AM.
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Old 10-24-2020, 02:45 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro Audio Enthusiast View Post
I didn't have the relevant inputs & outputs enabled within the MOTU.
You need to go into the MOTU Pro Audio Control web browser and select Device> Launch Quick Setup> then choose to use as Interface & Mixer.

Start REAPER and all the inputs & Outputs are listed.

Also for latency, a buffer of 256 works great for me. I think you get about 8ms latency with no audio pops or cracks.
Thanks! I'll use those settings as well. The buffer is the Request block size setting in Preferences - Audio - Device right?
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Old 10-24-2020, 07:41 AM   #17
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Thanks! I'll use those settings as well. The buffer is the Request block size setting in Preferences - Audio - Device right?
No, change it directly from the pro audio browser. Click the ASIO Configuration button in REAPER Preferences / Audio / Device or just open the MOTU Pro Audio Control Browser window and change the Host Buffer Size.
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Old 10-24-2020, 08:17 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by SonicAxiom View Post
Does the MOTU provide its own mixer/control panel which could interfere with Reaper's routing?

.
Yes it does. Motu confirmed that my routing looked ok though and I tested it also with my saffirepro 40 and it gave the same results.

Reproduction scenario:

1. Wire analog compressor with cables to interface; interface Ins to compressor outs, interface Outs to compressor Ins
2. Create new Reaper project
3. Add one track with audio
4. Add ReaInsert to track; Send to channel routed to interface Outs, Receive from channel to interface Ins
5. Keep analog compressor physically turned off
6. Play: I hear sound from the track and the interface show signal from the Ins
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Old 10-24-2020, 08:11 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by trifonius View Post
Yes it does. Motu confirmed that my routing looked ok though and I tested it also with my saffirepro 40 and it gave the same results.

Reproduction scenario:

1. Wire analog compressor with cables to interface; interface Ins to compressor outs, interface Outs to compressor Ins
2. Create new Reaper project
3. Add one track with audio
4. Add ReaInsert to track; Send to channel routed to interface Outs, Receive from channel to interface Ins
5. Keep analog compressor physically turned off
6. Play: I hear sound from the track and the interface show signal from the Ins
This is strange. I'm constantly using ReaInsert without getting "ghost" signals or other side effects so it should work correctly if set up correctly. Regarding the input signal while the compressor is actually powered off: Depending on the compressor, it may have a hard bypass feature which passes audio through it while the unit is powered off (just a thought). My Purple Audio MC77's a doing this.

.
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Old 10-25-2020, 12:29 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by SonicAxiom View Post
This is strange. I'm constantly using ReaInsert without getting "ghost" signals or other side effects so it should work correctly if set up correctly. Regarding the input signal while the compressor is actually powered off: Depending on the compressor, it may have a hard bypass feature which passes audio through it while the unit is powered off (just a thought). My Purple Audio MC77's a doing this.

.
Yes Im starting to think its normal behavior. At least for all my gear which are 5 different units from different brands. Is all your gear also simply passing dry signal when turned off?
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Old 10-25-2020, 01:31 AM   #21
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Yes Im starting to think its normal behavior. At least for all my gear which are 5 different units from different brands. Is all your gear also simply passing dry signal when turned off?
Edit: this doesn’t happen for my 500 series rack. Just for three different 19” units.
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Old 10-25-2020, 07:48 AM   #22
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Yes Im starting to think its normal behavior. At least for all my gear which are 5 different units from different brands. Is all your gear also simply passing dry signal when turned off?
no, not all of them. Did you test if you are getting "ghost signals" when you interrupt the analog path (either the cable from your interface's output to an analog device or the return going from an analog device's output back into your interface)?

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Old 10-25-2020, 11:13 AM   #23
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no, not all of them. Did you test if you are getting "ghost signals" when you interrupt the analog path (either the cable from your interface's output to an analog device or the return going from an analog device's output back into your interface)?

.
When i pull out the cables I get no signal. I think my 3A’s are really meant to pass signal when turned off, because when I turn them off the signal stops for a second and then I hear it come back again. My 500 series don’t pass signal when turned off so no sound then. Im starting to think my setup works as it’s meant to. Unless somebody has my gear and they don’t act like mine.
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:19 AM   #24
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Does the MOTU provide its own mixer/control panel which could interfere with Reaper's routing?

.
AFAIK, REAPER 'reads' audio inputs/outputs from whatever audio interface you have and lists them inside REAPER as routing options. There is no 'interference' as such.
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Old 10-26-2020, 07:03 AM   #25
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AFAIK, REAPER 'reads' audio inputs/outputs from whatever audio interface you have and lists them inside REAPER as routing options. There is no 'interference' as such.
I see. Just wanted to exclude the possibility that some kind of proprietary MOTU mixer (like TotalMix for RME devices) is messing up the otherwise simple in/out routing of ReaInsert in the background, causing audio to get where it shouldn't appear. I ran into the exact same issue with my RME stuff due to wrong routing in TotalMix.

.
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