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Old 06-09-2019, 07:59 AM   #41
tack
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I just want to underline that the issue I'm describing in this thread is a crash caused only when closing FX windows. Any other problem (and I've no doubt there are many) would be unrelated to this one.

It also seems to happen most frequently when I step away from my PC from a period of time. Usually when I get up in the morning, wake my PC, and then close a Kontakt FX window is when the probability increases drastically of a crash. But even that's inconsistent, as sometimes it will crash just while in the middle of an actively worked project.

Anyway, suffice it to say, it happened again this morning as I logged in (with Reaper still running). This stack trace is a little different in the most recent few frames. This and the previous crash intersect at Kontakt.dll!00007ffe6eed5f54(). It'd probably be really educational to know what that address resolves to.

This all mirrors what happened a couple years ago. At that time, I'd actually attached a breakpoint at that intersecting address, and indeed could trip it each time I closed the FX window. So that function, whatever it is, is clearly involved in unmapping the window, it's just that sometimes it crashes and sometimes it doesn't.

(Obviously then it was unrelated to multiprocessor support being enabled within Kontakt, since I reproduced the crash with that disabled. Which is good, because I wasn't too thrilled about the % RT CPU increase after having disabled it.)

Code:
Exception thrown at 0x00007FFE6EED0411 (Kontakt.dll) in reaper.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation reading location 0x0000000000000010.

Unhandled exception at 0x00007FFE6EED0411 (Kontakt.dll) in reaper.exe: 0xC000041D: An unhandled exception was encountered during a user callback.


>	Kontakt.dll!00007ffe6eed0411()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	Kontakt.dll!00007ffe6eed6569()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	Kontakt.dll!00007ffe6eed5f54()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	Kontakt.dll!00007ffe6ee9777f()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	Kontakt.dll!00007ffe6ee975c8()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	Kontakt.dll!00007ffe6ee97416()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	Kontakt.dll!00007ffe6eab88b6()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	Kontakt.dll!00007ffe6ea445bb()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	Kontakt.dll!00007ffe6ee4c96b()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	Kontakt.dll!00007ffe6e8eb6f4()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	Kontakt.dll!00007ffe6ee4bc61()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	Kontakt.dll!00007ffe6e977524()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	Kontakt.dll!00007ffe6e8e957d()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	Kontakt.dll!00007ffe6e8eb774()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	Kontakt.dll!00007ffe6ee90b15()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	Kontakt.dll!00007ffe6ee3b999()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	Kontakt.dll!00007ffe6ee3e663()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	Kontakt.dll!00007ffe6ee3e794()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	Kontakt.dll!00007ffe6ee3f117()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	Kontakt.dll!00007ffe6ee9570e()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	Kontakt.dll!00007ffe6ee3e1f8()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	reaper.exe!00000001407b6a1c()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	reaper.exe!00000001403236f2()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	reaper.exe!0000000140322ab5()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	reaper.exe!000000014032203d()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	[External Code]		Annotated Frame
 	reaper.exe!00000001407bd546()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	[External Code]		Annotated Frame
 	reaper.exe!00000001403221a8()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	reaper.exe!000000014032203d()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	[External Code]		Annotated Frame
 	reaper.exe!00000001407bd546()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	[External Code]		Annotated Frame
 	reaper.exe!0000000140384398()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	reaper.exe!00000001407eb051()	Unknown	No symbols loaded.
 	[External Code]		Annotated Frame

Last edited by tack; 06-09-2019 at 08:18 AM.
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Old 06-09-2019, 10:30 AM   #42
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I had a maybe unrelated but similar crash with Waldorf Largo, when removing the plugin it crashed Reaper completely. I narrowed it down to the plugin option "Inform plugin when number of track channels changes" (or something like that) being enabled. As soon as I disabled that option, no more crash. Not sure it applies here, but just mentioning it.

Also. one more thing: Kontakt and sleeping/waking the computer are also not very good friends.
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Old 06-09-2019, 10:44 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I narrowed it down to the plugin option "Inform plugin when number of track channels changes" (or something like that) being enabled.
I'm willing to try anything, but unfortunately that was already disabled for Kontakt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Also. one more thing: Kontakt and sleeping/waking the computer are also not very good friends.
Some apps don't get along with it very well, yes. But it's almost certainly unrelated since it happens at other times while actively using Reaper (like, for example, just 30 seconds ago ).
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Old 06-09-2019, 11:02 AM   #44
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I can't say 'never' but can say very rarely... then again don't often have a lot of instances loaded... I'm in a portable reaper FWIW

both omni and kontakt pretty stable

Oh and Win7 64

another friend who runs a lot of kontakt single instances on many tabs for live playing... never reported any problems either and he would cuz he can't have crashes
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:38 AM   #45
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Tack, can you get this to happen in a project that solely has Kontakt instances and no other plugins?

I'd like to try such a project over here, provided we can agree on the libraries that we have that could push things.

Let's say; Spitfire SCS, SSS, SSB, SSW, Percussion, Masse, Komplete 12 Ultimate.


What say ye?
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:47 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Tack, can you get this to happen in a project that solely has Kontakt instances and no other plugins?

[...]
Let's say; Spitfire SCS, SSS, SSB, SSW, Percussion, Masse, Komplete 12 Ultimate.
Sounds like a great idea! Pretty much at all times I have a shell project running with SCS Ensembles and Vintage D for background idea noodling. So I can make a stripped down project without plugins and see if that triggers it.

I don't suppose you have Galaxy Vintage D? I can make do with The Grandeur but I've a thing for Vintage D.
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:50 AM   #47
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Also, does "without plugins" mean no JSFX as well?
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Old 06-10-2019, 08:16 AM   #48
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Default Maybe Win10 related?

I run 20 or more instances of Kontakt and open/close the FX window frequently because I use the option to only have one open at a time. I haven't experienced any crashes. This is on Windows 7, and glancing through this post, it appears everyone having the problem is on 10 and us lucky ones are on 7. It would seem unlikely (?) and it's not a large sample of users, but might be an avenue worth pursuing? Was there a W10 "upgrade" in the timeframe the problem started?

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Old 06-10-2019, 02:11 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tack View Post
Sounds like a great idea! Pretty much at all times I have a shell project running with SCS Ensembles and Vintage D for background idea noodling. So I can make a stripped down project without plugins and see if that triggers it.

I don't suppose you have Galaxy Vintage D? I can make do with The Grandeur but I've a thing for Vintage D.
I don't really use sampled pianos, but if you must, I have Noire, The Giant and Una Corda (not that I use them a lot, although the particle engine in Noire is fun indeed).

JSFX is fine I suppose. But if we're really nailing it down, it should be all about Kontakt, nevermind the sound of the project...
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Old 06-10-2019, 02:53 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I don't really use sampled pianos, but if you must, I have Noire, The Giant and Una Corda (not that I use them a lot, although the particle engine in Noire is fun indeed).
The Grandeur is part of Komplete 12U so you should have it. I'll load that one in.
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Old 06-10-2019, 02:58 PM   #51
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I don't have it installed. The three I mentioned are the only ones that I have installed.


Also, will likely need the custom action you're using for closing/opening stuff, too, of course

Last edited by EvilDragon; 06-11-2019 at 01:19 AM.
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:07 AM   #52
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I don't know if it's a related issue since I don't have outright crashes, but I have a lot of GUI hangs using Kontakt in Reaper, usually either when closing the FX window or hitting space to play the project.

After digging into threads like this, I've been trying combinations of settings: Kontakt as a separate process, turning off Kontakt multicore, enabling "Run FX when stopped", offlining Kontakt on muted tracks, making sure the track I'm working with is record armed, and Kontakt has gotten snappier in general, except when I open an instrument in edit mode. Once I do that, even if everything was snappy right before, moving the playhead, starting playback, or closing the FX window can then cause hanging, usually around 10-20 seconds, though sometimes longer. Not the worst, but adds up to be pretty frustrating when I'm editing an instrument against MIDI in Reaper all day.
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Old 06-11-2019, 01:27 PM   #53
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The problem is with the Kontakt users, you keep buying their junk quit buying their product that will get Kontakt attention.
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Old 06-11-2019, 01:51 PM   #54
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Unfortunately regarding the very many libraries that are available only in Kontakt format, you don't have a choice.

And in fact you don't need to (directly) buy Kontakt at all, but use the free player for 3rd party libraries (e.g. I don't own a license).

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Old 06-12-2019, 03:53 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Also, will likely need the custom action you're using for closing/opening stuff, too, of course
Yep, of course, that's the easy part.

Now here's an interesting thing. Maybe. I put together the stripped down project, and did the reproduces-the-problem-much-of-the-time test of returning to my PC after leaving it overnight. No issues.

Then I had to reload a project to do, you know, real stuff , and at the point I loaded that project, the PCM Lexicon LexRandomHall plugin complained about refusing to operate in the presence of a debugger. (But amusingly it will happily work if you attach the debugger after it loads. Lame.) I didn't feel like dealing reloading the project, so I just slapped a couple Pro-R instances on in its place.

And, interestingly, no crashes since then. Can't be sure, of course, because it's so intermittent. And I haven't been using my DAW as much in the past couple days as the few days prior. But it would be an interesting discovery if that's the culprit.

In which case it could come down to the Lexicon itself or the fact that it's an iLok plugin. If things remain stable for the next week or two with other verbs then I'll do some other tests with iLok plugins and see. And then I'll go back to the Lexicon to see if it starts crashing again. And if it does, I'll send it to a dedicated process to see if that helps. (If it does, that will generate more questions, because putting Kontakt in a dedicated process, which would have been separate from the Lexicon, didn't have any effect. So the crash can't be explained by some weird interaction between the two living in the same process space.)


Anyway, current status is undetermined and I'll report back here in a couple weeks with my findings (or sooner if I can make the stripped down project crash).
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:06 PM   #56
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Actually I wouldn't be surprised if it were some other plugin causing instability. Now, for what reason would it happen when closing the UI of an unrelated plugin, who knows?
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Old 06-13-2019, 04:02 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Actually I wouldn't be surprised if it were some other plugin causing instability. Now, for what reason would it happen when closing the UI of an unrelated plugin, who knows?
there are also some Kontakt instruments that can cause crashes, I had one from
a good company that caused me all kinds of problems. It got to the point that
opening a project and working for a minute or 2, Reaper would go into its non
responsive mode.

As soon as I found the problem I removed the problem nki and no more crashes.
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:47 PM   #58
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See, would be nice to know which patch from which library... Staying vague like that is never a good thing.
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Old Yesterday, 08:21 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
See, would be nice to know which patch from which library... Staying vague like that is never a good thing.
Yeah sorry ED, I really like the company and the folks so I didn't want to post it in plublic. I'll tell you or anyone else if you PM me.
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Old Yesterday, 09:14 AM   #60
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Personal feelings and bug reports should never be tied together, for the benefit of the whole userbase of the supposedly buggy product. Keeping it hush-hush like that is just weird and makes no sense, no matter how much one likes a particular vendor.
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Old Yesterday, 09:37 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Personal feelings and bug reports should never be tied together, for the benefit of the whole userbase of the supposedly buggy product. Keeping it hush-hush like that is just weird and makes no sense, no matter how much one likes a particular vendor.
+1

Agreed
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Old Yesterday, 09:59 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Personal feelings and bug reports should never be tied together, for the benefit of the whole userbase of the supposedly buggy product. Keeping it hush-hush like that is just weird and makes no sense, no matter how much one likes a particular vendor.
Your going to make me do it aren't you ED.

So here it is for the world to see: Indiginus, Renegade Acoustic Guitar.

I've communicated with them and they will see what they can do.
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