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Old 05-14-2012, 04:11 PM   #41
DVDdoug
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is harley benton ok for line level inputs and instrument level???

i don't understand what those 2 things are, ivansc mentioned them before, but i better have both i guess they are important
There are basically 4 voltage "levels" and impedances we deal with. Three of these can be signal-inputs to a mixer, preamp, or soundcard. You need to "match" the connection:

Speaker Level - Usually several volts into 4 or 8 ohms. 10VRMS into 8 ohms is 12.5W. The same voltage in to 4 Ohms is 25W. (Lower impedance = more current & more wattage and more "load" on the circuit)

Microphone Level - About 10mV (0.01V) to 100mV (0.1V) balanced (3 wires) into about 600 Ohms. 600 Ohms is an old "traditional" standard. Most modern solid state preamps have an input impedance of 1k Ohm or more. Of course, the exact voltage from a mic depends on the loudness and the sensitivity of the mic.

The mic input on your regular consumer-soundcard is higher-impedance (maybe 5K-10k Ohms), and unbalanced, but still too-low impedance for a guitar/bass. It's the wrong interface for studio/performance mics and is only good for communication & gaming "computer" microphones. And, consumer soundcard mic inputs are often noisy and low-quality.

Line Level - About 1V into about 10k-100k Ohms*. The signal that comes out of a mixer, preamp, or the audio-out of your TV is line level. Professional line-level connections are balanced (XLR connectors), and consumer line-level connectors are unbalanced (RCA connectors).

Sometimes a 1/4" TS (2-conductor) connector is used for unbalanced connections and a 1/4" TRS (3-conductor) connector is sometimes used for balanced connections. Many preamps/interfaces have TRS connections, but will accept either TS or TRS. Some have Neutrik connectors that accept XLR, TS or TRS.

Again traditionally, professional line-level is 600 Ohms. But, 10K Ohms or more on the input is now common, with output impedances of less than 600 Ohms. (Most modern equipment doesn't use audio transformers, so we don't "match" impedance... We normally have a low output-impedance going to a high input-impedance.)

The headphone output from a soundcard is approximately line-level, and it can be connected to a line-level input. But it also has the capability of driving a lower-impedance headphone load (typically 32-64 Ohms).


Instrument Level -. About 100mV to 1V or more, unbalanced (2-wire) into 1 Meg Ohm or more (with a 1/4" TS connector, of course).

If you connect a guitar/bass into a line-input (or microphone) input, it will "work" but the load impedance will be too low and it "drags-down" the voltage and the tone can be messed-up.



* If you look-up "line level", there are exact standards for dBV (referenced to 1V) and dBmW (referenced to 1mW into 600 ohms). But, I say "about", because in the real world, we have volume/level controls, and since we don't listen to test-tones, the voice & music signals/voltages jump all over the place.

Last edited by DVDdoug; 05-14-2012 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:48 AM   #42
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Excellent post, Doug.

OP hopefully now you understand WHY you may well need a D.I. and a guitar pedal or similar peramp as well.

I am going to ask the questions I should have done in the first place.
Did you ever sort out a proper audio/midi interface orare you still on the internal soundcard?

Can you hold off buying something until you have told us what interface (if any) you are currently usign and any planned changes you have in mind for the near future?

As you probably guessed, there is more than one sort of D.I. and more than one way to get guitar/instrument level into your recording chain.
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Old 05-15-2012, 01:09 AM   #43
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Thanks DVDdoug! 4 voltage levels, good to know a bit more about that

ivansc i'll be getting MOTU 2408mk3 as audio interface and a new laptop

am still on internal soundcard and a messed up laptop
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Old 05-15-2012, 03:50 AM   #44
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Thanks DVDdoug! 4 voltage levels, good to know a bit more about that

ivansc i'll be getting MOTU 2408mk3 as audio interface and a new laptop

am still on internal soundcard and a messed up laptop
Holy crap Sam..thats some interface!

Not being funny,but are you sure you need that much interface?

Threres no preamps at all on it.And whilst having all them inputs is brilliant,you'll only ever use more than 2 simultaneously if you're tracking drums..which means you'll have to get something with 8 preamps to run into it.

Having said all that..that thing is basically infintely expandable into the future so thats a big plus.It'll be the last interface you ever have to buy!

If you were to buy a lesser one that had a couple of mic/instrument ins you'd be up and running instantly(assuming you're not planning on tracking drums that day)

What exactly are you gonna be tracking if I may be so bold?
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Old 05-15-2012, 04:29 AM   #45
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bugger! I thought I was overloaded with I/O with the 24 in and 24 out my RME HDSP 9652 offers!!!!

Like Cosmic says, are you SURE you need all that lot and also most importantly what are you planning on doing for preamps? Mic line and instrument?

(grin) Time to hit "Yestiddy I cudnt spel Rickordin enjinear, terday I are wun" again???
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Old 05-15-2012, 04:38 AM   #46
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Not to mention he'll be needing a headphone amp!

Aww jazes...this could run to the thousands

Sam..not messing ..for the price of that interface you could go on Thomann and kit out your entire studio....interface,monitors,headphones and a mic!

EG... just for fun!

http://www.thomann.de/ie/behringer_b3031a_truth.htm
http://www.thomann.de/ie/focusrite_saffire_pro_24.htm
(and for when when you need the extra 8 inputs) http://www.thomann.de/ie/behringer_u...al_ada8000.htm

Last edited by Cosmic; 05-15-2012 at 04:49 AM.
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Old 05-15-2012, 05:12 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by samsome123 View Post
Thanks DVDdoug! 4 voltage levels, good to know a bit more about that

ivansc i'll be getting MOTU 2408mk3 as audio interface and a new laptop

am still on internal soundcard and a messed up laptop
The 2408 is a pci/e card based interface... won't work with a laptop.
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Old 05-15-2012, 06:14 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
bugger! I thought I was overloaded with I/O with the 24 in and 24 out my RME HDSP 9652 offers!!!!

Like Cosmic says, are you SURE you need all that lot and also most importantly what are you planning on doing for preamps? Mic line and instrument?

(grin) Time to hit "Yestiddy I cudnt spel Rickordin enjinear, terday I are wun" again???
Yeah, you pro's can laugh ... but what can we noobies do ... just running loose like a goos or more of them ;-))
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Old 05-15-2012, 09:45 AM   #49
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The 2408 is a pci/e card based interface... won't work with a laptop.
are u sure about that??

yea i know i will need an extra 8 mic preamps or something

but are u sure i can't connect that to a laptop??
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:40 AM   #50
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sad but true
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:41 AM   #51
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ronmac thanks for the warning!
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Old 05-16-2012, 02:37 AM   #52
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We are just passing on the results of all the bad decisions WE have made over they years and hoping to help people avoid making similar mistakes, mate.

Ir's all good, but some of it is the better for having had time to curdle!
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Old 05-16-2012, 03:48 AM   #53
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We are just passing on the results of all the bad decisions WE have made over they years and hoping to help people avoid making similar mistakes, mate.

Ir's all good, but some of it is the better for having had time to curdle!

TEEHEE!
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