Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER General Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-01-2010, 08:23 AM   #81
Kenny Gioia
Human being with feelings
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,105
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by primelpott View Post
Kenny,

do You know the meaning of the word fair?
No? Okay ...
Yes. You are correct. As previously mentioned, the new pricing is "unfair" for some people.

But as I looked up the word "fair" and "unfair" in my dictionary I couldn't help but notice another word. "Significant".

I'm still shocked to see people call Reaper "fairly" priced. As in "Moderately" or "Reasonably" priced. Whaaat??

As compared to what? Pirated music?

Because it's not fairly priced compared to a hamburger. Or a bicycle. Or just about anything else I can think of. It is soo severely "under-priced" that I don't think it's "fair" to any other company that makes a DAW.

If Microsoft had created it I'd bet that Apple would be suing them. jk

At $499.00 - Logic is considered to be selling their DAW at cost just to sell computers. Digital Performer has lowered their price to match, but without a computer to sell, I doubt that they'll stick around much longer.

Perhaps a more "fair" model would be to consider purchases 3 months out.

So if you bought it 3 months ago, you're out the full $20.

But if you only bought it 2 months ago, you're only out $13.33

And if you only bought it 1 month ago, you're only out $6.66

Bought it 13 days ago? You only lose $2.86

Is that more "fair"?

Kind of reminds me of the Waves WUP plans.
Kenny Gioia is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2010, 10:39 AM   #82
DeyBwah
Human being with feelings
 
DeyBwah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,572
Default

LOVE LOVE LOVE REAPER!
__________________
HDSPe | D-Box | MP500-NV | Essence | Obsidian | SM57 | Beta52 | Equi=Tech | CMS40 | HS80 w/HS10W http://soundcloud.com/deybwah | http://www.facebook.com/pages/DeyBwah/208627672487538 | http://twitter.com/#!/DeyBwah
DeyBwah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2010, 10:40 AM   #83
DeyBwah
Human being with feelings
 
DeyBwah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,572
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by subtractive View Post
Me too! I bought it about 2 weeks ago. Well, it's only $20. No big deal. What really makes me sad is $500 for Sonar. Complete junk!
Haha I like how you're about as anti-Sonar as I am anti-ProTools.
__________________
HDSPe | D-Box | MP500-NV | Essence | Obsidian | SM57 | Beta52 | Equi=Tech | CMS40 | HS80 w/HS10W http://soundcloud.com/deybwah | http://www.facebook.com/pages/DeyBwah/208627672487538 | http://twitter.com/#!/DeyBwah
DeyBwah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2010, 10:45 AM   #84
DeyBwah
Human being with feelings
 
DeyBwah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,572
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by primelpott View Post
Okay,

cleverness or not. It leaves quite a bitter taste ..
This is 33,33% less. For three weeks? 10% would be okay. Prior notice would have been okay.

@subz :
If they had made a version leap for example from 3,66 to 3.7 or so
- I eventually could understand. But I bought 3.66 and now it's 3.661.
No really extend service period ...

This is a bit unfair, isn't it?

But I will stop complaining - Reaper is even at $60 a real bargain.
Wow... some people can't seem to get a feel for context. I'm really biting my tongue here and will just say this... if you admit REAPER is a bargain at $60, why complain at all? You're putting yourself in a bad light.
__________________
HDSPe | D-Box | MP500-NV | Essence | Obsidian | SM57 | Beta52 | Equi=Tech | CMS40 | HS80 w/HS10W http://soundcloud.com/deybwah | http://www.facebook.com/pages/DeyBwah/208627672487538 | http://twitter.com/#!/DeyBwah
DeyBwah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2010, 10:50 AM   #85
Subz
Human being with feelings
 
Subz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 3,210
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post

Not offering the price cut at all is unfair to anyone who buys a REAPER 3 license shortly before REAPER 4 is released.

i think this is a very good point that every one is missing!

the simple fix is to offer, no wait then they will be even more piffed off,

Ahh wait i have it!!!

you offer Reaper 3 to 4.99 for $40 on random day (as was done this time) but you also offer Reaper 3 to 5.99 for $60 & offer all who already own Reaper 3 to 4.99 a upgrade offer to last to 5.99 for $20 [edit] scrap that it will still leave users piffed off, "i paid $60 last week now i have to pay another $20 that $80 blah blah, seems you cant win! [edit end]


that is the simplest way i can find to actually keep everyone happy & not cost you to much profit

i'm honestly happy i got in before the price drop as i can not pay $40 as i had been using it for full production from over a month before i paid (Sorry! ) i would feel guilty as sin if i held out & got it for $40

i want Reaper to outlive me as i intend to train my kids on it

Subz

Last edited by Subz; 09-01-2010 at 11:01 AM. Reason: seems i can't solve things after all
Subz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2010, 11:07 AM   #86
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
Default

I have practically lost the will to lie trying to understand this thread. Think I will go back to making music and searching for cheap mics on ebay....

Reaper? Oh, yeah - that`s what this thread started up about.... I found out I have a 1.xx licence so I guess it is wait till four time for me - $60 instead of $50 when I first bought, but inflation inthe meantime makes this reasonable. Hell, MORE than reasonable.
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2010, 11:13 AM   #87
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
September 2007 would have been a REAPER 1 license, meaning that license is only good through 2.58. If you are currently using a REAPER version later than 2.58, the right thing to do would be to buy a license.

Unfortunately there isn't an upgrade discount from REAPER 1 licenses. Hopefully by this point, somebody who's been using REAPER for 3 or more years on their original v1 $40 license has gotten their money's worth.
?????
I paid $50 for mine - it ran out at 2.85.
Does that mean that in spite of thinking I had a 1 licence I bought a 2 licence?
I think I bought around december of 2007??

I honestly can`t remember that far back, but it may well have been at version 2 when I bought.
Like I said, maybe I need to go make some music....
(grin)
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2010, 04:49 AM   #88
primelpott
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: octopusse's garden
Posts: 12
Default

Oh my god,

how dare I to say anything against the generosity of Cockos!

Just to put some things straight: I really appreciate Reaper's price policy!
It is absolutely great for $60, $80 or even $100.

But to say it a last time (I won't argue or repeat me anymore):
This is not charity, this is business! (btw. Did you all pay for - as an example - your Winamp? Yes? Fine! Good boys!)

I just tried to explain how i feel as as "valued costumer" when i get said:
"Oh well, You got bad luck! You bought 3 weeks ago. We're now 1/3rd cheaper. Sorry, but I can't help it! But look, what you would have got for Your money when you would have bought in the future." Once again : I'm a costumer, not a beggar for charity.

@DeyBwah:
If you talk about context, you should carefully look at all sides. Not only at yours.
__________________
Particular combinations of colors or black and white contrast may/may not cause epilepsy, nausea, or the urge to do weird things to domestic animals.
Either way, I shall not be held responsible for any of that.

Last edited by primelpott; 09-02-2010 at 05:07 AM.
primelpott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2010, 10:59 AM   #89
Silicon/Silicium
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 212
Default

Count on my upgrade from v2!!
Silicon/Silicium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2010, 12:25 PM   #90
Subz
Human being with feelings
 
Subz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 3,210
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by primelpott View Post
(btw. Did you all pay for - as an example - your Winamp? Yes?
No, i always used the free version

to be honest i only used it recent to do net Radio over ShoutCast

to the best of my knowledge this was/is all above bored with the free Standard version of Winamp?



Subz
Subz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2010, 01:41 PM   #91
Assimaa
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 22
Default

Bored of Tunbridge Wells. I think we all agree don't we...

(Thanks Cockos)
Assimaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2010, 03:14 PM   #92
Hamberger4
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Middle England U.K
Posts: 31
Default

Is WinAmp still around?
Hav'nt seen for years.
Reaper great product.
Great value for money.
Need I say more.
__________________
Reaper (Current) ,Intel Core 2 Duo 1.66 GHz Laptop 160GB, 2GB ram, Windows 7 32 bit, Axium25 ,Yamaha Csx1 , Yamaha QY70, Nord Micro Modular, Alesis Multimix 8 USB, mixer, Axiom 25, Tascam US144 MkII.
Hamberger4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2010, 10:04 AM   #93
keys
Human being with feelings
 
keys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: South Coast, England
Posts: 708
Default

Hmmm, I for one was a bit miffed when i bought in at v2.5x and then v3 comes out a few weeks later with a license to v4.99. Well having thought about it again, I realised that I was happy to spend $50 for it then so why am I miffed now? After all it's the same product! So if a product is cheaper now than when you purchased it, does it make it any less valuable now? No! Else you wouldn't have paid the original price in the first place!
Rock on Cockos - I'll be upgrading
keys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2010, 10:59 PM   #94
tweezer
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: S.E.England
Posts: 329
Default

I've only recently discovered Reaper and I was lucky enough to get the $40.00 deal. This program has doubled my recorded output and had I paid $60.00 for it, a day, an hour or a minute before the price drop, I would still consider it a bargain.
If Cockos continue to make and improve this great product as well as they are doing they can be sure that I'll keep buying it.
tweezer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2010, 06:26 AM   #95
Hamberger4
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Middle England U.K
Posts: 31
Default

I paid $60 for mine but I'm not complaining.
I am having so much fun learning Reaper and discovering new things every day coupled with the wonderfull support from the forum
you just cant complain.
__________________
Reaper (Current) ,Intel Core 2 Duo 1.66 GHz Laptop 160GB, 2GB ram, Windows 7 32 bit, Axium25 ,Yamaha Csx1 , Yamaha QY70, Nord Micro Modular, Alesis Multimix 8 USB, mixer, Axiom 25, Tascam US144 MkII.
Hamberger4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2010, 05:55 PM   #96
Subz
Human being with feelings
 
Subz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 3,210
Default

FYI

the download page still has the old price on it,

Subz

FIXED NOW

Last edited by Subz; 09-13-2010 at 03:46 AM.
Subz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 02:27 PM   #97
sjakie2003
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 45
Default

Damn, that is another dent into my boozing money.

Ah well... Another $50 bucks well spend. Thanks for all the great work guys!
sjakie2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2010, 12:48 AM   #98
yevster
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 17
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by subtractive View Post
Me too! I bought it about 2 weeks ago. Well, it's only $20. No big deal. What really makes me sad is $500 for Sonar. Complete junk!
Well, to be fair, (a) Sonar is down to 400, and (b), Reaper still hasn't caught up with Sonar in terms of ease and power of its piano roll view. But with V4 around the corner, one can hope...
yevster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2010, 07:28 PM   #99
Dali
Human being with feelings
 
Dali's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Québec city
Posts: 411
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post

-Justin (+SCO)
Who's "O" ?

I'm used to JCS but don't know who is "o"...

And to keep myself in line with the thread... Have a look at my signature:
__________________
REAPER: The best experience I've ever had with intellectual property. (BaronStinky)
Dali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2010, 07:36 PM   #100
enoder
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 36
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simple Simon View Post
Justin (and team) for world presidents! Hell... Justin (and team) for World Dictator (benevolent, of course)!
X200000000000000000000000
enoder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2010, 07:36 PM   #101
zappsunzorn
Human being with feelings
 
zappsunzorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Virginia Beach VA
Posts: 2,274
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dali View Post
Who's "O" ?
I think it is Ollie

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=62548
zappsunzorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2010, 10:04 AM   #102
Dali
Human being with feelings
 
Dali's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Québec city
Posts: 411
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zappsunzorn View Post
You're right. I should not take vacation when important stuff is announced here...

Dali
__________________
REAPER: The best experience I've ever had with intellectual property. (BaronStinky)
Dali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2010, 04:53 AM   #103
sweetbutt
Human being with feelings
 
sweetbutt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: earth
Posts: 273
Default

so so happy I found Reaper

so happy

thanks cockos.

your contribution for a better evolution of our world is so lovely and inspiring

"be the change you want to see in the world" (Ghandi)
sweetbutt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2010, 04:56 PM   #104
latino61
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 7
Default A great move on Cockos Part

The reduce of Reaper's price couldn't have come at a better time.
In my opinion they are being sensitive to The world economy. In all, more people will be turning to Reaper with that iniciative after all. That will make Reaper stronger. I think we should vote the Devs for Office.

I AM VERY LOOKING FORWARD TO WHAT VERSION 4 WILL BRING.

I wish the Cockos Team all the best and thank you so very much for all the great things you are doing.
latino61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2010, 05:51 PM   #105
jtrentes
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 14
Default Announcement: REAPER pricing changes

Considering the thousands of dollars I wasted on Sonar and ProTools LE, not to mention the countless hours of frustration and lost productivity I spent trying to get aforementioned software to actually work, the pointless and expensive annual "upgrades"...

The prospect of paying just $50 to upgrade my REAPER 2.0 license to a 4.0 license makes me just want to fly out there and do your housework, wash your car and cut your grass.

I've been raving about you guys to everyone I meet here in Nashville.

JT
jtrentes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2010, 07:33 AM   #106
mabian
Moderator
 
mabian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Italy
Posts: 4,326
Default

Also, the hundreds of $ saved for DAW allowed to get a much higher end audio card, and some plugins that cannot simply be found bundled with any daw.

Don't forget the 60$ or 40$ or whatever actually count for two upgrades of the "other guyz".

- Mario
mabian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2010, 03:45 PM   #107
Rudi
Human being with feelings
 
Rudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 8
Default Euro change rate

I just stop using my cracked DAWs and for the first time of my life I paid for a license because:
1) Reaper is the best DAW and has a great community.
2) The fair pricing policy is what it always should be. The Euro change rate makes a licence 32 Euros only today.

Thank you Reaper team for all your great work.
__________________
Athlon 64 X2 4200+ OC@2.75GHz, 2GB RAM, Win7 x64, EMU 1616m
Reaper licensed user because I support fair pricing policy.
Rudi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2010, 07:47 PM   #108
pw3
Human being with feelings
 
pw3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 354
Default

Good for you, Rudi. Welcome "home" - it's good here.
pw3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2010, 03:52 AM   #109
Subz
Human being with feelings
 
Subz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 3,210
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudi View Post
I just stop using my cracked DAWs and for the first time of my life I paid for a license because:
1) Reaper is the best DAW and has a great community.
2) The fair pricing policy is what it always should be. The Euro change rate makes a licence 32 Euros only today.

Thank you Reaper team for all your great work.



Reapers even cutting in to the Warez sector of the market & making money from it!


& who said a unrestricted demo will never work?

Welcome!

Subz
Subz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2010, 10:09 PM   #110
blitze
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 147
Default

I feel guilty using this program legitimately for the price they charge. Not that I'm complaining but as soon as I make money from music comp - These guys will be getting a commercial license from me.

Now when is the October Sounds online Complete Composers Collection Special? Waiting for that big pay cheque to roll in for some sample loving.
blitze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2010, 12:02 PM   #111
FatStratCat
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: California
Posts: 4
Default

Just a few quick things.


1.This product is AWESOME. I just started using it, and I'm all in.

2. I will be upgrading to a new DAW computer next month - is the license easily transferable?

3.On the lower left corner of the home page (index.php) the old pricing numbers are still listed.
FatStratCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2010, 12:23 PM   #112
Kusdo
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 6
Default

here in my place (Malaysia), Reaper is RM 124 (USD40), cubase is RM2050...

2050-124=1926...what a difference...

....if Reaper is a girl, im ready to marry her...but if Reaper is a guy, i gonna wait for her daughter...i love Reaper..haha...
Kusdo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2010, 12:29 PM   #113
Ollie
Super Moderator (no feelings)
 
Ollie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: On or near a dike
Posts: 9,834
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatStratCat View Post
Just a few quick things.


1.This product is AWESOME. I just started using it, and I'm all in.

2. I will be upgrading to a new DAW computer next month - is the license easily transferable?

3.On the lower left corner of the home page (index.php) the old pricing numbers are still listed.
1. Thanks!
2. Yes.
3. Thanks!

Ollie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2010, 11:50 PM   #114
Chris Martins
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 207
Default

I've been using Reaper since V2.xx and I'm happily going to upgrade my licence on the very day Reaper 4 is released!

My band's album is being finished as we speak and it's ll done in Reaper with the help of a few external friends : Mr Superior Drummer, Mr POD, Mr Gibson and Mr Marshall, and if it hadn't been for Reaper, the recording would have taken a lot longer.

The minute the album brings money in, I'm paying for the commercial licence, I'll get it because it's all worth it and it's a way of saying thank you for being more than fair, generous and trusting... and obviously having a great product to boot.
Chris Martins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 08:14 AM   #115
Kundalinguist
Human being with feelings
 
Kundalinguist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 4,630
Default

I think this is a good time to invest in Reaper 3 because it will only go up in value as a collector's item once the company stops making it. Buy now so you can reap the rewards later.

At last check, Sotheby's had auctioned off a copy of Reaper 2.0 at an astonishing $459.17!

(Yes, I was the buyer!)
__________________
Success is just one more plugin away! And happiness is as close as your next upgrade. (On the interweb: www.rolandk.ca / www.auroraskypublishing.com)
Kundalinguist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2010, 10:36 AM   #116
benf
Human being with feelings
 
benf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: France
Posts: 3,698
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kundalinguist View Post
At last check, Sotheby's had auctioned off a copy of Reaper 2.0 at an astonishing $459.17!

(Yes, I was the buyer!)
Are you one of moon field's buyer too ?
__________________
Ma Zique
Mes Partoches
benf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 05:10 PM   #117
cAPSLOCK
Human being with feelings
 
cAPSLOCK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 313
Default MASSIVELY COOL

Wow, as usual.

This sort of thing is one of the main reasons that, though I still use Reaper less than my main DAW I still recommend Reaper constantly to my clients, and almost everyone who brings in projects or takes them out is using this product.

I will obviously be continuing to upgrade.

And since it has been mentioned elsewhere that my main showstopper feature is being addressed in 4.x (take/comping workflow) I still hold out hope that Reaper could be my main tool sooner than later.
cAPSLOCK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 11:06 AM   #118
ralf-77
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2
Default Reaper for School

Hi folks,

I'm so new here and not sure where to ask a few things ^_^°

I plan to use Reaper at school (I'm a teacher...)
If I buy a license then can I install Reaper on all computers at school or do I need a license for every computer?
And
Is Reaper supporting the german language by chance?

Best Regards
Ralf
...a so far Logic User for 15 Jears...
ralf-77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 11:16 AM   #119
zappsunzorn
Human being with feelings
 
zappsunzorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Virginia Beach VA
Posts: 2,274
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ralf-77 View Post
If I buy a license then can I install Reaper on all computers at school or do I need a license for every computer?
And
Is Reaper supporting the german language by chance?
Welcome to the Forum!

No German language version now, but you can customize the menus. I am not sure if someone has made a custom menu translated to German.

For special licensing cases I would contact Cockos with the address given at the bottom right of the purchase page email licensing at cockos.
zappsunzorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 11:35 AM   #120
Ollie
Super Moderator (no feelings)
 
Ollie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: On or near a dike
Posts: 9,834
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ralf-77 View Post
Hi folks,

I'm so new here and not sure where to ask a few things ^_^°
Welcome to REAPER!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ralf-77 View Post
I plan to use Reaper at school (I'm a teacher...)
If I buy a license then can I install Reaper on all computers at school or do I need a license for every computer?
Please contact licensing[at]cockos.com with some details. Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ralf-77 View Post
Is Reaper supporting the german language by chance?
No, sorry. At least not officially and far from being complete (clickme). Documentation auf Deutsch is next to nonexistent.
Ollie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.