Old 04-22-2018, 08:16 AM   #1
Lophophora
Human being with feelings
 
Lophophora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Singapore
Posts: 349
Default Audio interface upgrade recommandations

Hey Reaper people,

I currently use a Roland Octa-Capture which I want to relocate for another project. I need to replace it, and would like to get one that is more suited to my needs. I record mainly vocals and acoustic instruments, and almost always overdub, which means I could go with only 2 inputs most of the time. However, having had the comfort of 8 inputs for so long, I'd like to have at least 4 just in case. I want to be able to record a piano with stereo close miking + stereo room, for instance.

I use a PC with Windows 10. I'd like to have an interface that is at least as good as the Roland in terms of reliability and ease-of-use, but I'd love to have better A/D converters. I have a Focusrite ISA Two preamp so the preamps wouldn't be my primary concern. I currently have 2.8ms latency with 64 samples so I'd like to have no more than that.

Max budget is 900 € / USD 1100. In this price range I have spotted one device that would seem to be a significant upgrade, it is the Presonus Studio 192. There is also the RME Fireface UC but it has only 2 preamps, and is USB2 (vs USB3 for the Presonus). Because I use a desktop computer I could also use a PCIe AI but I am not familiar with this format and unsure about the benefits or even the availability in my price range. Is the Presonus Studio 192 a good choices? Are there any others?

Side question: most interfaces don't have MIDI I/O anymore. Can I use a MIDI/USB interface (like the M-Audio MIDISport 2X2 AE USB for instance) in conjunction with the AI?

Side question 2: with an interface that has 4 inputs but only 2 mic preamps, can I connect my Focusrite preamp to a line input and record 4 mics simultaneously?

Any help appreciated.
Lophophora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2018, 09:51 AM   #2
Stella645
Human being with feelings
 
Stella645's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 3,648
Default

How have you measured your current claimed latency?
Given that figure is better than every other interface on the market, I suspect something is not right.....The captures drivers are supposed to be a solid performer but not that good.

Presonus 192 drivers have disappointing performance....Presonus Quantum is one of the best performers available but TB only and no direct monitor (to avoid dsp mixer extra latency).

Side answer 1 - Yes you can use a midi interface alongside your AI no problem.

Side answer 2 - You can record however many channels the AI specifies as being able to. For the most part that'll be same as number of inputs but there could be exceptions. (Can't think of any tbh)
Stella645 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2018, 10:44 AM   #3
pipelineaudio
Mortal
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 14,047
Default

Regarding latency:
http://kailuamusicschool.com/tech/ro...tency-roundup/

I'm not sure about the very newest Presonus USB drivers, I'm trying to get more numbers for my chart.

Regarding features like MIDI, I've been working on this

http://pipelineaudio.net/2018/03/28/...es-march-2018/
pipelineaudio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2018, 06:33 PM   #4
Lophophora
Human being with feelings
 
Lophophora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Singapore
Posts: 349
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella645 View Post
How have you measured your current claimed latency?
I haven't myself, I'm just reporting what Reaper shows... I recently did an entire reset of my computer (BIOS upgrade, Windows install, a few hardware upgrades) and tweaked my BIOS and Windows for audio latency. Basic standard installation was showing 11ms, and after extensive tweaking it showed the values on the attached image. Actually I reported only the latter value, which I believe is the output latency? So my round-trip latency would be 7,6ms. Does that sound more realistic?

Quote:
Presonus 192 drivers have disappointing performance....Presonus Quantum is one of the best performers available but TB only and no direct monitor (to avoid dsp mixer extra latency).
I actually haven't looked at TB interfaces at all since I only have USB3. But a quick look suggests that there is more available devices around my price range in TB than USB. Would it be wise to look into a TB adapter?

Thanks for your answers, @pipelineaudio too.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg latency.jpg (13.8 KB, 201 views)
Lophophora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2018, 03:56 AM   #5
Stella645
Human being with feelings
 
Stella645's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 3,648
Default

Yep, the 2 added together are your RTL. It's also likely to be a little higher if actually measured rather than reported. So as long as you find an interface with supposed RTL under around 8.5ms you should be fine.

there is no simple TB adapter. Your motherboard must be built for it and only if that's the case you may get away with a PCI adapter. It's still early days for TB on Windows so probably best avoided unless you buy a machine specifically specced and tested for it or you really know what you're doing.

The RME UCX you mentioned would be a great choice, or maybe the Babyface Pro if you can work with the desktop format. Antelope Discrete 4 also looks interesting, though seemed to have a few teething problems that are slowly getting sorted.
Also the new Audient iD44 due out soon is supposed to have improved latency over previous iDs and they sound great. More affordable too.

Last edited by Stella645; 04-23-2018 at 04:09 AM.
Stella645 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2018, 07:41 AM   #6
Lophophora
Human being with feelings
 
Lophophora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Singapore
Posts: 349
Default

Actually I have set my samples to 64 but I tried 32 and it worked perfectly fine (don't remember the latency values but it was really low). I just rolled back to 64 because it was acceptable for me and I wanted to make sure I'll never have any crackle or stability issue.

I need a rack format interface because I don't have enough space left on my desktop. And despite what I stated in my first message, after giving it some thought I'd like to have 8 preamps and lots of I/O and options for the future. I would like to keep this device for a long time so I don't want to be stuck if my needs change in the future.

So my mind is quite set on this Presonus Studio 192 right now. I've probably read all the reviews available about it... Can you tell me more about this "disappointing performance" you were referring to?
Lophophora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2018, 12:28 PM   #7
Stella645
Human being with feelings
 
Stella645's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 3,648
Default

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/show...&postcount=863
Stella645 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2018, 05:43 PM   #8
Lophophora
Human being with feelings
 
Lophophora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Singapore
Posts: 349
Default

Thanks, I had read about latency issues during the early stages indeed. The data shown on Gearslutz has been collected during the first year on the market. It has been 3 years now: several driver updates have been released. I haven't found anyone complaining about latency issues anymore so I had thought this was an issue of the past, but I'll keep investigating.

This would seem to corroborate what I thought: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/show...48&postcount=5

Anyway it is clear that this Studio 192 is not among the best devices latency-wise, but it has an impressive feature set. Actually it is the device that best suits my current and future needs in my price range. Regarding latency, as long as I don't downgrade in this field I'm ok with it. I use little soft instruments and don't record with DSP effects anyway.

But still it is a little disheartening to throw so much money in a device that has a known weakness. Tough choice! I think I have enough info now, I just need to make a decision. Thanks for your help.

Last edited by Lophophora; 04-23-2018 at 05:55 PM.
Lophophora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2018, 08:59 PM   #9
Lophophora
Human being with feelings
 
Lophophora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Singapore
Posts: 349
Default

Update: After even more in-depth reading about the Presonus Studio 192 it appears that the poor latency values haven't been solved with driver updates as I first thought, and most likely will never be. It is a no-go for me.

I am leaning toward the Clarett 8Pre USB instead, even though it lacks some of the features I loved on the Presonus.
Lophophora is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.