Old 06-10-2018, 03:32 PM   #1
Arthur McArthur
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Default Dave Pensado on "Event Horizon Clipper"

Good to see my personal favorite clipping plugin get some love:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJWFQUsl5h0

And a question for schwa, is there a difference between the VST and the JS version in terms of the sound?
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Old 06-11-2018, 02:10 AM   #2
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Poor fella couldn´t afford a license it seems...
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Old 06-11-2018, 10:25 AM   #3
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Good to see my personal favorite clipping plugin get some love:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJWFQUsl5h0

And a question for schwa, is there a difference between the VST and the JS version in terms of the sound?
Actually, I wrote those, not schwa. The performance of the VST/AU/AAX is better than the JS, and the Limit modes of the non-JS version are different/better than the JS, but the clipping code should be pretty similar. It's been quite a while ago, though, so don't hold me to 100% accuracy.
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Old 06-11-2018, 01:37 PM   #4
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Actually, I wrote those, not schwa.
Nice work SStillwell!
Is there anything to Dave's mentioning of Lavry gold?
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Old 06-11-2018, 02:36 PM   #5
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I wish someone would make a TL;DR version of Pensado's Place. I keep hearing that there are great nuggets of info in there, but I'm probably too ADD to make it to any
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Old 06-11-2018, 03:23 PM   #6
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I wish someone would make a TL;DR version of Pensado's Place. I keep hearing that there are great nuggets of info in there, but I'm probably too ADD to make it to any
Well this video was more like "here are some clipping plugins, listen as I switch through them and make observations." I couldn't hear a couple of the things he was talking about either, like how 32x oversampling in the SIR plugin was supposed to make the bass sound tighter than 16x oversampling, and the setting of the JST plugin must've been set really subtle since I struggled to hear its effect at all.
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Old 06-11-2018, 03:39 PM   #7
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Yeah this one wasn't bad, its the roundtable ones where they compare sideburns, spraytans and spiked hairdos then talk about how awesome the latest britney spears things sounds that drive me nuts
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Old 06-11-2018, 03:45 PM   #8
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Yeah this one wasn't bad, its the roundtable ones where they compare sideburns, spraytans and spiked hairdos then talk about how awesome the latest britney spears things sounds that drive me nuts

I hardly ever watch the Pensado's Place videos (they're nearly always discussing and gushing over very bad music lol) - just the ones where he's sitting in front of a mix and demonstrating stuff which is where I've picked up a few tips and things to think about.
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Old 06-11-2018, 04:14 PM   #9
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I wish someone would make a TL;DR version of Pensado's Place. I keep hearing that there are great nuggets of info in there, but I'm probably too ADD to make it to any
The only ones I seem to care for are interviews with certain engineers, but since they waste 10-20 minutes with various sales pitches etc. before the guest even comes on the set, I automatically skip all of that, then the rest is fairly uninterrupted. One needs to buffer that of course as some engineers are worth listening to, others are just a second 30 minute commercial.

The Into the Lair short episodes, I can't really stomach as well depending, it just seems too much like a plugin sales pitch even if not intended and I don't like this age of teaching newcomers that everything that matters happens in a plugin - IT DOESN'T - there's no way he uses those like he says he does though. There are some good tips and tricks in those that can be interesting though so I can't really deny those having value.
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Old 06-12-2018, 05:06 PM   #10
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Actually, I wrote those, not schwa. The performance of the VST/AU/AAX is better than the JS, and the Limit modes of the non-JS version are different/better than the JS, but the clipping code should be pretty similar. It's been quite a while ago, though, so don't hold me to 100% accuracy.
Thanks for making an awesome plugin, Stillwell! Still the best clipper to me.
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Old 06-12-2018, 08:36 PM   #11
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Not to poop on Event Horizon (because I like it too, it's one of the very few clippers I use), but I also like Gclip (GVST) and figure it's worth mentioning. It's free.
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Old 06-13-2018, 12:56 AM   #12
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Venn Audio's free clipper is the best one I've found out there free or not.


https://www.vennaudio.com/free-clip/


I've found it to be the cleanest at the same levels as other clippers I used to use.
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:22 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by bladerunner View Post
Venn Audio's free clipper is the best one I've found out there free or not.


https://www.vennaudio.com/free-clip/


I've found it to be the cleanest at the same levels as other clippers I used to use.
I like that one too. However it does have a tiny bit of latency (64 samples) and uses about 2x the CPU as Gclip (at the same oversampling settings), so I just use Gclip for that kind of sound now. I find it works about as good, as long as I don't expect more than 2x oversampling (since Gclip only has 2x oversampling as an option). It works differently, and doesn't have a post-oversampling clip, but I can get very similar results.
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:31 PM   #14
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I pay attention here … soooo Venn Audio, GClip, Event Horizon are in the toolkit.
Was impressed recently with Kazrog LLC's KClip3. Anyone use or taken a close look ?
Full-function Demo is free …..
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:52 PM   #15
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I pay attention here … soooo Venn Audio, GClip, Event Horizon are in the toolkit.
Was impressed recently with Kazrog LLC's KClip3. Anyone use or taken a close look ?
Full-function Demo is free …..
I tried a previous version, probably the original, and I liked it. I think I still preferred Gclip for some reason but I don't remember why since it was too long ago.

KClip3 has a lot of features, so it's no simple clipping plugin. I'd compare but I'm unlikely to fit something like this into my workflow, since I don't use much clipping/distortion in this sort of vein. I only really care about a little bit of soft clipping that's not so noticeable. So if I were to compare KClip3 to other clipping plugins I'd have to "pick my battles" for the kind of clipping I want, which would leave out all the other aspects of KClip3 that I wouldn't care as much about, so that wouldn't be fair for a comparison.

But you can compare plugins, too!
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Old 06-13-2018, 04:28 PM   #16
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KClip3 has a lot of features, so it's no simple clipping plugin. *********** So if I were to compare KClip3 to other clipping plugins I'd have to "pick my battles" for the kind of clipping I want, which would leave out all the other aspects of KClip3 that I wouldn't care as much about, so that wouldn't be fair for a comparison. ******* But you can compare plugins, too!
Oh yeah, but not as skillfully /capably.

THX for helping!
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Old 06-13-2018, 04:42 PM   #17
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Oh yeah, but not as skillfully /capably.

THX for helping!
I'm no authority! In the end it's about what you want, how you use the plugin, that sort of thing.

If you want to have fun testing plugins, be sure to not only compare on the same source material (and match levels) to get an idea how it sounds, but also do things like this to see if you're possibly missing something about how it functions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb7k1ym8JVk

I like using Signalizer since it has a very nice frequency spectrum analysis view (with lots of options) but also an oscilloscope view (and more), plus it's free.

http://www.jthorborg.com/signalizer.html
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Old 06-13-2018, 05:03 PM   #18
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I like using Signalizer since it has a very nice frequency spectrum analysis view (with lots of options) but also an oscilloscope view (and more), plus it's free.

http://www.jthorborg.com/signalizer.html
+1 for Signalizer! Love it, although it's been a while since I checked in, and last time (a couple years ago) it wasn't quite ready for daily use (for me); it's awesome to see that Linux support has come. Gotta download the latest and take it for a spin. That guy deserves donations!
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Old 06-13-2018, 05:22 PM   #19
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Have Signalizer (latest 7/17) yet KClip3 3 has its own 'Visualiser' … Waveform or Spectrum, which offers some help as well.
THX for the YT video! Watched a portion and will revisit now.
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:59 PM   #20
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For using oscilloscope mode with a test tone generator (sine, triangle, square etc.) set the oscilloscope's time mode to "cycles" and trigger mode to "spectral". The waveform will stabilize after a few seconds automatically and you can see the effect of clipping etc. on the test tone.
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Old 06-13-2018, 08:27 PM   #21
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Aha! THX!

KClip3 Visualiser /Waveform Global Settings promised soon ...
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Old 06-14-2018, 07:42 AM   #22
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I wish someone would make a TL;DR version of Pensado's Place. I keep hearing that there are great nuggets of info in there, but I'm probably too ADD to make it to any
The first 25 or so were good. It seems now to be very "street-business" centric more than engineering/music.

/ Geez, accidentally read some comments in the Pensado YouTube video: "Cubase is better because they "invented" VSTs"... It's kind of like he's catering to this mob of LCD people that are afflicted with Dunning-Kruger.
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Old 06-14-2018, 08:05 AM   #23
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Clippers, or "How to make an 808 sound like it went +8 over on a 1/4" Fostex 8 track". I can't listen to that.

He needs to rename his show "The 808 Genuflection Hour: All That is Holy About the 808, Praise Be to Roland".

"Yo man, you know what I'm sayin', that 808 bruh", "yeah, huhuhuh", "I'm just sayin', you know, it's the shit", "yeah, I love me some 808","huhuh, yeeeeh, you know that's right!", "Hahah, yeah", "yeah, that 808", "Sure 'nuff", "know what I'm saying, know what I'm sayin?","yo, 808", "yeee ehh!".

I stopped watching because it seemed like I needed a translator, or my life was incomplete because I don't use 808 kicks enough.
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Old 06-14-2018, 11:17 AM   #24
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I stopped watching because it seemed like I needed a translator, or my life was incomplete because I don't use 808 kicks enough.
Are you telling me that you couldn't tell the obvious difference in how tight the bass was when changing a clipper's oversampling mode to 32 times from 16 times?
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Old 06-14-2018, 11:51 AM   #25
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IF the point of clipping is to set a real, predictable, hard limit to the value of every output sample, THEN oversampling is not really helping. Any filter after the signal is clipped will tend to undo some of it and make it difficult to say where the actual limit is. When we're just looking to reduce the dynamic range, add some distortion, and not really worried if it goes a little "over", we can get away with it. If you absolutely need to know that it won't get any louder than X, though, you have to just clip it off and let it alias.
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Old 06-14-2018, 02:10 PM   #26
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I was just making a joke about the "observation" made in the video about switching oversampling to 32x supposedly making the bass "tighter", which I didn't hear and don't think I ever will. But then again he didn't seem to care much about the workings of the plugins. Near the start of the video he says "...a clipper does X to the sound...well I'm not going to get into it now..." or at all.

Not to say he doesn't deserve respect as an engineer. I think however that the video does very little to educate anyone about clippers.
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Old 06-14-2018, 09:56 PM   #27
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Not to say he doesn't deserve respect as an engineer. I think however that the video does very little to educate anyone about clippers.
Totally agree with this and your other comments as well. I'm still trying to figure out what a clipper does. I thought clipping was a bad thing.
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:50 AM   #28
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Totally agree with this and your other comments as well. I'm still trying to figure out what a clipper does. I thought clipping was a bad thing.

It's a waveshaper. Clipping a signal a little will A: be imperceptible to the ear as it happens so fast (you won't hear the resulting distortion) and B: buy you headroom if loudness is a concern. It's much more transparent than limiting. That's why I very often use a soft clipper instead of a limiter in mastering - it will get you a louder, cleaner signal than a limiter gives. In comparison, I think limiting is a bad thing because it almost always does more damage to the sound.
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Old 06-15-2018, 08:06 AM   #29
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Not to say he doesn't deserve respect as an engineer. I think however that the video does very little to educate anyone about clippers.
I enjoyed the first or so batch of shows, but to be honest too much of what he talks about is of little use to someone wanting to understand more about "engineering" if that's going to include a wider range of music than R&B and Hip Hop, which, to me, can be about a lot of creative things but not how to make great sounding recordings. I haven't watched enough in the past few years to have a valid opinion anymore, but I've seen enough talking about a plugin where he puts it on a Casio-like noodle loop to make it more interesting than it was or a drum loop from a sample and not using it on anything else to know I just watched 15 minutes and didn't learn anything that would apply to me.
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Old 06-15-2018, 09:54 AM   #30
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Are you telling me that you couldn't tell the obvious difference in how tight the bass was when changing a clipper's oversampling mode to 32 times from 16 times?
I don't know what "tight" means, or what he means. Snake oil can be profitable I suppose.

Certainly no change in the ADSR of the bass, but maybe a touch less garble/duration of harmonic distortion when the kick hits, which is typically what oversampling seems to do with distortion-centric plugins. Maybe. But I hate the sound of digital clipping anyhow, it's insanity to deliberately do that IMO.
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Old 06-15-2018, 09:58 AM   #31
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IF the point of clipping is to set a real, predictable, hard limit to the value of every output sample, THEN oversampling is not really helping.
What it's really doing is changing it from a "clipper" to a "transparent" variable knee compressor. This cork-sniffer approach to digital clipping is... Idiocracy applied to music.

Somewhere in YouTube comments someone is saying something like "I want a clipper that is "transparent"".


/ #Ihatethe21stcentury
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Old 06-15-2018, 10:30 AM   #32
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It's a waveshaper. Clipping a signal a little will A: be imperceptible to the ear as it happens so fast (you won't hear the resulting distortion)
If it's imperceptible to the ear how do you know A: it's doing anything and 2: you have enough or too little or too much?

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and B: buy you headroom if loudness is a concern. It's much more transparent than limiting. That's why I very often use a soft clipper instead of a limiter in mastering - it will get you a louder, cleaner signal than a limiter gives. In comparison, I think limiting is a bad thing because it almost always does more damage to the sound.
How do you keep the level from going to high if you don't use a limiter? Strictly by ear or meter or???
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Old 06-15-2018, 11:52 AM   #33
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If it's imperceptible to the ear how do you know A: it's doing anything and 2: you have enough or too little or too much?
A: It gets louder.
2: If it doesn't get as loud as you want, it's not enough. If you hear distortion OR it gets too loud, you've used too much.

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How do you keep the level from going to high if you don't use a limiter? Strictly by ear or meter or???
Clipping. In fact, unless you are actually clipping without filtering after, you're not really setting a limit so much as making a suggestion of about where you'd like the loudest peaks to hit. Limiting always involves a time component. Whether it's Attack/Release or some sort of short averaging, the gain reduction is almost never actually appropriate for a given input sample except by accident.
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:20 PM   #34
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I'm still trying to figure out what a clipper does.
http://www.simulanalog.org/clip.pdf
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Old 06-15-2018, 10:18 PM   #35
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Clipping. In fact, unless you are actually clipping without filtering after, you're not really setting a limit so much as making a suggestion of about where you'd like the loudest peaks to hit. Limiting always involves a time component. Whether it's Attack/Release or some sort of short averaging, the gain reduction is almost never actually appropriate for a given input sample except by accident.
OK, let me think about this one for a bit...

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Thank you! Much appreciated.
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Old 06-17-2018, 08:49 AM   #36
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If it's imperceptible to the ear how do you know A: it's doing anything and 2: you have enough or too little or too much?

You'll know it's doing something if the peak level of your audio is lower. It depends on your intention as regards too little or too much. Too much = hearing the distortion (unless you want audible distortion of course). Too little = you can get away with lowering your peaks further (if a headroom gain is your intention).


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How do you keep the level from going to high if you don't use a limiter? Strictly by ear or meter or???

You define a level at which the audio should not exceed within the clipper plugin. In mastering I would define somewhere between -0.7 and -0.3 dB for example.
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Old 06-17-2018, 11:50 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by bladerunner View Post
You'll know it's doing something if the peak level of your audio is lower. It depends on your intention as regards too little or too much. Too much = hearing the distortion (unless you want audible distortion of course). Too little = you can get away with lowering your peaks further (if a headroom gain is your intention).

You define a level at which the audio should not exceed within the clipper plugin. In mastering I would define somewhere between -0.7 and -0.3 dB for example.
Thanks! I'm a bit more clear now.
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Old 06-23-2018, 09:59 AM   #38
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