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Old 01-31-2018, 12:46 PM   #1
azslow3
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Default Sonar to Reaper in 4 clicks (public alpha)



Installation instructions, current features (and donation link) can be found there: http://www.azslow.com/index.php/board,13.0.html

Sonar X1-Platinum 2017: everything supported by the converter is converted
Sonar 7-8,5: almost everything supported is converted
Sonar 5 and older: mixing (parameters, buses, sends) and FXes/SoftSynth are NOT converted. Re-saving using newer Sonar, in case you have such possibility, will greatly improve the conversion quality.

That is an alpha version, but everything planned is converted. Please do not hesitate to ask for additional features (if they can really help you... just because something is in Sonar does not mean it make sense convert it)

Last edited by azslow3; 03-07-2018 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 01-31-2018, 02:56 PM   #2
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Kudos, it will certainly gain interest from Sonar refugees.
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Old 01-31-2018, 03:15 PM   #3
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Amazing.

Will this work with all Sonar projects (ie as far back as v8.5)?

It'd be great to salvage some of my old projects.
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Old 01-31-2018, 05:04 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rothchild View Post
Will this work with all Sonar projects (ie as far back as v8.5)?
I do not have 8.5 myself, I test with X2-Platinum range only,
but I can use failing files to understand what does not work.

Note that cwb, wrk, etc. parsing is not planned (cwp only). I do not have Apple, Windows only (Linux is possible... I cross-compile under Linux and GCC is "native" compiler for this extension). The tool is going to be closed source freeware with donation possibility.
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Old 01-31-2018, 05:09 PM   #5
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Looking forward to it!
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Old 01-31-2018, 05:42 PM   #6
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great stuff
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Old 01-31-2018, 10:04 PM   #7
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Really amazing man!
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Old 01-31-2018, 10:33 PM   #8
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Wow, you are amazing for doing this.
wait, are you the same az that made azweb transport?
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Old 01-31-2018, 11:05 PM   #9
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Unbelievable! Keep working on it, man! This is the dream of many Sonar users, haha.
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Old 01-31-2018, 11:29 PM   #10
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Wow man, awesome stuff !
This can draw alot (more?) ex Sonar users to Reaper
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Old 02-04-2018, 04:38 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azslow3 View Post

Pre-alpha. But as you can see, something is already working

For Reaper developers: for obvious reason, it will be nice in case the bug I have reported https://forums.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=202610 can be fixed soon.
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Old 02-04-2018, 07:29 AM   #12
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Wow, yes please. Thanks for the work!
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Old 02-04-2018, 11:50 AM   #13
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Thanks x 100
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Old 02-04-2018, 12:01 PM   #14
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Thanks..cant wait to try it out
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Old 02-05-2018, 02:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rluka View Post
Thanks..cant wait to try it out
Ron L
Volunteers are testing pre-alpha, looks promising. But it will take a bit more time till the first public alpha.
BTW the progress is not a secret: http://www.azslow.com/index.php/board,13.0.html

Stuck a bit (last hours) with VST3 Sonar->Reaper (DX and VST2 works, but I want VST3 for completeness). Once done, I will convert routing (there is no open questions with it, but quite some work). And then - alpha
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Old 02-05-2018, 04:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azslow3 View Post
Volunteers are testing pre-alpha, looks promising. But it will take a bit more time till the first public alpha.
BTW the progress is not a secret: http://www.azslow.com/index.php/board,13.0.html

Stuck a bit (last hours) with VST3 Sonar->Reaper (DX and VST2 works, but I want VST3 for completeness). Once done, I will convert routing (there is no open questions with it, but quite some work). And then - alpha
Looking very forward, azslow. If you need any additional alpha/pre alpha testers, let me know.
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Old 02-05-2018, 09:11 PM   #17
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WHAT? This is AMAZING.

I have so many old Sonar projects that I am trying to "reap"... convert/move to Reaper for finishing. HOLY CRAP

Is this real???
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Old 02-10-2018, 02:27 PM   #18
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azslow3, very nice work here. I was looking over the changelog and noticed this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by azslow3
- In Sonar it is possible to write a peace of envelop, leaving the rest of the timeline "undefined".
If you want to, this behavior can mostly be emulated in REAPER, if you enable the project setting Options/Automation items/Bypass underlying envelope outside of automation items (in the RPP as POOLEDENVATTACH&4), and write the envelope values into the RPP in the POOLEDENV section. Unlike in Sonar, values will be chased when seeking in between automation items.
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Old 02-10-2018, 03:03 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azslow3 View Post
I do not have 8.5 myself, I test with X2-Platinum range only,
but I can use failing files to understand what does not work.

Note that cwb, wrk, etc. parsing is not planned (cwp only). I do not have Apple, Windows only (Linux is possible... I cross-compile under Linux and GCC is "native" compiler for this extension). The tool is going to be closed source freeware with donation possibility.
Well I have 8.5 if you need another tester ;-)
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Old 02-11-2018, 01:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
azslow3, very nice work here. I was looking over the changelog and noticed this:
If you want to, this behavior can mostly be emulated in REAPER, if you enable the project setting Options/Automation items/Bypass underlying envelope outside of automation items (in the RPP as POOLEDENVATTACH&4), and write the envelope values into the RPP in the POOLEDENV section. Unlike in Sonar, values will be chased when seeking in between automation items.
Thanks for the tip! Writing the converter happened to be a good way to learn fine details of Sonar and Reaper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rothchild
Well I have 8.5 if you need another tester ;-)
I hope everyone can be a tester soon. I just want to add a bit more features and clarify some VST3 problems before publishing it.

While I was not thinking about pre X Sonars before, it happened to work fine with Sonar 7 file. I mean it seems like not a big effort to support any CWPs. DrumMaps for pre X will require some extra investigation (one not existing section prevent reliably match them with track outputs at the moment, but that is long term task since I do not convert DrumMaps at all in current version).
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:45 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themixtape View Post
Is this real???
You can check yourself, the first post is updated

That is a first alpha version! Far from everything is converted, some parts are converted partially on not precise. Please do not report that as bugs. But you can ask to put particular features higher in my TODO list


If someone think "oh... alpha... announced project without real use, unclear when finished if at all...".
This alpha (till possible bugs which I hope the community help me to spot) already can:
* create complete outline of your original project, including MIDI tracks, buses, AUX tracks and sends
* transfer FXes and SoftSynth of all supported kind (VST2(i), VST3(i), DX(i)), including plug-in presets from your original project.

So from what I know, it already does "a little bit" more then any cross DAW converter I could find in the Internet (prove me wrong if you know other).

I think with its under 100kB size and zero external dependencies it fits fine into general Reaper paradigm. The only deviation: it is written in "C" (not C++) and cross-compiled under Linux using GCC
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Old 02-13-2018, 05:48 PM   #22
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Congrats man, I have a feeling you are going to contribute an awful lot to this community over time, thanks for showing up
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Old 02-14-2018, 09:35 AM   #23
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Hi, thank you for offering this! I installed... although the projects load, they load blank. All of them. I should note that I'm using Reaper 5.62, 64-bit (and I have the 64-bit plugin installed of course). Is this only working for 5.70?

edit: installed a portable version of 5.70... much more success, here. Very cool. I should note that a lot of my projects were made with CW Home Studio 6 and 7, and occasionally Sonar 8. Never X2.

Thanks!

Last edited by themixtape; 02-14-2018 at 09:52 AM.
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Old 02-14-2018, 09:55 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themixtape View Post
Hi, thank you for offering this! I installed... although the projects load, they load blank. All of them. I should note that I'm using Reaper 5.62, 64-bit (and I have the 64-bit plugin installed of course). Is this only working for 5.70?

Thanks!
After conversion, you should see a message box. Does it say the conversion has failed? In that case, in which Sonar version these projects was created?

If converter reports no problem, but you get blank project... have you removed default project setting in Reaper preferences (as described in the installation instructions)? That is fixed in 5.71
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:34 PM   #25
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I've tried this on a few pretty complicated projects and I may never have to open Sonar again. Thanks!
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:55 PM   #26
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what a great idea... especially these days...

with some sonar refugees coming over, they should kiss your feet!
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:10 PM   #27
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Default My first conversion

Great program!

Here are a few observations I had, when converting my first project. This was an all-MIDI project of about 12 tracks, from SONAR (Producer 8.5), to the latest Reaper (5.70):

1. The order of tracks was completely different. I had to move them all back to the original order. I used Reaper Track Manager.

2. My project played MUCH slower. The tempos (and their changes) were all correct, and I did not get any errors on the conversion.

I think the reason is that in SONAR my TPQN (Ticks Per Quarter Note, as specified in Project Options->Clock) is always set to 600 (not the more usual 960, due to personal preference). I also had this set to 600 in Reaper (Preferences->Media->MIDI->Ticks per quarter note), so it was 600 in both programs.

My work-around was to change the TPQN to 960 in SONAR, and then re-do the conversion. (I kept TPQN at 600 in Reaper). This fixed the problem.

3. My tracks were not routed to any MIDI devices. This is probably unavoidable, since the (friendly) device names may not be the same between SONAR and Reaper.

To change the routing for Devices, I used Reaper's Routing Matrix. And for Channels, I used the Routing icon in TCP, for each track.

4. My MIDI FX were not converted, but this is probably un-avoidable. I had SONAR FX Velocity, and Frank's MIDI Humanizer.

5. To adjust various MIDI settings, I had to install the FX ReaControlMIDI on every track, and adjust appropriately (most importantly, Bank/Program Select, and Volume).

6. SONAR Markers didn't come across.


Sorry, if these may have already been reported; or if they are just user error!

But we're off to a great start. Keep up the good work, and I look forward to upcoming improvements.

- Tom
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Old 02-15-2018, 01:27 PM   #28
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Thank you for detailed reply!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tparker24 View Post
Great program!

Here are a few observations I had, when converting my first project. This was an all-MIDI project of about 12 tracks, from SONAR (Producer 8.5), to the latest Reaper (5.70):

1. The order of tracks was completely different. I had to move them all back to the original order. I used Reaper Track Manager.
That is by intention. I have to mirror Sonar way to work with MIDI to Reaper. So I have decided to put MIDI tracks under corresponding Synth tracks. But since I do explicit routing, reordering tracks does not change the signal route.

Quote:
2. My project played MUCH slower. The tempos (and their changes) were all correct, and I did not get any errors on the conversion.

I think the reason is that in SONAR my TPQN (Ticks Per Quarter Note, as specified in Project Options->Clock) is always set to 600 (not the more usual 960, due to personal preference). I also had this set to 600 in Reaper (Preferences->Media->MIDI->Ticks per quarter note), so it was 600 in both programs.

My work-around was to change the TPQN to 960 in SONAR, and then re-do the conversion. (I kept TPQN at 600 in Reaper). This fixed the problem.
I have not tested anything except 960. My fault.

Quote:
3. My tracks were not routed to any MIDI devices. This is probably unavoidable, since the (friendly) device names may not be the same between SONAR and Reaper.

To change the routing for Devices, I used Reaper's Routing Matrix. And for Channels, I used the Routing icon in TCP, for each track.
Yes, I have decided it is not worse the effort and can be confusing (in case names do not match). Also Sonar 7 does not save MIDI devices names into CWP, not sure 8.5 does.

Quote:
4. My MIDI FX were not converted, but this is probably un-avoidable. I had SONAR FX Velocity, and Frank's MIDI Humanizer.
Sonar support MFX (DX) MIDI plug-ins only, Reaper does not support them. Theoretically can be done explicitly for particular plug-ins, but low in priority at the moment.

Quote:
5. To adjust various MIDI settings, I had to install the FX ReaControlMIDI on every track, and adjust appropriately (most importantly, Bank/Program Select, and Volume).

6. SONAR Markers didn't come across.
Planned, but not yet there.

Quote:
Sorry, if these may have already been reported; or if they are just user error!
If user can make an error, that is programmers fault
But in this case you have found one bug and notice incompleteness of current alpha. So I do not see any "user errors". Thanks again.
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Old 02-16-2018, 09:36 AM   #29
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Here's a sample of a Sonar 5 project. None of the .cwp files from my copy of Sonar 5 will open.
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:23 AM   #30
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Quote:
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Here's a sample of a Sonar 5 project. None of the .cwp files from my copy of Sonar 5 will open.
Isn't everything before 6/7 very different? Some where in there I believe the projects stopped being backward compatible. Maybe opening and saving a copy in a newer version would help.
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:27 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
Here's a sample of a Sonar 5 project. None of the .cwp files from my copy of Sonar 5 will open.
Please try with http://www.azslow.com/index.php?acti...a=view;down=57
You will get some warnings, but at least you should see your projects.

For the warnings, I just do not know:
1) does Sonar 5 support mono outputs from SoftSynth (for multi-outputs synth)?
2) does Sonar 5 support audio stretching?
If yes, I can give you instructions to help me support that in conversion.

Note that MIDI track parameters (channel, bank, patch) and send automations are not yet converted in current version.
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:39 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neenja View Post
Isn't everything before 6/7 very different? Some where in there I believe the projects stopped being backward compatible. Maybe opening and saving a copy in a newer version would help.
The project from Glennbo does not seems like different, except 2 questions I have mentions (and in respect to features I already convert... that is far from everything).

I do not mind to support whatever CWPs. But since I do not have older Sonars, users interested in "antic" compatibility will have to cooperate a bit (providing examples and making some specific projects). Everything is in your hands, dear users
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:43 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azslow3 View Post
Please try with http://www.azslow.com/index.php?acti...a=view;down=57
You will get some warnings, but at least you should see your projects.

For the warnings, I just do not know:
1) does Sonar 5 support mono outputs from SoftSynth (for multi-outputs synth)?
2) does Sonar 5 support audio stretching?
If yes, I can give you instructions to help me support that in conversion.

Note that MIDI track parameters (channel, bank, patch) and send automations are not yet converted in current version.
It's trying to import some of my old Sonar 5 projects. Most of them don't though and just give me the message "Unfortunately, something went completely wrong, sorry...".

But some of them (maybe it's only ones with audio) popup a search for the audio dialog, and when I point it to my Sonar audio folder it acts like it is loading the waves, but when it's finished, nothing has been loaded in Reaper.
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:45 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neenja View Post
Isn't everything before 6/7 very different? Some where in there I believe the projects stopped being backward compatible. Maybe opening and saving a copy in a newer version would help.
I switched to Reaper at Sonar 5 ten years ago, so Sonar 5 was the last one I had.
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:55 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azslow3 View Post
The project from Glennbo does not seems like different, except 2 questions I have mentions (and in respect to features I already convert... that is far from everything).

I do not mind to support whatever CWPs. But since I do not have older Sonars, users interested in "antic" compatibility will have to cooperate a bit (providing examples and making some specific projects). Everything is in your hands, dear users
1) does Sonar 5 support mono outputs from SoftSynth (for multi-outputs synth)?

Sonar 5 could do multi-output softsynths, but didn't handle mono correctly. Back then I had DFHS for drums, and it had both mono and stereo outs. Kick and Snare were mono, and everything else was stereo. Sonar 5 stoopidly put the kick and snare on a stereo out with kick on the left and snare on the right. I had to buy a third party VSTi adapter to make it work correctly.

That said, I'm not concerned at all with the conversion of any softsynths out of my old Sonar projects, because I don't even have most of them any longer, and any of the old softsynths I do have from back then have been replaced by newer versions, like in the case of DFHS which now I use Superior Drummer, even though I still have DFHS.

2) does Sonar 5 support audio stretching?

Seems like it might, but I never used any stretching of audio back then. All my recordings were straight midi drums, midi keyboards, guitars, basses, and vocals, just recorded as they were played.
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Old 02-16-2018, 11:21 AM   #36
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I opened the file you provided in Sonar 8.5 and saved it as a new file and it said it opened it with no errors.
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Old 02-16-2018, 11:44 AM   #37
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Quote:
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I opened the file you provided in Sonar 8.5 and saved it as a new file and it said it opened it with no errors.
Your version of the file opens in Reaper with a "no problem occurred during conversion" message, but the three audio and six midi tracks don't load up in Reaper.

The version I posted pops up with a "!25 conversion warnings" and no tracks load in Reaper.

Does the default new project in Reaper have to be something special for importing Sonar projects?

My default new project template in Reaper opens with a full set of Superior Drummer 2 drums across 8 tracks, and another six audio tracks setup for recording live acoustic drums. All that stays the same after trying to load both the converted to Sonar 8.5 and my older Sonar 5 file.

Also, my Sonar 5 was so long ago that I wasn't yet using per project folders, so all the audio is located in a separate audio folder if that makes any difference.
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Old 02-16-2018, 12:22 PM   #38
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Quote:
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The version I posted pops up with a "!25 conversion warnings" and no tracks load in Reaper.
That is expected, some of them I can already remove (just remove as warning, since you confirm Sonar 5 can not work with mono synth outputs by design).

Quote:
Does the default new project in Reaper have to be something special for importing Sonar projects?
YES. It has to be... empty! I mean not default project as a project, but the line in Reaper preferences.

Otherwise you get...
Quote:
All that stays the same after trying to load both the converted to Sonar 8.5 and my older Sonar 5 file.
.
As described in the installation instruction.

That is fixed in 5.71 (which is not released yet).


If you provide "something went completely wrong" example, I will try to fix that as well.
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Old 02-16-2018, 01:54 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azslow3 View Post
That is expected, some of them I can already remove (just remove as warning, since you confirm Sonar 5 can not work with mono synth outputs by design).


YES. It has to be... empty! I mean not default project as a project, but the line in Reaper preferences.

Otherwise you get...
.
As described in the installation instruction.

That is fixed in 5.71 (which is not released yet).


If you provide "something went completely wrong" example, I will try to fix that as well.
Going to empty for default project was it. Now a lot of my older Sonar projects will open, even though they throw out some errors or warnings.

The ones that were throwing out the "something went completely wrong" were from even older versions of Sonar. When I found one that would generate that message, the file date was from 2002. I opened it in Sonar 5, saved it under a different name, and then Reaper could open it.

Very cool having access to some of my really old projects without having to launch Sonar. Thanks for all your hard work on this conversion process!
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:20 PM   #40
gkurtenbach
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Tried this on a simple 4 track project. Amazing!

couple short comings:

-audio loops don't repeat properly (rendered track in Sonar for work around)
-clips automations didn't come through (rendered track in Sonar for work around)
-input gain on master channel was missing (Reaper doesn't have this feature, work around by inserting volume FX on master track)

Whatever the case, having FX come through perfectly was a god send and I was easily able to closely recreate the original Sonar mix.

Keep up the the stellar work. Let me know how I can help. Happy to test and log bugs.
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