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Old 12-13-2018, 10:14 AM   #1
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Default Firewire Drivers and Windows 10

It seems my Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 will not "play nice" with my new Win 10 PC.

I think I need the 1394 Legacy driver.

I downloaded a 1394 Legacy installer (It's a KB installer) but it doesn't appear to actually install the legacy driver anywhere I can find it.

How (Where?) can I get the Legacy 1394 driver, and get my computer to see it, so it can be usefully installed? Is it even possible?

Anyone have a clue?

Thank you, in advance!
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Old 12-13-2018, 10:22 AM   #2
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Default Further on this subject.....

What's been happening is that the Saffire Unit will connect and lock on, and work perfectly but then suddenly disconnect itself.

Also, another strange thing is that when I connect a USB midi cable (from a keyboard) to one of the computer's USB ports I get a loud hum (like a ground loop hum) which I've never experienced before.

Maybe I need to just do a clean install of Win 7?

Help.
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Old 12-13-2018, 01:00 PM   #3
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Maybe won't help you, but I call Focusrite often on Skype at: 310-322-5500 … but then I purchase Skype annual calling plan for few $$ each year and lots of free US long distance. .
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Old 12-13-2018, 01:08 PM   #4
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When I had to use the legacy driver in Windows 7 for firewire, all I had to do was select it. Seems MS removed it as of Windows 8. Sigh.

Ok I found this info on a forum that seems promising:

Code:
I have managed to get some joy temporarily using a third party firewire stack/driver.

http://www.qimaging.com/support/downloads/

Scroll down to the bottom to the IEEE-1394 section.

disclaimer: Your millage may vary + backup your data!

But this seems to be working perfectly with my RME Fireface 400 on Win8 x64
Also check what they say here:

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=15505
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Old 12-13-2018, 02:18 PM   #5
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Default Will do....

Thanks, to all who've answered, so far.
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Old 12-13-2018, 02:30 PM   #6
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When I had to use the legacy driver in Windows 7 for firewire, all I had to do was select it. Seems MS removed it as of Windows 8. Sigh.
Maybe it needs to be downloaded then switched to:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...ndows-8-1-or-w

I don't have a win10 machine handy to install it on that has FW other than my main DAW but the latest FW stack works so it doesn't really matter to me. Also, that article is pretty old, the one time I needed the legacy driver was back in windows 8 and haven't needed it since so be sure this is the problem that actually needs solving.

I remember that particular article (it's why I needed the legacy driver temporarily until RME fixed the driver issue), it was resolved by RME near the end of the thread FWIW removing the need for the legacy driver but that was for RME.
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Old 12-13-2018, 05:10 PM   #7
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so be sure this is the problem that actually needs solving.
Hey Karbo -

Strange you should say this.

After doing a few (I thought) unrelated tweaks, having to do with computer performance settings, power options, etc.., the Saffire has been solid. Don't know why. Will have to watch over a few days so....here's hoping.
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Old 12-13-2018, 05:14 PM   #8
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Still haven't figured the ground loop hum, yet.

tried making sure the computer and the keyboard are plugged into different wall sockets. Nope.
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Old 12-13-2018, 05:44 PM   #9
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Separate outlets for a single audio setup is a bad idea, actually. If one part of the system wants to ground to the other outlet, that's a ground loop. You ideally want everything in the system on the same ground. Then you deal with problematic connections between the pieces of gear as need be (isolators of various kinds).
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Old 12-13-2018, 06:45 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by dea-man View Post
Hey Karbo -

Strange you should say this.

After doing a few (I thought) unrelated tweaks, having to do with computer performance settings, power options, etc.., the Saffire has been solid. Don't know why. Will have to watch over a few days so....here's hoping.
Excellent
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Old 12-13-2018, 07:56 PM   #11
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It's definitely much more stable.

Almost perfect, but still, every now and then, I see the "firewire locked light" flicker on and off.

Lost sound once or twice so there's still more road to travel.
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Old 12-13-2018, 08:14 PM   #12
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What firewire chip do you have? Is it a PCI card connected to a new motherboard that doesn't have native PCI, but instead uses a bridge chip to provide a PCI port that is connected to the PCIE bus?
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Old 12-13-2018, 08:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Saffire firewire range (Pro 14, Pro 24, Pro 24 DSP, Pro 26, Pro 40, Liquid Saffire 56)

Works with Windows 10 Fall Creators Update? YES
Quote:
If you are unsure about the compatibility of your firewire chipset, please download this tool, and run OHCItool.exe. If it reads "This controller is not compatible with DICE drivers" or "Compatibility Unknown", then you'll need to replace your firewire card with a compatible one.

https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-...Saffire-range-

Also make sure there aren't any apps competing for the SC using different sample rates, that would likely cause the lock light to flicker during the transition. You might also consider setting the outputs in Reaper to higher than 1/2, such as 3/4 then routing that in MixControl to physical 1/2 (I would assume that's possible). The reason is the OS will default to 1/2 and this keeps them separate.
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Old 12-13-2018, 09:03 PM   #14
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Interesting, I've been experiencing an identical problem with my Saffire Pro 40.
The light flickers and the it cause the audio to skip.
I have used OHCI tool and it the chipset is one that is approved by Focusrite.

On my system it only happens when my CPU is under a medium to heavy load.
I'll try routing REAPER to a different output and see if that helps.
It's interesting to hear I'm not the only one having this problem, for a while I thought my saffire was dying, but it seems to be a windows 10 issue.
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Old 12-13-2018, 09:40 PM   #15
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As well as all the suggestions so far, the problem could be your power supply connection on the back of the Focusrite (if you're using that rather than firewire bus power). Wiggle it a bit, rotate it. Does it cut in and out? I had the occasional flickering lights thing with my Saffire Pro 14. The connection was the problem.

Last edited by Goldreap; 12-14-2018 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 12-14-2018, 11:58 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldreap View Post
As well as all the suggestions so far, the problem could be your power supply connection on the back of the Focusrite (if you're using that rather than USB power). Wiggle it a bit, rotate it. Does it cut in and out? I had the occasional flickering lights thing with my Saffire Pro 14. The connection was the problem.
This is the one suggestion that kind of popped out at me when I read it.

One, I've discovered that the unit is powered just fine without plugging in it's "wall wart". Interesting. Any pro's or con's to allowing the computer to power the unit?

Second, I changed the firewire cable itself and I haven't had a audio/software drop, yet. I think it may have been the firewire cable itself, all along. Will watch and report.

Another piece of info about the "hum" is that it only sound off when both an audio AND a USB cable are plugged in, at the same time. It so happens, that both are plugged into the same keyboard.
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Old 12-14-2018, 11:59 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drumphil View Post
What firewire chip do you have? Is it a PCI card connected to a new motherboard that doesn't have native PCI, but instead uses a bridge chip to provide a PCI port that is connected to the PCIE bus?
It's a PCI add on board plugged directly into a PCI slot on the motherboard.
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Old 12-14-2018, 12:00 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Maybe it needs to be downloaded then switched to:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...ndows-8-1-or-w

I don't have a win10 machine handy to install it on that has FW other than my main DAW but the latest FW stack works so it doesn't really matter to me. Also, that article is pretty old, the one time I needed the legacy driver was back in windows 8 and haven't needed it since so be sure this is the problem that actually needs solving.

I remember that particular article (it's why I needed the legacy driver temporarily until RME fixed the driver issue), it was resolved by RME near the end of the thread FWIW removing the need for the legacy driver but that was for RME.
Yup, that was one of the first sites I visited and downloaded the installer, but could not get the legacy driver to actually show up.
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Old 12-14-2018, 12:31 PM   #19
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May I suggest a trial
If you have the latest version of Reaper installed uninstall it
And install version 5.75.
I have had many problems with the new version of Reaper installed.
Reaper is behaving for me much better with this installed.
Will not hurt to try this quick and easy.


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Old 12-14-2018, 12:40 PM   #20
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+1 for the move the firewire cable solution though with a Firestudio
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Old 12-14-2018, 01:43 PM   #21
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Yup, that was one of the first sites I visited and downloaded the installer, but could not get the legacy driver to actually show up.
Where did you look? It says that it gets installed into program files and you probably have to manually browse to it. Assuming you even need it.
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Old 12-14-2018, 04:17 PM   #22
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Where did you look? It says that it gets installed into program files and you probably have to manually browse to it. Assuming you even need it.
I looked all over.

Everywhere I could think of, in C drive, but couldn't find it. I even found places on the net that indicated the path of installation but never found it there.

So far, so good. Doesn't appear, at the moment that I'll need it.
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Old 12-14-2018, 04:19 PM   #23
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Just an FYI in case you ever do need it. From the KB article:
Quote:
1.Right-click the Legacy1394.inf file under one of the following paths based on the computer's architecture:

C:\Program Files\1394 OHCI Compliant Host Controller (Legacy)\x86_driver

C:\Program Files\1394 OHCI Compliant Host Controller (Legacy)\x64_driver
I would think that it would be ^there after running the install, but no biggie, you may not even need it.
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Old 12-14-2018, 04:24 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Just an FYI in case you ever do need it. From the KB article:
Thanks Karbo -

Yeah, that looks like the same article I was referencing. I went to that address and found the folders (86, 64) but no driver in it.

I find system, security catalog and setup information files but no .ini file. (That is what a drive would be, right?)
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Old 12-14-2018, 04:29 PM   #25
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Another strange quirk, that was true in my Win 7 system as well, is the fact that, once the Saffire locks on, I have to physically go to the Sync control in the Saffire Software, and switch the sync from "Internal" to "SPDIF" and back again to "Internal, before sound will actually move through the unit.
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Old 12-14-2018, 04:29 PM   #26
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Thanks Karbo -

Yeah, that looks like the same article I was referencing. I went to that address and found the folders (86, 64) but no driver in it.

I find system, security catalog and setup information files but no .ini file. (That is what a drive would be, right?)
It would be an .inf file. Can you screenshot the open folder? You'd also have wanted to install the x64 version not the x86 version.
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Old 12-14-2018, 04:33 PM   #27
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It would be an .inf file. Can you screenshot the open folder? You'd also have wanted to install the x64 version not the x86 version.
Yeah, sorry, that's what I meant (knew it was something like that). It's not there.

Yes, I installed the 64 version.
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Old 12-14-2018, 04:34 PM   #28
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FYI that I just found that the article has at typo, the x64 package gets installed in Program Files (x86), then in the x64 Driver folder you should see the inf file:



Someone made a boo boo when creating the installer.
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Old 12-14-2018, 04:37 PM   #29
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Wait, are you telling me, that's it?!?!

I tried to access it through Device Manager to update the driver, and while it would let me get to the folder, the folder itself would not open to reveal it's content. I figured the reason it wouldn't do so was because there was no driver contained therein.

Is that (.inf file) the legacy driver?
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Old 12-14-2018, 04:39 PM   #30
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Is that (.inf file) the legacy driver?
It's the description file that helps get it installed, the actual driver is ohci1394.sys. So do the same drill via device manager and manually browse to that folder instead or do it how the article describes by just browsing to the folder via computer and installing, then going to device manager to switch from modern to legacy...

After you install the 1394 OHCI Legacy Driver.msi file, follow these steps:

1.Right-click the Legacy1394.inf file.
2.Click Install.
3.Open Device Manager in Control Panel.
4.Expand IEEE 1394 Bus host controllers, and then locate the host controller.
5.Right-click the host controller, and then click Update Driver Software.
6.Click Browse my computer for driver software.
7.Click Let me pick from a list of device drivers on my computer.
8.Click Generic1394 OHCI compliant host controller (Legacy), and then click the Next button.
9.Click the Close button.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...ndows-8-1-or-w
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Old 12-14-2018, 04:46 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post

1.Right-click the Legacy1394.inf file.
This is the step I did not know or understand.

However, right now everything has been running rock solid for hours so I am cool.

Good to know though.

Thank you.

Would a "hum isolator" help with the USB and audio cable debacle? The hum wasn't present on my Win 7 machine.
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Old 12-14-2018, 04:50 PM   #32
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Would a "hum isolator" help with the USB and audio cable debacle? The hum wasn't present on my Win 7 machine.
Very often yes, they are expensive but I keep a few around for such reasons (hums wherever they occur). Which kind are you considering? There are several types, one that plugs into AC and ones that go inline with signal cables and I'm not sure which one will solve your issue.

The guesstimate is the one that goes into the AC socket is what you need but it is a ground "loop" so placing it on the outputs of your sound card may also work (or not), it's down to testing stuff etc. to be sure. It is nice to have a couple lying around though, because they simply make testing and life easier.
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Old 12-15-2018, 08:52 PM   #33
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Exactly what is the signal chain? What devices are in that chain. Are the connections balanced or unbalanced? What cables are used?

These are the details that matter when determining the cause and best solution to ground loop noise.
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:00 AM   #34
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Just following up with my findings as I have a similar problem.

I feel pretty certain that for me this is an issue with a recent update to Windows 10
It definitely doesn't have anything to do with REAPER, it can happen whatever I'm doing as long as their is a medium to heavy load on the CPU.
My firewire chipset is one of the ones that Focusrite still recommends

I have 2 Focusrite pro 40's
They both have the light flickering audio cutting out problem with windows 10.
I have used this computer with the exact same hardware for years running windows 8 windows 10 and as a Hackintosh, I had no issues until a couple months ago after an update to windows 10.

Both these interface still work completely fine with my Mac Book
It doesn't seem to have anything to do with the power or firewire cable used. (the same cables work fine for my mac and always worked fine until recently with windows)
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:22 AM   #35
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Try the Windows Fall Creator update.
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Old 01-09-2019, 03:59 PM   #36
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I'm not sure if this helps, but I had to go back to Legacy firewire drivers to use my firewire interface in Windows 7.

Also, I had intermittent dropouts with my system and was going crazy tracking it down until I finally figured out that the Windows 7 CDRom driver was screwing things up. I disabled my CDRom and everything has been great since.

There are some latency checker system utilities available. I'm not sure if they run under Win10 but they helped me troubleshoot. My system has been gold for several years since I tracked down the problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J Riley Hill View Post
Just following up with my findings as I have a similar problem.

I feel pretty certain that for me this is an issue with a recent update to Windows 10
It definitely doesn't have anything to do with REAPER, it can happen whatever I'm doing as long as their is a medium to heavy load on the CPU.
My firewire chipset is one of the ones that Focusrite still recommends

I have 2 Focusrite pro 40's
They both have the light flickering audio cutting out problem with windows 10.
I have used this computer with the exact same hardware for years running windows 8 windows 10 and as a Hackintosh, I had no issues until a couple months ago after an update to windows 10.

Both these interface still work completely fine with my Mac Book
It doesn't seem to have anything to do with the power or firewire cable used. (the same cables work fine for my mac and always worked fine until recently with windows)
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Old 01-09-2019, 04:52 PM   #37
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Hey thanks for the suggestions everyone
Yeah i've tried the creator update, and I've also tried the legacy drivers, same issue with all of them.

maybe the pci card is fried or something
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Old 01-09-2019, 05:00 PM   #38
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That is a definite possibility. I replaced my FireWire card, too!
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Old 01-11-2019, 12:32 AM   #39
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I’m using 1394 FireWire ever since 2003, same Converter too.
They call it Z-Link but it’s 6 pin FireWire and I was prepared to just buy a new Ferrofish, same developer, but it’s working as always.
This is the Creamware A16 Ultra from 2004. I’ve used this thing live forever and got worried about Windows 7 x64. But all FireWire Drivers worked fine for me.

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Old 01-11-2019, 02:38 AM   #40
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Still haven't figured the ground loop hum, yet.

tried making sure the computer and the keyboard are plugged into different wall sockets. Nope.
Did the ground loop appear with the new PC? I had the same problem with new PC.
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