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12-12-2018, 05:38 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 139
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anyone using reainsert on the master bus for outboard compressor?
hi all,
hoping to get into using a bit of outboard on my 2buss at some point. I've got an Art PRO VLA II home on loan just to do some experimenting before I spend any real money.
What I'm finding is that with reainsert on the 2buss there is a noticeable phasing/flanging going on even though I've "pinged" and tried the automatic delay compensation.
It's way more noticeable in my cans as opposed to mains but it's definitely there.
Chain is going out of a focusrite octopre mkii and back in on inputs/outputs 1 and 2 on adat (babyface pro is main interface).
Any ideas?
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12-12-2018, 10:35 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,686
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"Phasing" usually occurs when there are two audio routes running in parallel (one of course unwanted). You should be able to find the other one after muting (unpluging) the o0utboard hardware.
But what exactly are you hoping to improve by using the hardware device regarding some supposedly much cheaper and more handy workalike plugin ?
-Michjael
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12-13-2018, 05:12 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 139
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i'm not necessarily thinking i'm going to improve anything. I'm experimenting with some analog gear because I like to go into my studio and experiment with stuff... it's fun ya know?
to me reainsert shouldn't be working in paralell? but it definitely is... even though plug is set to 100% wet.
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12-13-2018, 06:57 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Tv, Italia
Posts: 113
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on reaperBlog YT channel there is a video about that.
despite that, i never had satisfying results with reainsert and external gear, sadly.
if you don't need to work in real time, i suggest to print the parallel processed track and fix the timing issue by hand.
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12-13-2018, 08:30 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerododo
on reaperBlog YT channel there is a video about that.
despite that, i never had satisfying results with reainsert and external gear, sadly.
if you don't need to work in real time, i suggest to print the parallel processed track and fix the timing issue by hand.
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The thing is, I don't want any parallel processing period. I assumed the signal would pass directly through the compressor, not in parallel but it seems that maybe this is not how reainsert works?
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12-13-2018, 09:55 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orbiterred
The thing is, I don't want any parallel processing period.
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In fact this kind of "parallel processing" does not make any sense. Hence it obviously is not intended.
-Michael
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12-13-2018, 03:28 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,012
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check if you have any accidental double (parallel) routing going on in RME TotalMix's Matrix view. This can easily happen. I've been using ReaInsert on individual tracks and on the master track for years with lots of analog hardware without any issues (no glitches, no phasing).
My way of using ReaInsert on individual tracks:
As you can see, I'm not simply inserting ReaInsert into a track. I wanna be able to listen to the processed signal in realtime in the context of my mix. However, ReaInsert requires the track fader to be set at unity gain so the processed signal would probably be too loud in the context of the mix. This is why I nudge the original audio into a child track of ReaInsert's track. Now, the original audio can pass through ReaInsert and the hardware @ unity gain. Volume can be adjusted via the fader of ReaInsert's parent folder which also hosts further plugin processing if desired.
The processed signal can either be recorded as a new take right inside the original item or as a separate take on ReaInsert's track (which is therefore set to record its output).
.
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12-13-2018, 05:51 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 139
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Great stuff!! Thanks and will check out totalmix for sure, I was wondering if there might be something going on there and honestly, I don't totally understand it (that's an understatement).
This looks great for individual tracks etc... any idea how to approach the master bus? or better off to run a subgroup into the compressor before the master bus?
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12-14-2018, 11:11 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orbiterred
Great stuff!! Thanks and will check out totalmix for sure, I was wondering if there might be something going on there and honestly, I don't totally understand it (that's an understatement).
This looks great for individual tracks etc... any idea how to approach the master bus? or better off to run a subgroup into the compressor before the master bus?
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Of course, ReaInsert works on the master track, too. However, this isn't the way I'm using it because I have an analog summing engine (SSL Sigma) to mix my recorded tracks in the analog domain. I'm routing folder tracks to it via hardware outputs of each folder. The analog mix of the Sigma is then further processed with other analog devices before being fed back into Reaper where it gets recorded.
When mixing in the box, it might be beneficial to have a pre-mastertrack bus (incl. processing through ReaInsert or without). It is a matter of workflow and personal preference.
Here's the current Matrix View of my Babyface. In my case, I'm not using any of the Babyface's hardware inputs. Therefore, I have no input signal (entire upper section - vertically labelled "Hardware Inputs") routed to any hardware output (last line labelled "Outputs"). However, I'm routing the 12 possible software playback channels (vertically labelled "Software Playback") in a "standard" diagonal way (each signal to its own exclusive hardware output). In your case, you might see several sources in the same column which are routed (and mixed) to the same hardware output simultaneously. Such a routing may not be what you want.
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Last edited by SonicAxiom; 12-15-2018 at 08:00 PM.
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12-15-2018, 05:17 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 139
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This is awesome man thanks
Out of curiosity what you using for your outs and ins over adat?
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12-15-2018, 07:27 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orbiterred
This is awesome man thanks
Out of curiosity what you using for your outs and ins over adat?
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you're most welcome!
Babyface is "only" my secondary audio interface which allows me to output browser audio, media player audio and similar "auxilliary" audio sources on my main computer while this one is simultaneously running mixes with Reaper over my main audio interface (a Ferrofish A32 Dante interconnecting all my analog and digital studio gear via audio-over-IP). Thanks to the Babyface I can easily compare my own Reaper master mix with a commercial track (CD, wave file, mp3) or any other audio source in my studio at unity gain by simply toggling a solo button on my digital mixing console which is only used for this kind of signal monitoring/referencing and to provide cue-mixes and never for actual mixing or mastering duties.
Babyface's ADAT input receives my Reaper mixing/mastering signal on ADAT 1/2 to analyze it with DigiCheck's Totalizer. I'm also using Totalizer permanently to check all recording signals during tracking.
here's what my studio's audio/MIDI/data network looks like (click to enlarge):
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12-15-2018, 10:54 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,686
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I just tried it with my Audio6 interface: ReaInsert works exactly as expected, as well in a track's FX chain, as in the master's FX chain.
-Michael
Last edited by mschnell; 12-15-2018 at 11:03 PM.
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12-16-2018, 01:06 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 169
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I started using reainsert about 2 weeks ago and loving it. Getting a ULN8 3d has given me more flexibility
chain: DAW>RME HDSPe>ULN8>LavryDA10> Safe Sound Toolbox>JLM PEQ500 pair>Lavry AD10>ULN8>RME HDSPe>DAW
It really does bring it to life
* Reainsert rocks and so does Reamote, +1 for both being developed.
[snipped below here]
Last edited by bcslaam; 12-16-2018 at 10:16 PM.
Reason: this OT bit was meant for another thread
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12-16-2018, 08:43 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 139
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wow you guys both have way more going on than i do impressive stuff.
Just a warning to anyone playing around with TotalMix for the first time... don't just go clicking things, I hit a button and my Babyface went FULL MAX volume, lucky i didn't blow anything up! Definitely woke me up though!
I do seem to have ReaInsert working properly on the master though now (some routing stuff) and while it's cool it's sort of what I expected. A $350 stereo comp (PRO VLA II) doesn't really add anything that my free acoustica audio TAN compressor doesn't.
Outboard is neat but I think I'll prolly have to spend quite a bit more money to get up where it really makes a diff... and that money could probably be spent better else where at this point.
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12-16-2018, 03:25 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orbiterred
wow you guys both have way more going on than i do impressive stuff.
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I just did a 5 Minutes test (most of which were taken by searching for a cable to connect an out to an in of the interface). ReaInsert just worked after selecting the ins and outs.
Michael (in fact hating the idea of outboard hardware)
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01-01-2019, 04:35 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,905
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I am directing all my tracks to a pre=master Bus.
I have Reainsert as FX on this pre-mastertrack
I have un-clicked all normal tracks to master.
I leave Reinsert track "to master" clicked.
This said when I try to render no audio is
registered on resulting wave file.
Can anyone shed a light on this please?
Grinder
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01-01-2019, 04:52 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grinder
I am directing all my tracks to a pre=master Bus.
I have Reainsert as FX on this pre-mastertrack
I have un-clicked all normal tracks to master.
I leave Reinsert track "to master" clicked.
This said when I try to render no audio is
registered on resulting wave file.
Can anyone shed a light on this please?
Grinder
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are you using "online" rendering speed?
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01-01-2019, 05:43 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,905
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Many thanks SonicAxiom
I am using x1
Grinder
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01-01-2019, 05:50 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,012
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is it not working despite using online rendering?
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01-01-2019, 07:23 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,905
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NO not working I jusrt get a wave file with no audio.
I am just recording to another track then rendering that track
to get a result..
I am using UAD plugins as well as others
I thought it should work.
Grinder
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01-01-2019, 07:48 PM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,012
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hope I'm understanding your signalflow well
when using ReaInsert to insert real hardware gear (using real hardware ins/outs of your interface) the only way Reaper can render this signal is by using the online rendering option in the render dialog because the signal has to actually travel through the entire hardware loop in real-time. Offline rendering is not possible here - even 1x offline.
If you are inserting UAD plugins and have no analog insert loop set up, this might also apply (not sure, never tried this). Not sure why and how you are using ReaInsert in this situation. When using UAD plugins while rendering you might have to experiment with ticking or unticking some options on the "Preferences - Plugins - VST" page. For instance, I always have "inform plug-ins of offline rendering state" ticked (however, I don't have UAD). There's even a dedicated option that refers to UAD plugins.
could you provide a screenshot or the track template of the track in question?
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01-01-2019, 09:15 PM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,905
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Many thanks
I will try what you said SonicAxiom and get back.
Maybe tomorrow.
Thanks Again
Grinder
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