|
|
|
12-25-2017, 11:21 AM
|
#1
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 289
|
Restricting range of Piano Roll
Hi,
I did a google search but couldn't find a complete answer for this.
I often use multiple VSTi instruments that should have some definite pitch ranges specific to them. Like a member of a string family, woods, brass etc.
Also there are keyswitch notes for those VSTi what I'd like to not trigger accidentally.
So, is there a way to restrict the piano roll of each MIDI track/VSTi instrument to a certain pitch range of its own so I won't be able to enter/paint out-of-range notes in it?
Similar to "key snap" feature already built in. But instead of restricting it to a key, restricting to a pitch range.
Even better, instead of a strict editing restriction maybe just highlighting that range in the piano roll?
This would make it easier for me,
1) To keep instruments' ranges clean even if I forgot which pitch range it was in.
2) Prevent me from accidentally entering notes for keyswitches which in some cases, changes the articulation.
Thank you all!
|
|
|
12-25-2017, 01:05 PM
|
#2
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 720
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by SymboliC
Hi,
I did a google search but couldn't find a complete answer for this.
I often use multiple VSTi instruments that should have some definite pitch ranges specific to them. Like a member of a string family, woods, brass etc.
Also there are keyswitch notes for those VSTi what I'd like to not trigger accidentally.
So, is there a way to restrict the piano roll of each MIDI track/VSTi instrument to a certain pitch range of its own so I won't be able to enter/paint out-of-range notes in it?
Similar to "key snap" feature already built in. But instead of restricting it to a key, restricting to a pitch range.
Even better, instead of a strict editing restriction maybe just highlighting that range in the piano roll?
This would make it easier for me,
1) To keep instruments' ranges clean even if I forgot which pitch range it was in.
2) Prevent me from accidentally entering notes for keyswitches which in some cases, changes the articulation.
Thank you all!
|
You can of course scale the MIDI edit windows to match the individual ranges displayed in the sample library instances.
A lot of people work with a bar-zero approach - ie, the dummy measure simply sends MIDI setup messages (sometimes a lot of them). As a visual guide, you could put zero-volume note events in this bar to indicate top and bottom of range.
Sounds like you need to do a bit of templating... Can you give an example of the type of VSTis you're using and how - eg separate MIDI tracks per instrument/section routed to a multi host, VSTis per track? Might be useful for others to chip in. We all have different libraries and different ways of using them.
A good way to start with templates is build one while you work on a project. Get it looking and behaving as you wish, then kill all but the routing, VSTi instances and setup content and resave the empty file as a template ready for next time.
|
|
|
12-25-2017, 01:53 PM
|
#3
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 289
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Lyon
You can of course scale the MIDI edit windows to match the individual ranges displayed in the sample library instances.
A lot of people work with a bar-zero approach - ie, the dummy measure simply sends MIDI setup messages (sometimes a lot of them). As a visual guide, you could put zero-volume note events in this bar to indicate top and bottom of range.
Sounds like you need to do a bit of templating... Can you give an example of the type of VSTis you're using and how - eg separate MIDI tracks per instrument/section routed to a multi host, VSTis per track? Might be useful for others to chip in. We all have different libraries and different ways of using them.
A good way to start with templates is build one while you work on a project. Get it looking and behaving as you wish, then kill all but the routing, VSTi instances and setup content and resave the empty file as a template ready for next time.
|
Thank you for quick response! But I couldn't quite get what you mean in your reply?
I always use a basic template of mine and once is everything is optimally setup, this is OK. But I couldn't find a way to setup instrument ranges for MIDI tracks so everytime I work on a project I have to make sure every note sits in correct range of the instrument.
Like, not having a C5 note in Double-Bass/Cellos or a C2 note in Violins.
And the way I set up/route my templates are,
Usually I'd have a Kontakt library of 16 instruments(6 violins, 4 violas, 4 cellos etc) per instance, and a separate MIDI track + an Audio output track for each instrument.
The question I'm asking is,
when composing, I want to be able to restrict the piano roll of the midi editor of midi track for i.e. violins not to extend beyond/lower than C4(just an example)... So I'll write it in correct octave or at least in pitch ranges that this instruments is strong with.
This is for one reason.
I usually do a quick mock up when I come up with an interesting idea of composition and write whole string section in Full Ensemble Patches.
Then, I separate and distribute the notes into sub-instruments of the string section with correct ranges.
Sometimes, instead of using an ensemble, I may just go with a single instrument like Trombone or Horns. But since I'm not a music student, nor an experienced composer, whenever I need to write a melody line for Trombone, I go back and look for that instrument's range.
Instead of that, I want to be able to highlight the correct range or emphasize it on piano roll, which would also contribute me while trying to memorize the correct ranges of instruments at the same time.
I hope I could clarify it this time. =)
Thank you a lot!
|
|
|
12-25-2017, 02:42 PM
|
#4
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,096
|
You can use a js plugin named something like js note filter or js midi filter before the vst instrument to limit the range of notes passed through to the vst.
|
|
|
12-25-2017, 02:49 PM
|
#5
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 1,429
|
A workaround would be to use midi note name files. Do you know what I mean? If not I can explain further.
|
|
|
12-25-2017, 02:52 PM
|
#6
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 289
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncleswede
You can use a js plugin named something like js note filter or js midi filter before the vst instrument to limit the range of notes passed through to the vst.
|
Hi uncleswede,
Thanks for the suggestion!
"...to limit the range of notes passed through to the vst."
However, does that also have a visual support? I need more of a visual indicator rather than just limiting the MIDI transmission.
I'll take a look at this plugin.
Thanks a lot!
|
|
|
12-25-2017, 03:02 PM
|
#7
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,096
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by SymboliC
Hi uncleswede,
Thanks for the suggestion!
"...to limit the range of notes passed through to the vst."
However, does that also have a visual support? I need more of a visual indicator rather than just limiting the MIDI transmission
|
Nope, it just restricts the notes passed through - no visual indication
|
|
|
12-25-2017, 03:05 PM
|
#8
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 289
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldreap
A workaround would be to use midi note name files. Do you know what I mean? If not I can explain further.
|
Is it like having piano roll keys being named after corresponding drums parts? Like "snare" "kick" "china" etc?... If so, I've used them before but don't have a clue how this might help?
|
|
|
12-25-2017, 03:10 PM
|
#9
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 289
|
OK, this is what I'm after.
I find it better to explain it by images so it would be much clearer what I'm trying to achieve.
I know that this has been asked before many times however I couldn't find any tools or complete answers that would fulfill this request.
Here is the regular piano roll view.
Here is what I'm trying to achieve.
|
|
|
12-25-2017, 03:17 PM
|
#10
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 1,429
|
"Is it like having piano roll keys being named after corresponding drums parts? Like "snare" "kick" "china" etc?... If so, I've used them before but don't have a clue how this might help?"
Yes, that's what I mean. For each instrument creat a simple note name text file with just entries indicating low note and high note. Like this for say double bass:
Low note 36
High note 79
Name the file E.G. 'Double Bass range'.
Load the file into the MIDI editor for that instrument.
Just a work around, I realize not completely what you want.
Last edited by Goldreap; 12-25-2017 at 03:22 PM.
|
|
|
12-25-2017, 04:03 PM
|
#11
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 289
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldreap
"Is it like having piano roll keys being named after corresponding drums parts? Like "snare" "kick" "china" etc?... If so, I've used them before but don't have a clue how this might help?"
Yes, that's what I mean. For each instrument creat a simple note name text file with just entries indicating low note and high note. Like this for say double bass:
Low note 36
High note 79
Name the file E.G. 'Double Bass range'.
Load the file into the MIDI editor for that instrument.
Just a work around, I realize not completely what you want.
|
Hmmm I see...
Yes, kind of a workaround... But better than not having anything at all.
Wish this would be a built-in feature or there were some plugins for this.
This might not be a priority for a basic 4 piece band music with 1 piano and 2 gtrs etc but when it comes to arranging for a huge orchestra I always find myself lost and start spreading all notes across all instruments & octaves which makes it sounding pretty much artificial and takes some time to clean it up without losing overall tonality or power of the section.
I know it is better to first study theory and then get going with practice while writing for an orchestral piece is a huge undertaking, yet, this would at least add up to learning curve and visually speaking, would be more convenient to work with.
Anyway...
I'll use the method you've mentioned for now on until someone in the future finds another method for this.
Thanks a lot for your help!
Cheers,
|
|
|
12-25-2017, 04:14 PM
|
#12
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 1,429
|
Cool, and actually the note name file should look more like this:
36 Low note
79 High note
OR
36 Low note 36
79 High note 79
where the first 36 points Reaper to it and the second 36 is part of your text on the key (if you want that). Silly me.
|
|
|
12-27-2017, 02:50 PM
|
#13
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Reaper HAS send control via midi !!!
Posts: 4,032
|
The question is if midi editor themes can be made in such a way the note background color gets dependent on those min/max pitch values. Never did any theming, maybe any theme experts can comment on this?
PHP Code:
if (pitch < min OR pitch > max)
bgcolor = darker
else
bgcolor = normal
The values for min and max will come from the above mentioned text files loaded into the midi editor.
|
|
|
12-27-2017, 04:03 PM
|
#14
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 163
|
As others have suggested, I use MIDINoteName files for this. I just name all the notes within the instrument's range and omit the others - any unnamed notes on the piano roll are outside the instruments range. If you select the MIDI editor option to Hide Unused and Unnamed Note Rows (under View>Show/Hide Note Rows) the unusable notes no longer appear on the piano roll. Add descriptive names for any keyswitches for added clarity and convenience. eg:
// Claire Solo MIDI Note Map
//
65 F4
64 E4
63 D#4
62 D4
61 C#4
60 C4
59 B3
58 A#3
57 A3
56 G#3
55 G3
54 F#3
53 F3
52 E3
51 D#3
50 D3
49 C#3
48 C3
47 B2
46 A#2
1 Release samples on/off
0 Legato on/off
|
|
|
12-27-2017, 04:30 PM
|
#15
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Reaper HAS send control via midi !!!
Posts: 4,032
|
Wonderful, this was exactly the missing information. Thanks a lot. Those should be first tutorials of Reaper videos. Starting from general concepts, going to details later.
|
|
|
01-06-2018, 06:20 AM
|
#16
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 289
|
TonE & gmgmgm,
Thank you both for your suggestions. I was aware that we had the option to hide unsued
gmgmgm,
I've tried your solution and it looks like, this is the best method for now on to avoid accidental entering of keyswitch notes or notes that are out of pitch/register of the instrument.
while,
TonE's suggestion is visually a better method.
This wouldn't be a major feature to request for most of people out there but wish we had a button (customized menu item) to make the out-of-range note rows piano colors diminished.
Can anyone with experience in modding themes recommend a way or a script to implement this as TonE has suggested where we can enter uppermost note and lowermost note into corresponding instrument track that diminishes the color of the out of range note rows?
For now on, I'll follow gmgmgm's advice.
Thanks!
|
|
|
01-06-2018, 12:29 PM
|
#17
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 720
|
Attached is a set of maps for GPO5 orchestral instruments.
The playable ranges should be pretty much the same for any sample lib, but the keyswitches will probably be different. So you should only have to modify the KS areas to fit other libs.
Incidentally, REAPER can store map files in tiny MIDI pre-roll items on each track of a project or template. The maps will "stick" by default when you add other items after the pre-roll setup snippets. Very useful.
You can record out-of-range notes, but the culprits will be easily to spot because they'll only have a number, not an assigned note name.
NB you have to use the "named notes" view to be able to show/hide notes.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f018e76732...0Maps.zip?dl=0
|
|
|
03-12-2018, 11:16 AM
|
#18
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Fjugesta, Sweden
Posts: 813
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Lyon
Attached is a set of maps for GPO5 orchestral instruments.
The playable ranges should be pretty much the same for any sample lib, but the keyswitches will probably be different. So you should only have to modify the KS areas to fit other libs.
Incidentally, REAPER can store map files in tiny MIDI pre-roll items on each track of a project or template. The maps will "stick" by default when you add other items after the pre-roll setup snippets. Very useful.
You can record out-of-range notes, but the culprits will be easily to spot because they'll only have a number, not an assigned note name.
NB you have to use the "named notes" view to be able to show/hide notes.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f018e76732...0Maps.zip?dl=0
|
Link brooken?
Is it possible to upload it to Reaper Resources?
|
|
|
03-13-2018, 06:02 AM
|
#20
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Fjugesta, Sweden
Posts: 813
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Lyon
|
Great, thanks!
|
|
|
03-13-2018, 07:30 PM
|
#21
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 720
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by tompad
Great, thanks!
|
I'm pretty sure they're accurate, but you might find the odd keyswitch error in there. I've since changed over to using Reaticulate - translating keyswitches into program/bank changes allows REAPER to chase messages.
(I've written Reaticulate reabank files for those libraries too.)
|
|
|
03-14-2018, 11:14 AM
|
#22
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Fjugesta, Sweden
Posts: 813
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Lyon
I've since changed over to using Reaticulate - translating keyswitches into program/bank changes allows REAPER to chase messages.
(I've written Reaticulate reabank files for those libraries too.)
|
I´ve started to look at Reaticulate - these would be nice to have also!
Can I find them in Resources?
|
|
|
03-14-2018, 10:07 PM
|
#23
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 720
|
This contains most single instrument patches from GPO5, CWC and KHCB2, plus a brass ensemble patch from KH Legacy. Reaticulate already contains factory banks for CSS (plus most Spitfire and VPO).
Just add this text file to your Reaticulate.reabank file (in REAPER/Data). I've used banks 16-20 - if you've already added other libraries to the file you might need to check you haven't already assigned those numbers.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/re7eyfo4jj...eatic.txt?dl=0
It all seems to be correctly assigned but let me know if you hit any bugs. Help me test it.
Known issue: REAPER only chases the last MIDI program/bank change. This means that with patches that have eg a legato on/off cc you won't always get the correct articulation change following that message.
Say your sampler is set to pizz from before. The MIDI track later contains a trem message then an auto legato on/off message. If you wind to a point after these messages, only the auto legato message will be chased, leaving you still on pizz.
Still tinkering with this. My current presumption is that in most cases when you turn auto legato on, you want sustain as well, and these sections are likely to be monophonic.
So for the GPO entries, when you trigger auto leg on via Reatic it will send first an auto leg on message then a sustain message as well. That way, when you chase you may not get the auto legato but you'll get the generic short-long (since that was the last sent message).
Something has to give here. The programmed auto legato would be nice to have, but the poly-mono switch isn't crucial since a poly patch sounds okay even for overlapping mono. The actual articulation change is more important. In addition, it's more likely that the sampler already has auto legato on than off, so you might get lucky anyway.
Of course, during full playback there's no problem.
(When I have the time, I'll get round to uploading this and some other stuff to Resources, but I'd like to soak test them first.)
|
|
|
03-15-2018, 04:11 AM
|
#24
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Fjugesta, Sweden
Posts: 813
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Lyon
This contains most single instrument patches from GPO5, CWC and KHCB2, plus a brass ensemble patch from KH Legacy. Reaticulate already contains factory banks for CSS (plus most Spitfire and VPO).
(When I have the time, I'll get round to uploading this and some other stuff to Resources, but I'd like to soak test them first.)
|
Great! Many thanks!
|
|
|
03-17-2018, 11:02 PM
|
#25
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Right Hear
Posts: 15,618
|
go here:
http://www.eareckon.com/en/products/freebies.html
scroll down to the second item
MIDI Polysher... totally free
use it on whatever tracks you want... try it as an Input FX rather than as a track FX
EDIT... hmmm Polysher may not work as input fx... sorry
but there is one called KX77FREE.... Let's see if I can find a link for it..
OK here we go:
http://www.dontcrack.com/freeware/do...x-Midi-Filter/
Last edited by hopi; 03-17-2018 at 11:20 PM.
|
|
|
12-16-2018, 05:13 PM
|
#26
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 660
|
FWIW, I just bit the bullet and named each note in the instruments range (A, A#, B), along with the keyswitches. Hide Unused and Unnamed Note Rows. It looks a lot cleaner now, though I can only seem to get it to show note names on the left, rather than the piano roll.
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:53 PM.
|