reasurround prerelease discussion

[Berg]

Could the Media Channel Mapper use presets ? It would be efficient to load different presets and be able to deal with the different channel orders standards. For exemple Film to ITU, DTS to ITU mixes or 4.0 to ITU, Film 5.0 to ITU ambiences/FX/Music/Stems etc...

[Berg]

Originally Posted by Nick Morris

Have you tried the ear production suite? I make my ADM files here without issue. Better than having to deal with the dolby renderer imo.

https://ear-production-suite.ebu.io/

Using this until Reaper has it all inside itself.

Yes, this ADM integration made by The BBC guys is amazing. We also have the MpegH Authoring tools that is another possibility to go to ADM or to MPEGH3D. All that tools are free, should Reaper propose another way to deliver ADM files ?

[AZpercussion]

Originally Posted by Berg

I find the Auro 3D speakers angles correct...

Angles only are correct maybe, but placement not. Equal distance rule isn't followed. Speakers should place on circle border and this border should exist, as in ITU schemes.

About monitoring angle values. Yes, it can be helpful sometimes to see single angle value (of selected speaker or source).

[Berg]

Originally Posted by AZpercussion

Angles only are correct maybe, but placement not. Equal distance rule isn't followed. Speakers should place on circle border and this border should exist, as in ITU schemes.

About monitoring angle values. Yes, it can be helpful sometimes to see single angle value (of selected speaker or source).

I would say yes, need this equal distance for the Studio Auro 3D arrangement but no for Auro 3D arrangement mixing for films (theaters), what do you think?

[AZpercussion]

Originally Posted by Berg

I would say yes, need this equal distance for the Studio Auro 3D arrangement but no for Auro 3D arrangement mixing for films (theaters), what do you think?

Current Auro scheme looks more like studio and home setup. like ITU

Overall, i guess, the same content plays in cinemas and in home. There is no matter how your panner looks. Just depends on your comfort.

I prefer use both schemes in one project.

[Berg]

By the way, if we want to create an equidistant speakers arrangement, like ITU ones, we don't have this circle option anymore, if I'm correct. This circle option disappeared but I guess it will come back ?

[jfbsauve]

As I am not used to pre-released build, I’m a bit confused...

I really need this Reasurround 2 for a project that will last for the next few month. So I found it on a pre-release 6.23. I’m just worry because it doesn’t seem to be there on the last pre-release 6.24 neither on the official release 6.23...

I just don’t want to get stuck with a pre-release version for two years...

Is there a way to get reasurround2 in addition to a official release?

Thank you so much! I’m pretty enthousiastic with this Reasurround 2!!!

[fakemaxwell]

I'm a bit late, but...



Want to echo the requests for Atmos support & 128 channels, while realizing it's not something that's going to happen overnight. My worry with using Reaper for post as Atmos gets bigger is the potential need to switch to Nuendo or Pro Tools. Obviously, I and many others have no desire to do such things, so any progress in that direction would be a mega thumbs up. Thanks devs, this panner is dope!

[Berg]

@Schwa, would it be possible to have the rotate in the automation parameters, so we can learn it for our control surfaces ?

[musicbynumbers]

I don't think reasurround2 will be fully out into the normal build for a few weeks still and it's not settle enough yet to use as automation and use might change.

I would use normal reasurround at first and then add in v2 in a few weeks.

You could risk it if you want though. v2 will probably be in the next pre release build in a few days max.

Originally Posted by jfbsauve

As I am not used to pre-released build, I’m a bit confused...

I really need this Reasurround 2 for a project that will last for the next few month. So I found it on a pre-release 6.23. I’m just worry because it doesn’t seem to be there on the last pre-release 6.24 neither on the official release 6.23...

I just don’t want to get stuck with a pre-release version for two years...

Is there a way to get reasurround2 in addition to a official release?

Thank you so much! I’m pretty enthousiastic with this Reasurround 2!!!

[plush2]

Originally Posted by jfbsauve

As I am not used to pre-released build, I’m a bit confused...

I really need this Reasurround 2 for a project that will last for the next few month. So I found it on a pre-release 6.23. I’m just worry because it doesn’t seem to be there on the last pre-release 6.24 neither on the official release 6.23...

I just don’t want to get stuck with a pre-release version for two years...

Is there a way to get reasurround2 in addition to a official release?

Thank you so much! I’m pretty enthousiastic with this Reasurround 2!!!

Just to add, the pre-release/dev versions are the ones with the latest and freshest developments. The rc (release candidate) ones remove some of those features that are still in flux and not ready to be released. This means the current build, being an rc does not have the reasurround2 code in it. You can go into the old/ folder to find the last dev build if you want to work/play with it.

My experience is the dev builds are generally very stable and breakage tends to happen in the context of what is being worked on and not the general functioning of the program.

[junh1024]

Originally Posted by schwa

Please post bug reports and feedback here.

Thanks schwa for all your work on reasurround2. Just catching up on a month's worth of hectic activity in reasurround2. Some things:

I'm using 6.23+dev0215 . Can you please turn the "Z shape" function into a dropdown menu with standard-sized text?

Maybe the other button-menu widgets should also be turned into standard dropdown menus.

Originally Posted by Ice

One thing I noticed right out of the gate is if I'm using reasurround2 to fold down something like 7.1 to stereo, there is no way to place CH3 (Center for example) to the center (or x=0).

Originally Posted by sonictim

Perhaps there could be a "center" button that would move the puck to the center. Or if center speaker isn't visible (stereo, or quad mode), there could be an alternate icon in its place one could double click and center the puck?

This highlights several issues.

For downmix to stereo, I usually use "JS: IX/Mixer_8xM-1xS" with Level 4 muted & Pan 3 centered. Make a default preset. It does the job. Use Pin IO routing for >8ch.

For UI changes, you could change the macro knob controls to horizontal sliders (like many other panners) with double-click reset to default XYZ positions & ctrl for fine-tuning in line with most other sliders in the RPR UI. If you must keep them as rotating knobs, please speed up the travel to 2x or 3x speed & again have ctrl to fine-tune. When you need more rotations for full L-to-R movement than the steering wheel of a car (probably), you have a problem.

It's also not possible to have exact speaker placement in "custom speakers" mode, especially as reasurround2 removed speaker XYZ control in automation. Can you also show the speakers in the channel editor button (but only if custom speakers is enabled), and show speaker XYZ as automation (like reasurround1) , so we can have exact XYZ editing of the speaker positions too?

Originally Posted by Berg

Yes, this ADM integration made by The BBC guys is amazing. We also have the MpegH Authoring tools that is another possibility to go to ADM or to MPEGH3D. All that tools are free, should Reaper propose another way to deliver ADM files ?

Yes. ADM was supposed to be a universal standard. However, the current situation is far from ideal. Different tools support different subsets, creating incompatibility. There are currently 2 "types":

- EBU EAR ADM using egocentric/polar/circular coordinates hereby abbreviated to EDM
- Dolby ADM using allocentric/cartesian/cubular coordinates hereby abbreviated to DDM

Currently, you can only make EDM in RPR using EAR. https://github.com/ebu/ear-productio...-still-missing .

The Dolby encoder only accepts DDM, which can only be made using tools like DaVinci Resolve 17 Studio. So it would be nice to make DDM in RPR (especially since reasurround seems to be using a cubular coordinate system) so that I can make (more) deliverables for Dolby Audio in RPR, instead of using other heavyweight tools.

Originally Posted by Berg

I would say yes, need this equal distance for the Studio Auro 3D arrangement but no for Auro 3D arrangement mixing for films (theaters), what do you think?

The official Auro panners are cubular. The current modes in reasurround2 for Auro are also cubular so reflect the official tools.

Also, Do you think it would be a good idea to remove Auro 11.1 & 13.1 modes since:
- Audio 11.1 & 13.1 are supported by the Auro encoder only, but Auro 9.1 (5.1.4) is supported by Dolby, DTSX, and Auro encoders.
- Auro 11.1+ is seldom used in practice, since most new content like films is being made in Atmos-like layouts & hence any Auro deliveries like films will be conversions to 9.1-ish
- Auro 11.1 systems should also be compatible with Auro 9.1


?

Originally Posted by svijayrathinam

For a 10 channel reverb.. I am adding 5 stereo reverbs and changing the plugin pin configuration. Loosing a lot of time on this . We definitely need an elegant solution for this .. pls

There's already a few elegant solutions for reverb. You can simply copypasta your reverb bus across projects. Or you can use FDNreverb https://plugins.iem.at/docs/pluginde...ons/#fdnreverb in the FREE IEM suite https://plugins.iem.at/ , up to 64ch of native multichannel reverb. But FDNreverb uses 2-3x CPU compared to multiple ReaVerbate. So, you decide the approach.

===

I might contact some users here directly about specific topics.

ED: ADM stuffs

[jm duchenne]

Originally Posted by junh1024

Yes. ADM was supposed to be a universal standard. However, the current situation is far from ideal. Different tools support different subsets, creating incompatibility. There are currently 2 "types":
- EBU EAR ADM using egocentric/polar/circular coordinates hereby abbreviated to EDM
- Dolby ADM using allocentric/cartesian/cubular coordinates hereby abbreviated to DDM
Currently, you can only make EDM in RPR using EAR. https://github.com/ebu/ear-productio...-still-missing .
The Dolby encoder only accepts DDM, which can only be made using tools like DaVinci Resolve 17 Studio. So it would be nice to make DDM in RPR so that I can make (more) deliverables for Dolby Audio in RPR, instead of using other heavyweight tools.

Thanks for these explainations!

I have tried to exchange ADM made in Reaper with the Ear suite and the MPEG-H plugin but it was not working.

Is there somewhere a document that lists the ADM compatibilities with Dolby's?
Is it possible to import in a Dolby compatible production the ADM produced by the MPEG-H plugin?

[junh1024]

Originally Posted by jm duchenne

Thanks for these explainations!

I have tried to exchange ADM made in Reaper with the Ear suite and the MPEG-H plugin but it was not working.

Is there somewhere a document that lists the ADM compatibilities with Dolby's?
Is it possible to import in a Dolby compatible production the ADM produced by the MPEG-H plugin?

Looks there might be many "types" of ADM . Main thing DDM vs the rest is the coordinate system. There might be some PDFs floating round about the ADM standard & DDM. Have you tried the reverse aka MPH ADM or DDM imported into EAR?

E: I'm going off other people's explanations of ADM (thank you to those), so my understanding of ADM isn't that great.

[AZpercussion]

Originally Posted by junh1024

It's also not possible to have exact speaker placement in "custom speakers" mode, especially as reasurround2 removed speaker XYZ control in automation. Can you also show the speakers in the channel editor button (but only if custom speakers is enabled), and show speaker XYZ as automation (like reasurround1) , so we can have exact XYZ editing of the speaker positions too?

Yes, this would be useful!

Originally Posted by junh1024

The official Auro panners are cubular. The current modes in reasurround2 for Auro are also cubular so reflect the official tools.

Cubular panners have speakers in corners. Current Auro scheme isn't the same.

[junh1024]

Originally Posted by AZpercussion

Yes, this would be useful!
Cubular panners have speakers in corners. Current Auro scheme isn't the same.

Ah yes, you're right. The speakers should be in the corners for the Auro layouts to match the 1st-party Auro panners. Also, are you using custom layouts with reasurround2? What layouts? I might use it with 7.1.6.

[musicbynumbers]

Just getting back into testing reasurround now that it's back on the map again but wanted to also say thanks for the massive push to getting Razor edits to where they are too. That's appreciated and amazing!

It would be great if "Respect XYZ flip" also worked for the scene/anchor midi/OSC control as well.

I think this has been mentioned so please forgive me if it's already on your list

[Berg]

+ JS : channel mapper downmixer
+ zero out unmapped output channels

Nice ! thanks
Maybe the possibility to enter the precise values and show them horizontally ?