Old 03-05-2021, 07:13 AM   #1
Ozman
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Default Gain Staging via Trim Knob

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Old 03-05-2021, 09:57 AM   #2
JonLinnarson
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Yes! I have wanted this feature since I started using Reaper. The pre-gain slider in Cubase for instance, makes gain staging so much easier.

Right now I have JS Volume Adjustment set as default for new tracks but it's so slow to open them one-by-one to set the gain. I tried having plug-in parameters showing in the mixer for awhile but the thing is that you can't have sends/receives showing at the same time as plug-in parameters. JS Volume Adjustment is the only plug-in I would need the plug-in parameters showing for so it's just not worth it to not see your sends/receives in place for parameters of just one plug-in I mainly just use at the start of a project.

There is another thread here from 2015 that also suggested something similar, input and output gain for the plug-in window, that's also a great idea!
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Old 03-16-2021, 03:04 AM   #3
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Yep. +1 from me on this
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Old 03-16-2021, 03:19 AM   #4
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Yeah, this would be useful. We also desperately need gain controls on each FX window
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Old 03-16-2021, 08:29 AM   #5
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I had requested this - nice to know others are onboard with this idea



https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=234158
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Old 03-16-2021, 08:39 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stroudy View Post
I had requested this - nice to know others are onboard with this idea



https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=234158

+1 for this!
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Old 06-09-2021, 03:17 PM   #7
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Default Trim Volume envelope as FX Parameter

I've been thinking about if there is somehow possible to write a simple script to get the "Trim volume" envelope showing as a FX Parameter. That way we wouldn't need JS Volume Adjustment or JS Volume Pan/Smoother to be in our FX chain. I can't write a single line of code myself sadly, so if anyone here feels like they are up for the challenge, or maybe knows someone who can help, it would be very much appreciated!

I still think OP's solution would be the perfect one, but until it becomes reality, this could be a alternative.
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Old 06-10-2021, 12:57 AM   #8
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+ 1 whatever place that knob is, as fair as it is easy to access and not a fxchain plugin.
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Old 06-10-2021, 03:17 AM   #9
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Trim volume for gain staging?
Trim volume is not "pre-gain". It's addition to regular volume. So why we need knob for it?
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Old 06-10-2021, 03:26 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonLinnarson View Post
you can't have sends/receives showing at the same time as plug-in parameters
Why? Usually this works fine.

btw
why just not to use this knob?
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Old 06-17-2021, 05:15 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daodan View Post
Trim volume for gain staging?
Trim volume is not "pre-gain". It's addition to regular volume. So why we need knob for it?
Ah, I thought it was pre-fx! The same idea but for the "Volume (Pre-FX)" envelope would be better then.

The reason I would like a trim knob is because when I'm mixing, which is 90% of what I use Reaper for, I have the MCP in pretty much full screen mode. Going through a whole project with 50-100 tracks and setting the item volumes in the TCP is quite slow and going through every track, showing the Volume (Pre-FX) envelope, setting the gain and the hiding it again would be even slower. I don't want to start comparing DAWs, I still think Reaper is superior to the rest, but as a former Cubase user, I really miss the trim knob (called Pre-gain in Cubase) that every track in the mixer has. It's such a easy way to gain stage when you can just set a part of the track on repeat, maximize the mixer window and gain stage every track while simultaneously keeping an eye on it's meter.

Last edited by JonLinnarson; 06-19-2021 at 06:39 AM.
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Old 06-17-2021, 05:53 AM   #12
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The thing is that even in TCP you need to open the envelope to have access and then close to free up the space, instead there should be an easy access to it.
Actually i would not mind if per example: cmd + dragging volume knob would be changing the pre Fx volume.
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Old 06-17-2021, 06:07 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daodan View Post
Why? Usually this works fine.

btw
why just not to use this knob?
I was thinking something like this image below, having another small knob for pre-FX volume alongside the pan knob. It doesn't have to be exactly like this but as long as you have access to it directly from the MCP, preferably without having to select it to "show" for every individual track one-by-one at the start of every project.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg MCP Trim-knob1 (2).jpg (38.6 KB, 102 views)

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Old 04-09-2022, 12:03 PM   #14
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The Volume (pre-FX) is quite the same by functionality as a Trim\Gain input. Or at least it should be: for live input audio as well.

It just needs a place on the TCP\MCP panels.
Automating it is fine, as most parameters can be automated.

It should not take much. The "tech" is available, so...

There is also Trim Volume, which is a bit redundant, since we can automate the track fader.
Or maybe I am missing something here.
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Old 04-14-2022, 06:26 PM   #15
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I switched from Cubase nearly 15 years ago and still miss this.
Sure, there are 10 workarounds to do the same thing but having it built in to the mixer is great for proper gain-staging.

And just like Cubase, if you don't need it, just hide it.
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Old 04-15-2022, 02:51 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PitchSlap View Post
I switched from Cubase nearly 15 years ago and still miss this.
Sure, there are 10 workarounds to do the same thing but having it built in to the mixer is great for proper gain-staging.

And just like Cubase, if you don't need it, just hide it.
Amen to that!

But...
Considering the countless discussions we have had up to this point with regards to "Gain staging" and "Metering Peaks\RMS\LU" with some of the core bodies of Cockos and their audio-engineering advisers (also forum members here), I am afraid non of this is going to see the light of day.

It has not for the past 10+ years.

Yes, there are workarounds, automation tracks, scripts, actions, whatnot... but those only contribute to Reaper's 'steep learning curve'.

Last edited by Pashkuli; 04-15-2022 at 04:55 AM.
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Old 04-15-2022, 12:29 PM   #17
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^^ reaper is huge software with incredible unique features, but misses a lot of the little things like this one. This little things make a huge difference.
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Old 04-16-2022, 02:21 AM   #18
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The ironic thing is the feature is already there (see the current first post).

A Trim knob in the old-school sense is the Volume (pre-FX) or the Trim Volume.

It is a bit confusing though, because actually we've got InputFX, which should affect only the incoming live audio (recording) and TrackFX, which should affect both: incoming live audio OR\AND the already existing recording as an audio clip in the same track. Of course, those routings also depend on current settings.

Volume (pre-FX) probably means the Volume before the TrackFX, but might also include the affected signal by the InputFX (have to test it, but most likely it is as such).
Most likely also means Volume (post-InputFX)... needs testing.

Trim Volume*** though should be the same as Volume (pre-InputFX), a.k.a. the "Gain Staging" knob\slider:
· this means Trim for the raw input as is (mic\pickup\ext. devices) before any InputFX and TrackFX have their effect on the signal!
· means also an overall Trim after the per audio event Trim knob (the ones that are on top left of each audio event already recorded) have their effect on the levels of each respective audio event\xlip\object

***Those details are very important.***

Volume (pre-FX): please, read page 342 of Reaper's manual
Trim Volume: please, read page 347

quite confusing

It needs to function the way I explained it though, as in this way it will make much more sense.

Last edited by Pashkuli; 04-16-2022 at 02:27 AM.
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Old 04-16-2022, 01:34 PM   #19
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I've been using the JS Volume Adjustment but it's a bit clunky when used live.

Having a visual cue at a glance is helpful because I will forget to zero it out when connecting a new AoIP source.
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