Control Surface Integration (CSI) Technical Feature Discussion

[jacksoonbrowne]

Originally Posted by jacksoonbrowne

As the X32 has 32 channel strips, I have found it time consuming to an create/edit a corresponding ost file, so ...

I am going to code up an OST file generator (OSC for now, it might work for midi too?) that will take a simple template text file and create an ".ost"file.

This will greatly alleviate the task of creating an ".ost" file when multiple instances of the same widget type are required.

My thoughts are the template file might look like this:

Widget MASTER  NumInstances=1 CONTROL="/main/st/mix/fader" FB="FB_Processor    /main/st/mix/fader"
Widget FADER_| NumInstances=2 CONTROL="/ch/0|/mix/fader"   FB="FB_Processor    /ch/0|/mix/fader"
Widget MUTE_|  NumInstances=2 CONTROL="/ch/0|/mix/mute"    FB="FB_IntProcessor /ch/0|/mix/mute"

"NumInstances" specifies how many ost entries are required for this widget.
The value "|" would be replaced by the instance number.

The above example would generate an ost file containing:

Widget MASTER_FADER
    Control             /main/st/mix/fader
    FB_Processor        /main/st/mix/fader
WidgetEnd

Widget FADER_1
	Control         /ch/01/mix/fader
	FB_Processor	/ch/01/mix/fader
WidgetEnd

Widget FADER_2
	Control         /ch/02/mix/fader
	FB_Processor	/ch/02/mix/fader
WidgetEnd


Widget MUTE_1
	Control         /ch/01/mix/on
	FB_IntProcessor	/ch/01/mix/on
WidgetEnd

Widget MUTE_2
	Control         /ch/02/mix/on
	FB_IntProcessor	/ch/02/mix/on
WidgetEnd

Before I begin this project, I ask for suggestions/comments please

Cheers,
Roy Wallingford (AKA JacksoonBrowne)

In reviewing my post, I think the "|" will may fail with track numbers > 9. As "0|" on instance 10 would result in "010".

Maybe a "c" like printf() formatting string syntax would work better, something like "|%d" and "|%02d!"

Like "/ch/|%d/mix/fader" and "/ch/|%02d/mix/fader" which for channel 1 would would yield:
"/ch/|%d/mix/fader" = "/ch/0/mix/fader"
"/ch/|%02d/mix/fader" = "/ch/01/mix/fader"

Like "/ch/|%d/mix/fader" and "/ch/|%02d/mix/fader" which for channel 10 would would yield:
"/ch/|%d/mix/fader" = "/ch/10/mix/fader"
"/ch/|%02d/mix/fader" = "/ch/10/mix/fader"
"/ch/|%03d/mix/fader" = "/ch/010/mix/fader"
etc



thoughts anyone?

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by jacksoonbrowne

Hi Geoff,
Thanks so much for the info to add actions.

"TrackUniqueSelectWithChannelNumber"

But this snippet of code you suggested won't compile

virtual void RequestUpdate(ActionContext* context) override
{
    if(context->GetTrack())
        context->UpdateWidgetValue TrackUniqueSelectWithChannelNumber,GetCurrentNormalizedValue(context));
    else
        context->ClearWidget();
}

First, looks like a missing open bracket for "context->UpdateWidgetValue" function call.
I inserted the bracket but then compile fails as the parameter "TrackUniqueSelectWithChannelNumber" is the class itself.

What should it be like?
Maybe I misread something

Looks like you introduced a copy/paste error or something, please re-read the original post, it looks right to me, TrackUniqueSelectWithChannelNumber is nowhere in sight in that method

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Puck

Very much dig the nerdy conversation going on Thanks for having the discourse here

Also while shooting some test footage for the video I ran into what I think is a bug:

TrackSendPrePost doesn't actually change the value in Reaper, it does cycle the display though. Fairly sure I have all of my syntax and definitions right here.

Using CSI v2.0 (although it is the build before last)

There is a known bug in Reaper, the Sends window does not automatically update, you have to close and reopen it to see the changes, is that what you are seeing or is it something else ?

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MT4U

Hello.

CSI FX Mapper

I just uploaded the application I'd mentioned before to the stash.

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/44918/csi_fx_beta.zip

Inside the ZIP you'll find the executable, a brief manual in PDF, and a test project to load (ReaEQ) and generate a Zone file for testing.

Still testing it, but using it too without much trouble so far. If anyone wants to try it, feel free to make any comments, suggestions, etc...

Hope you find it useful.

Thanks man, great stuff !

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by jacksoonbrowne

As the X32 has 32 channel strips, I have found it time consuming to an create/edit a corresponding ost file, so ...

I am going to code up an OST file generator (OSC for now, it might work for midi too?) that will take a simple template text file and create an ".ost"file.

This will greatly alleviate the task of creating an ".ost" file when multiple instances of the same widget type are required.

My thoughts are the template file might look like this:

Widget MASTER  NumInstances=1 CONTROL="/main/st/mix/fader" FB="FB_Processor    /main/st/mix/fader"
Widget FADER_| NumInstances=2 CONTROL="/ch/0|/mix/fader"   FB="FB_Processor    /ch/0|/mix/fader"
Widget MUTE_|  NumInstances=2 CONTROL="/ch/0|/mix/mute"    FB="FB_IntProcessor /ch/0|/mix/mute"

"NumInstances" specifies how many ost entries are required for this widget.
The value "|" would be replaced by the instance number.

The above example would generate an ost file containing:

Widget MASTER_FADER
    Control             /main/st/mix/fader
    FB_Processor        /main/st/mix/fader
WidgetEnd

Widget FADER_1
	Control         /ch/01/mix/fader
	FB_Processor	/ch/01/mix/fader
WidgetEnd

Widget FADER_2
	Control         /ch/02/mix/fader
	FB_Processor	/ch/02/mix/fader
WidgetEnd


Widget MUTE_1
	Control         /ch/01/mix/on
	FB_IntProcessor	/ch/01/mix/on
WidgetEnd

Widget MUTE_2
	Control         /ch/02/mix/on
	FB_IntProcessor	/ch/02/mix/on
WidgetEnd

Before I begin this project, I ask for suggestions/comments please

Cheers,
Roy Wallingford (AKA JacksoonBrowne)

I would suggest eliminating the underscore and all caps, using MasterFader, Fader1, Fader2, Mute1, etc., to be more consistent with existing .mst/.ost files.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Puck

TrackSendPrePost doesn't actually change the value in Reaper, it does cycle the display though. Fairly sure I have all of my syntax and definitions right here.

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...ostcount=17976

[Puck]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...ostcount=17976

Oh…

Someone posted this a few days ago AND there was discourse about it eh?

Whoops!

As you were, everyone

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Puck

Oh…

Someone posted this a few days ago AND there was discourse about it eh?

Whoops!

As you were, everyone

I'll be sure to make note of that when I create a proper Send Actions page for the wiki. It's definitely tripped me up in the past. I really wish Reaper showed Pre/Post state in the MCP versus having to open the dialog to see that then not have it get updated when a controller changes the state. But it's a nitpick in the grand scheme of things.

[norbury brook]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

I'll be sure to make note of that when I create a proper Send Actions page for the wiki. It's definitely tripped me up in the past. I really wish Reaper showed Pre/Post state in the MCP versus having to open the dialog to see that then not have it get updated when a controller changes the state. But it's a nitpick in the grand scheme of things.

I've been asking for this for a long time. Cubase does it really well with a colour change on the send level to display of it's re or post fader, you can set them to be whatever you want, by default they're blue for post fader and orange fro pre fader. very easy to see when you're mixing.


M

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by norbury brook

I've been asking for this for a long time. Cubase does it really well with a colour change on the send level to display of it's re or post fader, you can set them to be whatever you want, by default they're blue for post fader and orange fro pre fader. very easy to see when you're mixing.
M

That’s a really good idea!

[norbury brook]

I'm not sure if this is the correct thread but:

Would it be possible to make the jog/scrub wheel on the x touch(one) act like the AI knob on the cubase CC121 controler or the same thing on the SSL controler?

SSL say:

" FOCUS Mode - This mode turns the operation of the large encoder into a mouse wheel scroll emulation and is great for controlling plug-ins. Simply hover your computer mouse over the desired control and turn the encoder. The sensitivity of this mode will be determined by your computer’s mouse scroll sensitivity settings. "


This would be a killer addition if it could be made to work. You could use the scrub button next to the wheel to activate 'Ai' mode




M

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Puck

Oh…

Someone posted this a few days ago AND there was discourse about it eh?

Whoops!

As you were, everyone

It wasn't much of a discourse

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by norbury brook

I'm not sure if this is the correct thread but:

Would it be possible to make the jog/scrub wheel on the x touch(one) act like the AI knob on the cubase CC121 controler or the same thing on the SSL controler?

SSL say:

" FOCUS Mode - This mode turns the operation of the large encoder into a mouse wheel scroll emulation and is great for controlling plug-ins. Simply hover your computer mouse over the desired control and turn the encoder. The sensitivity of this mode will be determined by your computer’s mouse scroll sensitivity settings. "


This would be a killer addition if it could be made to work. You could use the scrub button next to the wheel to activate 'Ai' mode

I don't think you can do that in CSI today (I mean you could assign the FocusedFXParam to jogwheel but I still don't think the behavior would work as expected) but that's where I really like just assigning the FocusedFXParam to a Fader. It's much easier to manipulate a control on a fader IMO and the responsiveness is great.

[norbury brook]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

I don't think you can do that in CSI today (I mean you could assign the FocusedFXParam to jogwheel but I still don't think the behavior would work as expected) but that's where I really like just assigning the FocusedFXParam to a Fader. It's much easier to manipulate a control on a fader IMO and the responsiveness is great.

having used the CC121 for many years the Ai is brilliant as you only have to put your mouse over the parameter and you have control, you can actually lock it to a control if yo wish and it will always control it regardless but I used to love the Ai element as I used to have a TC 'Knob' which did the same thing but having it integrated meant I got rid of the TC.

No worries, it was just a thought I had while on my Bike today I'm going to downgrade my firmware now.... wish me luck..


m

[Navelpluisje]

Originally Posted by norbury brook

having used the CC121 for many years the Ai is brilliant as you only have to put your mouse over the parameter and you have control, you can actually lock it to a control if yo wish and it will always control it regardless but I used to love the Ai element as I used to have a TC 'Knob' which did the same thing but having it integrated meant I got rid of the TC.

No worries, it was just a thought I had while on my Bike today I'm going to downgrade my firmware now.... wish me luck..


m

Well, I'm actually after the same thing. The FaderPort controllers have a link button which do the same in Studio One. So when 'activated' you can control the plugin param under the mouse cursor.

We could go for a feature request in REAPER to make the hovered plugin param accessible. We only need a method (getFxParamUnderMouseCursor) which returns the track number, plugin id and param ID.

In CSI we need an action for the linked control. Once linking is activated, the control can then change the param value.

[MT4U]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Thanks man, great stuff !

You are most welcome. My goal is to save a "Preset Project" an reuse it with different plug-ins.

I've found it really easy (thanks to CSI) to map let's say, all my synths, with the OSC1 Octave on Encoder1, Semitone on Encoder 2, Wave Shape on Encoder 3, etc. without modifiers, a Shift+ for OSC2, Control+ for OSC3, Shift+Control+ for OSC Mix and so on.

This way, whenever I want to use a new synth, I map the "equivalent" parameters to the same widgets and it's just "easier" to get used to it.

I save a "Synth" preset and then load the FX parameters for the new synth into it and map them in the same way.

A similar approach with EQ, compressors, etc. and my workflow and learning curves get drastically improved.

This is the way that CSI has changed my life forever. Thanks!!!

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by MT4U

You are most welcome. My goal is to save a "Preset Project" an reuse it with different plug-ins.

I've found it really easy (thanks to CSI) to map let's say, all my synths, with the OSC1 Octave on Encoder1, Semitone on Encoder 2, Wave Shape on Encoder 3, etc. without modifiers, a Shift+ for OSC2, Control+ for OSC3, Shift+Control+ for OSC Mix and so on.

This way, whenever I want to use a new synth, I map the "equivalent" parameters to the same widgets and it's just "easier" to get used to it.

I save a "Synth" preset and then load the FX parameters for the new synth into it and map them in the same way.

A similar approach with EQ, compressors, etc. and my workflow and learning curves get drastically improved.

This is the way that CSI has changed my life forever. Thanks!!!

Muscle memory rules!

[mrdevis]

Hi
On the risc of barking up the wrong tree...
I installed an Artist Control on an -admittedly not the newest- MP4,1 with High Sierra.
There is probably no way to get access to CSIv2.0 on that machine? after installing it, and not getting Reaper(6.64) reading it, I had this <doh> experience after reading CSI is 10.15+, so I switched to Eucon_Exp.

Is there any alternative with greater support. Ie last version of CSI for 10.13 or similar?

Cheers, Jeroen

[xeonblack]

Hello, found another problem with X-Touch Universal and CSI 2.0

The moment I select multiple tracks, or the master fader, they "twitch", although there is no apparent reason for this. How can this issue be resolved?

I have attached a video that shows in detail what is happening.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fdg...ew?usp=sharing

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by xeonblack

Hello, found another problem with X-Touch Universal and CSI 2.0

The moment I select multiple tracks, or the master fader, they "twitch", although there is no apparent reason for this. How can this issue be resolved?

I have attached a video that shows in detail what is happening.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fdg...ew?usp=sharing

Hopefully will be resolved in a future update.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by MeWest

Very grateful! It's not the first time you've helped out.

Try using this collection of files. It includes a new .mst that uses MC mode, so make sure you have that selected on the X-Touch Mini. You should set your number of channels to six in the new CSI prefs.

I'm sure you'll have questions/issues, but get these files working and then we'll be on the same page and can move forward from there

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by xeonblack

Hello, found another problem with X-Touch Universal and CSI 2.0

The moment I select multiple tracks, or the master fader, they "twitch", although there is no apparent reason for this. How can this issue be resolved?

I have attached a video that shows in detail what is happening.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fdg...ew?usp=sharing

There is no apparent reason, but there is a reason

There are many ways CSI receives a Track Selected message, including when the TrackFXList changes, when a Track is removed, etc.

CSI may even receive many sequential Track Selected messages when you select more than one Track.

CSI also has to handle deselecting a Track.

Because of this complexity what you are actually seeing is the Tracks momentarily deselecting, then reselecting, which causes the minor twitch.

Trying to solve this at the root level is way more complex than it's worth, when compared to the bugs the solution may potentially generate.

But, as MixMonkey says, there may be a solution down the road, which will also handle Page switch twitches, etc.

Not promising anything though, do you really find this more than a minor issue ?

[MT4U]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

There is no apparent reason, but there is a reason

There are many ways CSI receives a Track Selected message, including when the TrackFXList changes, when a Track is removed, etc.

CSI may even receive many sequential Track Selected messages when you select more than one Track.

CSI also has to handle deselecting a Track.

Because of this complexity what you are actually seeing is the Tracks momentarily deselecting, then reselecting, which causes the minor twitch.

Trying to solve this at the root level is way more complex than it's worth, when compared to the bugs the solution may potentially generate.

But, as MixMonkey says, there may be a solution down the road, which will also handle Page switch twitches, etc.

Not promising anything though, do you really find this more than a minor issue ?

What if he added a button to "Unmap" the faders while making the multi selection and then map them back again?

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MT4U

What if he added a button to "Unmap" the faders while making the multi selection and then map them back again?

Unmapping will send them to zero.

In fact that is exactly what is happening now, except it happens so fast that they never have a chance to get there

[Funkybot]

Ok, new Wiki page up for Navigation Actions:

https://github.com/GeoffAWaddington/...gation-Actions

As always, please review and provide feedback!

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Ok, new Wiki page up for Navigation Actions:

https://github.com/GeoffAWaddington/...gation-Actions

As always, please review and provide feedback!

Excellent, as usual !!

Couple of points:

1) Might want to change the GoTrackSend flavours from this:

"Use the GoTrackSend action to activate a TrackSend zone"

to something like (or better wording, but you get the idea):

"Use the GoTrackSend action to activate a Zone which has the name "TrackSend" "

to reinforce the idea of hardwired names.




2) Might want to point out that the 2 "Buttons" Zones are on different Pages -- aka in different Zone folders:

in the folder referenced by the "Home" Page:

Zone "Buttons"
        Channel         GoPage "Mix"  // Activates the Mix page
ZoneEnd

in the folder referenced by the "Mix" Page:

Zone "Buttons"
        Channel         GoPage "Home"  // Activates the Home page
ZoneEnd

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Because of this complexity what you are actually seeing is the Tracks momentarily deselecting, then reselecting, which causes the minor twitch.

Just shootin' the breeze here, but when the Tracks deselect, are they heading to zero before being caught by the reselection that re-establishes their correct value?

If so, why not use their last known value instead of zero during the process? That way, there'd be no twitch.

Ok, I'll sit back down now and stop talkin' out my a**

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by mrdevis

Hi
On the risc of barking up the wrong tree...
I installed an Artist Control on an -admittedly not the newest- MP4,1 with High Sierra.
There is probably no way to get access to CSIv2.0 on that machine? after installing it, and not getting Reaper(6.64) reading it, I had this <doh> experience after reading CSI is 10.15+, so I switched to Eucon_Exp.

Is there any alternative with greater support. Ie last version of CSI for 10.13 or similar?

Cheers, Jeroen

No, as a matter of fact, I'm working on improving EuCon support right now and that too will require Catalina or later.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Just shootin' the breeze here, but when the Tracks deselect, are they heading to zero before being caught by the reselection that re-establishes their correct value?

If so, why not use their last known value instead of zero during the process? That way, there'd be no twitch.

Ok, I'll sit back down now and stop talkin' out my a**

It's a two step process.

When a Track is removed, deselected under certain conditions, various other scenarios, we WANT to zero the Fader, otherwise you guys would, and do, complain, rightly so , about the Faders "hanging about" rather than properly zeroing

Then the selection process occurs putting everything right once more.

Not saying I won't look into it -- did very briefly this afternoon -- just saying it's not a trivial fix by any stretch of the imagination, there are so many moving parts

Lots of opportunities for creating side effect bugs.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

When a Track is removed, deselected under certain conditions, various other scenarios, we WANT to zero the Fader, otherwise you guys would, and do, complain, rightly so , about the Faders "hanging about" rather than properly zeroing

Again i'm just speculating wildly here, but it seems to me that you would need to delay the output of the MIDI data to the faders (and this only really concerns the faders) until you've been able to compare the 'new' fader value with the 'old' fader value.

If the 'new' (incoming) fader value is different to the 'old' (fader value before de-selection, removal etc) you output the 'new' value. If it is the same, you output nothing and the faders don't move.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Again i'm just speculating wildly here, but it seems to me that you would need to delay the output of the MIDI data to the faders (and this only really concerns the faders) until you've been able to compare the 'new' fader value with the 'old' fader value.

If the 'new' (incoming) fader value is different to the 'old' (fader value before de-selection, removal etc) you output the 'new' value. If it is the same, you output nothing and the faders don't move.

So, when do you know when to delay and when to be responsive ?

You would have to have a very context sensitive calculation.

If you fail in that task you end up with an overall sluggish interface

[Geoff Waddington]

New build is up.

CSI Exp.zip

Ok folks you asked for it

A trial balloon to help the twitchy Track selection behaviour.

If you have Single select mode active -- often mapped as Control+Select|, you still get twitches when you deselect a Track.

But it helps with the Shift+Select| and Control+Select| scenarios.

Lord knows what else it broke

Please check all the Track selection, Track removal, Selecting a new Track with "SelectedTrackFX" Zone active, deleting FX on a selected Track, and a million other scenarios I have forgotten about

Also be aware this has the potential to cause major crashes.

Once again, you asked for it...

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

So, when do you know when to delay and when to be responsive ?

You'd delay in every circumstance where CSI currently does the fader twitch. As a worst case scenario proof of concept, why not try it when GoHome is used?

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Once again, you asked for it...

...and CSIExp.zip is a thing again

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Lord knows what else it broke

Nothing's blown up so far I'll keep you posted Definitely no twitch when shift-selecting and control-selecting Tracks.

EDIT: Interesting thing about control-deselection, the faders only twitch on the MCU, not the XTs. Doesn't matter whether I'm de-selecting on the MCU or any of the XTs, only the MCU faders twitch. What's preventing the XT faders from twitching and can it be replicated for the MCU?

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

You'd delay in every circumstance where CSI currently does the fader twitch. As a worst case scenario proof of concept, why not try it when GoHome is used?

Well, first you'd have to find all the Fader twitch code locations, good luck with that

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

...and CSIExp.zip is a thing again

Yup

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Nothing's blown up so far I'll keep you posted Definitely no twitch when shift-selecting and control-selecting Tracks.

Good, but please do try and exercise everything you can think of.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Well, first you'd have to find all the Fader twitch code locations, good luck with that

Okay, so being selective with how the delay is applied is a non-starter. Apply it to everything and see how sluggish it makes things, because the twitch itself is a form of sluggish behaviour...

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Good, but please do try and exercise everything you can think of.

Will do