Control Surface Integration (CSI) Technical Feature Discussion

[MT4U]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Still no worky here.

If I rename it .rar it opens. So I think the last upload didn't take. Or it's not a proper zip file.

Thank you FB! This WinRar thing just opens the files without letting you know if the compression algorithm matches the file extension.

Just uploaded a proper ZIP after heavily compressing the PDF attached to fit the stash limit of 2MB.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by MT4U

Thank you FB! This WinRar thing just opens the files without letting you know if the compression algorithm matches the file extension.

Just uploaded a proper ZIP after heavily compressing the PDF attached to fit the stash limit of 2MB.

Download works now!

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

I'm afraid this issue needs addressing as a matter of some urgency, as it has the capability to reset a parameter value to 0 (or whatever that represents) without the control being pressed.

I think I just found it, stay tuned.

[jakeman19]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

New build is up.

CSI Support Files.zip

CSI Exp.zip

Converted to new step values approach.

You will need the support files which contain FXParamStepValuesCache.txt

That file contains the step sizes for over 1000 plugins and takes under a second to load at startup.

No more scanning, etc.

Much more direct, it is a file that we will update as new plugins that have steps become available.

As always, custom definitions in Zones override.

Also [ 0.0 ] should work again.

Works like a charm now Geoff. Thanks for the update on this!!!

Jd

[Geoff Waddington]

New build is up.

CSI Exp.zip

Possible fix for set stepped value.

You should once again be able to use [ 0.0 ].

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

New build is up.

CSI Exp.zip

Possible fix for set stepped value.

You should once again be able to use [ 0.0 ].

That works again.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

New build is up.

CSI Exp.zip

Possible fix for set stepped value.

You should once again be able to use [ 0.0 ].

Working normally here again Nice one Geoff!

[MT4U]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

New build is up.

CSI Exp.zip

Possible fix for set stepped value.

You should once again be able to use [ 0.0 ].

Thanks, Geoff.

Production ready here!

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Working normally here again Nice one Geoff!

Thanks for the hint "it has the capability to reset a parameter value to 0 (or whatever that represents) without the control being pressed", that led me to the bug.

What that really meant was that it was happening upon release.

[Funkybot]

Nice job on the fix Geoff! And MixMonkey on the assist!

One for the CSI v3 feature request list that occurred to me today while updating the old Reapinger BCF-2000 CSI files in another thread...

SomeButton    SelectTracksNamed "Drums"
SomeButton    SelectTracksNamed "Kick*"
SomeButton    SelectTracksNamed "Snare*"
SomeButton    SelectTracksNamed "Tom*"

The intent would be that CSI would locate any tracks in Reaper with the names in the quotation marks and select them. The idea being that people could combine those with other actions to create macro actions to only show the drums, or only show vocal tracks, etc. without having to use a Folder workflow which can be detrimental for CPU use. Why not just use existing scripts that do that? Not portable from a CSI perspective. The * would be a wildcard to pick up Kick In and Kick Out tracks.

Obviously there are other priorities and this isn't super important by any means but wanted to suggest it before I forgot!

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Nice job on the fix Geoff! And MixMonkey on the assist!

One for the CSI v3 feature request list that occurred to me today while updating the old Reapinger BCF-2000 CSI files in another thread...

SomeButton    SelectTracksNamed "Drums"
SomeButton    SelectTracksNamed "Kick*"
SomeButton    SelectTracksNamed "Snare*"
SomeButton    SelectTracksNamed "Tom*"

The intent would be that CSI would locate any tracks in Reaper with the names in the quotation marks and select them. The idea being that people could combine those with other actions to create macro actions to only show the drums, or only show vocal tracks, etc. without having to use a Folder workflow which can be detrimental for CPU use. Why not just use existing scripts that do that? Not portable from a CSI perspective. The * would be a wildcard to pick up Kick In and Kick Out tracks.

Obviously there are other priorities and this isn't super important by any means but wanted to suggest it before I forgot!

How is Folder workflow detrimental for CPU use ?

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

How is Folder workflow detrimental for CPU use ?

My understanding of the way most DAWs, including Reaper is this: let's say you've got 11 drum tracks, all audio, most with some processing (Gate, EQ, Compressor). If they're 11 standalone tracks, the DAW can allocate each track to different threads allowing for parallel processing. This allows for greater efficiency.

However, if they're all being bussed to a folder, you're imposing a bottleneck and things need to happen in serial before hitting said folder. So you lose CPU efficiency as a result.

Reaper is better about this than other DAWs I've used, but I think it's just a constraint of "A processing needs to take place before B processing".

Anyone can jump in and correct me if I'm wrong, but that's always been my understanding of how this all works.

[MT4U]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Nice job on the fix Geoff! And MixMonkey on the assist!

One for the CSI v3 feature request list that occurred to me today while updating the old Reapinger BCF-2000 CSI files in another thread...

SomeButton    SelectTracksNamed "Drums"
SomeButton    SelectTracksNamed "Kick*"
SomeButton    SelectTracksNamed "Snare*"
SomeButton    SelectTracksNamed "Tom*"

The intent would be that CSI would locate any tracks in Reaper with the names in the quotation marks and select them. The idea being that people could combine those with other actions to create macro actions to only show the drums, or only show vocal tracks, etc. without having to use a Folder workflow which can be detrimental for CPU use. Why not just use existing scripts that do that? Not portable from a CSI perspective. The * would be a wildcard to pick up Kick In and Kick Out tracks.

Obviously there are other priorities and this isn't super important by any means but wanted to suggest it before I forgot!

I've been quite successful with a Cycle Action using "Lokasenna_Select tracks by name". Worth a try.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

My understanding of the way most DAWs, including Reaper is this: let's say you've got 11 drum tracks, all audio, most with some processing (Gate, EQ, Compressor). If they're 11 standalone tracks, the DAW can allocate each track to different threads allowing for parallel processing. This allows for greater efficiency.

However, if they're all being bussed to a folder, you're imposing a bottleneck and things need to happen in serial before hitting said folder. So you lose CPU efficiency as a result.

Reaper is better about this than other DAWs I've used, but I think it's just a constraint of "A processing needs to take place before B processing".

Anyone can jump in and correct me if I'm wrong, but that's always been my understanding of how this all works.

Ah, makes sense.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

The intent would be that CSI would locate any tracks in Reaper with the names in the quotation marks and select them. The idea being that people could combine those with other actions to create macro actions to only show the drums, or only show vocal tracks, etc. without having to use a Folder workflow which can be detrimental for CPU use. Why not just use existing scripts that do that? Not portable from a CSI perspective. The * would be a wildcard to pick up Kick In and Kick Out tracks.

I feel this is more script territory than CSI's.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Samuel_Meyer

I think a nice adition for the next major update would be to include Groupe Navigation. So all three navigation options within reaper will be covered.
VCA, Folder and Groups.

I thought this was an interesting suggestion. Obviously, VCA is already a type of group, but I think what he's suggesting is something along the lines of GoGroup and seeing only the Group leaders appear on the surface(s).

That would be Group leaders of any type, except maybe VCA (which are already covered). Navigation to followers of those leaders proceeds in the same way as for Folders and VCA.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

I feel this is more script territory than CSI's.

I'd generally agree. My thinking is that 1) scripts are not portable from a CSI perspective, and 2) this doesn't seem like it would be hard to implement from a CSI perspective (CSI already has all the data and relevant APIs), and 3) knowing the user-base here, there would be use-cases for this that I haven't even thought of yet. This being built-in could open a lot of doors. But if it never happens, that's ok too.

[Freex]

I've been using cycle to run these commands (custom menu) they work.

As seen in attached pic

[Samuel_Meyer]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

I thought this was an interesting suggestion. Obviously, VCA is already a type of group, but I think what he's suggesting is something along the lines of GoGroup and seeing only the Group leaders appear on the surface(s).

That would be Group leaders of any type, except maybe VCA (which are already covered). Navigation to followers of those leaders proceeds in the same way as for Folders and VCA.

At the moment I do it with Reaper Actions: Some Button - different reaper actions (show only Group X)
This works fine with only a controller (X-Touch) but with a second controller (x-tender) there are some kind of syncing problems when you have only a few tracks.
For example: the session has overal 50 tracks. the controllers are showing all tracks (no special group) and are on the second layer (track 17 to 32). now you hit a button to show only group B. If group B includes track 12 to 15 the controllers turn blackk.
I think there could be a more stable implementation if its done somehow from CSI.

greetings

[Geoff Waddington]

New build is up.

CSI Exp.zip

Possible fix TCPFX param alias bugs.

[Funkybot]

Hi Geoff, just gave this a quick go. Existing aliases in Classic FX zones are working again. I also created a new alias in a SelectedTrackTCPFXTemplae zone and that was also written and recalled successfully.

[Funkybot]

Now, that things are starting to settle down a bit and stability is returning, might be a good time to look at this awkwardness.

1. Load a plugin an empty track and follow the SelectedTrackTCPFXTemplate steps to create a new FX.zon for that plugin. Build it successfully, all that jazz.

2. Remove the plugin from the empty track

3. Add the same plugin back to the empty track

4. Activate your SelectedTrackFXMenu

Result: the FX Menu name is blank. It doesn't say "NoMap" doesn't show the expected display name. Just nothing.

Expected Result: would make sense if the map you just created was immediately useable. If you remove the plugin from the project, Refresh All Surfaces, then reload, it works as expected.

Note: I can seem to GoFXSlot to activate the plugin map but then it doesn't broadcast/receive as expected. It's only after removing the FX entirely, refreshing all surfaces, that everything works as expected. Just feels strange that new map you just built isn't immediately ready for use.

If Mixmonkey or anyone else wants to take a stab at reproducing, I'd appreciate it. Could just be something weird with broadcast/receive as I'm relying on the iPad for displays for the Twister versus this all just happening on one surface.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Hi Geoff, just gave this a quick go. Existing aliases in Classic FX zones are working again. I also created a new alias in a SelectedTrackTCPFXTemplae zone and that was also written and recalled successfully.

Excellent, thanks for testing !

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Now, that things are starting to settle down a bit and stability is returning, might be a good time to look at this awkwardness.

1. Load a plugin an empty track and follow the SelectedTrackTCPFXTemplate steps to create a new FX.zon for that plugin. Build it successfully, all that jazz.

2. Remove the plugin from the empty track

3. Add the same plugin back to the empty track

4. Activate your SelectedTrackFXMenu

Result: the FX Menu name is blank. It doesn't say "NoMap" doesn't show the expected display name. Just nothing.

Expected Result: would make sense if the map you just created was immediately useable. If you remove the plugin from the project, Refresh All Surfaces, then reload, it works as expected.

Note: I can seem to GoFXSlot to activate the plugin map but then it doesn't broadcast/receive as expected. It's only after removing the FX entirely, refreshing all surfaces, that everything works as expected. Just feels strange that new map you just built isn't immediately ready for use.

If Mixmonkey or anyone else wants to take a stab at reproducing, I'd appreciate it. Could just be something weird with broadcast/receive as I'm relying on the iPad for displays for the Twister versus this all just happening on one surface.

I'm reminded of a quote I first heard about 30 years ago.

"If architects designed wooden buildings the way computer architects design software, the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization"

As you may recall, CSI preprocesses Zone files at startup, reading the path, name and alias.

These are cached in the Zone Manager -- there is a Zone Manager for each Surface.

Now, when you build a TCPFX Zone, the Zone gets written to the Zone Folder specified in CSI.ini for that Surface.

All good so far.

CSI also updates the local Zone Manager cache so that the Zone is available without repeating the whole Zone preprocessing step.

What CSI does not do (yet) is tell the Page to look for any other Surfaces that share the same Zone folder and update those Surface's Zone Manager cache as well.

Thanks for the detailed report, I'm not positive that's the problem, but I"m pretty sure it is, since the Zone actually loads properly via GoFXSlot.

Will fix.

[Funkybot]

Based on your description of how things work, it sounds to me like you're barking up exactly the right tree.

[Geoff Waddington]

New build is up.

CSI Exp.zip

Possible fix for build TCPFX Zone where multiple Surfaces share a Zone Folder.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

New build is up.

CSI Exp.zip

Possible fix for build TCPFX Zone where multiple Surfaces share a Zone Folder.

It worked except for one thing: the SelectedTrackFXMenu name was still blank (not even showing "NoMap" - not showing anything) on the second surface. But as soon as I hit RotaryPush1, both surfaces came alive with the mapping with no need to refresh.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

It worked except for one thing: the SelectedTrackFXMenu name was still blank (not even showing "NoMap" - not showing anything) on the second surface. But as soon as I hit RotaryPush1, both surfaces came alive with the mapping with no need to refresh.

Was the menu already displayed ?

If so, just try going back to Track or Select another Track and then go back and see if that is the issue.

[Funkybot]

After additional testing, here's what I suspect is happening...

As background: my SelectedTrackFXMenu is part of the Home.zon and not an associated zone. But the SelectedTracTCPFXTemplate is indeed an AssociatedZone.

     IncludedZones
          "SelectedTrack"
          "Buttons"
          "SelectedTrackFXMenu"
          "SelectedTrackSend"
          "SelectedTrackReceive"
     IncludedZonesEnd
	AssociatedZones
	     "SelectedTrackTCPFXTemplate"
	AssociatedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd

So when I...

1. GoSelectedTrackTCPFXTemplate to begin mapping, then...
2. BuildSelectedTrackTCPFX, then after I'm done...
3. GoHome...

It feels like GoHome is not "turning off" the SelectedTrackTCPFX zone. That one remains on. I think the SelectedTrackFXMenu is not active, which is why I'm not seeing anything.

So if I do all my mapping on Track1, then on Track2, insert an FX I have zone for and select that track, I don't see the FX name in the display. But if I select on track 1 again, where I did the mapping...the SelectedTrackTCPFXMap is still active. GoHome didn't kill the zone. And I didn't need GoSelectedTrackTCPFX to activate the zone. I'm still looking at the prior mapping.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

After additional testing, here's what I suspect is happening...

As background: my SelectedTrackFXMenu is part of the Home.zon and not an associated zone. But the SelectedTracTCPFXTemplate is indeed an AssociatedZone.

     IncludedZones
          "SelectedTrack"
          "Buttons"
          "SelectedTrackFXMenu"
          "SelectedTrackSend"
          "SelectedTrackReceive"
     IncludedZonesEnd
	AssociatedZones
	     "SelectedTrackTCPFXTemplate"
	AssociatedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd

So when I...

1. GoSelectedTrackTCPFXTemplate to begin mapping, then...
2. BuildSelectedTrackTCPFX, then after I'm done...
3. GoHome...

It feels like GoHome is not "turning off" the SelectedTrackTCPFX zone. That one remains on. I think the SelectedTrackFXMenu is not active, which is why I'm not seeing anything.

So if I do all my mapping on Track1, then on Track2, insert an FX I have zone for and select that track, I don't see the FX name in the display. But if I select on track 1 again, where I did the mapping...the SelectedTrackTCPFXMap is still active. GoHome didn't kill the zone. And I didn't need GoSelectedTrackTCPFX to activate the zone. I'm still looking at the prior mapping.

What happens if you make SelectedTrackFXMenu an Associated Zone and do the steps indicated in my last post ?

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

What happens if you make SelectedTrackFXMenu an Associated Zone and do the steps indicated in my last post ?

Ok, the issue may be that I'm using "GoHome" from the X-TouchOne and that doesn't appear to be getting picked up by the Twister. I'm not going crazy right? One surface should be able to force another to GoHome if set to broadcast and the other receive and vice versa?

X-Touch One Home.zon

Zone Home
Broadcast Home
Receive Home
     IncludedZones
          "Buttons"
          "SelectedTrack"
          "MasterTrack"
     IncludedZonesEnd
     AssociatedZones
          "SelectedTrackSend"
          "SelectedTrackReceive"   
     AssociatedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd

X-Touch One Buttons.zon...

Zone "Buttons"
     F1                        GoHome
     F1                        Reaper _S&M_WNCLS4                         // Closes all(!) FX chain windows
     F1                        Reaper _S&M_WNCLS3                         // Closes all(!) floating FX windows

And the Twister Home.zon

Zone "Home"
OnInitialization ToggleEnableFocusedFXMapping 
OnInitialization Broadcast Home SelectedTrackFXMenu SelectedTrackSend SelectedTrackReceive SelectedTrackTCPFX SelectedTrackTCPFXTemplate
OnInitialization Receive   Home SelectedTrackFXMenu SelectedTrackSend SelectedTrackReceive SelectedTrackTCPFX SelectedTrackTCPFXTemplate
     IncludedZones
          "SelectedTrack"
          "Buttons"
          "SelectedTrackSend"
          "SelectedTrackReceive"
     IncludedZonesEnd
	AssociatedZones
          "SelectedTrackFXMenu"
	     "SelectedTrackTCPFXTemplate"
	AssociatedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd

Is the broadcast/receive syntax around going Home correct? I want pressing F1 on the X-Touch One to GoHome on all surfaces. But it doesn't seem to get through to the Twister+iPad.

If I dedicate a button on the Twister to GoHome, then it works. But only for that surface. Doesn't broadcast to the X-Touch One in that scenario.

[jakeman19]

Thought I'd see how many here have tried to create .zon's for any of the Series 2 FX John has created. I've mentioned this in the comments of his YouTube channel with his latest 2 new plugins that I'm still having issues with Series 2 plugins & CSI. He said they should be OK but I'm having issues still. Anyone else?

Jd

[leejul]

Hi,
When I'm in the FX menu, is it possible to call a SubZone?
I would like to leave the FX menu to go to my SubZone.
Should I make a Zone rather than a SubZone?
Thanks.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by leejul

Hi,
When I'm in the FX menu, is it possible to call a SubZone?
I would like to leave the FX menu to go to my SubZone.
Should I make a Zone rather than a SubZone?
Thanks.

Maybe provide a bit more context? What does the SubZone do?

[leejul]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Maybe provide a bit more context? What does the SubZone do?

I made a page dedicated to automation.
This page contains several automation actions.
I would like to be able to call this page (SubZone) from any other pages.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by leejul

I made a page dedicated to automation.
This page contains several automation actions.
I would like to be able to call this page (SubZone) from any other pages.

Why not call it from the Buttons Zone? (i'm assuming here that the Buttons Zone is an Included Zone and therefore continuously active)

[leejul]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Why not call it from the Buttons Zone? (i'm assuming here that the Buttons Zone is an Included Zone and therefore continuously active)

That's what I did, but when I call the page, it goes into GlobalView. It's not going to my page from FX Menu.
On the other hand, if I call the page from GlobalView, it works perfectly.
That's why I asked if it is possible to call a SubZone from the FX menu.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by leejul

That's what I did, but when I call the page, it goes into GlobalView. It's not going to my page from FX Menu.
On the other hand, if I call the page from GlobalView, it works perfectly.
That's why I asked if it is possible to call a SubZone from the FX menu.

ZIP up your CSI folder and post it, I’ll take a look

[claytownproductions]

I'm sure this has probably been requested, but it would be great to be able to move multiple faders of selected tracks with a single fader move while maintaining their relative relationships. I use this feature all the time within Reaper using the mouse or shortcuts for incremental volume adjustments, however, using a single fader on my X-Touch One would be much more useful.

Are there any plans for something like this?

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by claytownproductions

I'm sure this has probably been requested, but it would be great to be able to move multiple faders of selected tracks with a single fader move while maintaining their relative relationships. I use this feature all the time within Reaper using the mouse or shortcuts for incremental volume adjustments, however, using a single fader on my X-Touch One would be much more useful.

Are there any plans for something like this?

Just want to add: I think the key to this request is that this is with an X-Touch One, using I'm assuming a "SelectedTrack" zone.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the ask here is:

1. I select multiple tracks in Reaper
2. I move the fader with my mouse - it creates a quick group and moves all faders

CSI should work the same way with the SelectedTrack zones but instead, all faders go to zero.