Control Surface Integration (CSI) Technical Feature Discussion - Page 593

flipotto · 07-25-2023, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

I've got the BCR2000 set up now (was just using iPad) and I've just noticed that pressing User3 on the BCR2000 doesn't turn on Auto-Map anymore - it used to though, didn't it?

It did, pretty sure...

Quote:

Learn relies on the principle of the "last touched control". All you need to do is open an FX window and move a control. If you click in the Reaper "Param" box in the bar above the FX GUI, you'll see (in annoyingly light grey type) "Last touched:" followed by the parameter name.

Confirmed, it does

Quote:

Now enter Learn mode (button User4).

If you now move a control on the BCR2000, you should see that parameter name (and value) appear on the iPad.

Nope not getting anything on ipad screen change - bcr knobs NOT recognized for learning

Will now try this:

Code:

1.TDR VOS on track 1 click on track 1
2. wiggle low f
3. confirm via param button it is last selected
4. press learn on ipad (ipad text on button changes to "erase"
5. wiggle bcr D1 ( - NO text appears on ipad screen showing mapped knob.
Stuck here - Oh but wait...
6. move knob on ipad - corresponding to d1, param and label show up on ipad - at correct location. Cool!
7. map a couple things...
8. press save on ipad (button reverts to AMAP button) however mapped params disappear.
9. Press ipad fxMenu select for TDR VOS mapped params show up on ipad and knobs on bcr do control learnt knobs.

Quote:

The control is now mapped to the parameter.

If you press Save, you will GoHome and the FX menu on the iPad should show the plugin name instead of "NoMap". You can now activate that plugin from the FXMenu in the normal way.

Try that and see if it works for you and we'll go from there

Success!
That was using ipad to learn - it does not recognize the attempt learn from bcr knob movements at the moment.
After save -
I will attempt to add a few more controls
attempted to add buttons for "autogain" = q1 and "outstage" = q3
pressed "save" (ipad) those 2 new mapped params did not get saved.
Press fxmenu select for TDR VOS - autogain and outstage learnt mapping is gone.
This is major progress.

I now try to press Remap
Reaper dialog opens "Remap Auto Zone"
I can't drag or drop items in list
I can't click (or rt click) on cell to change number of values
Click on EDIT does not appear to do anything.

Should I be able to modify learnt map with remap button, as long as I don't do text editor?

MixMonkey · 07-25-2023, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipotto

Nope not getting anything on ipad screen change - bcr knobs recognized for learning

Not working here either. This dual, mirrored surface thing is new territory for Learn.

Quote:

6. move knob on ipad - corresponding to d1, param and label show up on ipad - at correct location. Cool!
7. map a couple things...
8. press save on ipad (button reverts to AMAP button) however mapped params disappear.
9. Press ipad fxMenu select for TDR VOS mapped params show up on ipad and knobs on bcr do control learnt knobs.

That's what I get here and is the best we can do at the moment

Quote:

I will attempt to add a few more controls
attempted to add buttons for "autogain" = q1 and "outstage" = q3
pressed "save" (ipad) those 2 new mapped params did not get saved.
Press fxmenu select for TDR VOS - autogain and outstage learnt mapping is gone.

This works without issue here.

Quote:

I now try to press Remap
Reaper dialog opens "Remap Auto Zone"
I can't drag or drop items in list
I can't click (or rt click) on cell to change number of values
Click on EDIT does not appear to do anything.

Should I be able to modify learnt map with remap button, as long as I don't do text editor?

This works here. Once a Learnt Zone is created it can be edited as normal, either with the ReMap window or manually. Be advised though, that after you've edited a Learnt Zone you can't re-enter Learn mode to add/delete controls, you have to continue editing in the ReMap window or manually.

Geoff Waddington · 07-25-2023, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Not working here either. This dual, mirrored surface thing is new territory for Learn.

You probably already did this, but just in case...

Make sure every Surface involved has a LearnFXParams Associated Zone defined, and that Home is defined accordingly.

With mirrored Surfaces, I'd presume you want to share FX folders too.

MixMonkey · 07-25-2023, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

You probably already did this, but just in case...

Make sure every Surface involved has a LearnFXParams Associated Zone defined, and that Home is defined accordingly.

With mirrored Surfaces, I'd presume you want to share FX folders too.

With the BCR2000/iPad setup, there's only one Zone folder and those files are used by both surfaces. It's just a classic "iPad mirrors physical surface" arrangement.

Do the iPad and BCR2000 need their own (identical) Zone folders to function properly with Learn?

Geoff Waddington · 07-25-2023, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

With the BCR2000/iPad setup, there's only one Zone folder and those files are used by both surfaces. It's just a classic "iPad mirrors physical surface" arrangement.

Do the iPad and BCR2000 need their own (identical) Zone folders to function properly with Learn?

Not if you are just using the iPad as a display.

However, if you are learning on both devices, when you press Save, one device will write its mappings, then the other device will clobber that file with its mappings

MixMonkey · 07-25-2023, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Not if you are just using the iPad as a display.

However, if you are learning on both devices, when you press Save, one device will write its mappings, then the other device will clobber that file with its mappings

The iPad has controls as well as displays. What's happening is that whilst Learn can be initiated from the BCR2000 (GoAssociatedZone LearnFXParams), parameters can only be learnt by using the iPad controls. Turning a BCR2000 control is not recognised in Learn mode.

Geoff Waddington · 07-25-2023, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

The iPad has controls as well as displays. What's happening is that whilst Learn can be initiated from the BCR2000 (GoAssociatedZone LearnFXParams), parameters can only be learnt by using the iPad controls. Turning a BCR2000 control is not recognised in Learn mode.

What happens if you set up the BCR2000 by itself, without the iPad, does it work then ?

Geoff Waddington · 07-25-2023, 01:54 PM

Struggling with a CSI design limitation.

I want to be clear it is CSI and not the SCE24.

Getting some spurious screen refreshes.

I've tracked it down to the .mst definitions.

In order to split the SCE24 screen into 4 rows, we've defined:

Code:

Widget DisplayRow1A1
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 20 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayRow2A1
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 20 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayRow3A1
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 20 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayRow4A1
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 20 7f
WidgetEnd

Notice that they are all the same -- 90 20 7f.

This is a trick to work around CSI limitations.

In order to cut down on redundant traffic, CSI checks "last text sent" and only updates if the current text is not the same as the "last text sent".

Those of you who have been around a while can see this coming

The problem comes when, say, an FX defines row 1 with a small font that displays the param name, and row 2 with a small font that displays the param value.

Now let's say another Zone has defined row 1 with a large font so that it effectively occupies rows 1 and 2.

CSI goes through the zone definitions and updates each Widget, marking that Widget as used, so that the dreaded duelling updates don't occur.

The trouble is, the Zone that uses the large font will mark row 1 as used, but, importantly, not row 2.

This will allow row 2 with the small font to bleed through, clobbering the lower half of the large font on row 1.

It's not exactly duelling updates, but it is a close cousin.

Trying not be overly restrictive here.

What's really needed is a re-arch of displays, where a used Widget also defines a rectangle on the display device, marking that rectangle as used.

Hmmm...

Sitting here typing this has given me some ideas as to how to proceed...

Thinking maybe the font defined in the Zone Action properties for the Widget can help us here...

Of course, as usual, any thoughts/suggestions more than welcomed.

Funkybot · 07-25-2023, 02:09 PM

Geoff,

How did Navelpluisje work around it with the different display modes for the FaderPort? My recollection is that there's a DisplayMode Widget Property with several options (e.g. 2 small text rows + 1 big row, 3 small rows, 2 small rows + 1 value bar, etc.). And the process is basically: 1) select one of the display mode preset screens, then 2) just enter what you want each display line or value bar to show in the zone files.

Rather than rearch CSI displays, did you consider lifting the FaderPortDisplay approach and applying that to the SCE-24? I think it has the benefits of 1) already existing/working

, 2) being easy to understand/document/author. I assure you I don't need pixel level control of the screens and margins, but a few well-designed, preset display modes like on the FaderPortDisplay widgets, would be perfect IMO.

Example:

DisplayMode=1 (i.e. Eucon-style, good for track, send, receive zones)
2 med text rows (e.g. TrackName, TrackVolume)
1 value bar (TrackPan or TrackOutputMeter)

DisplayMode=2 (single FXParam mode)
1 small text row (FXParamName)
1 big text row (FXParamValue)

DisplayMode=3 (multi FXParam modes)
4 small text rows (i.e. two sets of FXParamNameDisplay and FXValueDisplay for Rotary and Push)

etc.

...in fact, I'm not even sure I need more than those 3.

Geoff Waddington · 07-25-2023, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Geoff,

How did Navelpluisje work around it with the different display modes for the FaderPort? My recollection is that there's a DisplayMode Widget Property with several options (e.g. 2 small text rows + 1 big row, 3 small rows, 2 small rows + 1 value bar, etc.). And the process is basically: 1) select one of the display mode preset screens, then 2) just enter what you want each display line or value bar to show in the zone files.

Rather than rearch CSI displays, did you consider lifting the FaderPortDisplay approach and applying that to the SCE-24? I think it has the benefits of 1) already existing/working

, 2) being easy to understand/document/author. I assure you I don't need pixel level control of the screens and margins, but a few well-designed, preset display modes like on the FaderPortDisplay widgets, would be perfect IMO.

Example:

DisplayMode=1 (i.e. Eucon-style, good for track, send, receive zones)
2 med text rows (e.g. TrackName, TrackVolume)
1 value bar (TrackPan or TrackOutputMeter)

DisplayMode=2 (single FXParam mode)
1 small text row (FXParamName)
1 big text row (FXParamValue)

DisplayMode=3 (multi FXParam modes)
4 small text rows (i.e. two sets of FXParamNameDisplay and FXValueDisplay for Rotary and Push)

etc.

...in fact, I'm not even sure I need more than those 3.

Kudos for the thoughts !

Been pondering this a bit, how about the following:

Let's talk from the Remap perspective.

A typical SCE24 SurfaceFXLayout looks like this.

Code:

Zone SurfaceFXLayout
	Rotary FXParam RingStyle=Dot LEDRingColor=#0000ffff PushColor=#003f00ff
	DisplayRow1 FixedTextDisplay TopMargin=0 BottomMargin=24 Font=3 Foreground=#ffff00ff Background=#000000ff
	DisplayRow2 FXParamValueDisplay TopMargin=32 BottomMargin=64 Font=5 Foreground=#ffff00ff Background=#000000ff
ZoneEnd

#WidgetTypes Rotary RotaryPush
#RingStyles Dot Fill BoostCut Spread
#DisplayRows DisplayRow1 DisplayRow2 DisplayRow3 DisplayRow4
#DisplayFonts 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

What if those display rows were pseudo rows.

Code:

#DisplayRows Row=1 Row=2 Row=3 Row=4

Remap could reinterpret those into properties.

Code:

Row=1
Row=2
Row=3
Row=4

That combined with font would give us what we need, I believe.

We would then be able to replace these:

Code:

Widget DisplayRow1A1
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 20 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayRow2A1
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 20 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayRow3A1
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 20 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayRow4A1
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 20 7f
WidgetEnd

with this:

Code:

Widget DisplayRowA1
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 20 7f
WidgetEnd

You could use DisplayRowA1 as many times as you wished in the Zone giving it different row and font properties.

This gets us out of the update/used Widget dilemma.

Now, we have a little clean up, isle 9, to deal with

Effectively, when DisplayRowA1 is mentioned more than once, the feedback rules will kick in, as they should.

In this case we want to override the feedback rules, allowing feedback from many Actions simultaneously.

This is possible, because, if we define our Zones correctly, the different text feedback items will be on different rows.

I'm already anticipating adding a new Action:

Code:

OnZoneActivation ConfigureSCE24

This would take care of setting up fonts, colours, Rotary LEDs, etc.

We could just add one more task -- allow feedback for all display Actions.

I actually think that's a very workable solution.

Am I missing anything obvious ?

Funkybot · 07-25-2023, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Kudos for the thoughts !

Been pondering this a bit, how about the following:

....

I actually think that's a very workable solution.

Am I missing anything obvious ?

This sounds good.

What would the zone syntax look like? I'm imagining this, but then the same widget gets called multiple times.

Code:

DisplayRowA1 FXParamName 16 Row=1 FixedTextDisplay TopMargin=0 BottomMargin=24 Font=3 Foreground=#ffff00ff Background=#000000ff
DisplayRowA1 FXParamValue 16 Row=2 FXParamValueDisplay TopMargin=32 BottomMargin=64 Font=5 Foreground=#ffff00ff Background=#000000ff

Geoff Waddington · 07-25-2023, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkybot

What would the zone syntax look like? I'm imagining this, but then the same widget gets called multiple times.

Code:

DisplayRowA1 FXParamName 16 Row=1 FixedTextDisplay TopMargin=0 BottomMargin=24 Font=3 Foreground=#ffff00ff Background=#000000ff
DisplayRowA1 FXParamValue 16 Row=2 FXParamValueDisplay TopMargin=32 BottomMargin=64 Font=5 Foreground=#ffff00ff Background=#000000ff

Very close, you don't need top and bottom margin, they can be deduced by CSI from font size.

You are right, the same widget gets called multiple times, that's why we need the post activation step of overriding the "normal" feedback rules.

In your example, you have a "properly defined" Zone with no collisions, so multiple feedback is possible without issues.

Funkybot · 07-25-2023, 03:30 PM

Sounds good. Go for it!

Geoff Waddington · 07-25-2023, 04:55 PM

I'd like to add one minor (at least I hope it is) constraint.

A given display can't change "shape" within a given Zone.

In other words this is verboten:

Code:

DisplayA1       SomeAction  Row=1 font=3
Shift+DisplayA1 OtherAction Row=1 font=5

Things would get out of hand quickly if we allowed that

Funkybot · 07-25-2023, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

I'd like to add one minor (at least I hope it is) constraint.

A given display can't change "shape" within a given Zone.

In other words this is verboten:

Code:

DisplayA1       SomeAction  Row=1 font=3
Shift+DisplayA1 OtherAction Row=1 font=5

Things would get out of hand quickly if we allowed that

That just sounds like a given.

Geoff Waddington · 07-25-2023, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkybot

That just sounds like a given.

I think it will be easy to enforce in Remap.

The font dropdown will be disabled when editing modified Actions.

flipotto · 07-25-2023, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

What happens if you set up the BCR2000 by itself, without the iPad, does it work then ?

Removed ipad touchosc and pcmonitor osc from CSI setup
I confirm that the first TDR VOS controls that I mapped above (existing learned map) are controlled by BCR.
When I attempt to learn a new plugin, bcr does not appear to work.

Is there a way to use my computer keyboard to trigger "learn" and "save"?
The BCR without touchosc gives me no feedback that the "learn" button was really pressed.

EDIT - after reconnecting pcmonitorosc, I can press learn and feedback supports learn is selected. however I cannot trigger "save" from bcr userbutton3.
from BCR2000.mst

Code:

Widget User3
    Press 90 0b 7f 90 0b 00
    FB_TwoState 90 0b 7f 90 0b 00
WidgetEnd

From Reaper Console

Code:

IN <- BCR2000 90  0b  7f 
IN <- BCR2000 90  0b  00

BCR user3 button message is getting to Reaper and matches widget
So with "learn" I believe I am entering learn mode (CSI) but since "save" never gets triggered, therefore learned params are not saved.

from buttons.zon

Code:

    User3                       ToggleAutoFXMapping { #571F1FFF #FF5A5AFF } 
    User3DisplayUpper           FixedTextDisplay AMAP
    User3DisplayLower           NoAction

from LearnedFXParams.zon

Code:

    User3                   SaveLearnedFXParams
(should this be SaveLearnFXParams? NO sorry for the bother)		
    User3DisplayUpper       FixedTextDisplay SAVE
    User3DisplayLower       NoAction

Not sure where else to check.
Does it need the color parts like buttons { #571F1FFF #FF5A5AFF }?

Tired - BCR2000 User3 "save" button not working when in Learn mode.
Also - BCR2000 User3 "AMAP" button not working when out of Learn mode
Console shows the User3 button output (see above) in both situations.

EDIT2 -
I noticed the name of the zone in the BCR2000 folder is "LearnedFXParams.zon"
Does it need to be "LearnFXParams.zon"?

MixMonkey · 07-26-2023, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipotto

EDIT2 -
I noticed the name of the zone in the BCR2000 folder is "LearnedFXParams.zon"
Does it need to be "LearnFXParams.zon"?

Strictly speaking yes, it should be LearnFXParams.zon, but this is just the file name of the Zone. CSI parses the contents of the Zone and the Zone name is LearnFXParams.

Regarding all the other stuff in your post, I can confirm I'm getting exactly the same results here. I'll investigate further later today. Thanks for testing!

flipotto · 07-26-2023, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Strictly speaking yes, it should be LearnFXParams.zon, but this is just the file name of the Zone. CSI parses the contents of the Zone and the Zone name is LearnFXParams.

So filename is not relevant, it finds the correct zone in any of the files in the Zones folder. I am still getting used how things work.

Quote:

Regarding all the other stuff in your post, I can confirm I'm getting exactly the same results here. I'll investigate further later today. Thanks for testing!

MixMonkey · 07-26-2023, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipotto

So filename is not relevant, it finds the correct zone in any of the files in the Zones folder.

That has been my understanding. Try correcting the file name and see if it makes a difference.

flipotto · 07-26-2023, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

That has been my understanding. Try correcting the file name and see if it makes a difference.

I did, it didn't.

losj8 · 07-26-2023, 01:02 PM

Hello guys! I need your help! I'm having some issues with feedback on the buttons of my X-Touch mini. I assigned the "Master track mono/stereo" command to one button, and when I press it, the button just blinks but doesn't stay lit. However, if I activate the same function with the mouse, the button lights up. What am I missing?

In my .mst file, this button is specified as follows:

Code:

Widget ButtonLowA1
Press 9a 10 7f
FB_TwoState 9a 10 7f 9a 10 00
WidgetEnd

In the .zon file:

Code:

ButtonLowA1 Reaper "40917" // master track mono/stereo

Do you have any ideas on how to fix this?

MixMonkey · 07-26-2023, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by losj8

Do you have any ideas on how to fix this?

Use MC mode on the X-Touch Mini.

ajaym · 07-26-2023, 02:48 PM

I've gotten my Yamaha DM3 working with DrivenByMoss (Yamaha uses HUI) and it works very well but there are some caveats. I wondered if CSI can be configured to support all the features listed here that work as well as resolve the ones that don't, before I start spending a lot of time on this. It would be great to have a perfect fit, the Cubase HUI plugin works absolutely flawlessly but.... I use Reaper.

Here's the comments from the DrivenByMoss thread I posted

The only really significant issue is that channel change, instead of moving the leftmost fader to be on the previous/next channel, moves the selected channel inside the current bank until you get to the beginning/end when it does a bank change. But this precludes grouping faders that cross a bank boundary from being controllable from a single view, which is a shame. (e.g faders 6,7,8,9). You would never be able to get these into a single view on the mixer because you can't move in increments of one channel. The Cubase HUI plugin does do this correctly.

The timecode display works
All transport controls work correctly
Record arm, mute and solo all work
Scribble strips work
Metering works
The rotary encoder will move around the timeline
Scrub and shuttle do NOT work - the plugin log reports these keys aren't supported
Rec/Rdy All reports not supported
The automation buttons don't report any errors in the log but don't appear to work correctly. They can cause automation to be engaged but its unpredictable and things in general don't seem to work correctly here. You can see Reaper's automation fader jumping all over the place as you try and record any automation and the mode doesn't change when you select read/touch/latch/write/trim/off

The bank switches work correctly but the channel switches, instead of moving all faders one position right or left, change the focus within the current bank.
You cannot (AFAIK) configure the plugin so that the master fader is controllable, only the channel faders. [this WAS possible with the Reaper plugin]

Geoff Waddington · 07-26-2023, 03:01 PM

Nothing against any of the recent posters, but things have been sliding back a bit, we're trying to keep this thread about technical feature discussion.

Sorry to be the evil thread police, but please repost to the configuration/setup thread:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....278718&page=21

Folks in that thread, which include most of the posters here, as well as others, will be glad to help get you going in no time.

Geoff Waddington · 07-26-2023, 03:06 PM

Disabling the font dropdown when editing modified Actions won't cut it, because you may later move (reorder) that param to the unmodified section.

As well, you may want to use a different font due to the length of some fixed text.

Working on a solution that accommodates these use cases.

FB, sorry but the .mst file will need to be reworked, as well as all Zone definitions.

Code:

Widget DisplayA1
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 20 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayA2
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 21 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayA3
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 22 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayA4
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 23 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayA5
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 24 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayA6
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 25 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayA7
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 26 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayA8
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 27 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayB1
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 28 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayB2
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 29 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayB3
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 2a 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayB4
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 2b 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayB5
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 2c 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayB6
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 2d 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayB7
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 2e 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayB8
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 2f 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayC1
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 30 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayC2
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 31 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayC3
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 32 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayC4
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 33 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayC5
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 34 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayC6
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 35 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayC7
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 36 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayC8
	FB_SCE24EncoderText 90 37 7f
WidgetEnd

Here are the font pixel heights for reference, they're in code, but I'm sure you can figure it out

Code:

static map<int, int> fontHeights =
{
    { 0, 8 },
    { 1, 13 },
    { 2, 16 },
    { 3, 18 },
    { 4, 20 },
    { 5, 24 },
    { 6, 28 },
    { 7, 32 },
    { 8, 48 },
    { 9, 60 }
};

flipotto · 07-26-2023, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Nothing against any of the recent posters, but things have been sliding back a bit, we're trying to keep this thread about technical feature discussion.

Sorry to be the evil thread police, but please repost to the configuration/setup thread:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....278718&page=21

Folks in that thread, which include most of the posters here, as well as others, will be glad to help get you going in no time.

Should MM and I move there with our issues on bcr and touchosc on experimental version?

Funkybot · 07-26-2023, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

FB, sorry but the .mst file will need to be reworked, as well as all Zone definitions.

Just do one cell or two for me and I can take over the rest of the .mst and setting up any .zon files when you're ready.

Anticipating potential changes, I've put doing anything CSI-related with the SCE-24 on the backburner for now while you work this all out. So no worries from me.

It might not be a bad idea to get 3.2 with the Learn mode out in the meantime, but if there's a chance SCE-24 development may impact existing syntax, might be worth holding off.

Geoff Waddington · 07-26-2023, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipotto

Should MM and I move there with our issues on bcr and touchosc on experimental version?

Yours is a tricky case, it straddles both.

If we keep it here, it does not overtake the other thread, so that's good.

But, keeping it here leads posters, especially new ones, to think this is the place for such requests.

In other words, I have absolutely no effin' idea what to do with your topic

Geoff Waddington · 07-26-2023, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Just do one cell or two for me and I can take over the rest of the .mst and setting up any .zon files when you're ready.

Code:

Zone SurfaceFXLayout
	Rotary FXParam RingStyle=Dot LEDRingColor=#0000ffff PushColor=#003f00ff
	Display FixedTextDisplay Row=1 Font=3 Foreground=#ffff00ff Background=#000000ff
	Display FXParamValueDisplay Row=2 Font=5 Foreground=#ffff00ff Background=#000000ff
ZoneEnd

#WidgetTypes Rotary RotaryPush
#RingStyles Dot Fill BoostCut Spread
#DisplayRows Row=1 Row=2 Row=3 Row=4
#DisplayFonts 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Anticipating potential changes, I've put doing anything CSI-related with the SCE-24 on the backburner for now while you work this all out. So no worries from me.

It might not be a bad idea to get 3.2 with the Learn mode out in the meantime, but if there's a chance SCE-24 development may impact existing syntax, might be worth holding off.

I should have this working in a day or so -- famous last words

Make sure you go back to the previous post to see the edit about font sizes.

Geoff Waddington · 07-26-2023, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajaym

I've gotten my Yamaha DM3 working with DrivenByMoss (Yamaha uses HUI) and it works very well but there are some caveats. I wondered if CSI can be configured to support all the features listed here that work as well as resolve the ones that don't, before I start spending a lot of time on this. It would be great to have a perfect fit, the Cubase HUI plugin works absolutely flawlessly but.... I use Reaper.

Here's the comments from the DrivenByMoss thread I posted

The only really significant issue is that channel change, instead of moving the leftmost fader to be on the previous/next channel, moves the selected channel inside the current bank until you get to the beginning/end when it does a bank change. But this precludes grouping faders that cross a bank boundary from being controllable from a single view, which is a shame. (e.g faders 6,7,8,9). You would never be able to get these into a single view on the mixer because you can't move in increments of one channel. The Cubase HUI plugin does do this correctly.

The timecode display works
All transport controls work correctly
Record arm, mute and solo all work
Scribble strips work
Metering works
The rotary encoder will move around the timeline
Scrub and shuttle do NOT work - the plugin log reports these keys aren't supported
Rec/Rdy All reports not supported
The automation buttons don't report any errors in the log but don't appear to work correctly. They can cause automation to be engaged but its unpredictable and things in general don't seem to work correctly here. You can see Reaper's automation fader jumping all over the place as you try and record any automation and the mode doesn't change when you select read/touch/latch/write/trim/off

The bank switches work correctly but the channel switches, instead of moving all faders one position right or left, change the focus within the current bank.
You cannot (AFAIK) configure the plugin so that the master fader is controllable, only the channel faders. [this WAS possible with the Reaper plugin]

Please see FBs response here: https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=807

MixMonkey · 07-26-2023, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipotto

Should MM and I move there with our issues on bcr and touchosc on experimental version?

I think we're ok

--nervously looks over shoulder for the poster police--

Try these files out. there's a new BCR2000.mst and BCR2000 Zone folder. Also, use the attached CSI build. It won't work with the latest one (where I foolishly got Geoff to allow Learn to span surfaces). The latest one will work, but won't let you add to an Learnt FX.zon by returning to learn mode.

When you use Learn mode, the learnt controls won't appear on the iPad until you've saved and re-loaded the Zone. You will see the control on the plugin GUI move when you turn a BCR2000 control though.

In some ways it's almost easier to learn the controls using the iPad, as you see them appear on the iPad screen immediately but not on the BCR2000. See what you think.

flipotto · 07-27-2023, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

I think we're ok

--nervously looks over shoulder for the poster police--

Perhaps you could open private messaging on the forum, then I could communicate with you directly until stability is reached? I tried to send you a pm but you don't have it active.

Quote:

Try these files out. there's a new BCR2000.mst and BCR2000 Zone folder. Also, use the attached CSI build. It won't work with the latest one (where I foolishly got Geoff to allow Learn to span surfaces). The latest one will work, but won't let you add to an Learnt FX.zon by returning to learn mode.

Last upload 7/27/23
I copied all you sent deleted old ones.
Breaks ipad fx menu for me. Try this.

Code:

Add a track to empty project
Buttons get labelled on ipad (so I know CSI is talking to ipad)
but no plugins show up on fxmenu 
(my default track adds EQ and Comp)

Therefore, I can't see fxmenu plugin "NoMap" on ipad. Hmm...

However, using bcr Learn button works and Lights up (nice)I can map controls with bcr. Wiggle plugin knob, then wiggle bcr - mapping happens, nice! Save button works!

Ipad Odd behavior - if while mapping I move a knob on the ipad it will learn whatever control I wiggled last, even one that has been learned somewhere else on bcr, and it gets a label.

Quote:

When you use Learn mode, the learnt controls won't appear on the iPad until you've saved and re-loaded the Zone. You will see the control on the plugin GUI move when you turn a BCR2000 control though.

Since I can't select plugin with FxMenu, I can't confirm. However, I confirm with comment out ToggleEnableFocusedFXMapping, labels appear on ipad

Quote:

In some ways it's almost easier to learn the controls using the iPad, as you see them appear on the iPad screen immediately but not on the BCR2000. See what you think.

I agree, mapping from ipad or from pcScreenOsc is better.
Also, during mapping, I would rather have active/focused plugin selected and NOT use ipad fxmenu. Could that be toggled when going into learn mode? Since we are wiggling plugin controls, plugin will always be active anyway. Except if we are using pcscreenOsc, then it would not be active as soon as we click on touchosc window... hmmm.

MixMonkey · 07-27-2023, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipotto

Perhaps you could open private messaging on the forum, then I could communicate with you directly until stability is reached? I tried to send you a pm but you don't have it active.

I'm not a fan of private messaging because a lot of troubleshooting information that would be useful for other people gets hidden away. I was only joking about the poster police

Quote:

Breaks ipad fx menu for me.

That's interesting, let me check.

Quote:

However, using bcr Learn button works and Lights up (nice)I can map controls with bcr. Wiggle plugin knob, then wiggle bcr - mapping happens, nice! Save button works!

That's good

, although we seem to have have ended up in an either/or situation between the iPad and BCR in that controls appear immediately on the iPad or the BCR but not both.

Quote:

Ipad Odd behavior - if while mapping I move a knob on the ipad it will learn whatever control I wiggled last, even one that has been learned somewhere else on bcr, and it gets a label.

That's the expected behaviour. The iPad is mapping the "Last touched control".

Quote:

I agree, mapping from ipad or from pcScreenOsc is better.

It is for me too, because you see the labels appear as you map. It doesn't seem possible to have that happen when turning controls on the BCR.

Quote:

Also, during mapping, I would rather have active/focused plugin selected and NOT use ipad fxmenu.

When using Learn mode it isn't necessary to select the plugin from the FXMenu. All you have to do is open the plugin GUI on the screen and turn a control. That "primes" the system with the correct "Last touched control". You can then enter Learn mode and turn a knob to map it and continue mapping the plugin from there.

flipotto · 07-27-2023, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

That's interesting, let me check.

That's good

, although we seem to have have ended up in an either/or situation between the iPad and BCR in that controls appear immediately on the iPad or the BCR but not both.
-- snip --
It is for me too, because you see the labels appear as you map. It doesn't seem possible to have that happen when turning controls on the BCR.

For me, personally, I'd rather use ipad/touchosc pc screen.
How about lock that down and not look back? If that's the case should I go back to latest exp build? That might solve the ipad fxmenu thing, I'm having?

Do the knobs from ipad work back to reaper, could they? I know the user buttons do.

Quote:

When using Learn mode it isn't necessary to select the plugin from the FXMenu. All you have to do is open the plugin GUI on the screen and turn a control. That "primes" the system with the correct "Last touched control". You can then enter Learn mode and turn a knob to map it and continue mapping the plugin from there.

Very good, thanks, you probably told me that 3 times now.
What next? FXLayouts zone - adding alt, ctrl etc... does that work?

Oh - while I'm thinking about it, on TouchOsc FXmenu buttons - can you add a change in button color or text for selected plugin? When plugins are not open it can be hard to remember which one is selected.

MixMonkey · 07-27-2023, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipotto

For me, personally, I'd rather use ipad/touchosc pc screen.
How about lock that down and not look back? If that's the case should I go back to latest exp build? That might solve the ipad fxmenu thing?

Yes, try that and see how it goes. I'll take another look at it later today. I had to add a ton of stuff to the BCR2000.mst to make Learn work, but if we agree it's better to do it via OSC, I'll get rid of the additions.

Quote:

Do the knobs from ipad work back to reaper, could they? I know the user buttons do.

Yes, they all should work. It should function completely independently of the BCR2000.

Quote:

Oh - while I'm thinking about it, on TouchOsc FXmenu buttons - can you add a change in button color or text for selected plugin? When plugins are not open it can be hard to remember which one is selected.

I agree it's a good idea, but I don't think there's currently a way to do it.

flipotto · 07-27-2023, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Yes, try that and see how it goes. I'll take another look at it later today. I had to add a ton of stuff to the BCR2000.mst to make Learn work, but if we agree it's better to do it via OSC, I'll get rid of the additions.

The Save button should continue to work. I don't want you to have wasted work getting it going. Would anyone need it? Not having learn directly from bcr is a departure from how new CSI works. Could there be a setting in zon files or .mst somewhere that could choose between ipad/pc or bcr for learn mode?

Quote:

Yes, they all should work. It should function completely independently of the BCR2000.

Will try it.

Quote:

I agree it's a good idea, but I don't think there's currently a way to do it.

Ok - yeah I looked and there's color changing on the shift/alt etc fxmenu and I looked in docs and didn't see a function for FXselecteddisplay
I do see FXBypassDisplay, FXOfflineDisplay,
Perhaps we could request that?
Since that is a feature request and Geoff may not read this, I'll ask.

MixMonkey · 07-27-2023, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipotto

Not having learn directly from bcr is a departure from how new CSI works.

Not really. Take away the ipad and those new files let you learn directly from the BCR2000. It's the addition of the iPad that changes things. Learn operates at the surface level and our iPad/BCR2000 lash up forces a choice of either learning from the iPad (and having the benefit of the displays whilst learning) or the BCR2000 (and using the BCR knobs). After Learn is completed, it makes no difference, the FX.zon works on both.

Quote:

Could there be a setting in zon files or .mst somewhere that could choose between ipad/pc or bcr for learn mode?

It's a bit more fundemental than a change at the Zone level, i'm afraid and we really want it to "just work" on both.

Quote:

Ok - yeah I looked and there's color changing on the shift/alt etc fxmenu and I looked in docs and didn't see a function for FXselecteddisplay
I do see FXBypassDisplay, FXOfflineDisplay

That's for writing text to the display. On the iPad I use colors on the FXMenu for that.

Quote:

Perhaps we could request that?
Since that is a feature request and Geoff may not read this, I'll ask.

I'm sure Geoff will read this, but let me look into it a bit more.

Funkybot · 07-27-2023, 06:56 AM

Geoff, a small potential can of worms just occurred to me: due to the variable font sizes on the SCE-24, does a global ToggleRestrictTextLength action become too restrictive for that surface? For instance, maybe restricting the length to 7 works great for font size 4, but hypothetically, we can get 13 characters with font size 1. How to best deal with that?

I'm wondering if it makes sense to hardcode the # of characters for each font size on the cell screens then just have the ToggleRestrictTextLength action toggle it on or off. The Main Displays would also have different text lengths.

Pretty minor in the grand scheme of things, but just something that popped into my head.

flipotto · 07-27-2023, 07:14 AM

Request - FXSelectedDisply
Why needed: On ipad/touchosc using FxMenu
MM has created template that already uses FXBypassDisplay, FXOfflineDisplay, however, it is difficult to know which plugin is selected as they are not active or open. If CSI could pass a color change to the button, it would make it easier to know which was being controlled.

Unless there is another way to do this?