Control Surface Integration (CSI) Technical Feature Discussion - Page 603

Funkybot · 08-07-2023, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Learn Mode is also working (from the iPad only) providing you cancel the second warning dialog that appears when you first map an FX.

Ah...so that's the trick!

The alternative, as Geoff suggested, is to remove the LearnFXParam associated zone from the MIDI device and map exclusively on the iPad (or desktop as flipotto suggested).

MixMonkey · 08-07-2023, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Ah...so that's the trick!

The alternative, as Geoff suggested, is to remove the LearnFXParam associated zone from the MIDI device and map exclusively on the iPad (or desktop as flipotto suggested).

That didn't work here. Only moving that FX Zones folder made any difference. It's starting to look like this standalone FX Zones folder is the only folder that can be reliably shared now. It is very much the exception. Probably for the best, keeping everything separate.

@flipotto and I decided a while ago that we were better off only using the iPad/OSC on the computer for Learn. We couldn't make it work with both and the BCR2000 doesn't have displays, meaning you couldn't see what you'd mapped.

Funkybot · 08-07-2023, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

@flipotto and I decided a while ago that we were better off only using the iPad/OSC on the computer for Learn. We couldn't make it worth with both and the BCR2000 doesn't have displays, meaning you couldn't see what you'd mapped.

Yeah, I'm a few days behind you guys there but getting there.

MixMonkey · 08-07-2023, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Yeah, I'm a few days behind you guys there but getting there.

Thanks for pointing out the bi-directional possibility

Without that, we wouldn't be able to use the Associated Zone buttons on the BCR2000. They would have to be like the FXMenu, only on the iPad.

Geoff Waddington · 08-07-2023, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

That didn't work here. Only moving that FX Zones folder made any difference. It's starting to look like this standalone FX Zones folder is the only folder that can be reliably shared now. It is very much the exception. Probably for the best, keeping everything separate.

@flipotto and I decided a while ago that we were better off only using the iPad/OSC on the computer for Learn. We couldn't make it work with both and the BCR2000 doesn't have displays, meaning you couldn't see what you'd mapped.

Sorry for the lack of presence, I've been busy rewiring my studio.

You are right on both counts.

It's to do with how CSI handles folders.

I don't see this as much of a limitation, given what the new Broadcast/Receive/Groups features bring to the table.

Even though you need to basically duplicate the "base" Zone structure, those Zones are by far the most stable, and need altering rarely.

We need to make sure we clearly state this new rule in the documentation.

On the Learn front, I'll see if I can add Surface info to the dialogs to make it clear your choice of Surface designated for Learn.

flipotto · 08-08-2023, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Thanks for pointing out the bi-directional possibility

Without that, we wouldn't be able to use the Associated Zone buttons on the BCR2000. They would have to be like the FXMenu, only on the iPad.

MM could you post a zip file with file/folder structure, please?

MixMonkey · 08-08-2023, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipotto

MM could you post a zip file with file/folder structure, please?

Ok, this is pretty much working now

There is one notable exception, though. I can't re-enter Learn mode from TouchOSC iPad when it is running on the computer (@127.0.0.1).

The initial Learn of a plugin works fine because it's activated from the dialog box that appears on the screen, but after that I can only re-enter Learn mode for a plugin by showing its GUI on the screen, turning a control and then pressing Learn on the iPad. The button on the computer TouchOSC iPad never works. Every other button on the computer TouchOSC iPad works correctly: Sends, Home, FXMenu etc. The computer TouchOSC iPad is the same TouchOSC file as the real iPad, same Zone files, same FX folder. I'm stumped

I've tried a setup that just has the computer iPad as a surface with the same results.

A few miscellaneous points:

i) When Learning a plugin for the first time, the dialog box will appear twice. You need to click Learn in the first box and Cancel in the second.

ii) It would be good if Modifiers could be restricted in their scope in the the same way as GoHome has been. This would allow Modifiers to only affect the Group they are activated within, leaving other Groups untouched.

iii) The BCR2000_Physical and BCR2000_iPad have to share the FXZones_BCR2000 folder in the CSI folder. The mirroring of controls won't work if you try to share an FX folder within one of the surface's Zone folders.

Funkybot · 08-08-2023, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

ii) It would be good if Modifiers could be restricted in their scope in the the same way as GoHome has been. This would allow Modifiers to only affect the Group they are activated within, leaving other Groups untouched.
.

Just to confirm: are you using "LocalModifiers" in the CSI.ini for each device then anticipating those to broadcast/receive within the group?

Sounds like a request for a ToggleShouldReceiveLocalModifiers action. Good call out!

flipotto · 08-08-2023, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Just to confirm: are you using "LocalModifiers" in the CSI.ini for each device then anticipating those to broadcast/receive within the group?

Sounds like a request for a ToggleShouldReceiveLocalModifiers action. Good call out!

MM, is what FB just said included in the zip, I don't see a csi.ini.

Funkybot · 08-08-2023, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

We need to make sure we clearly state this new rule in the documentation.

Will add that when the time comes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

On the Learn front, I'll see if I can add Surface info to the dialogs to make it clear your choice of Surface designated for Learn.

That would be very helpful.

One bug-like experience with the new features that relates to that dialog: if I have only 1 FX on a track, but accidentally GoFXSlot 4 instead of 1 (on the MFT, 4 is right below 1 so this happened last night): you get the 'Automap or Learn' dialog box even though there is no plugin on that FX slot. Might need some kind of check that says, "is there actually a plugin loaded in this slot? If no, do nothing." Just something to suppress the dialog where no FX are loaded in a given slot.

Funkybot · 08-08-2023, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipotto

MM, is what FB just said included in the zip, I don't see a csi.ini.

The CSI.ini is VERY user-specific. You have your own. Using MM's would just break things. But you can read more about it (including LocalModifiers) here:

https://github.com/GeoffAWaddington/...iini-breakdown

flipotto · 08-08-2023, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkybot

The CSI.ini is VERY user-specific. You have your own. Using MM's would just break things. But you can read more about it (including LocalModifiers) here:

https://github.com/GeoffAWaddington/...iini-breakdown

Here is mine before I try the newest exp build and before I use the dialog to point to the shared fx folder.

Code:

Version 3.0

MidiSurface "BCR2000" 40 38 
OSCSurface "iPad" 8002 9002 192.168.0.37
OSCSurface "PCscreen" 8003 9003 127.0.0.1

Page "HomePage" FollowTCP UseScrollLink UseScrollSynch
"BCR2000" 8 0 "MM_BCR2000.mst" "MM_BCR2000" "MM_BCR2000" 
"iPad" 8 0 "MM_iPad_BCR2000.ost" "MM_BCR2000" "MM_BCR2000" 
"PCscreen" 8 0 "MM_iPad_BCR2000.ost" "MM_BCR2000" "MM_BCR2000"

I don't think we/I have used LocalModifiers up to this point.

flipotto · 08-08-2023, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Ok, this is pretty much working now

There is one notable exception, though. I can't re-enter Learn mode from TouchOSC iPad when it is running on the computer (@127.0.0.1).

Same here.
Plugin labels not clearing for me on iPad, but do on pcscreenOsc

I have two plugins on a track, if I ipad fxmenu select and the first, some labels (ones that have been mapped) on iPad change to that plugin (unmapped param labels linger from previous plugin) and bcr + ipad control that plugin. However, pcscreenOsc does not switch with that plugin.
When I fxmenu select from pcosc, labels on pcosc change, however ipad and bcr don't follow. Not sure if that is clear?
bcr follows ipad but not pcosc. iPad and pcosc do not follow each other.
I have all three looking at FXZones_BCR2000

Code:

Version 3.0

MidiSurface "BCR2000" 40 38 
OSCSurface "iPad" 8002 9002 192.168.0.37
OSCSurface "PCscreen" 8003 9003 127.0.0.1

Page "HomePage" FollowTCP UseScrollLink UseScrollSynch
"BCR2000" 8 0 "MM_BCR2000.mst" "BCR2000_Physical" "FXZones_BCR2000" 
"iPad" 8 0 "MM_iPad_BCR2000.ost" "BCR2000_iPad" "FXZones_BCR2000" 
"PCscreen" 8 0 "MM_iPad_BCR2000.ost" "BCR2000_Computer" "FXZones_BCR2000"

Quote:

i) When Learning a plugin for the first time, the dialog box will appear twice. You need to click Learn in the first box and Cancel in the second.

I'm not getting a second dialog.

MixMonkey · 08-08-2023, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipotto

When I fxmenu select from pcosc, labels on pcosc change, however ipad and bcr don't follow.

Currently, the intention is that the computer OSC is not used at the same time as the iPad and BCR2000.

The iPad and BCR2000 follow each other and the controls are interoperable. This is thanks to the new Grouping arrangement.

I'll see what is possible regarding adding a third member to the Group, but I'd like to have the Learn button on the Computer OSC work first.

So, test with either the computer OSC or the iPad/BCR2000 combo, but not both.

EDIT: Also, button row R on the BCR2000 is also the FXMenu when you are in the Home Zone. So pressing a button row R button will work the same as pressing a button from the FXMenu on the iPad.

MixMonkey · 08-08-2023, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Just to confirm: are you using "LocalModifiers" in the CSI.ini for each device then anticipating those to broadcast/receive within the group?

No, I'm only using LocalModifiers on the C4s, where I want them to be independent of each other and all other surfaces.

Currently the only alternative is to have modifiers Broadcast to all surfaces not set to ToggleUseLocalModifiers. I'd like to restrict Receive of modifiers to members of a Group.

Funkybot · 08-08-2023, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

No, I'm only using LocalModifiers on the C4s, where I want them to be independent of each other and all other surfaces.

Currently the only alternative is to have modifiers Broadcast to all surfaces not set to ToggleUseLocalModifiers. I'd like to restrict Receive of modifiers to members of a Group.

Correct this if I'm wrong, but I'm reading that as:

1. You want LocalModifiers on the C4
2. You want to create a second "LocalModifier" group for the BCR-2000 broacast/receive setup
3. Other modifiers (MCU, XT1, XT2) should be global

If that's right, I think for #2, we'd either need a way to broadcast/receive localmodifiers within the broadcast group (what I was trying to explain earlier with the idea of a ToggleReceiveLocalModifiers action idea). Or we'd need some other way of accomplishing the same.

I was imagining a scenario where the BCR-2000 hardware has LocalModifiers on, the BCR-2000 iPad has LocalModifiers on, and then they'd both just happily broadcast and receive those to each other within that broadcast/receive group only.

MixMonkey · 08-08-2023, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Correct this if I'm wrong, but I'm reading that as:

1. You want LocalModifiers on the C4
2. You want to create a second "LocalModifier" group for the BCR-2000 broacast/receive setup
3. Other modifiers (MCU, XT1, XT2) should be global

If that's right, I think for #2, we'd either need a way to broadcast/receive localmodifiers within the broadcast group (what I was trying to explain earlier with the idea of a ToggleReceiveLocalModifiers action idea). Or we'd need some other way of accomplishing the same.

I was imagining a scenario where the BCR-2000 hardware has LocalModifiers on, the BCR-2000 iPad has LocalModifiers on, and then they'd both just happily broadcast and receive those to each other within that broadcast/receive group only.

1. Correct, and I have this. The C4s operate independently of each other wrt modifiers.

2. Correct, I want to create a "modifier Group". I'm not sure the "Local Modifier" terminology is helpful here, as it implies isolating a single surface, which isn't what we're trying to achieve.

3. The other modifiers (MCU, XT#1,2 and 3) form another Group and modifiers activated from the MCU should only affect that Group.

Funkybot · 08-08-2023, 09:35 AM

My initial thinking was: if you only had 1 BCR-2000 in that setup with the C4s and MCU+XTs, you'd just use LocalModifiers to do what you're looking for. Similarly, if you only had 1 BCR-2000 iPad tablet instead, with no hardware, you'd use LocalModifiers. The only difference is you have 2 of those surfaces and need those otherwise LocalModifiers to braodcast/receive. You're 100% right in that calling them local doesn't otherwise make sense though.

However it gets accomplished, or whatever it's called in the end, I agree it's a worthwhile request.

Freex · 08-08-2023, 02:18 PM

Finally got time to install the latest Exp

Is this a glitch?

So I have the Fabfilter stuff, and all was working fine, mapping to C4

Changed the name of the plugin in Reapers FXlist so that on screen disoplays wouldn't all read Fabfilter...
So for example FabFilter Pro-Q 3
I changed to FfProQ3

Didn't notice this happening with the old version (sorry could have been last official version. or even previous)

But CSI doesn't see the zone files for these, "Renamed FX" anymore.

A quick edit in the Zone changing the name
from "VST3: FabFilter Pro-Q 3 (Fabfilter)"
to "VST3: FfProQ3 (Fabfilter)"
solves the problem, but I didn't realise things had changed.

UNdark · 08-09-2023, 04:13 AM

HI Geoff thought you should know on my system (Catalina) With the EXP lib. that adds the Clear individual modifier commands,(6th August2024) I'm getting the fader reset jumping when switching zones. I don't have that when I re install the standard V3 lib...

MixMonkey · 08-09-2023, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNdark

HI Geoff thought you should know on my system (Catalina) With the EXP lib. that adds the Clear individual modifier commands,(6th August2024) I'm getting the fader reset jumping when switching zones. I don't have that when I re install the standard V3 lib...

I get this too. I'm hoping that we can get an anti-fader slam version when all the Grouping, Clearing etc has been properly sorted out.

MT4U · 08-09-2023, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

I get this too. I'm hoping that we can get an anti-fader slam version when all the Grouping, Clearing etc has been properly sorted out.

Same here.

Besides the return of the Shaking Faders, I noticed that the FX Menu does not span across grouped surfaces, but I believe Geoff announced that in one of the EXP uploads.

On the other hand, I noticed much faster loading times. My main machine is due for an update soon and with the heavy scripting I use, it makes it easy to measure some noticeable difference in loading time.

I will try to resume testing tonight.

Geoff Waddington · 08-09-2023, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freex

Finally got time to install the latest Exp

Is this a glitch?

So I have the Fabfilter stuff, and all was working fine, mapping to C4

Changed the name of the plugin in Reapers FXlist so that on screen disoplays wouldn't all read Fabfilter...
So for example FabFilter Pro-Q 3
I changed to FfProQ3

Didn't notice this happening with the old version (sorry could have been last official version. or even previous)

But CSI doesn't see the zone files for these, "Renamed FX" anymore.

A quick edit in the Zone changing the name
from "VST3: FabFilter Pro-Q 3 (Fabfilter)"
to "VST3: FfProQ3 (Fabfilter)"
solves the problem, but I didn't realise things had changed.

How did you generate the "Renamed FX" ?

Geoff Waddington · 08-09-2023, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNdark

HI Geoff thought you should know on my system (Catalina) With the EXP lib. that adds the Clear individual modifier commands,(6th August2024) I'm getting the fader reset jumping when switching zones. I don't have that when I re install the standard V3 lib...

Thanks, will investigate...

Geoff Waddington · 08-09-2023, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MT4U

Same here.

Besides the return of the Shaking Faders, I noticed that the FX Menu does not span across grouped surfaces, but I believe Geoff announced that in one of the EXP uploads.

On the other hand, I noticed much faster loading times. My main machine is due for an update soon and with the heavy scripting I use, it makes it easy to measure some noticeable difference in loading time.

I will try to resume testing tonight.

Yeah, the new Group feature will allow us to take CSI in interesting new directions, much discussion to follow

Freex · 08-09-2023, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

How did you generate the "Renamed FX" ?

So I was using an older version of CSI could still have been v2
Made my FXZones and all was well.
Started to get annoyed with Fabfilter as their naming convertion takes up most of the display space on the MCP with FabFilter... so when I had ProC ProR and ProG it started to get confusing.
Yes I could see my aliases on the C4 fine, but actual reaper MCP Display was awful.

So I changed the Names of the Plugins in the FXPlugin menu in repaer, Right click renameFX.

All was still fine and everything seemed to still work, or at least I hadn't noticed anything go wrong.

Then I changed CSI to the new Exp, all the FF showed up on my C4 FXMenu, but as soon as I pushed to splay one, the Window popped up "no zone" asking did I want to AutoGen/Learn/Cancel?

Obviously this feature wasn't there before, so I figured something must have changed.
Zone
I tried changing

Code:

Zone "VST: FabFilter Pro-Q 3 (FabFilter)" "FabQ3"

to

Code:

Zone "VST: FfProQ3 (FabFilter)" "FabQ3"

and that worked.

jacksoonbrowne · 08-09-2023, 09:24 PM

Hi all ControlSufaceIntegrationers

I will soon start testing fx mapping on my X32.

But first, I want to test it on my X-Touch.

Where can I find a resonable set of support files for the X-Touch.
The wiki link to support files does not yield much.

TIA

CodyWright · 08-09-2023, 10:51 PM

Hey!
I wanted to ask if CSI v3 had any sort of hierarchical mode like DrivenByMoss? This would be a game changer for me.

I also wanted to ask if you are able to map the faders and encoder knobs differently on an Xtouch for the FX parameters? This would be amazing.

For learn mode, the wiki says Press the GoAssociatedZone LearnFXParams button on your surface, unfortunately, I don't know where to find this button, I've tried to type "GoAssociatedZone LearnFXParams" for one of the function keys but that did not work.

Thank you!
-Cody

uksnowy · 08-10-2023, 03:09 AM

Hi,

Since I installed V3, I now have 'in-focus' VST stealing the controls and display on my iCON Pro G2. Although I know this is a valuable feature and has many workflow advantages. I have to confess that I am not mature enough in CSI config to take full advantage of this right now and I find in irritating. Is it possible to disable this somehow?

MixMonkey · 08-10-2023, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodyWright

Hey!
I wanted to ask if CSI v3 had any sort of hierarchical mode like DrivenByMoss? This would be a game changer for me.

I also wanted to ask if you are able to map the faders and encoder knobs differently on an Xtouch for the FX parameters? This would be amazing.

For learn mode, the wiki says Press the GoAssociatedZone LearnFXParams button on your surface, unfortunately, I don't know where to find this button, I've tried to type "GoAssociatedZone LearnFXParams" for one of the function keys but that did not work.

Thank you!
-Cody

Answered in the help thread here:https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=884

MixMonkey · 08-10-2023, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uksnowy

Hi,

Since I installed V3, I now have 'in-focus' VST stealing the controls and display on my iCON Pro G2. Although I know this is a valuable feature and has many workflow advantages. I have to confess that I am not mature enough in CSI config to take full advantage of this right now and I find in irritating. Is it possible to disable this somehow?

Answered in the help thread here: https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=885

CodyWright · 08-10-2023, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Answered in the help thread here:https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=884

Hey MixMonkey! Thank you for the direction. By Hierarchical mode, I mean being able to navigate the project based on project folders instead of just on what tracks are hidden because it keeps things very neat for me.

This is showcased at 7:26 on this video by reaperblog
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9KQu1ijrrs&t=933s

It doesn't show children of folders in the main track view, but selecting a folder and pressing it again lets you enter that folder, now showing all of the children for the folder and so on. You can repeat this with as many folders as you want. I was curious if there was anything like that for CSI just because it helps with my workflow in organization in mixing.

-Cody Wright

MixMonkey · 08-10-2023, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodyWright

Hey MixMonkey! Thank you for the direction. By Hierarchical mode, I mean being able to navigate the project based on project folders instead of just on what tracks are hidden because it keeps things very neat for me.

Answered in the Help thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=893

We're trying to keep this thread for discussion of CSI development and experimental feature troubleshooting

MixMonkey · 08-10-2023, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksoonbrowne

Hi all ControlSufaceIntegrationers

I will soon start testing fx mapping on my X32.

But first, I want to test it on my X-Touch.

Where can I find a resonable set of support files for the X-Touch.
The wiki link to support files does not yield much.

TIA

When you say "FXMapping", do you mean the new EXP build features or just FX mapping in general?

jacksoonbrowne · 08-10-2023, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

When you say "FXMapping", do you mean the new EXP build features or just FX mapping in general?

Hi MM,

Yes the lastest Exp build.

uksnowy · 08-11-2023, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Answered in the help thread here: https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=885

that is wonderful. thank you.

MixMonkey · 08-11-2023, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksoonbrowne

Hi MM,

Yes the lastest Exp build.

Here's my MCU Zone folder. Take a look at the relevant Zones for the new stuff: LearnFXParams, FXLayouts, SurfaceFXLayout.

In the Buttons Zone, F1 engages Learn mode (activates LearnFXParams.zon). In the LearnFXParams.zon, F2 is SaveLearnedFXParams and F3 is EraseLastTouchedControl. Obviously, these can re-assigned to suit your setup.

Geoff Waddington · 08-11-2023, 07:25 AM

Just a quick FYI for those interested in the SCE24, coding of CSI and the SCE24 firmware is coming along nicely, should have something preliminary soon, a week or two at most.

Geoff Waddington · 08-11-2023, 08:42 AM

New Exp build is up.

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/42044/CSI%20Exp.zip

Added Surface name to ChoseAutoMapOrLearn dialog.

Fix for slamming Faders.

Funkybot · 08-11-2023, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Just a quick FYI for those interested in the SCE24, coding of CSI and the SCE24 firmware is coming along nicely, should have something preliminary soon, a week or two at most.

Very excited for that. Thanks for digging in on that!