Reaticulate - articulation management for REAPER - 0.5.13 released (2024-02-19) - Page 7

tack · 08-20-2018, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Sun

This UACC SPEC, how generic is this implemented? I see no support for vocal-lib specific things there like choosing wovel.

It's somewhat generic but not that generic.

The basic guidance here is that if your patch has an articulation that maps onto UACC (e.g. longs, spiccato, pizz) then use the UACC program number, otherwise use whatever you want.

G-Sun · 08-20-2018, 08:32 AM

Thanks!

I need to use @channel
but I don't find any documentation examples.
Can you add an example on the doc-page?

tack · 08-20-2018, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Sun

I need to use @channel
but I don't find any documentation examples.
Can you add an example on the doc-page?

Doesn't this already cover it? Did you have something else in mind?

Or, if you want to send any event to a specific MIDI channel, just put @channel after the event type, e.g. note@3:42,127

G-Sun · 08-20-2018, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tack

Doesn't this already cover it? Did you have something else in mind?

There it was. Thanks!
Was missing the "o="

G-Sun · 08-20-2018, 09:04 AM

But, this seems wrong (my file):

Code:

o=@2 o=cc:20,1

What's the correct syntax?

and this also seems wrong:

Code:

o=@2/cc:20,1

tack · 08-20-2018, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Sun

But, this seems wrong (my file):

Code:

o=@2 o=cc:20,1

What's the correct syntax?

From the docs:

Quote:

Multiple output events are separated by a / (forward slash) where each individual output event roughly takes the form type@channel:arg1,arg2 (no whitespace allowed).

So you would need:

Code:

o=@2/cc:20,1

But note as written that CC will go to the default channel. If you actually want to send it to channel 2 and route subsequent events there, this is actually what you want:

Code:

o=cc@2:20,1

G-Sun · 08-20-2018, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tack

So you would need:

Code:

o=@2/cc:20,1

But note as written that CC will go to the default channel. If you actually want to send it to channel 2 and route subsequent events there, this is actually what you want:

Code:

o=cc@2:20,1

Thank you!
Got it working by both by setting source to ch2
and coded as above.
Will use setting source, as it seems more flexible.

G-Sun · 08-20-2018, 09:20 AM

Is the reabank-file limited to 128 Program lines articulations?
I got some errors on same numbering, although it should be different <LSB> and Bank name

Same error when different <MSB>

G-Sun · 08-20-2018, 09:32 AM

I seem to have some note-off-issues.
Some notes gets hanging
And articulation changes on some note offs

tack · 08-20-2018, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Sun

Got it working by both by setting source to ch2 and coded as above. Will use setting source, as it seems more flexible.

Source relates to where your originating MIDI events are expected to come in on. If you don't care about that then set Source to Omni. Setting the Destination channel to "Source" is fine (and what I'd do) if you're explicitly defining the target channels in the banks.

In other words with "o=cc@2:20,1" you can set the bank to Source=Omni and Target=Source no problem because you're dictating the target channel right in the articulation definition.

Or, if you wanted the bank itself to be agnostic to the target channel, you could choose not to define the target channel in the output events ("o=cc:20,1") and then use Source=Omni and Target=2.

Not sure which one makes sense for your case, it'd depend on the library. You'll feel it out I'm sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Sun

Is the reabank-file limited to 128 Program lines articulations?
I got some errors on same numbering, although it should be different <LSB> and Bank name

Right, the warning you're talking about is probably because you have conflicting program numbers between multiple banks loaded in on the same track?

This conflict happens when you have the same program numbers on the same source channels. If you have two banks, both defining e.g. program 1, and both set to the same Source channel (whether Omni or some specific number), the way Reaticulate works right now it can't differentiate between them, because it only looks at the program numbers and not the bank select events that precedes it.

Right now the workaround is to use different source channels for the banks. This means your performance MIDI needs to be on different source channels.

Addressing this properly requires some pretty drastic design changes unfortunately.

tack · 08-20-2018, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Sun

I seem to have some note-off-issues.
Some notes gets hanging
And articulation changes on some note offs

Reaticulate's anti note hanging is pretty good. This will come down to the specifics of what you're doing. I can't answer this without seeing the banks and the input MIDI.

At this point it may be better to take to email. Reach out to tack@urandom.ca. I can followup in a few hours.

G-Sun · 08-20-2018, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tack

Source relates to where your originating MIDI events are expected to come in on. If you don't care about that then set Source to Omni. Setting the Destination channel to "Source" is fine (and what I'd do) if you're explicitly defining the target channels in the banks.

Sorry, meant destination.

G-Sun · 08-20-2018, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Sun

And articulation changes on some note offs

Fixed. Had wrong cc-lane open. Didn't see some entries.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tack

Reaticulate's anti note hanging is pretty good. This will come down to the specifics of what you're doing. I can't answer this without seeing the banks and the input MIDI.

At this point it may be better to take to email. Reach out to tack@urandom.ca. I can followup in a few hours.

Thanks!
I'll look into it myself first. The library is a little new to me, so could be another cause.

Next is getting some toggle-switches to work.

I seem to write as I go here,
so it's sometimes asking first, then looking closer at the docs

G-Sun · 08-20-2018, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tack

Right, the warning you're talking about is probably because you have conflicting program numbers between multiple banks loaded in on the same track?

Thanks! Now I'm aware of how it works

G-Sun · 08-20-2018, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Sun

I seem to have some note-off-issues.
Some notes gets hanging

This seems non-related to reaticulate. Disabled js and script and still the issue.
But, if it gets a problem I will see if your script allows a fix

G-Sun · 08-21-2018, 05:57 AM

For toggles-switches: Can I assign note-on and note-off message?
Or do I then need 2 entries, one for on, another for off.
(It's a legato-switch)

G-Sun · 08-21-2018, 06:16 AM

I'm looking for the factory reabank files
as I need to see how it's coded.
This: Reaticulate-tmp29.reabank ?
It doesen't have the expected markup.

Edit: Found it under Scripts

G-Sun · 08-21-2018, 06:21 AM

Is there no way to comment in the bank-files now?

tack · 08-21-2018, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Sun

For toggles-switches: Can I assign note-on and note-off message?
Or do I then need 2 entries, one for on, another for off.
(It's a legato-switch)

No, a toggle sends the same MIDI event each time you trigger it, it just changes its visual state in the UI. An example of this is the Bohemian violin's chord on/off toggle, where you send the same note to toggle it on and off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Sun

Is there no way to comment in the bank-files now?

Yes, comment the normal way.

Code:

// comment

In the -tmp file the markup (and maybe comments) get stripped but the -tmp file isn't meant to be consumed by anything other than Reaper directly. Humans will edit the Reaticulate.reabank file.

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Sun

I'm looking for the factory reabank files
as I need to see how it's coded. [...] Edit: Found it under Scripts

And in my own defense, it's documented at the top of the bank docs where it says "Factory banks"

G-Sun · 08-21-2018, 07:42 AM

Thank you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by tack

And in my own defense, it's documented at the top of the bank docs where it says "Factory banks"

My bad, sorry

G-Sun · 08-21-2018, 07:50 AM

FR: Compact/expand bank
FR: Group programs, and compact/expand

I have a Soprano Voice like this
Sustains ch1
True legato ch2
Staccato ch3

Code:

//! g="Soundiron/Voices of Rapture/Soprano" n="VoR Soprano Sustains Vowels"
Bank 31 1 VoR - Soprano - Sustains - Wovels
//! c=long i=AaP o=cc:20,0
20  Aa P
//! c=long i=AF o=cc:20,6
21  Aa f
//! c=long i=EP o=cc:20,12
22  Ee p
//! c=long i=EF o=cc:20,18
23  Ee f
//! c=long i=EhP o=cc:20,24
24  Eh p
//! c=long i=EhF o=cc:20,30
25  Eh f
//! c=long i=Mm o=cc:20,36
26  Mm
//! c=long i=OhP o=cc:20,42
27  Oh p
//! c=long i=OhF o=cc:20,48
28  Oh f
//! c=long i=OoP o=cc:20,54
29  Oo p
//! c=long i=OoF o=cc:20,60
30  Oo f

//! c=legato  i=Legato_on g=2 o=cc:30,124
70 Lagato on
//! c=legato  i=Legato_off g=2 o=cc:30,0
71 Lagato off

//--------------------------------------------------------------------
//! g="Soundiron/Voices of Rapture/Soprano" n="VoR Soprano Sustains Phrases"
Bank 31 2 VoR - Soprano - Sustains - Phrases
//! c=long i=Ab inito o=cc:20,66
31  Ab inito
//! c=long i=Aduramus_Te o=cc:20,72
32  Aduramus Te
//! c=long i=Agnus_Dei o=cc:20,75
33  Agnus Dei
//! c=long i=Amor_Aeternus o=cc:20,82
34  Amor Aeternus
//! c=long i=Deum o=cc:20,89
35  Deum
//! c=long i=Eleison o=cc:20,95
36  Eleison
//! c=long i=Hallaluja o=cc:20,101
37  Hallaluja
//! c=long i=Kyrie o=cc:20,106
38  Kyrie
//! c=long i=Metuo_Somnus o=cc:20,112
39  Metuo Somnus
//! c=long i=Noctem o=cc:20,118
40  Noctem
//! c=long i=Spiritu o=cc:20,124
41  Spiritu
//! c=long i=Vae Victis o=cc:20,127
42  Vae Victis

//! c=legato  i=Legato_on g=2 o=cc:30,124
75 Lagato on
//! c=legato  i=Legato_off g=2 o=cc:30,0
76 Lagato off


//-------------------------------------------------------------------
//! g="Soundiron/Voices of Rapture/Soprano" n="VoR Soprano True legato"
Bank 31 3 VoR - Soprano - True legato
//! c=short-light i=True Legato Aa o=cc:20,1
50 Aa
//! c=short-light i=Oo o=cc:20,124
51 Oo

//! c=legato  i=Legato_on g=3 o=cc:30,124
80 Lagato on
//! c=legato  i=Legato_off g=3 o=cc:30,0
81 Lagato off

//-------------------------------------------------------------------
//! g="Soundiron/Voices of Rapture/Soprano" n="VoR Soprano Staccato"
Bank 31 4 VoR - Soprano - Staccato
//! c=short-light i=Aa o=cc:20,10
60 Aa
//! c=short i=Ee o=cc:20,32
61 Ee
//! c=short i=Eh Aa o=cc:20,56
62 Eh
//! c=short i=Mm o=cc:20,78
63 Mm
//! c=short i=Oh o=cc:20,100
64 Oh
//! c=short i=Oo o=cc:20,127
65 Oo

Here I've split up the sustains in 2 banks Vowels and Phrases
I would prefer to group the bank with a subset of Vovels
and another with Phrases. Then being able to compact eg. Phrases (as those are not used so much.
This is also for not doubling programs like 70-76

G-Sun · 08-21-2018, 07:52 AM

btw: I'm so far very impressed,
and although it takes some time programming all the articulations,
I really see myself using this for must of my vsti libraries

G-Sun · 08-21-2018, 08:49 AM

One issue.
For this:

Code:

//! g="Soundiron/Voices of Rapture/Soprano" n="VoR Soprano True legato"
Bank 31 3 VoR - Soprano - True legato
//! c=short-light i=True Legato Aa o=cc:20,1
50 Aa (TL)
//! c=short-light i=Oo o=cc:20,124
51 Oo (TL)

//! c=legato  i=Legato_on g=3 o=cc:30,124
80 Lagato on (TL)
//! c=legato  i=Legato_off g=3 o=cc:30,0
81 Lagato off (TL)

If I in ME set
#1 50 Aa
then
#2 80/81 legato-change
then
#3 51 Oo

the script is not chasing the 50 Aa after #2
How do I set this right?

tack · 08-21-2018, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Sun

FR: Compact/expand bank
FR: Group programs, and compact/expand

Ok, will think about it for a future release.

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Sun

If I in ME set
#1 50 Aa
then
#2 80/81 legato-change
then
#3 51 Oo

the script is not chasing the 50 Aa after #2
How do I set this right?

Unfortunately this isn't something I can fix. Reaper doesn't understand that some of the earlier program changes events need to be chased. Reaticulate introduces a notion of a program group but Reaper itself doesn't know anything about it.

A workaround is to move the articulations on the other group to their own bank and then set the Source Channel to like 16 or something. Because those program changes are on another channel (16 in that case), Reaper will chase them. And then Reaticulate will take care of translating them to the appropriate destination channel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Sun

btw: I'm so far very impressed,
and although it takes some time programming all the articulations

Thanks!

G-Sun · 08-22-2018, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tack

Unfortunately this isn't something I can fix. Reaper doesn't understand that some of the earlier program changes events need to be chased. Reaticulate introduces a notion of a program group but Reaper itself doesn't know anything about it.

A workaround is to move the articulations on the other group to their own bank and then set the Source Channel to like 16 or something. Because those program changes are on another channel (16 in that case), Reaper will chase them. And then Reaticulate will take care of translating them to the appropriate destination channel.

Ok, thanks for the info!
I'll resolve to manual chasing then I think.

daeavelwyn · 08-31-2018, 01:59 PM

Hi,

I'm trying to get the same syntax coloration you got (using Visual Studio Code as you mentionned in a previous post), but can't have the same as your in the video, how can I do ?

Or, in a more general way, how can I debug my syntax because reaticulate suddenly change its behaviour and it should become from a syntax problem, but I can't figure where in my quite long reabank file !

and finaly (last but no least), once more, really thanks for this plugins !

tack · 08-31-2018, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daeavelwyn

I'm trying to get the same syntax coloration you got (using Visual Studio Code as you mentionned in a previous post), but can't have the same as your in the video, how can I do ?

I just set the file type (bottom right corner) to Go. Reabank files are obviously not Go, so it's really just providing highlighting for comments and numerics. Kind of a cheat, really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by daeavelwyn

Or, in a more general way, how can I debug my syntax because reaticulate suddenly change its behaviour and it should become from a syntax problem, but I can't figure where in my quite long reabank file !

Eventually the GUI editor will prevent you from making syntactical errors. Knowing what sort of behaviour you're running into might help point in the right direction. You could also PM me your full bank file if you'd like and I can take a look.

Quote:

Originally Posted by daeavelwyn

and finaly (last but no least), once more, really thanks for this plugins !

You're very welcome! I'm happy to see people benefiting from it.

kotsaris · 09-17-2018, 12:38 PM

Hi,
after the last development of storyteller giving OTR by donation it becomes much easier for us to try his system.
I tried for a while to learn how it is working.So far I'm amazed by it.It is very different than my own workflow,but works wonders!
One consideration is that the track templates we made for Reaticulate do not work with the extra functions of OTR and need conversion.
I'd love it if we can exchange solutions for better integration of both systems.

tack · 09-18-2018, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kotsaris

One consideration is that the track templates we made for Reaticulate do not work with the extra functions of OTR and need conversion.

I don't know OTR well enough (yet) to know what OTR functions wouldn't work, but ultimately all Reaticulate cares about is having its FX at the top of the chain. That's the only secret sauce related to the track that would need to be preserved.

Elsewhere @storyteller suggested that renaming your previous track templates (that have Reaticulate's FX instance) with the OTR prefix/suffix naming conventions might be all that's needed to operate within OTR's workflow.

Maybe give that a try, and between storyteller and me we should be able to sort out how to best adapt your current templates.

kotsaris · 09-18-2018, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tack

Maybe give that a try, and between storyteller and me we should be able to sort out how to best adapt your current templates.

Thanks for the answer tack!
I'll try what you suggest by renaming prefixes and see how it works.
By the way,as extra functions I was meaning the toggling of certain groups and the routing of them to use through the toolbars.

krahosk · 09-26-2018, 12:51 PM

Would the new MIDI implementations "MPE" (Multidimensional Polyphonic Expression) help and simplify expression mapping?

https://www.midi.org/articles-old/mi...expression-mpe

https://www.midi.org/downloads?task=...ethod=download

pcartwright · 09-26-2018, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krahosk

Would the new MIDI implementations "MPE" (Multidimensional Polyphonic Expression) help and simplify expression mapping?

https://www.midi.org/articles-old/mi...expression-mpe

I doubt it. There would have to be consensus about what MIDI messages triggered which articulation by sound/VSTi library developers. Articulation mapping is less about MIDI standards and more about how synths and samplers use those standards.

extall · 10-10-2018, 06:18 AM

Hey, tack, finally made it to the forums to congratulate you on the release of Reaticulate, splendid piece of software!

I do have a few items I'd like to clarify. Most interesting of which is this: suppose we have a MIDI item in Reaper, and its first MIDI note is touching the left boundary of the item. How can one issue an articulation change in the beginning of the item? The change is done via keyswitches and must come *before* the actual note is triggered, so aligning the PC message with the note will not work. What is the best solution for this? Slightly moving the MIDI-ON of the actual note to the right? Or extending the MIDI item to the left? (The latter approach is extremely annoying since it disrupts the usual copy-paste workflow.) I searched through this thread, but couldn't find a relevant comment.

Second, I am working with EW Symphonic Orchestra and currently moving to their Hollywood series. For the former, I've put together a Reaticulate bank. It's a WIP, since some instruments are not included. Anyone interested in this? Seems like EW products are not super favored, I wonder why. Anyhow, that's what I can offer.

Finally, how is the situation with the GUI for the bank editor? Any help needed? I've been playing with PyQt5 lately and I think it would be feasible to come up with an app using Python and PyQt5, the downside of which would be the download size of the binaries *and* that it would not be a part of Reaper but rather an external app. Any thoughts?

_Stevie_ · 10-10-2018, 07:31 AM

Great points extall, I had the exact same thoughts and would like to know this as well.

Furthermore, I would like to know what the best approach is to manually insert articulation changes.
Is there a fast way to achieve this?

@extall: would be interested in the EW stuff! I'm using EW Gold and Hollywood Strings and Brass.

chip mcdonald · 10-10-2018, 08:15 AM

This looks promising, but could one list a few VSTis that it integrates well with?

tack · 10-10-2018, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chip mcdonald

This looks promising, but could one list a few VSTis that it integrates well with?

Reaticulate should work well with just about anything. My template personally is mostly Spitfire, but ultimately it can emit almost any kind of MIDI you'd need to trigger articulations, and/or route to any channel your patches are listening on.

tack · 10-10-2018, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by extall

What is the best solution for this? Slightly moving the MIDI-ON of the actual note to the right? Or extending the MIDI item to the left? (The latter approach is extremely annoying since it disrupts the usual copy-paste workflow.)

The note needs to start when the note needs to start, so your only other option is to have the program change happen sooner. My MIDI items tend to start a quarter note before the MIDI items and I use that beat to put CC events and articulation changes that need to happen ahead of the note.

Quote:

Originally Posted by extall

Finally, how is the situation with the GUI for the bank editor? Any help needed? I've been playing with PyQt5 lately and I think it would be feasible to come up with an app using Python and PyQt5, the downside of which would be the download size of the binaries *and* that it would not be a part of Reaper but rather an external app. Any thoughts?

The editor is coming slowly but surely, although not as fast as I'd just just because, like everyone else, I suffer from the usual life obligations combined with the inevitable squirrel moments.

Another user offered to help with exactly the same idea (PyQt) but I'm not really keen on the idea for the reasons you mentioned (additional dependencies) plus it couldn't perform some of the seamless integrations I'd eventually like to introduce (to improve testing in particular).

I've completed most of the GUI code overhauling I needed to do in order to support the type of UI I wanted to provide, and I have a basic functioning sketch of the interface. Now I just need to finish it.

thevisi0nary · 10-10-2018, 05:17 PM

Tack do you think you could come up with a sort of compressor I can insert (prefader) on my thought process track? I've always had major issues with squirrel syndrome as well.

=p

extall · 10-12-2018, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Stevie_

@extall: would be interested in the EW stuff! I'm using EW Gold and Hollywood Strings and Brass.

I attach the zipped .reabank file to this message. Once again, it doesn't contain the articulations for all patches, but what's already there should be fully functional.

_Stevie_ · 10-12-2018, 06:25 AM

Awesome, thanks a bunch extall!