Control Surface Integration (CSI) Technical Feature Discussion

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Don't know if we already discussed this, but you also need the new CSI folder -- don't forget to back up anything you want to keep, before clobbering it

OK, looks like you are running the same version of EuControl 19.12.1.build 23.

The difference is that you are on Windows...

Can't test Windows here, but...

Let's try this order:

PreReq -- new EuCon dll and new CSI dll in appropriate place.

Install CSI, but not EuCon yet.

Now install the EuCon dll.

Now back to CSI to add EuCon.

Doubt it will matter, but that's the way it was installed here and it works fine (albeit on Mac).

The Zone already existing message is indicative of a duplicate .zon file -- did you change the EuCon Zone folder at all ?

[Edit] Forgot to mention, I've had EuControl 19.12.1 crash just sitting there -- no Reaper, just crashes right from the desktop.

I've also had it crash a couple of times on Reaper load, solution was to relaunch EuControl, and reload Reaper.

Followed those steps. Now the Artist Mix updates to show 8 channels of Pan LED's in the display with the pans all pointing hard left. Otherwise, nothing else happens on the Artist Mix itself. The faders don't engage, the channel names for the current project don't appear, nothing happens other than pan displays.

The Learn Mode does pick up input from the surface. When I move something on the surface it shows things like "In -> Eucon FaderDB1 -39.2500000" and "In -> EuCon FaderTouch 0.000000" in the ReaScript console output window, but there are no widgets in the left-hand portion of the Learn screen, no zones at the bottom, and no action list on the right. It's like no Zones or Widgets exist.

And to answer your question from earlier: I didn't mess with the Eucon zone folder, I realized the duplicate Send8 thing from earlier was when I loaded my old default configuration to try to get back to where I was.

Let me know if there's anything else you want me to try or help test. I'm going to put EuCon on hold for the time being and go back to my MFTwister mapping.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Followed those steps. Now the Artist Mix updates to show 8 channels of Pan LED's in the display with the pans all pointing hard left. Otherwise, nothing else happens on the Artist Mix itself. The faders don't engage, the channel names for the current project don't appear, nothing happens other than pan displays.

The Learn Mode does pick up input from the surface. When I move something on the surface it shows things like "In -> Eucon FaderDB1 -39.2500000" and "In -> EuCon FaderTouch 0.000000" in the ReaScript console output window, but there are no widgets in the left-hand portion of the Learn screen, no zones at the bottom, and no action list on the right. It's like no Zones or Widgets exist.

And to answer your question from earlier: I didn't mess with the Eucon zone folder, I realized the duplicate Send8 thing from earlier was when I loaded my old default configuration to try to get back to where I was.

Let me know if there's anything else you want me to try or help test. I'm going to put EuCon on hold for the time being and go back to my MFTwister mapping.

Thanks for all the testing !!

Good news -- You have EuCon->CSI communication.

Looks like a problem with the Zone folder/files.

When you have time could you post the CSI.ini and Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon contents ?

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Thanks for all the testing !!

Good news -- You have EuCon->CSI communication.

Looks like a problem with the Zone folder/files.

When you have time could you post the CSI.ini and Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon contents ?

Here you go...

CSI.ini

Page "HomePage" FollowMCP NoSynchPages UseScrollLink NoTrackColoring 39 255 45
EuConSurface "EuCon" 1 8 "EuCon" NoZoneLink 8 16 0

Zone folder attached.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Here you go...

CSI.ini

Page "HomePage" FollowMCP NoSynchPages UseScrollLink NoTrackColoring 39 255 45
EuConSurface "EuCon" 1 8 "EuCon" NoZoneLink 8 16 0

Zone folder attached.

All looks good.

Seems we have a Windows EuCon Zone load mystery.

Anyone who can, please join in and we'll get this sorted -- need Mac and Windows EuCon users...

[Funkybot]

Here's my MIDI Fighter Twister CSI template. This includes the MFTwister template you'll need to load onto the hardware via the MIDI Fighter Utility, along with the CSI files, and setup/usage instructions.

If you have any bugs, feedback, suggestions, improvements, please let me know! I'm really happy with how well this turned out but I'm open to further improvements.

[Geoff Waddington]

Ok, get ready for a slight .zon file change...

Because of some internal improvements that will provide better nesting of Zones, we will make a small file change.

Right now we state Zones in "top down" order:

Zone Home
    IncludedZones
        Buttons
        Channel|1-8
    IncludedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd

We then describe the Buttons and Channel Zones.

Home doesn't know yet what Buttons and Channels actually look like, but trusts they will be defined in detail later.

This is called forward referencing and is cool, but has some drawbacks too.

We like to keep things as loose as possible in CSI land but every so often we have to tighten a bit.

So, new constraint:

Zone definitions MUST precede their mention as an included Zone.

Buttons and the Channels MUST now be defined BEFORE Home -- since Home includes Buttons and the Channels.

Pretty simple change -- moving a few blocks around.

I discovered this while working on nested Zones -- found out you can't

There will also be a new Navigator -- ParentNavigator.

ParentNavigator means the Zone gets its Navigation from the Parent Zone.

One nice piece of syntactic sugar as well as a bit of elegance is the removal of the redundant Channel|1-8 in the Home Included Zone -- Channel will do fine there since the size has been stated earlier in the file "Zone Channel|1-8"


[Edit] -- Haha -- never mind, we can keep the same syntax and still achieve this

[RobinGShore]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

New builds are up.

Yup, time for an early EuCon "Shakedown cruise"

For EuCon, you need dlls/dylibs from both links in the sig below.

Then, just fire up CSI config, and set up your EuCon -- accept defaults at first if you are not sure.

Channels, Pan and Transport should work fine.

Sends/Auxes are totally broken, but you can push Auxes and see something on the displays.

Any brave souls out there ?

Hey Geoff, I'm on a Mac and I can't get this working at all. I moved your old Eucon.dylib out of the user plugins folder, then downloaded your latest CSI and Eucon files and moved them to the right directories, but nothing happens when I try to use it, there doesn't seem to be any communication between Reaper/CSI and Eucontrol. I can get CSI to work with a midi controller, just not Eucon. Here's a pic of my settings, is there something I might be missing here?

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by RobinGShore

Hey Geoff, I'm on a Mac and I can't get this working at all. I moved your old Eucon.dylib out of the user plugins folder, then downloaded your latest CSI and Eucon files and moved them to the right directories, but nothing happens when I try to use it, there doesn't seem to be any communication between Reaper/CSI and Eucontrol. I can get CSI to work with a midi controller, just not Eucon. Here's a pic of my settings, is there something I might be missing here?

Yes, one thing

You must also install EuCon in the usual way, and it must be after CSI.

[DrTT]

Hello Geoff,

first of all thanks for your effort!

I may be too dumb for the CSI installation, but I did not succeed. I have to admit that Reaper is installed in a non-standard directory (not in "Program Files"), so this might be the reason for failure. But so far that never proved to be critical.

I followed the instructions in the "CSI Readme.pdf" and my approach - it is a Windows 10 platform with 64 bit Reaper - was:

• Download and unpack the CSI zip file.
• Copy CSI folder into \pathToReaper.
• Copy reaper_csurf_integrator64.dll into \pathToReaper\UserPlugins (I also tried "\pathToReaper\Plugins").
• Also installed Visual C++ 2017 64bit runtime (just in case).
• Restarted Reaper and tried to find "Control Surface Integrator".

Is the Eucon installation required or optional? If Eucon were required, this should be noted in the Readme.

Or is there some other problem?

Best regards,
DrTT

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by DrTT

Hello Geoff,

first of all thanks for your effort!

I may be too dumb for the CSI installation, but I did not succeed. I have to admit that Reaper is installed in a non-standard directory (not in "Program Files"), so this might be the reason for failure. But so far that never proved to be critical.

I followed the instructions in the "CSI Readme.pdf" and my approach - it is a Windows 10 platform with 64 bit Reaper - was:

• Download and unpack the CSI zip file.
• Copy CSI folder into \pathToReaper.
• Copy reaper_csurf_integrator64.dll into \pathToReaper\UserPlugins (I also tried "\pathToReaper\Plugins").
• Also installed Visual C++ 2017 64bit runtime (just in case).
• Restarted Reaper and tried to find "Control Surface Integrator".

Is the Eucon installation required or optional? If Eucon were required, this should be noted in the Readme.

Or is there some other problem?

Best regards,
DrTT

What surface are you trying to install ?

If EuCon, this is a "shakedown cruise" and is not in any docs yet, we're still trying to figure out what install method works best

The CSI folder must be in Reaper's resource path -- did you run the Show Reaper Resource Path Action ?

You must also install CSI before EuCon.

Hope this helps -- if not -- get back and we'll get this sorted.

[DrTT]

Hello Geoff,

you wrote:

What surface are you trying to install ?

I am trying to connect a Behringer X-Touch One. Mackie Control integration works, but not all buttons are available and the configuration is unclear. But I am quite able to edit some MST file for the configuration of this controller, so my hope is that CSI might be easier to handle.

So - as far as I understand - I do not need Eucon, but only CSI.

The CSI folder must be in Reaper's resource path -- did you run the Show Reaper Resource Path Action ?

Yes, this is the \pathToReaper, and it is also where I expect Reaper to be installed.

Best regards,
DrTT

[WaveTrans]

Originally Posted by DrTT

Hello Geoff,

you wrote:


I am trying to connect a Behringer X-Touch One. Mackie Control integration works, but not all buttons are available and the configuration is unclear. But I am quite able to edit some MST file for the configuration of this controller, so my hope is that CSI might be easier to handle.

So - as far as I understand - I do not need Eucon, but only CSI.


Yes, this is the \pathToReaper, and it is also where I expect Reaper to be installed.

Best regards,
DrTT

I tested the X-touch one a couple of months ago and it worked even with the CSI prealpha; should be working fine with the current version.

Copy the CSI folder to resource path and the .dll into the Reaper plugins folder as per standard CSI set up.
Now put the x touch into MCU mode and then open reaper.
when you add a csi page choose mcu.mst and mcu.zon for a start. This should already bring most functions to the x-touch, like transport; don´t forget to check th box reaper follows... when setting up csi.

What may not work is the jogwheel. You can try jogwheel hack which you find a couple of pages backwards from here in the thread ( or in the Icon Nano zone/mst in the csi folder)

After you got basic functions through use of mcu.mst/.zon files you can edit both files to your needs. Since the xtouch one is a single fader controller like the Icon Platform Nano, you may want to have a look at the icon nano .mst and .zon files; you find suggestions for working sends and fxplugins there.

For mapping the X-touch: If you run the reaper action Reaper 65535, the learn window opens. Check in the left hand downward corner "show input from Surfaces" and close the window. Now if you hit a button on the controller, a window opens displaying the midi code sent.
As far as i remember, the buttons were all MCU standard midi codes.

good luck.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by WaveTrans

Hi, after working with the Nano for a while, I find that toggling focused FX (using FocusedFXNavigator in the FX zones) does not always work.

The FXmenu opens upon pressing the Plugin button, but very often, focusing on the FX does not happen (or the mapping of the widgets to the focused FX does not work?).

If not working, I couldn´t find a reliable way to reconstitute the function; sometimes changing the track works, but not always. Restarting works most of the times, sometimes reloading of CSI does the trick. In bad cases, I have to restart two or three times before FX focus works again. Tested it with various projects, but it´s always the same behaviour.

Any advice why this happens or what to do is appreciated.

I did ReaVerb and ReaVerbate FX zones.
Please find them in the attachment.
I also attach my updated full Icon Nano set, including FX zones.

Did you manage to solve your FocusedFX issues?

I have to say I found the Focused method to be a little unreliable/unpredictable, so I swapped to the FXMenu/SelectedTrackNavigator method, which has been rock solid.

[Funkybot]

Curious if you tried a "ToggleFocusedFX" widget and if that worked for you. I was previously reserving a button on my MFT for "GoZone Home" and it seemed like CSI would get lost (or perhaps more likely: I was lost in setup) when switching from FocusedFX to Home and back. But when I replaced the action on that particular widget with ToggleFocusedFX, it seemed to do the trick and let me bounce back and forth between my Home and FocusedFX zones.

I haven't experimented with the FxMenu approach at all.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Curious if you tried a "ToggleFocusedFX" widget and if that worked for you. I was previously reserving a button on my MFT for "GoZone Home" and it seemed like CSI would get lost (or perhaps more likely: I was lost in setup) when switching from FocusedFX to Home and back. But when I replaced the action on that particular widget with ToggleFocusedFX, it seemed to do the trick and let me bounce back and forth between my Home and FocusedFX zones.

I haven't experimented with the FxMenu approach at all.

I didn't try a "ToggleFocusedFX" button, mine was always "Auto Map Focused FX", as I have a separate surface for FX Params and Sends.

The problem seems to come less from CSI than from reliably having the FX "focus" when it's window appears. The only fool-proof method I found was to click on the FX name in the FX chain window, but having to click on a window rather defeats the purpose of having a control surface

The FXMenu works perfectly however I have "Auto Map FX menu" switched on and the FX names map across the bottom row displays on the separate surface. Pressing a push encoder under the FX name maps the parameters to the surface. I have a button mapped to "Toggle FX Menu" to return to the menu from the surface, although pressing the channel select button does the same thing.

Pretty much the ideal workflow for me.

[RobinGShore]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Yes, one thing

You must also install EuCon in the usual way, and it must be after CSI.

*facepalm*

Of course. I saw that you had written this in another post but I didn't realize it meant I still had to add Eucon in the Reaper Control Surface preferences. I thought installing just meant dragging the dylib file into the user plugins folder.

Anyways, still not working. When I add Eucon to the control surface list, Reaper quits immediately without generating a crash log.

[DrTT]

Dear all,

Copy the CSI folder to resource path and the .dll into the Reaper plugins folder as per standard CSI set up.

As mentioned in detail in my first post https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=2223564 I did all of the above. I do not know whether the Reaper installation in a non-default location might be problematic, but so far I did not a bit have any problems with any other plugins for Reaper.

The only place where I did something not according to the installation instructions
("64bit: Put reaper_csurf_integrator64.dll in Program Files\Reaper 4 (x64)\Plugins") was when putting this file into \pathToReaper\UserPlugins or
\pathToReaper\Plugins. Both approaches were not successful.

My problem with CSI is not that I do not know what to do in principle for some controller, but that the CSI entry does not at all occur in the "Controller/OSC/Web" preferences in Reaper. So in my opinion this has nothing to do with the controller itself.

Now put the x touch into MCU mode and then open reaper.

The X touch works acceptably with MCU mode in Reaper, so this is not the problem.

Best regards,
DrTT

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by RobinGShore

*facepalm*

Of course. I saw that you had written this in another post but I didn't realize it meant I still had to add Eucon in the Reaper Control Surface preferences. I thought installing just meant dragging the dylib file into the user plugins folder.

Anyways, still not working. When I add Eucon to the control surface list, Reaper quits immediately without generating a crash log.

If you want to continue troubleshooting, try following these steps (this got me closest in Windows):

1. Remove all control surfaces from your Reaper (you may want to Export your Configuration just in case you need to get back to where you were before), including CSI. This is just to start fresh to make sure there aren't any conflicts or anything.

2. Close Reaper.

3. Important: if you had Geoff's old Eucon adapter, find and remove those files from your Reaper\Plugins folder. If you're not sure which are old and which are new, remove anything in that folder with eucon in the file name and then, afterwards, reinstall the new .dll/lib only. So now, you should only have the new Eucon files in the plugin folder. Be sure your CSI folders are properly installed too.

4. Now, relaunch Reaper.

5. Go to Preferences -> Control/OSC/Web. Click Add, select Control Surface Integrator but do NOT add a Eucon surface here yet. Click ok to close the window. This should put you back on the Control/OSC/Web Preferences screen.

6. Now, while still on the Control/OSC/Web screen, click Add again. Now select Eucon from the dropdown. Click OK to return that screen.

7. Now highlight the Control Surface Integrator entry you created in step 5. Click Edit. Click the "Add Eucon" button. Select all the default options and click ok to commit the changes and return to Reaper.

8. Close and restart Reaper.

9. Load a project.

Does it work now? Did it crash anywhere? If so, at which step? Let's say it still doesn't work but it didn't crash either...

10. Open the Actions List and search for "No-op." Run that action, which opens the CSI Learn window.

11. In this screen, click the checkbox to show input from the surface (make sure you can see the input screen, on Windows at least it tends to open behind the main window) then move something on your Eucon controller.

Does anything appear in the Input monitor? What about the Learn screen?

[AbbeH]

Originally Posted by DrTT

...

My problem with CSI is not that I do not know what to do in principle for some controller, but that the CSI entry does not at all occur in the "Controller/OSC/Web" preferences in Reaper. So in my opinion this has nothing to do with the controller itself.



The X touch works acceptably with MCU mode in Reaper, so this is not the problem.

Best regards,
DrTT

Hi! In your first post it isn't clear if you put the CSI folder in the Reaper resource folder, or in the regular installation folder. The resource folder is normally at C:\Users\[username]\AppData\Roaming\REAPER and you will find it by clicking Options -> "Show REAPER resource path in explorer/finder...".

However, I have the same problem. I just updated reaper, and wanted to try the latest CSI. I've put the CSI folder in the resource folder and reaper_csurf_integrator64.dll in C:\Program Files\REAPER (x64)\Plugins. CSI still doesn't appear in the menu under add Control/OSC/web. I also tried putting the dll-file all over the place, and by that I mean in the resource folder directly and in "user plugins".

I have reaper 6.02 and latest CSI.

[DrTT]

Hello AbbeH,

you wrote:

In your first post it isn't clear if you put the CSI folder in the Reaper resource folder, or in the regular installation folder. The resource folder is normally at C:\Users\[username]\AppData\Roaming\REAPER and you will find it by clicking Options -> "Show REAPER resource path in explorer/finder...".

Calling this action in Reaper in my configuration leads to Explorer opening exactly the folder where "reaper.exe" is installed. This is where I had put the CSI folder.

However, I have the same problem.

At least this makes me feel comfortable that I did not completely mess it up

Best regards,
DrTT

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by AbbeH

Hi! In your first post it isn't clear if you put the CSI folder in the Reaper resource folder, or in the regular installation folder. The resource folder is normally at C:\Users\[username]\AppData\Roaming\REAPER and you will find it by clicking Options -> "Show REAPER resource path in explorer/finder...".

However, I have the same problem. I just updated reaper, and wanted to try the latest CSI. I've put the CSI folder in the resource folder and reaper_csurf_integrator64.dll in C:\Program Files\REAPER (x64)\Plugins. CSI still doesn't appear in the menu under add Control/OSC/web. I also tried putting the dll-file all over the place, and by that I mean in the resource folder directly and in "user plugins".

I have reaper 6.02 and latest CSI.

Assuming your on Windows and 64-bit with a standard Reaper install:

reaper_csurf_integrator64.dll goes in C:\Program Files\REAPER (x64)\Plugins

CSI folder goes in C:\Users\[Username]\AppData\Roaming\Reaper (at the end, you should see "C:\Users\[Username]\AppData\Roaming\Reaper\CSI" )

Don't forget to close and restart Reaper.

[Funkybot]

Question for Geoff: is encoder acceleration still in the works and will it be made to work with the MIDI Fighter Twister in one of the Encoder modes? I'll be happy to help out however I can to make this happen.

Right now, turning an encoder (using "EncoderPlain" at the moment) is brutal in the MFTwister. For instance, changing the mix knob on a reverb from 50 to 75% can take like 10 seconds of countless knob twisting due to the super fine encoder resolution.

Using a fader is much more convenient in terms of speed, but you run into the problem of less fine control (like not being able to fine tune an EQ point back to zero). I'm on the fence at the moment about which option is the better compromise, but faster encoders would be the best of both worlds. Luckily the MFTwister can be setup for either.

EDIT
If the MFTwister encoder situation isn't going to improve any time soon and I just land on setting these up as faders, I'll update my MFTwister templates and documentation. Would be curious if anyone has used my MFTwister tempalte and they have thoughts about a preference.

[DrTT]

Hello Funkybot,

you wrote:

reaper_csurf_integrator64.dll goes in C:\Program Files\REAPER (x64)\Plugins

Well, I tried it in \pathToReaper\Plugins and even in C:\Users\[Username]\AppData\Roaming\Reaper\Plugins and ...\UserPlugins.

CSI folder goes in C:\Users\[Username]\AppData\Roaming\Reaper (at the end, you should see "C:\Users\[Username]\AppData\Roaming\Reaper\CSI")

I have tried that, but to no avail.

I understand that the software is still considered an alpha-version and I also do not want to sound unthankful, but there are some assumptions at least for the Windows installation that are hard to understand.

There had been no "Reaper" folder in my Roaming profile, because so far I have no personal settings for Reaper. This is debatable, because e.g. the "recent files list" should be personal, but this is the way a non-portable Reaper installation works in Windows. And in my opinion controller settings might be sometimes personal, but normally should go into the standard Reaper installation directory.

The CSI folder first should go into {REAPER}\UserPlugins (and optionally for user-specific overrides in the user profile); the DLL should definitively go into the {REAPER}\UserPlugins, because it is not user-specific and - as far as I know - the {REAPER}\Plugins folder is reserved for Cockos.

Best regards,
DrTT

[Funkybot]

DrTT, try this (sorry if the steps sound like I'm being curt, just trying to lay things out clearly in short steps):

1. Open Reaper
2. Click Options in the menu
3. Then "Show REAPER resource path in "Explorer/Finder"
4. Make not of this folder location and close Reaper
5. Copy the entire folder labeled CSI into that directory. There should now be a subfolder in that top-level Reaper resource directory called "CSI" and if you open that CSI folder, there should be sub-folders within CSI called "Surfaces," "TouchOSC Layouts" and "Zones."

Does yours now look as described? If so, then...

6. The reaper_csurf_integrator64.dll file goes in [YourPathToReaper]\Plugins. Not UserPlugins. Not roaming. If it's in those other directories, remove it from there just to be safe.

Once you do those things and nothing else, then...

7. Restart Reaper
8. Go to Preferences -> Control/OSC/Web, click the Add button, and you should now see "Control Surface Integrator" option in the dropdown.

Is it still not working? Note: I'm not doing a portable install, so if you are, let us know. Maybe the steps become different or it doesn't work.

[AbbeH]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

DrTT, try this (sorry if the steps sound like I'm being curt, just trying to lay things out clearly in short steps):

1. Open Reaper
2. Click Options in the menu
3. Then "Show REAPER resource path in "Explorer/Finder"
4. Make not of this folder location and close Reaper
5. Copy the entire folder labeled CSI into that directory. There should now be a subfolder in that top-level Reaper resource directory called "CSI" and if you open that CSI folder, there should be sub-folders within CSI called "Surfaces," "TouchOSC Layouts" and "Zones."

Does yours now look as described? If so, then...

6. The reaper_csurf_integrator64.dll file goes in [YourPathToReaper]\Plugins. Not UserPlugins. Not roaming. If it's in those other directories, remove it from there just to be safe.

Once you do those things and nothing else, then...

7. Restart Reaper
8. Go to Preferences -> Control/OSC/Web, click the Add button, and you should now see "Control Surface Integrator" option in the dropdown.

Is it still not working? Note: I'm not doing a portable install, so if you are, let us know. Maybe the steps become different or it doesn't work.

Since I have the same problem, I also followed your instructions to the point. CSI still does not show up in the list.

I don't have a portable installation but I suspect DrTT's installation is portable if he's being directed to the installation folder when opening the resource folder.

[DrTT]

Hello Funkybot,

thanks for your list and effort!

I had done exactly those steps you mention on a standard Windows64 bit non-portable installation with a dedicated installation folder.

For your reference I have included some screenshots showing the CSI plugin installation phases.

• CSI subfolder in Reaper installation folder (CSI-Install-1.png),
• contents of CSI subfolder (CSI-Install-2.png),
• contents of Reaper\Plugins folder (CSI-Install-3.png),
• control surface selection dialog in Reaper (CSI-Install-4.png)

Hope this helps!

Best regards,
DrTT

[Funkybot]

Thanks for the screen shots. Nothing immediately stands out as incorrect.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Question for Geoff: is encoder acceleration still in the works and will it be made to work with the MIDI Fighter Twister in one of the Encoder modes? I'll be happy to help out however I can to make this happen.

Right now, turning an encoder (using "EncoderPlain" at the moment) is brutal in the MFTwister. For instance, changing the mix knob on a reverb from 50 to 75% can take like 10 seconds of countless knob twisting due to the super fine encoder resolution.

Using a fader is much more convenient in terms of speed, but you run into the problem of less fine control (like not being able to fine tune an EQ point back to zero). I'm on the fence at the moment about which option is the better compromise, but faster encoders would be the best of both worlds. Luckily the MFTwister can be setup for either.

EDIT
If the MFTwister encoder situation isn't going to improve any time soon and I just land on setting these up as faders, I'll update my MFTwister templates and documentation. Would be curious if anyone has used my MFTwister tempalte and they have thoughts about a preference.

Acceleration is definitely still planned, but for now, I tuned EncoderPlain, it will be in the next build -- let me know if it feels right.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by RobinGShore

*facepalm*

Of course. I saw that you had written this in another post but I didn't realize it meant I still had to add Eucon in the Reaper Control Surface preferences. I thought installing just meant dragging the dylib file into the user plugins folder.

Anyways, still not working. When I add Eucon to the control surface list, Reaper quits immediately without generating a crash log.

Hmmm...

Versionitis ?

Here:
Mojave 10.14.6
Reaper 6.0
EuControl 19.12.1.23 -- think 3.7 was fine too

Also remember to install CSI first, then EuCon -- they should appear in that order in the surface config panel.

[Geoff Waddington]

Just a heads up -- slight .zon file change coming in next build.

This only affects included Zones.

As an added bonus, the syntax improves

Before:

Zone Home
	OnTrackSelection MapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets
	IncludedZones
		Buttons 
		Channel|1-8
	IncludedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd

Zone Buttons
	Send ToggleMapSelectedTrackSends
	Track ToggleMapSelectedTrackFXMenu
	Pan ToggleMapSelectedTrackFX
        ChannelLeft TrackBank -1
	ChannelRight TrackBank 1
	BankLeft TrackBank -8
	BankRight TrackBank 8
        ...
ZoneEnd

Zone Channel|1-8
	TrackNavigator
	DisplayUpper|  TrackNameDisplay
	DisplayLower|  TrackPanDisplay
	TrackTouch+DisplayLower|  TrackVolumeDisplay
	RotaryPush| GoZone PanWidth|
	Rotary| TrackPan 0
	RecordArm|  TrackRecordArm
	Solo|  TrackSolo
	Mute| TrackMute
        ...
ZoneEnd

After:

Zone Home
	OnTrackSelection MapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets
	IncludedZones
		Buttons|
		Channel|1-8
	IncludedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd

Zone Buttons|
	Send ToggleMapSelectedTrackSends
	Track ToggleMapSelectedTrackFXMenu
	Pan ToggleMapSelectedTrackFX
        ...
ZoneEnd

Zone Channel|
	TrackNavigator
	IncludedZones
		Send|1-4
	IncludedZonesEnd
	DisplayUpper|  TrackNameDisplay
	DisplayLower|  TrackPanDisplay
        ...
ZoneEnd

Zone Send|
	ParentNavigator
	DisplayUpper|  TrackSendNameDisplay
	TrackTouch+DisplayUpper|  TrackSendVolumeDisplay
	Mute| TrackSendMute
        ...
ZoneEnd

New syntax -- Zones definitions that end with "|" are Template Zones -- they are constructed by their enclosing Zone and don't exist standalone -- they are meta data.

Note we lose that hideous repetition of 1-8, etc. -- the Template Zone contains the rules, the enclosing Zone dictates the actual count of Template Zones created -- in the case of Buttons - 1 Zone, in the case of Channels - 8 Zones, in the case of Sends - 4 Zones, and so on.

Also note than Included Zones are now supported to arbitrary depth -- there are 8 Channels, each with 4 Sends -- that capability was missing before.

Finally there is a new Navigator type -- ParentNavigator -- takes its navigation from the enclosing Zone.

This is actually added for EuCon, they do the Sends vertically as opposed to horizontally(the way MCU usually does) -- a great example of the symbiosis of folding EuCon support into CSI -- everyone benefits from work on any surface type

[mschnell]

So much new stuff, but the CSI WIki -> https://github.com/malcolmgroves/reaper_csi/wiki stuck at September 27.

Michael (lurking since a year, not daring to give the new versions a try...)

[AbbeH]

Anyone else having problems installing latest CSI on latest reaper in windows 10?

Me and DrTT seem to have the same problem, CSI not showing up in the list in Preferences -> Control/OSC/Web after putting the right files in the right folders, even after restarting both reaper and the computer.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by AbbeH

Anyone else having problems installing latest CSI on latest reaper in windows 10?

Me and DrTT seem to have the same problem, CSI not showing up in the list in Preferences -> Control/OSC/Web after putting the right files in the right folders, even after restarting both reaper and the computer.

Let's start comparing versions:

Reaper 6.0 here.

Mac OS, I think you folks are on Windows, right ?

What version ?

Also, did you unblock the download under properties, don't know if that makes a difference but might as well try.

[DrTT]

Hello Geoff,

you wrote:

Let's start comparing versions:

My versions are:

• platform version: Windows 10 Pro, version 1909, build 18363.535
• Reaper version: 6.02/x64 rev 992e2b (2019-12-16)
• CSI DLL version: 2019-12-26, 14:27:58

Also, did you unblock the download under properties, don't know if that makes a difference but might as well try.

I unblocked it, but it does not make a difference.

Best regards,
DrTT

[AbbeH]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Let's start comparing versions:

Reaper 6.0 here.

Mac OS, I think you folks are on Windows, right ?

What version ?

Also, did you unblock the download under properties, don't know if that makes a difference but might as well try.

As for me I have Reaper 6.02, Windows 10 pro, CSI: "Uploaded On December 27, 2019 at 02:50 PM"

[Funkybot]

Did you have any previous versions of CSI installed? I'm using the same versions right now and everything is working, but I've been running CSI for a few weeks now.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Acceleration is definitely still planned, but for now, I tuned EncoderPlain, it will be in the next build -- let me know if it feels right.

Looking forward to it! Will let you know how it goes. Been creating a ton of FX Zones. Will share those too soon.

[WaveTrans]

Originally Posted by AbbeH

Anyone else having problems installing latest CSI on latest reaper in windows 10?

Me and DrTT seem to have the same problem, CSI not showing up in the list in Preferences -> Control/OSC/Web after putting the right files in the right folders, even after restarting both reaper and the computer.

Actually, after updating to the current version, Reaper did not show the CSI option when I re-opend it. So I repeated the copying CSI into Reaper folders and restarted the computer, then it worked again.

I use Reaper 6.02 on Win 10. My Reaper install is not on drive C and not portable.

[WaveTrans]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Did you manage to solve your FocusedFX issues?

I have to say I found the Focused method to be a little unreliable/unpredictable, so I swapped to the FXMenu/SelectedTrackNavigator method, which has been rock solid.

Unfortunately, the behaviour did not change with the new version of CSI.
If the FXMenu is entered upon hitting Plugins button, everything works fine, but most of the times, the FXzone is not entered at all when I hit the assigned button (Plugin).

Also I did experience problems when trying to leave an FXMenu/zone, for which I set up a GoZone home button. Hitting GoZOneHome and leaving the FXzone sometimes works but more often it does not,
like Funkybot says here:

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Curious if you tried a "ToggleFocusedFX" widget and if that worked for you. I was previously reserving a button on my MFT for "GoZone Home" and it seemed like CSI would get lost (or perhaps more likely: I was lost in setup) when switching from FocusedFX to Home and back. But when I replaced the action on that particular widget with ToggleFocusedFX, it seemed to do the trick and let me bounce back and forth between my Home and FocusedFX zones.

I haven't experimented with the FxMenu approach at all.

Maybe I should give the FXMenu/Track Navigator option another go, maybe it works now.

May come back to you when trying to set it up

Well, maybe I should also mention that sends do not work that well either since the version before 27.12.2019 also frequently missing to enter sends menu when hitting the sends button;
not shure, what´s going on, I have the impression that the controller loses contact to CSI/Reaper frequently, since it suddenly pulls the fader down an nothing goes until I refresh by clicking on a different track or in some cases after re-loading CSI from the pref Menu. a couple of times I had to restart the whole business, meaning controller and reaper and reload CSI before it responded again.
can´t say if that´s due to Reaper/CSI or the controller.

[RobinGShore]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Hmmm...

Versionitis ?

Here:
Mojave 10.14.6
Reaper 6.0
EuControl 19.12.1.23 -- think 3.7 was fine too

I'm using the exact same versions of everything, Mojave 10.14.6, Reaper 6.0, and Eucontrol 19.12.1.23. I was using Reaper 6.02, but I rolled back to 6.0 for the sake of testing, and it's still crashing in the exact same way. I've tried with both the notarized for Catalina and unnotarized versions of Reaper, I also tried resetting my Reaper config to default, but still no luck with any of that.

Also remember to install CSI first, then EuCon -- they should appear in that order in the surface config panel.

Yep, I did this. They don't actually appear in that order though, because I'm unable to actually get Eucon to appear in the Config panel at all once CSI is there. As soon as I click the OK button to add Eucon, Reaper hangs for a brief moment than crashes. When I reopen Reaper only CSI is listed in the config panel.

Originally Posted by Funkybot

If you want to continue troubleshooting, try following these steps (this got me closest in Windows):

1. Remove all control surfaces from your Reaper (you may want to Export your Configuration just in case you need to get back to where you were before), including CSI. This is just to start fresh to make sure there aren't any conflicts or anything.

2. Close Reaper.

3. Important: if you had Geoff's old Eucon adapter, find and remove those files from your Reaper\Plugins folder. If you're not sure which are old and which are new, remove anything in that folder with eucon in the file name and then, afterwards, reinstall the new .dll/lib only. So now, you should only have the new Eucon files in the plugin folder. Be sure your CSI folders are properly installed too.

4. Now, relaunch Reaper.

5. Go to Preferences -> Control/OSC/Web. Click Add, select Control Surface Integrator but do NOT add a Eucon surface here yet. Click ok to close the window. This should put you back on the Control/OSC/Web Preferences screen.

6. Now, while still on the Control/OSC/Web screen, click Add again. Now select Eucon from the dropdown. Click OK to return that screen.

7. Now highlight the Control Surface Integrator entry you created in step 5. Click Edit. Click the "Add Eucon" button. Select all the default options and click ok to commit the changes and return to Reaper.

Ok, if I follow Funkybot's procedure, the behavior is slightly different. I can get both CSI and Eucon to appear in the surface config panel together as long as I don't have Eucon added to the surfaces section in the CSI settings. If I then add Eucon in the CSI settings (step 7 in Funkybot's list) Reaper crashes as soon as I click OK in the CSI settings windows. The crash is instant this time, no hanging at all, it happens as soon as I release my mouse button. When this happens I'm no longer able to re-open Reaper, it crashes as soon the splash screen finishes. The only way for me to get Reaper back open after that is to delete CSI and/or Eucon from the userplugins folder in my Reaper resource path.

Unfortunately none of these crashes are generating crash logs