Control Surface Integration (CSI) Technical Feature Discussion

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Rethinking this whole thing.

Maybe auto map is an Action that can be assigned to a button.

It looks for a focused FX and maps that.

I like that idea but what about the FXMenu? I love that we no longer see the words "No Map" and just GoFXSlot activates the FX, and if no zone creates, we get one automatically. The thing with Learn mode is users still have to know to do something. Whereas with the Automapping, they don't need to know sh*t. They'll get a map.

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Learn is local to a Surface.

GoAssociatedZone LearnFXParams does not broadcast.

The only tricky bit is GoAssociatedZone on extenders with limited buttons -- modifiers are our friend here.

Once in LearnFXParams, we can use buttons like Rec Arm, etc. for our needs.


Learn can't be used from multiple Surfaces that share Zone folders, pick a surface as the "Learn" Surface and use that exclusively.

I don't see an issue for Extenders, where RecArm, Select, etc. can be repurposed for the sake of Learn/Save/Erase. Where I get concerned is the "using the tablet to mirror+add displays to a surface without them" workflow. You'd have to exclusively do the learning from the tablet. At least if you wanted to see what you were doing. But then that means you couldn't have a "display only" surface for learning, you'd have to add physical controls on the OSC layout. Not a terrible restriction, but one nonetheless.

Would it be possible to tweak CSI so that if two surfaces on the same page share the same zone folder, CSI just saw them as a single surface? Or maybe a new surface preference to that effect (e.g. set both devices to "Surface Group 1") with the idea that any grouped surfaces just get aggregated into a single device behind the scenes.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

I like that idea but what about the FXMenu? I love that we no longer see the words "No Map" and just GoFXSlot activates the FX, and if no zone creates, we get one automatically. The thing with Learn mode is users still have to know to do something. Whereas with the Automapping, they don't need to know sh*t. They'll get a map.

How about the GoFXSlot Action, which is mapped to RotaryPush, gets enhanced to call auto map, if there is "NoMap" ?

Originally Posted by Funkybot

I don't see an issue for Extenders, where RecArm, Select, etc. can be repurposed for the sake of Learn/Save/Erase. Where I get concerned is the "using the tablet to mirror+add displays to a surface without them" workflow. You'd have to exclusively do the learning from the tablet. At least if you wanted to see what you were doing. But then that means you couldn't have a "display only" surface for learning, you'd have to add physical controls on the OSC layout. Not a terrible restriction, but one nonetheless.

Would it be possible to tweak CSI so that if two surfaces on the same page share the same zone folder, CSI just saw them as a single surface? Or maybe a new surface preference to that effect (e.g. set both devices to "Surface Group 1") with the idea that any grouped surfaces just get aggregated into a single device behind the scenes.

Wow, think of the complications of mixing OSC/MIDI .ost/.mst files to make an aggregated Surface, gives me a headache just thinking about it

[Funkybot]

Setting aside the broadcast/receive behavior piece for a moment, as that seems like a larger can of worms, here would be my suggestions for default behaviors.

Default Learn Behaviors
This is all manual. No real change needed to how/when learn mode is activated other than in relation to the FocusedFX mapping. No change to current behavior.

Default FX Menu Behaviors
Since so many surfaces have displays and FX Menu tend to be the preferred approach once you've got your sea legs with CSI, I'd think that Auto-Mapping should be enabled by default if the user Pushes to "GoFXSlot" and no FX.zon already exists. In that case, just automap one so the experience is seamless. No change to current behavior.

Default FocusedFX Behaviors
I think FocusedFX should default to off as it's a bit intrusive and can be confusing. I also think FocusedFXAutoMapping should default to off. I like Geoff's suggestion of having an action to quickly Automap the FocusedFX.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Wow, think of the complications of mixing OSC/MIDI .ost/.mst files to make an aggregated Surface, gives me a headache just thinking about it

I was hoping the file handling would stay the same (no .mst/.ost changes). That instead, CSI could just kind of funnel the data behind the scenes into one virtual surface for any grouped/aggregated devices. But yeah, totally understand how that could be a huge change and a headache.

I just feel like we need to find a way back to "Broadcast and Receive" for FX. I think putting everything else at the Page level was the right move, but things were smoother in relation to FX handling when we we could designated which surfaces could broadcast/receive. Maybe reintroduce that concept just for FX?

This way, if two surfaces shared the same zone folder they could broadcast and receive to each other without impacting other surfaces like they used to. Like...

Zone "Home"
Broadcast GoFXSlot FocusedFX LearnFXParams
Receive   GoFXSlot FocusedFX LearnFXParams
     IncludedZones
          "SelectedTrack"
          "Buttons"
          "SelectedTrackTCPFX"
          "SelectedTrackSend"
          "SelectedTrackReceve"
     IncludedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd

Or maybe, Broadcast/Receive groups where we add a number to say "this only broadcasts to group 1, and is only received by group 1". That might work great for much setups like mine where you want to treat the MFTwister as one group without impacting what's happening on the X-Touch. Same for MM with the C4+MCU's or anyone using an SCE-24 with an X-Touch.

Zone "Home"
Broadcast1 GoFXSlot FocusedFX LearnFXParams
Receive1   GoFXSlot FocusedFX LearnFXParams
     IncludedZones
          "SelectedTrack"
          "Buttons"
          "SelectedTrackTCPFX"
          "SelectedTrackSend"
          "SelectedTrackReceve"
     IncludedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Uh oh, just realized it's a bit worse than that. If you have common FX folders and you press Save, it's luck of the draw which Surface Saves last and clobbers the other Surface Zone definitions.

It doesn't matter which surface saves last if you have a common ZONE folder, because they'll all be saving the same thing.

Methinks Learn needs to move up to Page scope...

Hmmm... but then multiple Surfaces that don't share FX folders are out of luck.

It's working pretty well at the moment, stick with it and see how it goes.

Remind me who it was that asked that Learn span Surfaces

Yes, that would be me I thought I'd save @MTU the trouble

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

How about the GoFXSlot Action, which is mapped to RotaryPush, gets enhanced to call auto map, if there is "NoMap" ?

Don't do this, please Seeing NoMap is fine, it means the plugin is ready to go into Learn mode. Having auto-map on a button is best, it's the way I've had it since auto-map was implemented.

If the plugin shows NoMap and you can't be arsed to Learn the controls you just push the AMAP button and BAM! insta plugin map.

It might initially seem better to have everything happen automatically, but in reality it just creates more work down the road.

Wow, think of the complications of mixing OSC/MIDI .ost/.mst files to make an aggregated Surface, gives me a headache just thinking about it

Chill brother It's aggregating ok at the moment. The only gotcha is that you can only have controls appear on one surface during the Learn process. So you can't (for instance) have a BCR2000 and an iPad share a common Zone folder, turn controls (in Learn mode) on the BCR2000 and expect to see them appear immediately (in Learn mode) on the iPad.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

I just feel like we need to find a way back to "Broadcast and Receive" for FX. I think putting everything else at the Page level was the right move, but things were smoother in relation to FX handling when we we could designated which surfaces could broadcast/receive. Maybe reintroduce that concept just for FX?

This way, if two surfaces shared the same zone folder they could broadcast and receive to each other without impacting other surfaces like they used to. Like...

Zone "Home"
Broadcast GoFXSlot FocusedFX LearnFXParams
Receive   GoFXSlot FocusedFX LearnFXParams
     IncludedZones
          "SelectedTrack"
          "Buttons"
          "SelectedTrackTCPFX"
          "SelectedTrackSend"
          "SelectedTrackReceve"
     IncludedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd

Or maybe, Broadcast/Receive groups where we add a number to say "this only broadcasts to group 1, and is only received by group 1". That might work great for much setups like mine where you want to treat the MFTwister as one group without impacting what's happening on the X-Touch. Same for MM with the C4+MCU's or anyone using an SCE-24 with an X-Touch.

Zone "Home"
Broadcast1 GoFXSlot FocusedFX LearnFXParams
Receive1   GoFXSlot FocusedFX LearnFXParams
     IncludedZones
          "SelectedTrack"
          "Buttons"
          "SelectedTrackTCPFX"
          "SelectedTrackSend"
          "SelectedTrackReceve"
     IncludedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd

I'd be happy to see Broadcast/Receive return for everything. The way it is at the moment is actually a step back from where we were if you have multiple surfaces.

The only way to control it is to delete Zones to prevent them being loaded when another surface changes Zone (and sometimes even that doesn't work, my XT's will show the FXMenu quite happily despite not having an FXMenu Zone)

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

It doesn't matter which surface saves last if you have a common ZONE folder, because they'll all be saving the same thing.

Not the code I'm looking at here

Learn definitions are separate for each Surface.

Learn saves on a per Surface basis.

Seems like if you map something on two Surfaces that share a common FX folder, one definition will overwrite the other.

Are you sure that's not the case ?

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Yes, that would be me I thought I'd save @MTU the trouble

I know, I was just messin' with ya'

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Not the code I'm looking at here

Learn definitions are separate for each Surface.

Learn saves on a per Surface basis.

Seems like if you map something on two Surfaces that share a common FX folder, one definition will overwrite the other.

Are you sure that's not the case ?

No, I'm sure that is the case. I'm just saying it doesn't matter as they're all saving the same thing.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Don't do this, please Seeing NoMap is fine, it means the plugin is ready to go into Learn mode. Having auto-map on a button is best, it's the way I've had it since auto-map was implemented.

If the plugin shows NoMap and you can't be arsed to Learn the controls you just push the AMAP button and BAM! insta plugin map.

It might initially seem better to have everything happen automatically, but in reality it just creates more work down the road.

Ummm...

I think we're saying the same thing.

You will still see NoMap displayed.

You then have the option of Pushing the Rotary for auto map, or entering Learn mode.

Or am I missing what you are saying ?

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Ummm...

I think we're saying the same thing.

You will still see NoMap displayed.

You then have the option of Pushing the Rotary for auto map, or entering Learn mode.

Or am I missing what you are saying ?

No, I think I misunderstood you. That sounds fine. If you push the FXMenu button where NoMap is displayed, you get auto-map. If you push Learn, you get Learn.

[Funkybot]

In today's world we never see NoMap. That went away when Auto-mapping was introduced right? Are we talking about bringing it back? I'm starting a campaign now: Say No to NoMap!

If you want to Learn an FX, focus it and Learn.

Otherwise, KISS rule: keep the FX Menu+automap behavior same as today. If CSI finds an FX.zon, it uses it. If it doesn't, we see the FX name on the display and activating the FX slot auto-maps it. This is the easiest/smoothest experience for new users. Things "just work". No setup. No mapping. That's the strength of automapping. And if you don't want to automap, because the experience isn't great, then you can still Learn.

But auto-mapping is the "Steve Jobs/iOS" approach. Learning is a bit more Android.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

In today's world we never see NoMap. That went away when Auto-mapping was introduced? Are we talking about bringing it back? I'm starting a campaign now: Say No to NoMap!

....and how exactly do you propose to Learn controls on a surface that has already had all the parameters thrown at it by auto-map. What Geoff proposes represents an easy choice.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

No, I'm sure that is the case. I'm just saying it doesn't matter as they're all saving the same thing.

I'm confused.

Surface 1 has params 3, 5, and 7 learned.

Surface 2 has params 4, 6, and 18 learned.

You press Save, which broadcasts.

Surface 1 Saves, the Zone now contains definitions for 3, 5, 7.

Surface 2 Saves, the Zone now contains definitions for 4, 6, 18.

The definitions for 3, 5, 7 are lost, because they don't appear in the Surface 2 definition set, which just overwrote the Zone file that Surface 1 and Surface 2 share.

Are you saying that is not what happens ?

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

....and how exactly do you propose to Learn controls on a surface that has already had all the parameters thrown at it by auto-map. What Geoff proposes represents an easy choice.

Here's what I propose:

1. By default, auto-map is enabled except for FocusedFX.

2. On a surface with an FX Menu, we see the FX Name on the display. CSI can just build a zone with the FX Name only for all I care or store the FX name in memory and display it dynamically. But don't show NoMap. That sucks for newbies. Everyone's not us.

3. If you want to get to work with the FX immediately, don't have the time, desire, knowledge to get into Learning, you just activate the FX. The "GoFXSlot+AutoMappingEnabled" combination builds an automap. This is the approach that resembles magic and is best for new users. The iOS approach.

4. If you want to Learn the FX, you open the FX in Reaper and focus it. Then press the button on your surface to Learn it.

...easy peasy!

[flipotto]

NoMap does not bother me, to me it warns me there is no map for a plugin.
I can no choose:

1. Start learning knobs, which I am really enjoying. I can pick the ones I want and put them directly where I want them.
2. Automap - all params get put out in the order of fxlayout. Makes a lot of work moving stuff around where I want it, using remap.

Maybe a different word ... I don't know.

I think I will probably use learn mostly, then edit after I need to modify something or add two params on one knob. Gotta run, I'll chime in later.

[Funkybot]

I just don't see where we lose anything in what I'm proposing. It's by far the easiest and requires no pre-existing knowledge (works like magic), while still leaving Learn Mode wide open and available to anyone who wants to use it. It's a "have your cake and eat it too" kind of proposal.

Imagine you're completely new to CSI, you're considering CSI versus ReaLearn versus Klinke, etc. You load up CSI and configure it with your new X-Touch. You intitively press the Plugin button and you see the plugin menu with all your FX listed out (not a bunch of NoMaps). Then you press RotaryPush and the FX is automapped on your surface and activated. The default behavior should be that simple. It would appear as if magic! No extra steps required. No process waste.

Then if you don't like the mapping, "hey, let me look into this more, how do I change this? Let me check out the wiki. Oh, there's a Remap window or a Learn mode." But for things like Valhalla plugins, UAD plugins, those Automaps are going to work well enough. I use them all the time. Well designed, small plugins put the important params upfront or follow a logical order.

Now consider if that user was presented with a bunch of NoMaps. Then what? Now, that user has lost all the immediacy of an automap. All the magic of that first experience is lost. It's immediately, "well let me crack open the manual".

The first experience is a great first impression and the second experience throws up roadblocks from the outset.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

I just don't see where we lose anything in what I'm proposing. It's by far the easiest and requires no pre-existing knowledge (works like magic), while still leaving Learn Mode wide open and available to anyone who wants to use it. It's a "have your cake and eat it too" kind of proposal.

Imagine you're completely new to CSI, you're considering CSI versus ReaLearn versus Klinke, etc. You load up CSI and configure it with your new X-Touch. You intitively press the Plugin button and you see the plugin menu with all your FX listed out (not a bunch of NoMaps). Then you press RotaryPush and the FX is automapped on your surface and activated. The default behavior should be that simple. It would appear as if magic! No extra steps required. No process waste.

Then if you don't like the mapping, "hey, let me look into this more, how do I change this? Let me check out the wiki. Oh, there's a Remap window or a Learn mode." But for things like Valhalla plugins, UAD plugins, those Automaps are going to work well enough. I use them all the time. Well designed, small plugins put the important params upfront or follow a logical order.

Now consider if that user was presented with a bunch of NoMaps. Then what? Now, that user has lost all the immediacy of an automap. All the magic of that first experience is lost. It's immediately, "well let me crack open the manual".

The first experience is a great first impression and the second experience throws up roadblocks from the outset.

Totally get the iOS approach !

Th only flaw I see is there is absolutely no visual differentiation between a mapped plugin and one that is "learnable".

If I see a plugin name, how do I know it's not yet mapped ?

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Totally get the iOS approach !

Th only flaw I see is there is absolutely no visual differentiation between a mapped plugin and one that is "learnable".

If I see a plugin name, how do I know it's not yet mapped ?

A bit of a cludge, but you could maybe prefix the name FXMenu name with an asterisk rather than "NoMap". Asterisk at the start would mean no map exists and this is learnable. If you GoFXSlot, you'll get an automap.

In my dream scenario, the ultimate end-state would be that eventually Automap, Learn, and Remap windows would all eventually just produce the same exact output and you could use Learn to edit an Automapped plugin, or Remap to edit both, etc. making them fully interchangeable. Long-term dream.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

I'm confused.

Surface 1 has params 3, 5, and 7 learned.

Surface 2 has params 4, 6, and 18 learned.

You press Save, which broadcasts.

Surface 1 Saves, the Zone now contains definitions for 3, 5, 7.

Surface 2 Saves, the Zone now contains definitions for 4, 6, 18.

The definitions for 3, 5, 7 are lost, because they don't appear in the Surface 2 definition set, which just overwrote the Zone file that Surface 1 and Surface 2 share.

Are you saying that is not what happens ?

We're discussing different use cases

You're discussing the case where the Learned parameters span multiple surfaces. If you want Learn to work properly in a scenario that contains, say, an MCU and three XT's, each XT will need to have its own FX Zones folder. Otherwise the definitions will be overwritten exactly as you describe.

I'm discussing the case where one surface mirrors another (a BCR2000 and an iPad, say) In this case, you want the two surfaces to share a Zone folder, as they need to have identical controls. So it doesn't matter if one surface's definitions overwrites the other as the definitions are identical.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

A bit of a cludge, but you could maybe prefix the name FXMenu name with an asterisk rather than "NoMap". Asterisk at the start would mean no map exists and this is learnable. If you GoFXSlot, you'll get an automap.

In my dream scenario, the ultimate end-state would be that eventually Automap, Learn, and Remap windows would all eventually just produce the same exact output and you could use Learn to edit an Automapped plugin, or Remap to edit both, etc. making them fully interchangeable. Long-term dream.

Yeah, that's a nice dream, one that i share.

Meanwhile, here's another pushback on the auto map FXMenu approach -- it's so 2000's

New user's friend says, "How come you gave up on CSI, I heard it auto maps FX".

New user says, "Yeah, well, it does, sort of. Remember those terrible auto map functions from the 2000's that just splay the parameters across the controls with zero regard for layout, well that's what it does. That sucks, so I'm using XYZ now".

The auto mapping leads a user to believe that is the only option.

That's the pushback I see.

I think the compromise is to indicate the absence of a map somehow, giving them the choice of which path to take.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

"Yeah, well, it does, sort of. Remember those terrible auto map functions from the 2000's that just splay the parameters across the controls with zero regard for layout, well that's what it does.

This, and most of the parameter names will be unreadable too.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

We're discussing different use cases

I'm discussing the case where one surface mirrors another (a BCR2000 and an iPad, say) In this case, you want the two surfaces to share a Zone folder, as they need to have identical controls. So it doesn't matter if one surface's definitions overwrites the other as the definitions are identical.

Not so, unless you are careful to make sure you only use one Surface to do the mapping.

Just because they have identical controls doesn't mean the 2 "learned" Zones look anything alike.

It depends entirely on which controls you moved on which Surface whilst learning.

[edit] Someone please test this to verify, I might have inadvertently coded something that eliminates this issue

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Not so, unless you are careful to make sure you only use one Surface to do the mapping.

Just because they have identical controls doesn't mean the 2 "learned" Zones look anything alike.

It depends entirely on which controls you moved on which Surface whilst learning.

At the moment that's a moot point, because you can only Learn controls on one surface. With the BCR2000 and iPad lash-up, @flipotto and I agreed it was better to Learn on the iPad, as that was the surface that had displays.

In order to get the BCR2000 to work with Learn, I had to add all the (non-existent on the BCR2000) displays to the BCR2000.mst. In the end this turned out to be a futile excercise, as a control Learnt on the BCR2000 didn't immediately appear on the iPad display (whilst still in Learn mode). Once the FX.zon was saved and re-loaded, it would appear on both.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

At the moment that's a moot point, because you can only Learn controls on one surface. With the BCR2000 and iPad lash-up, @flipotto and I agreed it was better to Learn on the iPad, as that was the surface that had displays.

In order to get the BCR2000 to work with Learn, I had to add all the (non-existent on the BCR2000) displays to the BCR2000.mst. In the end this turned out to be a futile excercise, as a control Learnt on the BCR2000 didn't immediately appear on the iPad display (whilst still in Learn mode). Once the FX.zon was saved and re-loaded, it would appear on both.

Ok, if you use that approach, you should be fine, we'll just have to be careful to document that.

And no need to test, the behaviour you see -- BCR2000 didn't immediately appear on the iPad display -- confirms what I thought.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

And no need to test, the behaviour you see -- BCR2000 didn't immediately appear on the iPad display -- confirms what I thought.

As we're in this neck of the woods, just wanted to re-iterate that surfaces without displays don't seem to work with Learn unless you add "fake" display information to the .mst and SurfaceFXLayout.zon.

[flipotto]

Question from the peanut gallery, I did not read all the replies since I last posted.

If automap is active by default, when you put a plugin on a track, those params are mapped. This is a good thing for a beginner.
They get the instant gratification of everything mapped and can use it like that (hodge podge of params all over the place) if they wish. If they only want to change a few things, they can with remap (drag and drop). However, the shine will wear off and many will want this param over here, and this one over here. Moving lots of params is a drag, even with drag and drop, things get out of the order you expect when the param vacates a spot above and everything moves up. Don't get me wrong, it's better than text edit.

To my question:
If I have plugin that has been automapped and I press learn, does it delete the automap and let me learn the params where I want them?
I have not experimented with that. If it does that would be desirable to me as user. Maybe a warning when learn is pressed and an automap exists that I will be deleting current automap and won't get it back!

I will now go back and read what I missed.

[flipotto]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

At the moment that's a moot point, because you can only Learn controls on one surface. With the BCR2000 and iPad lash-up, @flipotto and I agreed it was better to Learn on the iPad, as that was the surface that had displays.

I actually think it is better to Learn on the pcscreenOsc. Wiggle plugin, wiggle Osc knob. Works very fast. Don't have to move my eyes far. The gist is the same, Learn on touchOsc device.

In order to get the BCR2000 to work with Learn, I had to add all the (non-existent on the BCR2000) displays to the BCR2000.mst. In the end this turned out to be a futile excercise, as a control Learnt on the BCR2000 didn't immediately appear on the iPad display (whilst still in Learn mode). Once the FX.zon was saved and re-loaded, it would appear on both.

MM - I did not try that after changing the port addresses for my weird conflict between pcscreenOsc and ipad, perhaps that is worth a second try?

[flipotto]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

New user's friend says, "How come you gave up on CSI, I heard it auto maps FX".

New user says, "Yeah, well, it does, sort of. Remember those terrible auto map functions from the 2000's that just splay the parameters across the controls with zero regard for layout, well that's what it does. That sucks, so I'm using XYZ now".

The auto mapping leads a user to believe that is the only option.

That's the pushback I see.

I think the compromise is to indicate the absence of a map somehow, giving them the choice of which path to take.

Hmmm... yes, I see that also. So on the fence, now.
Automap - while looks shiny could drive ppl away because that is all they have patience for after the install and the config of devices.
On the other hand they are rewarded with "something" for the successful config.
Possibly an infographic image/thingy that shows the different options.
I know that the wiki covers all of it and covers it well. Not everyone can read or will ready past a few lines. Me for example - when I was having so much trouble with touchOsc connecting. If I had read the mighty fine wiki more carefully, I would have found the phoneosc procedure that would have enabled me to fix my own connection problem.
[plug for including that in the support files, please]
I am trying to say the wiki is awesome, but overwhelming. I kept having to come back with question after question and part of that is I did not know what I to search for -nomenclature, I didn't understand, and much I still don't.
So maybe an image that shows the paths of creating maps, flow chart... I don't know. I'm still learning which does what and when. A beginners guide, like wiki for the installation, which worked great, showing (not just text) the mapping options.
An advanced guide for people who want to stretch this as far as possible, just because they can. Maybe a beginners simple guide, a intermediate guide and the advanced guide.
I don't know, I'm off my rocker! Cheers to all!

[Geoff Waddington]

I guess there is one more option we haven't explored that captures all of the ideas expressed so far, at the expense of the dreaded modal dialog.

The FX name is displayed in the menu regardless.

When you push the Rotary the dreaded dialog comes up.

"There is no map for this FX yet, do you want to auto map or Learn it ?"

Focussed FX that didn't have a Zone could automatically go to Learn.

Just another option.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

I guess there is one more option we haven't explored that captures all of the ideas expressed so far, at the expense of the dreaded modal dialog.

The FX name is displayed in the menu regardless.

When you push the Rotary the dreaded dialog comes up.

"There is no map for this FX yet, do you want to auto map or Learn it ?"

Focussed FX that didn't have a Zone could automatically go to Learn.

Just another option.

I had the same thought. Has the advantage of being dead simple. Might be annoying for some.

I even contemplated this...

Zone SelectedTrackFXMenu
    RotaryPush|           GoFXSlotOrLearn
    Shift+RotaryPush|     GoFXSlotOrAutoMap

...users could then chose to reverse it and automap on the RotaryPush if they preferred.

[flipotto]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

I guess there is one more option we haven't explored that captures all of the ideas expressed so far, at the expense of the dreaded modal dialog.

The FX name is displayed in the menu regardless.

When you push the Rotary the dreaded dialog comes up.

"There is no map for this FX yet, do you want to auto map or Learn it ?"

Focussed FX that didn't have a Zone could automatically go to Learn.

Just another option.

I have not seen that dialog yet.
I'll see if I can make it happen.
For pcscreenOsc - I add plugin and it shows up NoMap currently, I click on it to select it (pushrotary for you) I do not see that dialog.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by flipotto

I have not seen that dialog yet.
I'll see if I can make it happen.
For pcscreenOsc - I add plugin and it shows up NoMap currently, I click on it to select it (pushrotary for you) I do not see that dialog.

I think Geoff's suggesting that might be an option, I don't think he's coded it yet

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by flipotto

I actually think it is better to Learn on the pcscreenOsc. Wiggle plugin, wiggle Osc knob. Works very fast. Don't have to move my eyes far. The gist is the same, Learn on touchOsc device.

Yes, absolutely. Either is a better option than the BCR2000.

MM - I did not try that after changing the port addresses for my weird conflict between pcscreenOsc and ipad, perhaps that is worth a second try?

No, it will only sort of work if you add a ton of stuff to the BCR2000.mst. Not worth it.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by flipotto

I have not seen that dialog yet.
I'll see if I can make it happen.
For pcscreenOsc - I add plugin and it shows up NoMap currently, I click on it to select it (pushrotary for you) I do not see that dialog.

Yes MM is correct, it's an alternative suggestion.

I'm actually starting to like it, the more i think about it.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by flipotto

If I have plugin that has been automapped and I press learn, does it delete the automap and let me learn the params where I want them?

Yes, it scrubs the auto-mapped fx.zon and you start from scratch with Learn.

Maybe a warning when learn is pressed and an automap exists that I will be deleting current automap and won't get it back!

Yes, it does need a warning dialog

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Yes, it scrubs the auto-mapped fx.zon and you start from scratch with Learn.

Yes, it does need a warning dialog

That warning dialog does exist and should show up under the conditions you describe, are you not seeing it ?

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

That warning dialog does exist and should show up under the conditions you describe, are you not seeing it ?

Nope.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Nope.

Ah, a bug, will be fixed in next build.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Ah, a bug, will be fixed in next build.

Cool Learn is really shaping up!