Control Surface Integration (CSI) Technical Feature Discussion

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Aside from the RingStyle bug, that is per design.

Remap now fully defines params when it saves.

Should we change that ?

Perhaps the RingStyle was the culprit, but toggling wasn't work with the stock syntax. That's why I went poking in the zone to see what was up.

I don't see a problem adding the deltas and range assuming everything works in harmony.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

I don't think it makes sense to Broadcast AutoLearnFocusedFX, but maybe I'm wrong, maybe an MFT and OSC display ?

I haven't tried AutoLearnFocusedFX yet, but without broadcast/listen, will the focused map automatically activate right after the zone is created? I'd assume yes. And if yes, then you probably don't need to broadcast because the FocusedFX logic should take over once the zon exists.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

I haven't tried AutoLearnFocusedFX yet, but without broadcast/listen, will the focused map automatically activate right after the zone is created? I'd assume yes. And if yes, then you probably don't need to broadcast because the FocusedFX logic should take over once the zon exists.

Correct.

I'm talking about Broadcasting AutoLearnFocusedFX to another Surface.

Down the road we might add a feature that enables AutoLearnFocusedFX to span Surfaces in a meaningful way, as opposed to just duplicating, which would be the case as of now.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Down the road we might add a feature that enables AutoLearnFocusedFX to span Surfaces in a meaningful way, as opposed to just duplicating, which would be the case as of now.

Makes sense. That would definitely be a nice thing to have down the road.

[fourdogslong]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

New Exp build is up.

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/42044/CSI%20Exp.zip

Fixed Advanced Dialog bug that FB reported on Windows.

First cut at new Learn workflow.

I really like it, could probably use a few tweaks, give it a try.

A take on the FB suggestion -- if you use FXMenu and Push GoFXSlot on a NoMap, the FX gui opens, focusing it. You can then press the button assigned to GoAssociatedZone LearnFocusedFX to Learn or Auto Learn.

It requires quite a few changes, including Zone names, I think this is the list

Zone Home
    AssociatedZones
	LearnFocusedFX

Zone "Buttons"

    Instrument GoAssociatedZone LearnFocusedFX

    User RemapZone

Zone "LearnFocusedFX"
    Busses		AutoLearnFocusedFX
    Outputs		EraseLastTouchedControl
    User                SaveLearnedFXParams

Note that you can go back into Learn or Remap anytime you want, there are no restrictions, providing, of course, that you don't mess with the auto generated section

Is LearnFXParams still a thing or is it completely replaced by LearnFocusedFX?

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by fourdogslong

Is LearnFXParams still a thing or is it completely replaced by LearnFocusedFX?

Completely replaced.

Don't forget to rename your LearnFXParams.zon file and contents, as per the post.

[fourdogslong]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Completely replaced.

Don't forget to rename your LearnFXParams.zon file and contents, as per the post.

Got it, previously I had this in my LearnFXParams zon

	OnZoneActivation	LearnFocusedFXParams

Is there something similar needed now?

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by fourdogslong

Got it, previously I had this in my LearnFXParams zon

	OnZoneActivation	LearnFocusedFXParams

Is there something similar needed now?

You don't need that line at all.

There is no LearnFocusedFXParams Action.

From outside the LearnFocusedFX Zone just call this, typically from the Buttons Zone:

SomeButton GoAssociatedZone LearnFocusedFX

That's all you need.

[fourdogslong]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

You don't need that line at all.

There is no LearnFocusedFXParams Action.

From outside the LearnFocusedFX Zone just call this, typically from the Buttons Zone:

SomeButton GoAssociatedZone LearnFocusedFX

That's all you need.

Yeah I copied that line from somebody's code without really understanding, deleted.

I notice that I have to open a plugin with no FX, click my Learn button once, the GUI closes, reopen it with the mouse and re-click the Learn Button once, often twice, before I can start the learning process.
Once I'm in, it seems to work ok.

When an FX has no map, "NoMap" is shown in the FX Menu (from the SelectedTrackFXMenu zone).
I'm not sure how useful that is because there might be times when I just want an overview of what FX are on a track without looking at the computer display, if an FX has no map then I wouldn't know which FX it is without looking at Reaper.
Not a big deal but it might be something to consider.

Automap seems to work too but I don't use that feature much to be honest since it doesn't span to all surfaces for now.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by fourdogslong

Yeah I copied that line from somebody's code without really understanding, deleted.

I notice that I have to open a plugin with no FX, click my Learn button once, the GUI closes, reopen it with the mouse and re-click the Learn Button once, often twice, before I can start the learning process.
Once I'm in, it seems to work ok.

You're working too hard

Don't understand what you mean by "open a plugin with no FX" ?

To me an FX is a plugin.

Try this way:

Open an FX on a Track, giving it focus.

Hit the Learn button.

That's it.

Originally Posted by fourdogslong

When an FX has no map, "NoMap" is shown in the FX Menu (from the SelectedTrackFXMenu zone).
I'm not sure how useful that is because there might be times when I just want an overview of what FX are on a track without looking at the computer display, if an FX has no map then I wouldn't know which FX it is without looking at Reaper.
Not a big deal but it might be something to consider.

Yup, I agree, will change it in next build.

[fourdogslong]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

You're working too hard

Don't understand what you mean by "open a plugin with no FX" ?

To me an FX is a plugin.

Try this way:

Open an FX on a Track, giving it focus.

Hit the Learn button.

That's it.




Yup, I agree, will change it in next build.

I wrote too fast lol
I meant, open a plugin with no FX Map.

Yeah I'm not sure why I have to do all this, it's as if 1 press of my "learn" button doesn't work, I'll experiment more with it later.

[fourdogslong]

Are the following zones still needed?
NoMap.zon
FXLayouts.zon
SurfaceFXLayout.zon

[fourdogslong]

By the way, I'm still experiencing issues with tracks landing randomly or completely outside of my controller (all tracks stay blank) when I recall visibility snapshot.
Today I discovered that when that happens, I can refresh all surfaces and then the tracks land properly on the controller.
Maybe it can help you troubleshoot this...

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by fourdogslong

Are the following zones still needed?
NoMap.zon
FXLayouts.zon
SurfaceFXLayout.zon

You don't need NoMap anymore.

The other 2 define how the autogenerated sections of the Zone get created.

[fourdogslong]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

You don't need NoMap anymore.

The other 2 define how the autogenerated sections of the Zone get created.

Ok thanks.

I notice that this still is not implemented and maybe now would be a good time to do it since you are re-writing the whole thing?

Flip+Touch+DisplayLower|         TrackSendVolumeDisplay

It would be useful when in TrackSend zone to be able to Flip the sends from Rotary to Faders and have the display show what the send volume is.
Especially useful for those of us without touch sensitive rotaries.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Correct.

I'm talking about Broadcasting AutoLearnFocusedFX to another Surface.

Down the road we might add a feature that enables AutoLearnFocusedFX to span Surfaces in a meaningful way, as opposed to just duplicating, which would be the case as of now.

Can we still manually Learn controls across surfaces?

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Can we still manually Learn controls across surfaces?

Yes, as long as you set up Listeners with LearnFX checked, and have the FXLayouts, SurfaceFXLayout, and LearnFocusedFX Zones properly defined for all Surfaces.

[fourdogslong]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Yes, as long as you set up Listeners with LearnFX checked, and have the FXLayouts, SurfaceFXLayout, and LearnFocusedFX Zones properly defined for all Surfaces.

I have it set up as you describe and when I try to open learn I need to press my learn button twice in order to enter learnfocusedfx on both surfaces and sometimes the fx GUI closes in the process, I then have to reopen it with the mouse.

[MixMonkey]

I'm having zero luck with the new Learn arrangement. The surface seems to enter the LearnFocusedFXParams.zon ok, but I can't learn any controls. AutoMap doesn't work either. I cut the setup down to a single surface, maybe someone could look at the files and tell me what I've missed?

[fourdogslong]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

I'm having zero luck with the new Learn arrangement. The surface seems to enter the LearnFocusedFXParams.zon ok, but I can't learn any controls. AutoMap doesn't work either. I cut the setup down to a single surface, maybe someone could look at the files and tell me what I've missed?

Your zone is not properly named, you named it LearnFocusedFXParams, it should be LearnFocusedFX.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by fourdogslong

Your zone is not properly named, you named it LearnFocusedFXParams, it should be LearnFocusedFX.

Thanks. I was following this:
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...ostcount=25526

[fourdogslong]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Thanks. I was following this:
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...ostcount=25526

Yeah it's getting hard to follow sometimes, it'd be cool if there was an up to date read me or something like that at every release but I understand it'd be more work to do.

Here's the latest syntax to follow: https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...ostcount=25554

[Funkybot]

If it helps, here is a sample of my Twister files...

Zone "Home"
OnInitialization ToggleEnableFocusedFXMapping
     IncludedZones
          SelectedTrack
          Buttons
          SelectedTrackFXMenu
          SelectedTrackSend
          SelectedTrackReceive
     IncludedZonesEnd
     AssociatedZones
          LearnFocusedFX
     AssociatedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd

Zone "LearnFocusedFX"

    BankA              SaveLearnedFXParams
    BankADisplay       FixedTextDisplay "SaveLearnedFX"
    
    BankB              EraseLastTouchedControl
    BankBDisplay       FixedTextDisplay "EraseLast"

    Shift+BankA        AutoLearnFocusedFX
    Shift+BankADisplay FixedTextDisplay "AutoMap FocusedFX"

Zone "Buttons"
/
MainDisplay1          PageNameDisplay 
/
BankA                 GoHome
BankADisplay          FixedTextDisplay "GoHome"

BankC                 RemapZone
BankCDisplay          FixedTextDisplay "RemapZone"
/                    
DisplayUpperB1 FixedTextDisplay "LearnFocusedFX" 
DisplayLowerB1 NoAction 
RotaryB1 NoAction 
DisplayRotaryPushB1 NoAction
RotaryPushB1  GoAssociatedZone LearnFocusedFX
DisplayUpperShiftB1 NoAction 
DisplayLowerShiftB1 NoAction 
ShiftRotaryB1 NoAction

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by fourdogslong

Yeah it's getting hard to follow sometimes, it'd be cool if there was an up to date read me or something like that at every release but I understand it'd be more work to do.

Here's the latest syntax to follow: https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...ostcount=25554

Doh! and I even read that post..

No docs on the bleeding edge

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

If it helps, here is a sample of my Twister files...

Thanks

[flipotto]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Thanks

When you get it talking can you post bcr setup, please?

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by flipotto

When you get it talking can you post bcr setup, please?

You're the BCR2000 guy now, dude I sold mine on ebay months ago.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by flipotto

When you get it talking can you post bcr setup, please?

For you, or anyone else looking to update to the latest Exp build...

Assuming you have a working setup with the prior builds, I think the instructions to update to the latest EXP build would be (backup your old files first):

1. Delete your NoMap zone, that goes away
2. Rename your "LearnFXParams" zone to "LearnFocusedFX" - both file name and in line 1 of the zone file
3. While still in the same zone file, assign a button to AutoLearnFocusedFX
4. In your Buttons.zon, rename "GoAssociatedZone LearnFXParams" to "GoAssociatedZone LearnFocusedFX"
5. Add LearnFocusedFX as an AssociatedZone in the Home zone.
6. If you have two versions of the zone folder for the BCR hardware and a TouchOSC display, then copy those changes into both sets of zone files

Apologies if I left anything out.

[flipotto]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

For you, or anyone else looking to update to the latest Exp build...

Assuming you have a working setup with the prior builds, I think the instructions to update to the latest EXP build would be (backup your old files first):

1. Delete your NoMap zone, that goes away
2. Rename your "LearnFXParams" zone to "LearnFocusedFX" - both file name and in line 1 of the zone file
3. While still in the same zone file, assign a button to AutoLearnFocusedFX
4. In your Buttons.zon, rename "GoAssociatedZone LearnFXParams" to "GoAssociatedZone LearnFocusedFX"
5. Add LearnFocusedFX as an AssociatedZone in the Home zone.
6. If you have two versions of the zone folder for the BCR hardware and a TouchOSC display, then copy those changes into both sets of zone files

Apologies if I left anything out.

Thanks.
Honestly, I'm a bit scared... I hate breaking something that works...

MM was doing all the heavy lifting, I was just a user/complainer.

There would be three zone folders, right, BCR2000, ipad touchOsc and computerOsc?

Wish me luck!

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by flipotto

Thanks.
Honestly, I'm a bit scared... I hate breaking something that works...

MM was doing all the heavy lifting, I was just a user/complainer.

There would be three zone folders, right, BCR2000, ipad touchOsc and computerOsc?

Wish me luck!

Just zip up your existing zone folders and keep the current CSI .dll backed up somewhere so you can go back if needed.

Otherwise, post here or in the device setup thread if you get into trouble.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by flipotto

Thanks.
Honestly, I'm a bit scared... I hate breaking something that works...

MM was doing all the heavy lifting, I was just a user/complainer.

There would be three zone folders, right, BCR2000, ipad touchOsc and computerOsc?

Wish me luck!

I think you need to ZIP up and post exactly what you have working now. I suspect that there are a few more stages between what you have and @funybot's upgrade guide.

Also bear in mind that this is still an experimental build and you might want to consider waiting until it coalesces into a release version, particularly if what you currently have is serving you well.

[Funkybot]

Good advice as per usual from MM.

I'm more of a "back it up and wing it" kind of guy. But there's no harm in letting others work out the kinks and waiting for an official release.

[jacksoonbrowne]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Makes sense, since we already have a tuning param for MIDI devices.

Hey Geoff,

I am fleshing out how to implement OSC message throttling.

I have attached a visio flow chart.

This is a similar approach that I used when using OSCII-BOT with success.

Please take a look and see what you think.


Cheers,
Roy

[Geoff Waddington]

New Exp build is up.

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/42044/CSI%20Exp.zip

FXMenu now always displays FX name.

Fix for RingStyle bug.

Possible fix for UDP overruns.

[Funkybot]

Hi Geoff, this build is not working for learning at all and I'm running into other weird issues. Reverting back to the prior Exp build fixes things. I've gone back and forth on the latest to the prior build twice just to be sure and it's definitely the new build acting up.

Things I'm seeing with the latest build:

1. LearnFXParams is not activating at all
2. At one point, I had two FX on a track, but the SelectedTrackFXMenu only showed one, the second one
3. Exiting Reaper with the SelectedTrackFXMenu visible did not clear out the SelectedTrackFXMenu, the TrackName, or other display items on the OSC tablet (things that normally clear)

...this was on Windows.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Hi Geoff, this build is not working for learning at all and I'm running into other weird issues. Reverting back to the prior Exp build fixes things. I've gone back and forth on the latest to the prior build twice just to be sure and it's definitely the new build acting up.

Things I'm seeing with the latest build:

1. LearnFXParams is not activating at all
2. At one point, I had two FX on a track, but the SelectedTrackFXMenu only showed one, the second one
3. Exiting Reaper with the SelectedTrackFXMenu visible did not clear out the SelectedTrackFXMenu, the TrackName, or other display items on the OSC tablet (things that normally clear)

...this was on Windows.

Thanks for testing !

Yup, this build is a mess on Windows

Used to be I could just test the Mac version and post a build...

Clearly those days are gone.

[fourdogslong]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Yup, this build is a mess on Windows

I will skip that build then, thanks for the heads up.

[andyp24]

Hi CSI team (Geoff and all the other regular contributors)

Congratulations on being considered for inclusion in the Reaper releases. It's a testament to your ingenuity and talents that they'd even think of doing that.

I have a couple of concerns/questions:

1) How would the CSI development cycle work if included in Reaper? I install pretty much every Reaper update when it comes out (obviously unless in the middle of important work). But if that automatically included a new version of CSI, requiring changes to Zones, syntax etc, that would be a real pain. It's much better for me to be able to update Reaper regularly, and choose when/if to update CSI infrequently.

2) Will any of this delay fixing the issues with SCE24? Unless I've missed an announcement (...entirely possible as I don't have time or brain power to follow this thread all the time) the last I heard there were still problems with the displays showing wrong info etc. Is there a roadmap for sorting this out please so it works reliably? (I do realise that's not necessarily entirely in the hands of the CSI team, as it may be SCE firmware-related)

Thanks all
Andy

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by andyp24

Hi CSI team (Geoff and all the other regular contributors)

Congratulations on being considered for inclusion in the Reaper releases. It's a testament to your ingenuity and talents that they'd even think of doing that.

I have a couple of concerns/questions:

1) How would the CSI development cycle work if included in Reaper? I install pretty much every Reaper update when it comes out (obviously unless in the middle of important work). But if that automatically included a new version of CSI, requiring changes to Zones, syntax etc, that would be a real pain. It's much better for me to be able to update Reaper regularly, and choose when/if to update CSI infrequently.

2) Will any of this delay fixing the issues with SCE24? Unless I've missed an announcement (...entirely possible as I don't have time or brain power to follow this thread all the time) the last I heard there were still problems with the displays showing wrong info etc. Is there a roadmap for sorting this out please so it works reliably? (I do realise that's not necessarily entirely in the hands of the CSI team, as it may be SCE firmware-related)

Thanks all
Andy

Haven't got to the point of defining deployment yet.

My preference would be to have Reaper install the CSI folder only if it wasn't already there, like Reaper's .ini files, etc.

As far as the dll/dylib, once again, my preference only, would be to have Reaper always install the dll/dylib, just like Reaper.exe.

That's why we are taking the time to test thoroughly and finalize the Learn based Zone definitions before we think about deployment.

Except for the aforementioned Learn Zones, there has been very little, if any, Zone def/syntax change for quite a while.

The whole idea is to get CSI super stable, such that, like Reaper, changes will be additive -- aka -- you can safely install a new CSI version and nothing will break.

As far as the Exp version, that will be similar to the Reaper pre-release versions.

Folks (mostly from this forum) will try out ideas, and once finalized, the changes will be promoted to the Reaper release.

Regarding the SCE24, once the aforementioned is complete, I will be directing a lot of my time toward getting the SCE24 solid.

I now have access to the firmware source code, and can provide small tweaks if we need them.

[andyp24]

Thanks Geoff

Andy