Old 05-21-2018, 06:10 PM   #1
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Default Crashes All the Time

Does Reaper have any known stability issues? I'm using the 64 bit version on 64 bit Windows 10 and I've encountered 5-10 crashes in the last week. I don't remember having near as many stability issues with Live Lite. I've got crashes on startup (most common), crashes when loading plugins, and crashes seemingly at random.
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Old 05-21-2018, 06:51 PM   #2
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Are you using Vst3?
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Old 05-21-2018, 07:12 PM   #3
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Default Running any scripts?

Do you have any scripts running?
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Old 05-21-2018, 10:47 PM   #4
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Just to set the base line, Reaper is in fact well known for its stability (!) so something somewhere in your setup and/or install isnt right.

Anyway - welcome to the forums but before we dig in to deeply, did you already download the free User Guide & also take a look at some of the excellent free video turtorials also available at reaper.fm?

First thing I would suggest is making sure your actual computer system is OK, so download & run resplendence,com`s latency checker which will highlight any issues with multitrack recording you may have. ( always possible with the silent updates Win10 keeps doing - it just reset all my bookmarks during the last update)
Once that is done & sprted out, you might want to re-download the latest reaper and install it as a portable install. This puts a new clean reaper install on your C: drive and leaves your initial install alone.
Then scan in your plugin locations and see if you have the same problems.

On your original install, WHERE have you installed your third party VST plugins? If you put them in Reapers own PLugins directory this could ne the cause of some if not all of your problems. ONLY Reapers plugins - which are pre-installed on setup - are supposed to be in this directory.
Most of us set up something like C:\Program Files\VST Plugins for all 64bit plugs & C:\Program Files(x86)\VST Plugins for 32bit plugins.

Lastly, it would help if you told us what Audio MIDI interface you are using & if you are also using the devices ASIO drivers, plus what plugins you are using.

Hopefully we can get you up and running quickly.
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Old 05-23-2018, 11:17 AM   #5
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Are you using Vst3?
I don't know? I'm using a few free vsts, MT Power 2, Sonivox Eighty Eight, and VSCO.
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Old 05-23-2018, 11:18 AM   #6
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Do you have any scripts running?
I have no idea, all I've done so far is record instruments via an external interface, and load a small selection of virtual sampled instruments.
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Old 05-23-2018, 11:24 AM   #7
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Just to set the base line, Reaper is in fact well known for its stability (!) so something somewhere in your setup and/or install isnt right.

Anyway - welcome to the forums but before we dig in to deeply, did you already download the free User Guide & also take a look at some of the excellent free video turtorials also available at reaper.fm?

First thing I would suggest is making sure your actual computer system is OK, so download & run resplendence,com`s latency checker which will highlight any issues with multitrack recording you may have. ( always possible with the silent updates Win10 keeps doing - it just reset all my bookmarks during the last update)
Once that is done & sprted out, you might want to re-download the latest reaper and install it as a portable install. This puts a new clean reaper install on your C: drive and leaves your initial install alone.
Then scan in your plugin locations and see if you have the same problems.

On your original install, WHERE have you installed your third party VST plugins? If you put them in Reapers own PLugins directory this could ne the cause of some if not all of your problems. ONLY Reapers plugins - which are pre-installed on setup - are supposed to be in this directory.
Most of us set up something like C:\Program Files\VST Plugins for all 64bit plugs & C:\Program Files(x86)\VST Plugins for 32bit plugins.

Lastly, it would help if you told us what Audio MIDI interface you are using & if you are also using the devices ASIO drivers, plus what plugins you are using.

Hopefully we can get you up and running quickly.
I see, so Reaper is very stable so long as we follow a very specific set of rules, like not putting plugins in the plugin folder. This seems like something that should have been addressed many versions ago, people (particularly newbs like me) are naturally going to put plugins into a folder titled "plugins", crashing as a result just points to poor design. I'm starting to understand that Reaper hasn't really been designed with user friendliness as a primary principle.

I'm currently demoing Reaper as an alternative to Ableton Live, and I need to know that Reaper is every bit as capable if not more. The fact that Ableton licenses can be transferred/sold, means that Reaper isn't as much of a value proposition to me as it might be to legions of broke college kids. I need to know that this is a serious Daw worth investing in long term. I'll move the plugins out of the folder, hopefully that will fix the issue, but consider this a bug report.
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Old 05-23-2018, 01:53 PM   #8
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Sometimes you can see what crashes Reaper with : control panel/ administration tools/Event Viewer.


"Event Viewer is an MMC snap-in used to view information about certain actions in Windows, called events.

Event Viewer can sometimes be used to identify a problem that has occurred in Windows, especially when an issue has occurred but no clear error message was received.

Events are stored in event logs. A number of Windows event logs exist, including Application, Security, System, Setup, and Forwarded Events.

Application specific and custom event logs exist in Event Viewer as well, logging events that occur with and are specific to certain programs."
https://www.lifewire.com/administrative-tools-2625804
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Old 05-23-2018, 01:54 PM   #9
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Sonivox plugins can be really crashy. VSCO is done with Maize Sampler which is also not really a paragon of stability...

Reaper itself is perfectly stable. If a plugin is giving you trouble, you can firewall it by running it in a dedicated process (right-click the plugin's name in the FX browser list before you load it, then you have "Run As" option there). Actually do this right now for the Sonivox and VSCO plugins and see what happens. If my assumption is correct (it's very often the case that it is ), then you will see plugins crashing eventually, but Reaper will continue standing (because plugins aren't hosted in Reaper's process with this method, they get their own processes - so they cannot take Reaper's process down).


Reaper is indeed a very serious DAW with very serious performance and CPU efficiency that Live cannot match.


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I see, so Reaper is very stable so long as we follow a very specific set of rules, like not putting plugins in the plugin folder. This seems like something that should have been addressed many versions ago, people (particularly newbs like me) are naturally going to put plugins into a folder titled "plugins", crashing as a result just points to poor design.

Protip: NEVER EVER put files that don't belong to the program in program's own folder. This goes for many other programs, too.

Also, for VST plugins, their default (although badly decided by Steinberg) location should be C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VstPlugins. But of course, you can place your plugins anywhere you want (just please don't put them within Program Files folder at all, some plugins will have issues writing data in there, because that's an OS protected location). In any case, I think crashes you're getting is not Reaper's fault, nor fault of plugins being in Reaper's "Plugins" folder - it's merely the fault of the plugins themselves.

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Old 05-23-2018, 02:15 PM   #10
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^This

I get the frustration but there will be some time to understand how to use Reaper or anything of truly sufficient complexity - not much unlike someone giving you the keys to a 737 and saying have at it - chances are you'll want to read the manual before taking off and cruising at 37k feet, no matter how easy and intuitive Cessnas are.

But if you do take the time, it will pay off exponentially.
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Old 05-23-2018, 02:39 PM   #11
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Reaper itself is perfectly stable.



In any case, I think crashes you're getting is not Reaper's fault, nor fault of plugins being in Reaper's "Plugins" folder - it's merely the fault of the plugins themselves.

^lol-must be getting blurring vision-- that's utterbollox--the only 1 your fooling is yourself there!?

heh--i sorta get it--are you a 101% diehard reaperfan who wants to work for cockos badly? !--> let's not mis_inform while celebrating a product in all it's gloriez!

heh--- am sure you very well check the flow of crash reports over the years that both justin and schwa can repeat themselves... =looking to fix as they do.
it's a great programme right now as is-but obviously it is still very much a work in progress..?
crashes are rare-but they are known to be there--see if we care,o yea.
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Old 05-23-2018, 02:42 PM   #12
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Also, for VST plugins, their default (although badly decided by Steinberg) location should be C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VstPlugins.
i have been using the same system since 2013 and i am so irritated that i stubbornly refused to use the dumb default steinberg folder (because all the installers default to it). at least my custom vst folder is pinned under quick access in windows explorer, so i can quickly copy the desired install path
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Old 05-23-2018, 04:20 PM   #13
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Also, for VST plugins, their default (although badly decided by Steinberg) location should be C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VstPlugins.
Agreed, the only empathy point I will give them is it began circa Windows 95/98, but it's been 20 years so I take the point back as they could have slowly mitigated it by now.
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Old 05-23-2018, 07:10 PM   #14
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looking to fix as they do.
it's a great programme right now as is-but obviously it is still very much a work in progress..?
crashes are rare-but they are known to be there--see if we care,o yea.
Each time Reaper crashes on me, I run it through a debugger to find out why. All of my crashes in the last ~18 months occurred for reasons other than Reaper. In the past 6 months, my crashes are exclusively because of Kontakt. I've not seen a crash inside Reaper's code in quite some time.
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Old 05-23-2018, 11:51 PM   #15
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I see, so Reaper is very stable so long as we follow a very specific set of rules
So with Ableton you just installed without reading a manual or indeed looking at how your audio MIDI interface should be connected to Ableton and never had any issues with it? Think back...
The suggestions I gave were all classic remedial steps for classic newbie mistakes in ANY DAW or indeed any software.

I am betting that you DID actually read the "how to get it working" section of Live`s user manual or watched an instructional video before you got down to working with it.
At least give Reaper the benefit of that much attention to the learning curve before randomly calling a standard system (plugin paths) a bug.
We ARE here to help, but you need to approach this whole thing with a little bit less of that "chip on my shoulder" attitude.

And of course just ask and we will try and help.
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Old 05-24-2018, 03:00 AM   #16
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it's a great programme right now as is-but obviously it is still very much a work in progress..?
crashes are rare-but they are known to be there--see if we care,o yea.
ALL programs are always work in progress, man.

Crashes are there yes, but in all of the cases I can recall, the fault was in the plugin, not Reaper (barring prereleases which are always bleeding edge and COULD have more crashy behaviour but that gets remedied extremely fast by Cockos). See Tack's post above. I don't remember the last time when Reaper crashed on me on its own, that it wasn't a plugin's fault, and I've been using Reaper for 9 years now. Soooo... Cut the bull, please.
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Old 05-24-2018, 05:41 AM   #17
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heh-i must be improving_can almost predict what comes next on these forums..
find it quite interesting what actually gets a reasponse or reaply,and what does not.
what bull?

do not get crashes all the time here--but thread title says otherwise--#shrugz#
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:40 PM   #18
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I just find it sad how many people arrive here and get all aggressive in their posts before they even get any answers from what is, after all, just a gathering of fellow users.
Wonder what its like when you are handling an official support forum?
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Old 05-30-2018, 12:01 PM   #19
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So with Ableton you just installed without reading a manual or indeed looking at how your audio MIDI interface should be connected to Ableton and never had any issues with it? Think back...
Yes...
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Old 05-30-2018, 12:03 PM   #20
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I just find it sad how many people arrive here and get all aggressive in their posts before they even get any answers from what is, after all, just a gathering of fellow users.
Wonder what its like when you are handling an official support forum?
Not fun, I've done it before as an IT Network Professional. You think my polite bug report and statement of fact, that Reaper needs to be more than cheap for me to use it is "aggressive". You ain't seen nothing dude
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Old 05-31-2018, 09:19 AM   #21
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Not fun, I've done it before as an IT Network Professional. You think my polite bug report and statement of fact, that Reaper needs to be more than cheap for me to use it is "aggressive". You ain't seen nothing dude



You: "I see, so Reaper is very stable so long as we follow a very specific set of rules, like not putting plugins in the plugin folder. This seems like something that should have been addressed many versions ago, people (particularly newbs like me) are naturally going to put plugins into a folder titled "plugins", crashing as a result just points to poor design. I'm starting to understand that Reaper hasn't really been designed with user friendliness as a primary principle."

And you REALLY never sought any help etc on Ableton or whatever your first DAW was? I came to Reaper after years with a MIDI only sequencer, followed by several years with Cakewalk Sonar & I had to crack the books with both of them, so doing so with Reaper was a no-brainer for me. Funnily enough I also had a similar experience to you when I had a go on Logic first time around and Ableton - found them both impenetrable!!!

Ah, well. Thats why there is strawberry and vanilla I guess.
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Old 05-31-2018, 09:47 AM   #22
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people are naturally going to put plugins into a folder titled "plugins", crashing as a result just points to poor design
First, DAWs aside, the fact that a folder is labeled "plugins" doesn't mean you should be putting your DLLs in it. If there was a folder in c:\windows titled "plugins", would you assume that's where you put your DAW plugins? The Reaper directory is not yours. This is just basic computer usage.

Second, nobody said that is specifically what's causing your crashes. People are just trying to help you troubleshoot. Do you want help, or are you trying lord your potential $60 over us as if we give a shit? This is a user forum. The thought was that maybe putting your DLLs in a weird place could cause issues for those plugins.

By default, Reaper runs plugins in the same process as Reaper (among other things, this allows Reaper to embed the plugin's UI inside Reaper's FX chain window). That means if a plugin crashes, it can bring down the entire Reaper process. This is not stability issue in Reaper whatsoever -- that's a completely unavoidable side effect of running foreign code inside the Reaper process.

You can change this behavior globally by going to Preferences -> Plug-ins -> Compatibility, and change the VST bridging/firewalling setting to "in separate plug-in process". You can change this behavior for individual plug-ins by right clicking them in the FX browser and selecting "Run as".

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I'm currently demoing Reaper as an alternative to Ableton Live, and I need to know that Reaper is every bit as capable if not more.
I promise you it both is and isn't. This is true of almost any DAW. I came to Reaper after using Cubase for 10 years. Cubase has features Reaper doesn't, like automatic tempo mapping, track versions, chord maps, etc. Reaper has features Cubase doesn't, like infinitely flexible routing, deep customizability/scripting, etc. as well as requiring no dongle, being much smaller and faster, far less buggy, much more stable (yes), having a vastly superior editing workflow, etc.

You will find the same is true with Ableton. Reaper will kick the shit out of it in many ways, but the reverse is probably true. I'm not an Ableton user, so I can't tell you specifically how, but this is just inevitable. If I was doing EDM, I might be tempted to use Ableton, because I like the suite of plugins and synths that are built-in to it, how they're laid out in the main window, etc.

But after using Cubase for a decade, Reaper was a god send. It's technically elegant, and the UI is incredibly well designed in most of the ways that matter to me.

Last edited by EricTbone; 05-31-2018 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 06-01-2018, 10:50 AM   #23
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I'm currently demoing Reaper as an alternative to Ableton Live, and I need to know that Reaper is every bit as capable if not more.
Eric replied to this statement really well, but I'll just add that every workflow for every DAW user is personal... so your needs will be unique. Like Eric said, Live does some things that Reaper does not do, and vice versa.

Many (probably most) folks here are experienced in several DAWs, and as you'll discover, every DAW has its strengths. You can get a good idea if Reaper is right for you by comparison if you ask detailed questions here of course, but nothing is better than testing things out yourself.

In this case, I would personally not consider Live and Reaper to be alternatives to each other... but rather compliments to each other. But that's just me. It depends on what you're doing.

Reaper has a notoriously steeper learning curve to get at some of the real "power" features. I've used it for many years, but only recently started pushing it, and to my shock, I discovered some insanely powerful features that had been there for years, tucked away in a menu somewhere. So don't be surprised if Reaper takes some effort and time to understand how it will work best for your personal needs. You might be as surprised as I've been.

As for the whole stability issue though, I will say that Reaper is easily one of the most stable DAWs I've used, but it's not perfect of course, like anything else. As has been mentioned, certain plugins are usually the culprits, and a test for that has been offered already in this thread.

If you encounter a crash, you as an IT pro know of course, that you'll need to create a repeatable series of steps for it to get solved. So definitely document exactly what causes it with precise steps, along with all the key variables like version numbers, etc... Speaking from experience, the forum here is one of the most knowledgeable DAW forums I've seen, but no one can help if the details aren't there.

If the bug can be repeated and verified, then the developers are usually very responsive. Good luck! And welcome to Reaper!
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Old 06-01-2018, 12:39 PM   #24
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Reaper has a notoriously steeper learning curve to get at some of the real "power" features. [..] So don't be surprised if Reaper takes some effort and time to understand how it will work best for your personal needs.
I know this is a popular sentiment, but it honestly surprises me every time I see it.

I used Cubase for a decade, yet after a few months of using Reaper I understand it at a far deeper level.

Cubase tries to make everything easy for you, so it's full of special-case work flows. For instance, "instrument" tracks are different from audio tracks, have extra buttons, have some special internal routing magic that makes them work which is opaque to the user. There's a larger surface area of things you have to know to work in the app and their inner workings are more obscured. There's more memorization involved than actually understanding.

Reaper is conceptually simpler, because it respects economy of concepts. It has a smaller set of orthogonal abstractions, which are fairly easy to understand in depth. Once they're understood you know how to build whatever you need.

As an engineer, I find Reaper to be elegant in a way that Cubase just isn't. I find it to be more scrutable, completely knowable. It reminds me of elegant little computer languages like Lua, where a handful of very carefully chosen abstractions gives you tons of expressive power while keeping the semantic burden very low.

I suspect I'm not the only one who feels this way, which is why Reaper gets as much love as it does. It's a breath of fresh air coming from tools that are more bloated, not just in terms of disk size, but in terms of overlapping features.
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Old 06-01-2018, 01:05 PM   #25
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I know this is a popular sentiment, but it honestly surprises me every time I see it.

I used Cubase for a decade, yet after a few months of using Reaper I understand it at a far deeper level.

Cubase tries to make everything easy for you, so it's full of special-case work flows. For instance, "instrument" tracks are different from audio tracks, have extra buttons, have some special internal routing magic that makes them work which is opaque to the user. There's a larger surface area of things you have to know to work in the app and their inner workings are more obscured. There's more memorization involved than actually understanding.

Reaper is conceptually simpler, because it respects economy of concepts. It has a smaller set of orthogonal abstractions, which are fairly easy to understand in depth. Once they're understood you know how to build whatever you need.

As an engineer, I find Reaper to be elegant in a way that Cubase just isn't. I find it to be more scrutable, completely knowable. It reminds me of elegant little computer languages like Lua, where a handful of very carefully chosen abstractions gives you tons of expressive power while keeping the semantic burden very low.

I suspect I'm not the only one who feels this way, which is why Reaper gets as much love as it does. It's a breath of fresh air coming from tools that are more bloated, not just in terms of disk size, but in terms of overlapping features.

That was beautifully written, had to quote it.

I agree with 90-95% of your statement, and I'm only recently starting to arrive at that understanding, with minor differences.

The primary difference is that IMO there is a giant gap with Reaper and getting to that kind of understanding for *many* people. Yes, I think there are indeed many Reaper users who *naturally* gravitate and align the way you mention, and so for those people, the learning curve will be a natural extension of their thinking process. They might say, "what learning curve are you talking about? It's a breath of fresh air!"

However, I think for many more -- perhaps a majority -- of people who experience Reaper will have to go through a steeper learning curve to "get the picture" of what Reaper really is. Once they do, things really click. Case in point is literally *every* person I've shown Reaper to has had a harder time understanding it than many other DAWs. And many of those folks give up before they get it, unfortunately.

Also, I think the design philosophy of Reaper, coupled with Justin's VERY understated marketing approach, leaves many powerful features hidden and not very well marketed, so it can take a while to find out what's really new. Case in point is the amazing Subprojects feature, which was released as a minor point release without fanfare, but would have been a major release headliner with any other DAW.

Anyway, bottom line is that DAWs are tools for the artist/engineer/producer and we all have our unique needs and perspectives. Some people will naturally "get" what Reaper is all about. It took me years! :-) But now that I do understand the philosophy, I can see the elegance and also crazy power in some of the features.

My two bits.
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Old 06-01-2018, 01:06 PM   #26
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I suspect I'm not the only one who feels this way
You aren't. I fell right into it and purchased the same day I downloaded it - I never really got the curve part other than the initial time to get things set up just the way one personally wants.
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Old 06-01-2018, 01:08 PM   #27
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Just to throw one possible reason for the crashing into the pool. The ONLY time I've had any crashes with REAPER since I first switched over in early 2015 was in the beginning, which was indeed my own fault...

I was using media actively in my projects that were contained ON an external USB drive. Many external (mechanical) drives have functions where they spin down when data isn't being actively streamed from them. So, REAPER would read data from a file on the external disk, have it saved in cache, and not need to read directly from the disk unless that file/path was changed. Whenever I'd attempt to add new media to the project from the drive, or playback media I hadn't cached from a previously closed session, REAPER would crash.

This is literally the only REAPER-specific issue I've had as far as instability in my entire time using it (daily, over the last 3 years at least). The program's stability merits are well-known and backed up. There's always an adjustment period when finding a new DAW to switch to.
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Old 06-01-2018, 05:04 PM   #28
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I’m trying to use all of googles might to find a thread in any forum that contains the term vcso without the term crash on the same page.

Good luck
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