I have been learning about pin connectors and wanted to share what I have learned. It's always educational for me too as others chime in.
I had a goal to copy the Angus Young AC/DC guitar sound on various albums. Besides the guitar/amp and micing I noticed on many songs his guitar is panned hard right dry and at about 10 o'clock in the left channel is a big reverb version of the guitar pulled back a bit in volume creating a great sound. So I wanted to do all that on one track and I got it working. The distortion comes from a mic'd guitar amp and not a plugin.
So here it is.
I have 4 plugins: compressor, reverb, pan and mixer. The trick is learning how pins work. Lets go through the signal flow from left to right. To do this easily I recommend installing the amazing Routing Matrix as seen in the 2nd screenshot. https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....Routing+Matrix
Ok, here we go.... The track is a mono recording but I want to do stereo panning so we will use both 1 and 2 which are the Left and Right channels respectively.
First up is the PSP oldTimer compressor. It gets channels 1 & 2 in and outputs also on 1 & 2.
1 & 2 then go into the EMpTy250 reverb and are output on 1 & 2 of the reverb but are assigned to pins 3 & 4 (look to the far left IN column). Those are the pins for input on left and output on far right.
So even though the reverb is outputting it's 1 & 2, I am not letting it go to 1 & 2 but instead putting its' output onto 3 & 4 pins. That to me is important to grasp. As a troubleshooting tip, you can load up the JS: WigWare Multi-Channel Peak VU Meter and it will show all of the channels (up to 16) that have audio on them.
So at this point I have a compressed guitar on 1 & 2 and compressed / reverbed guitar on 3 & 4. What is interesting is that if I opened the pin connector on the reverb and turned off the output pin 3 then I only get Right channel because I have effectively stopped the output for the Left on 3.
Ok, so with the output of the compressed / reverb on 3 & 4 the signal goes to the next FX which is JS: Volume/Pan Smoother V5. This simply takes the input in on 3 & 4 and routes it out on the same 3 & 4 while providing the ability to change volume and pan. This where I pan -31.8 and volume -2dB for my reverb effect. Actual values not in the screenshot.
Now we go to the 8x Stereo 1x Stereo Mixer. This is where the dry guitar (on 1 & 2) and the reverbed guitar on 3 & 4 come together to output a stereo signal on 1 & 2. Since I only want dry in the right channel though I lift the input to the mixer on 1 (left channel). This is what had me scratching my head. If you lift it on both the in and out, the signal will just pass under the effect and still go out so what you have to do is tell the track to USE the output of the effect (enabling pin 1 on the output) and then starve the effect (disable input on pin 1). That way it forces the effect to be used for that channels (pins) source and with no input you get nothing.
So, the mixer gets just the dry guitar on channel/pin 2 and the reverbed (panned to 10 o'clock) on 3 & 4. Then I adjust the mix to taste with the faders in the 8x Stereo FX and I'm done.
If you use the WigWare meter you will notice that if you disable the outputs on 3 & 4 the signal still comes through. As you can see in the screenshot, if you disable an output, Reaper simply bypasses the effect for that channel/pin and passes the signal through. Intuitively I would expect a disabled output to stop the flow but that is not the case and VERY important to remember. This screenshot below illustrates that.
I hope this helps and feel free to let me know if I missed a concept. Thanks !!! If anyone wants to make a more in depth video please feel free !
hey Coachz, thanks for posting this. I admit, I've not had much success in grasping this concept. This definitely helps and is a good example to showcase many different options. I have read through this twice now, and I MUST get that routing matrix!
Question: are there any advantages to processing like this on one track, in terms of cpu load, etc? or, disadvantages?
just adding that the ac dc guitar sound is, has well, based on a wireless guitar system (Schaffer Vega wireless) they found to be great for live and introduced in studio. The guitar tech has some notes on it, just search the web and you´ll find it.
Thanks for sharing your chains.
hey Coachz, thanks for posting this. I admit, I've not had much success in grasping this concept. This definitely helps and is a good example to showcase many different options. I have read through this twice now, and I MUST get that routing matrix!
Question: are there any advantages to processing like this on one track, in terms of cpu load, etc? or, disadvantages?
just adding that the ac dc guitar sound is, has well, based on a wireless guitar system (Schaffer Vega wireless) they found to be great for live and introduced in studio. The guitar tech has some notes on it, just search the web and you´ll find it.
Thanks for sharing your chains.
I run a les Paul into a solo Dallas storm that emulates the wireless and into a Marshall dsl40cr. Dreamy setup for acdc.
Slightly off topic but see if this FX chain is of any use. I built it last year, basically it works like this...
1. Load it on a track as a receive destination (replace the reverb with what you want just set the pins for it to the same as reaverberate)...
2. On the sending track send 1/2 > 3/4 and/or 1/2 > 1/2 to this FX track.
The send to 3/4 always outputs an effected mirror image of the track's pan position so if the instrument is panned to 10 o'clock, the reverb is at 2 o'clock, 9/3, 8/4 and so on.
The send for 1/2 is the opposite, the verb is always in the same spot as the instrument (you can blend 1/2 and 3/4 to get precise placements). So between the two you can get pretty fancy (and automatic) with reverb vs instrument placement.
I use it for similar reasons, a lot of LCR mixes use ambience, reverb, delay whathaveyou on the opposing side, in order to get the width but not be too out of place where there is usually nothing in the right speaker (and keeps the verb et al from smearing up the instrument it's applied to). You can pan freely and the verb automatically pans to the mirror position. I'm playing with it here as an example, I'm not trying to recreate any tone/sound here, just demoing the fx chain's reverb placement, I way over do the reverb so it can be heard...
Also works with delays, doesn't work with every verb but does with reaverb, reaverberate, Pro-R, Liquidsonics and probably others. What I like is how simple it is for what it does.
__________________ Music is what feelings sound like.
Last edited by karbomusic; 01-22-2019 at 09:42 PM.
Slightly off topic but see if this FX chain is of any use. I built it last year, basically it works like this...
1. Load it on a track as a receive destination (replace the reverb with what you want just set the pins for it to the same as reaverberate)...
2. On the sending track send 1/2 > 3/4 and/or 1/2 > 1/2 to this FX track.
The send to 3/4 always outputs an effected mirror image of the track's pan position so if the instrument is panned to 10 o'clock, the reverb is at 2 o'clock, 9/3, 8/4 and so on.
The send for 1/2 is the opposite, the verb is always in the same spot as the instrument (you can blend 1/2 and 3/4 to get precise placements). So between the two you can get pretty fancy (and automatic) with reverb vs instrument placement.
I use it for similar reasons, a lot of LCR mixes use ambience, reverb, delay whathaveyou on the opposing side, in order to get the width but not be too out of place where there is usually nothing in the right speaker (and keeps the verb et al from smearing up the instrument it's applied to). You can pan freely and the verb automatically pans to the mirror position. I'm playing with it here as an example, I'm not trying to recreate any tone/sound here, just demoing the fx chain's reverb placement, I way over do the reverb so it can be heard...
Also works with delays, doesn't work with every verb but does with reaverb, reaverberate, Pro-R, Liquidsonics and probably others. What I like is how simple it is for what it does.
Yeah I had read that thread but it is not part of my install and the only link I saw there was for documentation and I download it and it's just text files
My regular Reaper install where I always update on top of it still has it. But fresh default install doesn't seem to have it anymore, so it seems it has been removed from the install package at some point. There's still 8-channel input switcher (IXix), but that is a bit different.
My regular Reaper install where I always update on top of it still has it. But fresh default install doesn't seem to have it anymore, so it seems it has been removed from the install package at some point. There's still 8-channel input switcher (IXix), but that is a bit different.
That's a bummer, those are very handy at times. I suppose I have it because I do the same as you, I've been installing "on top of" since probably 2010.
__________________ Music is what feelings sound like.
Slightly off topic but see if this FX chain is of any use. I built it last year, basically it works like this...
1. Load it on a track as a receive destination (replace the reverb with what you want just set the pins for it to the same as reaverberate)...
2. On the sending track send 1/2 > 3/4 and/or 1/2 > 1/2 to this FX track.
The send to 3/4 always outputs an effected mirror image of the track's pan position so if the instrument is panned to 10 o'clock, the reverb is at 2 o'clock, 9/3, 8/4 and so on.
The send for 1/2 is the opposite, the verb is always in the same spot as the instrument (you can blend 1/2 and 3/4 to get precise placements). So between the two you can get pretty fancy (and automatic) with reverb vs instrument placement.
I use it for similar reasons, a lot of LCR mixes use ambience, reverb, delay whathaveyou on the opposing side, in order to get the width but not be too out of place where there is usually nothing in the right speaker (and keeps the verb et al from smearing up the instrument it's applied to). You can pan freely and the verb automatically pans to the mirror position. I'm playing with it here as an example, I'm not trying to recreate any tone/sound here, just demoing the fx chain's reverb placement, I way over do the reverb so it can be heard...
Also works with delays, doesn't work with every verb but does with reaverb, reaverberate, Pro-R, Liquidsonics and probably others. What I like is how simple it is for what it does.
I got the Switcher and got it working but I hesitate to adjust verb pan position using two reverb volume controls. I think I prefer to set the pan position and set the volume separately. Thanks for sharing though !
I think I prefer to set the pan position and set the volume separately. Thanks for sharing though !
So do I so not sure what ^that means. If it's set up right, you just use the single pan knob on the track and everything just works, no need to touch anything else (like in the video); that simplicity was sort of the point. AKA works like any FX send buss except the FX is mirrored. But no biggie either way.
__________________ Music is what feelings sound like.
If it's set up right, you just use the single pan knob on the track and everything just works, no need to touch anything else (like the video); that simplicity was sort of the point. But no biggie either way.
So how would you pan the guitar hard right but the reverb on it to 10 o'clock ?
So how would you pan the guitar hard right but the reverb on it to 10 o'clock ?
For that you would you have to use 1/2 and 3/4 and blend those two send volumes to achieve 10 o'clock if the guitar is hard right. That makes more sense as to what you said; it can be done with this setup by blending those but it was more designed for LCR and/or that van halen 1 LCR guitar thing that's mirrored. I use it for mostly for LCR or to get the verb out from under the actual instrument placement wise. I've done entire mixes like that where anything that's left has verb in the right and vice versa.
__________________ Music is what feelings sound like.
For that you would you have to use 1/2 and 3/4 and blend those two send volumes to achieve 10 o'clock if the guitar is hard right. That makes more sense as to what you said; it can be done with this setup by blending but it was more designed for LCR and/or that van halen 1 LCR guitar thing that's mirrored. I use it for LCR mostly and to get the verb out from under the actual instrument placement wise.