I am recording a version of We Are The Champions and have decided to push the boat out with the harmonies. I have recorded 6 different singers, all singing the same line (ala Queen) and so far, it sounds massive.
My problem is that when I try to blend it with the mix, it gets a bit lost so I was wondering what methods like eq, compression do I need to do to make the vocals sit in the mix yet be able to hear everything else?
What do you suggest?
Thanks
It's not uncommon to high pass backing / harmony vocals quite aggressively. The "phantom fundamental" is your friend here. So you can usually bring up the cut-off until they start sounding quite thin - in isolation.
And compress them, also, pretty hard.
The other thing is to look at your mix & try to figure out what's masking the vox. Consider some (dynamic ? sidechained ?) eq on whatever that is. There's great gizmos such as "Trackspacer" - wavesfactory - which make this kind of thing easy, but you can do it with stock plugins.
__________________ it's meant to sound like that...
As you get higher up in the harmonies pull out more of the lows below a thousand cycles. Also if you have them sing the same part twice and pan one left and one right you get an amazing thickness.
Another trick is to have all six singers sing each part together one at a time so let's say it's a four-part harmony, have all six sing the first part panning that left then do it again panning that right, then do it again for the other three parts.
A touch of 130 milliseconds slap back and some medium room plate reverb can do wonders also.
Also if you have them sing the same part twice and pan one left and one right you get an amazing thickness.
Which may collapse to a phasey mess in less than good listening conditions.
It's not wise to lean on panning to give you separation. It's great, but will disappear in a lot of listening settings. And then you're back where you started.
__________________ it's meant to sound like that...
Which may collapse to a phasey mess in less than good listening conditions.
It's not wise to lean on panning to give you separation. It's great, but will disappear in a lot of listening settings. And then you're back where you started.
Unison parts sung by the same singer, panned L&R are very unlikely to cause phase cancellation. Unison parts sung by different singers and panned L&R will almost never result in phase cancellation.
However, you will get a much wider sound if you are panning different harmonies, rather than unison parts.
However, you will get a much wider sound if you are panning
You won't get a "wider sound" unless the (stereo) listening conditions are good. And besides, the OP's question is not about this, rather they're having issues with the vox getting "lost". We can create the illusion of separation with panning, but this is fragile. Far better to sort out the eq / masking problems. Then consider the stereo sugar. This is basic stuff.
And indeed, using my ears, theoretically weakly correlated, but very similar, panned sounds will give me a sensation of "phasey-ness" & indistinctness when they're brought to the centre.
Maybe that's just me.
__________________ it's meant to sound like that...
I am recording a version of We Are The Champions and have decided to push the boat out with the harmonies. I have recorded 6 different singers, all singing the same line (ala Queen) and so far, it sounds massive.
My problem is that when I try to blend it with the mix, it gets a bit lost so I was wondering what methods like eq, compression do I need to do to make the vocals sit in the mix yet be able to hear everything else?
What do you suggest?
Thanks
To start with, it is a little tough to make specific suggestions without really knowing what you are currently doing.
That said...
If you are not currently using a high pass filter on the instruments that are not bass/kick drum/maybe piano?
I would think about starting there. Once the instruments(except for the ones that I just mentioned...) have been high passed, take another listen and see if it gets you closer to where you would like to be as far as the background vocals being a bit less "Lost..."
Once you've made that call, you can take more steps from there.
Regardless, if we're taking Queen as an example, you shouldn't even be thinking about how to mix those big group vocals until you've studied how Queen place them in an arrangement.
Space is always made for them, particularly when singing lyrics. Often the guitar riff will stop and the guitar will play sustained chords, for example. There won't often be instruments playing in the same register as the vocals, etc..
The arrangement is the most powerful tool to get parts heard.
When it comes to mixing, they are mixed like a lead instrument. Especially when singing lyrics, they swamp the drums, piano and guitar. Don't be afraid of dramatic mix moves. Listen to some Queen songs and hear how "unbalanced" those mixes become to get the big group vocals sounding dramatic.
Which may collapse to a phasey mess in less than good listening conditions.
It's not wise to lean on panning to give you separation. It's great, but will disappear in a lot of listening settings. And then you're back where you started.
Creating separation in the mix is the entire point of panning.
Creating separation in the mix is the entire point of panning.
If you're successful enough to have your music played in the supermarket, then mono translation is a consideration.
Otherwise, I mean it's often the sign of a good mix, but it isn't the be all and end all.
Panning has been used to create space since stereo was invented. Interestingly, of you listen to Queen II, you'll hear mono group vocals panned hard left, hard right and up the middle. So kinda mono, but not...
If you're successful enough to have your music played in the supermarket, then mono translation is a consideration.
This is true, but it's not just that. If you're not in your monitors (or home speakers) sweet spot, the stereo illusion suffers, once you've got back a few feet, it's really starting to collapse. If you step out through the door, it's gone.
And that's a proper stereo system. In the real world, outside your studio, there's lots of mono (or barely stereo) setups. Like judders says, supermarkets. Also hotel lobbies, clubs and bars. Kids playing stuff on tinny phone speakers. TVs. Soundbars. DAB radios. On-hold music. ... etc. I dunno if it's fair to say that the majority of settings where music is consumed offer weak, distorted, or no stereo, but it has to be a sizeable chunk.
Wasn't saying that you can't use stereo to enhance separation. It's great. But you can't rely on it. And that's OK, because it's not the only way.
Like Harrison said 'If you don't know where you are going... all roads will get you there." So I suggest you come up with the EXACT reason or purpose you want multiple voices. Once you clarify this - things get REAL ez imho. It is worth it to look back on early G Matin/Beatles isolated vocal tracks... and see how they become massive. On their own - often not good sounding. In one way you have to CHOOSE the most important frequency of the most important choral part. Find that one tracks 'essence' and strip everything else out. Editing and cutting is more friend than foe with large bandwidth and large frequency vocal conglomerations. Use the other vocals to 'fit' in and support the main frequency. Producing is all about choices... get to a place where there is no further choices to edit in OR out.
When you pre-produce in your head; it eliminates probable rabbit holes and confusion later... Knowing this... you probably would have 'optimized' your sound capture during recording/tracking? Once example is to move to track with some 'omni mics' especially for back up or multiple vocals. They have a way of eliminating lower mud and prox. effect. BUT capture the high frequency tinge ~ that cuts through the mix.
Homework here: place the vocals tracks on a graphic spectrum analyzer (sonic visualizer is free) and you SHOULD see the mess. To get things to stand out front often you have to push other things WAY back in the mix. Dynamic contrast/compliment/counterpoint are great perspectives.
Massive sounding is not always a good thing. Cut back and simplify and re-work it outwardly. Do things like this... If I could only use ONE singer what would that one be? If I could only use 2? why... etc. best of luck...
Multitracked vocals
Linear Mode
