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Old 07-26-2015, 06:36 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by dea-man View Post
The rub is knowing exactly which of those background processes one can safely remove or shut off.
The Black Viper website has been around forever and he's sort of an internet legend.

He lists all services (for Win XP to Win 10) and tells you which ones are safe to turn off, which ones can be set to manual, etc.

See here: http://www.blackviper.com/.

Enjoy.


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Old 07-26-2015, 10:08 PM   #82
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Win 10 Home (and I don't have the pro version of 8.1, so my understanding is that 10 Home is all I could get unless I spend $200) will apparently not allow the user to disable the automatic downloading and installation of updates, which is a total non-starter for me...
I should use bold and the largest font size for that quote

Forced updates are an absolute no-go, especially for DAWs. MS released so many buggy patches in the past, that I would never ever install any patch on day one.

That's exactly the reason, why I will stay on Win7.

Win10 Home needs to be boykotted ... that's the only way to stop this nonsense, but the masses are too stupid, so that will never happen.
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Old 07-26-2015, 11:25 PM   #83
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There is a great reason Microsoft would want to have their updates as clean and stable as possible this time around. Before W10, they didn't really have any kind of proper beta testing in place. They had betas, but that was mostly worthless as betas were essentially the product to be released, so they could only gather feedback but not act upon it... not until the next SP, at least. Now they have proper agile development in place, with three rounds of testing: internal Microsoft, Insider fast lane, Insider slow lane, and THEN after everything is thoroughly tested and green light is given, only then it gets pushed to W10 Home users. W10 Pro will be able to defer updates and reschedule them, and AFAIK Enterprise users will be able to disable them. Rolling back updates is also entirely possible.


I think this is in fact a great thing - both for advancing the OS, and especially for developers (developers, developers, developers...!) to take advantage of the new stuff that will be coming (like for example audio aggregation, native Thunderbolt support, MIDI over Bluetooth, etc.).
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Old 07-27-2015, 03:33 AM   #84
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Everytime I do these upgrades MS shoots me a 32-bit version. They recently did that to me when I upgraded to 8.1. I have upgraded my system so it has a 64-bit processor but I have to wonder if MS is once again going to download a 32-bit version of W10 if I decide to upgrade? Is there any way to get a 64-bit upgrade or do I have to spend $$ ...



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Old 07-27-2015, 04:19 AM   #85
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Speaking of Swedish kronors, I wonder if there will be an ridiculous good timelimited offer this time, and that to me would be the same as 'free' almost like Reaper.

Be careful not wasteing converting your 7 keys is one thought should you not be happy.
Feel free to correct me if one can convert back to 7 once one have converted to 10.
Ps, as in, I don't yet know so, just a theory.
*me hides* :P :P
Ps2, no worries MS I am going 10.
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:13 AM   #86
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There is a great reason Microsoft would want to have their updates as clean and stable as possible this time around.I think this is in fact a great thing - both for advancing the OS, and especially for developers (developers, developers, developers...!)
It's great for everyone except low-budget Windows Home users that need precise control of their system, which includes most DAW users.

It's fair for MS to say "well, that's a pro need, so pay $200 and upgrade to pro if you want to turn off automatic updates", it's just a bummer if you don't want to pay $200, especially since we could turn off automatic updates in non-pro windows (and just about every other piece of software or OS) since forever.

I don't even want my DAW sync'ing the time over the internet while i'm trying to record, much less downloading and preparing updates to the very operating system I'm relying on. If I depended on income from a recording business? Fugeddaboutit: I'd cling to 8.1 longer than I did XP. :-) (or grudgingly buy Pro).

I also work mainly in Linux and bounce back and forth between the OS's frequently. I have zero tolerance for Windows deciding it's time to install a new version of silverlight or whatever and telling me "hang on, installing updates" when I just want to restart into Linux. I know: there will probably be some control of when the update actually gets installed. I still predict a few frustrated people who's big presentation gets delayed, etc.

Every time it installs an update (which is pretty frequently, judging from the past, and that's assuming that 100% of the time you will even be able to tell when an update is installed) you're going to need to run through all the system startup locations and make sure nothing new is starting up, run through the services and make sure nothing serious was installed or re-enabled, etc. And if you have a serious client coming in, you'll want to do some testing to make sure there aren't any new buffer overruns or other audio glitches happening, and then you just cross your fingers that there won't be any dialogs popping up out of nowhere, or that any changed drivers haven't introduced any new bugs. Seems like a big pain to me.

The optimistic view is that it will probably take ~10m for some hacker to figure out how to disable it (beyond simply firewalling microsoft IPs), but I'd like to see all that stabilize before I consider upgrading.
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:24 AM   #87
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I wonder how it will interact with the firewall. I have outgoing traffic blocked by default and only my web browser and the core network has exceptions.

This means I have to turn it off temporarily to authenticate plugs or run update and such. (It's secure enough anyway since I am behind a NAT Router).

Will Win10's updating circumbob the firewall, or will this strategy still work I wonder.

In any case, best to make a system image before updating!
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:26 AM   #88
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I would never suggest anyone to use Home for a DAW computer. That's just me, though.


Also, Windows Update is idle time process, it won't happen when there's stuff going on (like recording), and you can schedule it, too. In Professional, you can defer updates, too.
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:48 AM   #89
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I would never suggest anyone to use Home for a DAW computer. That's just me, though.
you're not the first person i've heard that from. why is this?
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:52 AM   #90
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I bet the updates come thick and fast at the beginning too, when the general public start using it.

I have not had a problems with DAW work yet using Home Premium.
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:53 AM   #91
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Well, as for W7, it's about maximum RAM allowed (Home was 16 GB max, Pro was 192). W8 bumped that up to 128 on Home and 512 on Pro. Not sure what the limits are going to be on W10 Home, but that one probably doesn't matter much for most DAWs I suppose.

I'd still go Pro simply because there's more things you can configure compared to Home (and that's a rule of thumb with Windows).
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Old 07-27-2015, 08:12 AM   #92
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That's not what I meant, you install the update and THEN go through the option in Settings > update&security > recovery > advanced startup > Troubleshoot > Reset this PC > Remove everything

That will basically do a clean install.
Does this mean it has become relatively easy to do a complete restore in Windows?

The reason I ask, is that over the past 25 years of using Windows I have had to erase hard drives and start over to fix a glitch multiple times. It always has been a royal PITA.

A couple weeks ago I ran into the same situation with a Mac when Apple Care's 3rd level tech said, "You need to completely erase your hard drive, and reinstall everything."

I had visions of spending 2 days reinstalling software. As it turned out, there is a "restore boot-up" command by using the start switch immediately followed by Command-R.

This took me to a window that let me erase the drive, reinstall Yosemite directly from Apple's website, then reinstall everything else from a Time-Machine backup. The entire process took less than 2 hours, and only required me to be at the computer for 3 or 4 minutes of it. Everything reinstalled, the computer glitch was gone, and I didn't have to reinstall each app and its data one at a time. This was waaaaay toooo easy!

Is there a way to do this in Win7 and/or Win10?

Thanks

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Old 07-27-2015, 08:45 AM   #93
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I just cloned my 500gb system disk onto a 2tb new disk under win8.1 with zero issues.
I had to make about 3 or 4 clicks, tell it I wntend the whole of th new dis as one big partition and off it went unattended.
n hour later the clone was doen.
Disconnected the old C: drive and hooked up the new one, switched on and it was like nothing had changed apart from I now had a ton of room on the C: drive I didnt have before.
Dead easy, using the free version of easeus ToDo backup, but I could just as easily have used the free version of Acronis True Image.
FWIW I would never trust either Apple or MS with my data for a backup.
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Old 07-27-2015, 11:05 AM   #94
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Before W10, they didn't really have any kind of proper beta testing in place.
And I highly doubt it's better now, because the Insider Program is for testing new features, not a public beta test group for typical Windows Updates.

MS released many, many patches, that were a pure disaster on day one and released version 2 a week later. And I'm talking not only about Windows, but also server systems like Exchange. And you can count on it, patch quality will not become better in the near future!

That's why I always (!) wait a minimum of a week, until I install new patches ... this way I avoided much trouble. And this won't no longer possible with Win 10 Home, except when I deactivate the Windows Update service, what I don't want, because I want patch notifications.

This politics by MS is pure crap and Win 10 Home an absolute no-go for many customers. And there's only one reason for that politics, they want us to buy Pro.
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Old 07-27-2015, 11:42 AM   #95
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And I highly doubt it's better now, because the Insider Program is for testing new features, not a public beta test group for typical Windows Updates.
Anybody can apply to Insider program AFAIK, so in a way, yeah, it's public.
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Old 07-27-2015, 11:50 AM   #96
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... they want us to buy Pro.
and, for those doing audio work, maybe that's the right thing to do.

and then there's this:

http://betanews.com/2015/07/26/windo...your-computer/


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Old 07-27-2015, 12:04 PM   #97
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yeah, it's public.
That's not, what I meant.

Sure, the Insider Program is public, but it is not a Windows Update testing group.
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Old 07-27-2015, 12:09 PM   #98
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This article is clear proof, that forced updates are a no-go and will lead into a disaster. The masses out there have a Home edition of 7 or 8 and will stay with 10 Home, because they are not willing to pay.
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Old 07-27-2015, 12:36 PM   #99
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And then, you can simply tell Windows not to update your drivers for a particular device - this works in Home and Pro and everywhere:

http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/media...0/original.jpg


Security updates are fine and welcome. Driver updates are something that I agree shouldn't be mandatory to be installed via WU. Thankfully you can deal with that, as shown above.

Last edited by EvilDragon; 07-27-2015 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 07-27-2015, 12:38 PM   #100
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"Microsoft Backtracks On Windows 10 Forced Updates":
http://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyle...orced-updates/
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Old 07-27-2015, 12:59 PM   #101
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"Microsoft Backtracks On Windows 10 Forced Updates"
But only for drivers ... the risk of getting buggy patches installed remains.
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Old 07-27-2015, 01:01 PM   #102
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Buggy drivers are usually the most common culprit of issues. Buggy patches much less so. This is especially true of graphics card drivers.
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Old 07-27-2015, 01:09 PM   #103
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There's no need to jump on the bandwagon - you have up to a year to upgrade.

Remember that with the release of W10, 7 becomes the 'ugly red-headed step child' (a position formerly held by XP) in terms of support both from MS and all the vendors.
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Old 07-27-2015, 01:35 PM   #104
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W7 will be supported till 2020.
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Old 07-27-2015, 01:49 PM   #105
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W7 will be supported till 2020.
But your computer WILL self destruct the day after
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Old 07-27-2015, 01:55 PM   #106
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This article is clear proof, that forced updates are a no-go and will lead into a disaster. The masses out there have a Home edition of 7 or 8 and will stay with 10 Home, because they are not willing to pay.
then maybe they shouldn't be trying to do pro-level work on a home-level os.

on the other hand, if this topic is getting this much discussion here, and articles are coming out about problems with it, ms is surely aware of it. i'd guess that it will be sorted out sometime soon.

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Old 07-27-2015, 02:06 PM   #107
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then maybe they shouldn't be trying to do pro-level work on a home-level os.
Why spend money on pro, when home was always sufficient so far. As Dragon already explained, many DAW users don't need so much RAM. So this update debacle is the only show stopper for most audio geeks.

Until MS learns it's lesson might take some time. It's wise to wait with the upgrade.
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Old 07-27-2015, 02:28 PM   #108
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i doubt that part of the daw market that's on windows home is going to teach ms much of a lesson. lot more home users who are not doing daw work.
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Old 07-27-2015, 02:32 PM   #109
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And I highly doubt it's better now, because the Insider Program is for testing new features, not a public beta test group for typical Windows Updates.

MS released many, many patches, that were a pure disaster on day one and released version 2 a week later. And I'm talking not only about Windows, but also server systems like Exchange. And you can count on it, patch quality will not become better in the near future!

That's why I always (!) wait a minimum of a week, until I install new patches ... this way I avoided much trouble. And this won't no longer possible with Win 10 Home, except when I deactivate the Windows Update service, what I don't want, because I want patch notifications.

This politics by MS is pure crap and Win 10 Home an absolute no-go for many customers. And there's only one reason for that politics, they want us to buy Pro.
Initial beta was invitational and a tech preview, with lots of scary shit in the early days.
Once it went to public beta, which sort of became the insider programme, it was pretty much a public beta by another name.
And as was already pointed out you could install either the slow-lane safe build or the latest riskiest one - your choice, so MS got the best of both worlds.
Dumbos like me plodding on the stable release version and the damn the torpedoes lobby playing with the latest latest build.
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Old 07-27-2015, 04:01 PM   #110
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W7 will be supported till 2020.
Actually mainstream support for W7 has ended. Extended support is basically a 'patch anything critical but nothing new' mode.
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Old 07-27-2015, 04:23 PM   #111
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Actually mainstream support for W7 has ended. Extended support is basically a 'patch anything critical but nothing new' mode.
Exactly how it was with XP.
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Old 07-27-2015, 04:35 PM   #112
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Exactly how it was with XP.
And there's only 1/4 of a billion people using that now.
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Old 07-27-2015, 06:00 PM   #113
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To me it's not so much the risk that something terrible will happen to the OS in general and break my computer, it's the work I have to do to make sure that nothing bad has happened after a set of updates has been installed, and/or the work I have to do to and/or attention I have to pay to make sure that the updates are deferred/installed at times that are convenient for me, and so forth.

I'm sure there will be issues now and then with bad updates, but i'm not really sweating that; i.e. i'm not worried about bricking my computer or losing some particular function for a day; it's that the OS isn't designed for real-time audio enthusiasts first in mind, so we tweak the default OS to achieve that performance, and updates that affect that performance in some way aren't hard to imagine, and it takes some time/attention/$ to keep things smooth when the OS is changing underneath you. Again: new services installed? New startups? New dialog boxes popping up? Preferences/services that you set in the past being set back to defaults? Etc. Even if the drivers are now optional, there are lots of things that a DAW user considers "significant" and maintaining those things is gonna take some amount of effort.

I suspect that most DAW operators are working under the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy with their OS: get it dialed in, image the partition, and leave it the heck alone, until there is a pressing security need or a particular feature that compels an upgrade. They don't install updates recreationally, and won't appreciate having them foisted upon them.

MS seems to be saying "hey everyone, if you want to be lax in your updating, or tightly control it, that's fine, but you have to pay a $200 fee to join that club", and it's just a bummer to have to pony up for a "feature" (disabling updates) that costs them nothing (and in fact costs them something to remove/enforce.) I'm not even saying it's unfair or crazy: it's their privilege to decide that controlling your OS at that level is a "pro" feature, and that the herd immunity (and overall control for reasons perhaps not so charitable) is worth a few disgruntled users. Those of us that dwell in between "home" and "pro" are stuck in the middle, and now have go "pro" to have a level of control that seems to me a pretty reasonable thing to expect with any OS, Home or Pro.

I am curious about those details, but I suppose everyone is... from that article: "in April senior Microsoft product marketing manager Helen Harmetz said during a Windows 10 webinar that users who forcibly stopped any Windows 10 updates would eventually have their security updates cut off"... lots of questions remain...

Anyway, until I have a spare $200 lying around, I guess I'll continue to live happily with 8.1, which runs my DAW just fine.
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Old 07-27-2015, 08:52 PM   #114
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W7 will be supported till 2020.
I may even wait until 2020.

I'm not joking one bit: I don't mind the 'flat look' when it's just something like Valhalla's reverb plugins, but I keep telling everybody -- this Win 8 and 10 look is SO incredibly butt ugly that I may finally bail and go to Apple and stay there.

I really think Microsoft has totally gone alcoholic or on drugs. Seems they can't get anything right anymore. For all the new version OS business, you'd think the audio performance would be worlds better by Win 10 ... but NO, not much improved at all. MS: what a bunch of overpaid idiots!

When I complain anywhere about the gross UGLY of the Win 10 look, some fool always responds that it takes less CPU than running that gorgeous AeroGlass. This remark from people ignores the fact that computers are CPU-performance monsters these days, and it takes like .00001% of a typical PC's CPU to power AeroGlass.

Let's get a Windows that I can stand to stare at for more than 5 minutes without puking. Why FLAT? Why ugly-coloured PASTELS? Why those stupid PANELS that make it look like a cheap smart phone.

Why not something really beautiful? Something even more stunning than AeroGlass ... or just let me keep the AeroGlass on Win 10.. I'm really starting to hate MS all over again -- a very dense, unhip bunch of people.

Oh ... and the other stupid thing I'll hear is that much of what's bad about Win 8.1 or 10 can be altered by the user ... little 3rd party 'classic look' programmes and so on. But, LOOK HERE -- I'm the damn customer. I pays my hard-earned quid, I shouldn't have to fix some huge corporations foul work. I pay = I should get it just how I want it. You know, this is great example of what's wrong with companies, people and the world today. They forget who the customer is, how to treat them right.MS has been too full of itself for years, but it has come to a critical mass lately ... in their dog of a cell phone and lousy OS versions. I would not be surprised if they make themselves extinct, just like the path humans seem hell-bent to do before too long. We could see MS go under. Really.

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Old 07-27-2015, 10:01 PM   #115
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i doubt that part of the daw market that's on windows home is going to teach ms much of a lesson. lot more home users who are not doing daw work.
No, the DAW croud won't teach MS a lesson, but the complete Home users crowd might, when press reports the next Windows Update disaster after final release. I guess about 80% of non-enterprise installations are Home users ... most people buy a notebook with an OEM installation and stay with it.

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this Win 8 and 10 look is SO incredibly butt ugly that I may finally bail and go to Apple and stay there.
You might laugh, but I exactly did that ... I bought a Macbook Pro, though I first planned to wait for the first Win 10 notebook releases. I wanted a new notebook with less loud fans than my old Vaio. But after testing Win 10, I found the alphabetically sorted start menu unacceptable as this mentioned Windows Update enforcement and not to forget ... no more Media Center.

The Macbook was worth it ... dead silent even for microphone recordings and the OSX menus feal more familiar than this ribbon menus MS introduced with Office 2010. But the best is the Retina display ... I never would have guessed, that I will ever hate my monitor at work ... ugly pixel crap ... LOL

When I see how many new Mac magazines for Windows converts are on the German market, I guess there must be many people disappointed by MS.

PS: No, I'm not an Apple fan boy ... I even was an Apple hater before, so it was a hard decision for me to convert, but I didn't regret it.
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Old 07-27-2015, 11:15 PM   #116
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My concern is the exact opposite - how do I avoid ACCIDENTALLY upgrading to Windows 10?

I can't seem to get rid of the bloody logo in my taskbar. I don't need Win10 - I have the Insider build installed in my laptop and its fine. Don't need it in my workstation machine though. Win7 is ROCK freaking SOLID, so I don't see any advantages for music folks other than smarter window snapping (comeon when did you use that last with Reaper?).

'Cortana, fix my mix, and make this a hit.' << I'll upgrade then.
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The must-have sample library for shortcircuit :
Essentials Volume 1
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?...3313#note14891
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Old 07-28-2015, 12:20 AM   #117
ivansc
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(grin) I can remember reading identical threads to this pre-win98, win Millenium, win vista, win7......
It will be what it will be and before long we will all be using it and for the most part liking it, even if we don't actually love it.

Linux? Not ready for the big time as far as DAW software is concerned, but pretty damn good for everything else

Mac? They appear to have a bunch of problems with the OS in much the same vein as MS does these days. And YES the hardware is expensive for what it is.

So we all stay with 7 or 8 or 8.1 until the next toy we cant do without comes out that wont run in less than W10.
My laptop is going 10 straight away & the studio machine will follow within a month or two if all is still as good as the pres.
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Old 07-28-2015, 12:40 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyman_sam View Post
I can't seem to get rid of the bloody logo in my taskbar.
Nothing easier than that ... just uninstall KB3035583.
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Old 07-28-2015, 06:28 AM   #119
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Notes for anyone else looking for Drive space for the move to Win10.

Preparing my main system drive (a little 128GB SSD) for possible install of Win10 a week or so after it arrives.

I moved Reaper media folder to my other internal SSD. Big space saver.

Moved and wiped off some old Kontakt multi files (some of these are huge).
Hey presto several GBs free. They work fine.

I have 16GB, most I have ever used so far was about 12.5GB. Most projects under 5GB.
I Changed Swapfile from system managed to minimum 1024mb and Max 2048mb.
Okay I know I could disable altogether it or put it to 800mb minimum for crash dump file. This is working perfectly and saved tens of wasted GBs of space.

I uninstalled a HDMI audio driver for the graphics card too, pointless on my system. The system starts even quicker without it. I guess Win10 "Home Premium" may force me to have it installed; no biggie.

Next step when the drive is mean and lean (or close to it) clone the drive onto another HDD in case anything goes Pete Tong with the Win10 install.

Last edited by Softsynth; 07-28-2015 at 09:11 AM. Reason: Add note about cloning drive.
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Old 07-28-2015, 08:11 AM   #120
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Wh0t? one can not userdefine the colors when going 'classic' mode and personalizing anymore without hacking or something?
Please tell me this is not true and thinking of what one of my nitpicks'Fr with Reaper is, this is NOT funny! so stop laughing!
Ps, using an old theme I made on 8.1 works though.. but tweaking it on 10 would be hard if this is the way things goes atm.
NOT funny!-fu'y-ny + Replika on default.
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Last edited by SmajjL; 07-28-2015 at 08:26 AM.
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