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Old 03-04-2018, 07:52 AM   #1
anclark
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Default Musical notes become a mess after importing MIDI file

Hello everyone,

Here I got a bug when I'm migrating my projects from the old Cakewalk Pro Audio. I just exported my Cakewalk project into MIDI format (*.mid), and imported it into REAPER. However, some musical notes became a mess, just like the pictures below:





So has anyone also encounted with this issue? Will this bug be fixed on the next release?

Thanks a lot.

AnClark
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 9d6ee2d875056c6844604ffae8e988bb.jpg (58.0 KB, 40 views)
File Type: jpg 388d225a83978dae75438cba7572fed9.jpg (44.2 KB, 28 views)

Last edited by anclark; 03-04-2018 at 08:16 AM. Reason: Add image link
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Old 03-04-2018, 07:58 AM   #2
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Looks like you have duplicate/overlapping note events in that MIDI file... There's an action in Reaper to sort out overlapping notes, try that.

Also, don't expect notation to be rendered exactly as it was rendered in Sonar.
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Old 03-04-2018, 08:19 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Looks like you have duplicate/overlapping note events in that MIDI file... There's an action in Reaper to sort out overlapping notes, try that.

Also, don't expect notation to be rendered exactly as it was rendered in Sonar.
As I know, the same MIDI file have no render problems in Cakewalk.

The issue above really troubled me, as I rely on staves to compose rather than piano roll.
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Old 03-04-2018, 08:22 AM   #4
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Well, Reaper doesn't have the same notation rendering engine as Sonar, so you cannot expect identical results, sorry. There are options regarding the use of ties, display quantization, etc. in Reaper, play a bit with those.

Either way, this definitely looks like there are definitely overlapping MIDI events happening in that MIDI file... Care to post it here?
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Old 03-04-2018, 08:30 AM   #5
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OK. This is an example which can prove if the issue exists.

https://github.com/AnClark/AnClark-R...m.mid?raw=true
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Old 03-04-2018, 08:42 AM   #6
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There are a lot of overlaps of the F2 and C3 notes - is that where the problem lies? Try "Correct overlapping notes" in the MIDI Editor.

Also, many of the notes seem to have a blank Note-Off value.
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Last edited by DarkStar; 03-04-2018 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 03-04-2018, 08:50 AM   #7
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Therein lies the problem.
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Old 03-04-2018, 02:30 PM   #8
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As the others have pointed out, the MIDI contains lots of overlapping notes.

Strangely, these notes seem to be extraneous and unnecessary. Not only should the overlaps be trimmed, but the overlapping notes should be removed entirely.

Try the following: Before importing the MIDI file, open the MIDI editor and activate the toolbar button for "Correct overlapping notes while editing". (Or activate the option from the MIDI editor section of the Actions list.) *Then* import the file. The option should automagically remove the extraneous notes. If not, remove them manually.

REAPER's notation view is quite powerful, and has lots of options to tweak and optimize the display. For example, if you activate the following two options, your MIDI should immediately look much better:
* Automatically voice overlapping notes
* Minimize ties for all notes by default

Also, select the short notes, right-click and move them to the top staff.

Last edited by juliansader; 03-04-2018 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 03-04-2018, 05:37 PM   #9
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OK, I'll have a try. But if you open the same file with other editors, you may see that some overlapping notes should be sticked on right claps.

This is what the notes should be:

Last edited by anclark; 03-04-2018 at 05:38 PM. Reason: Add picture
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Old 03-05-2018, 12:53 AM   #10
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Again - Reaper is not "all the other editors". Don't expect the same rendering of notation because it will not happen. You might need to adjust the MIDI data, and looking at your MIDI file, that definitely must be done because there's illegal data in there (notes without accompanying note offs is not allowed).
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Old 03-06-2018, 03:34 AM   #11
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It may be hard to solve this problem. Before Cockos fixed this "bug", I'll try to adjust my MIDI file, and at the same time contact the technical support for this bug.

Nevertheless, thanks a lot.
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Old 03-06-2018, 03:36 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Again - Reaper is not "all the other editors". Don't expect the same rendering of notation because it will not happen. You might need to adjust the MIDI data, and looking at your MIDI file, that definitely must be done because there's illegal data in there (notes without accompanying note offs is not allowed).
If you have other DAWs, would you love to check my MIDI section not with REAPER, but with another DAW?
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Old 03-06-2018, 03:37 AM   #13
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I only use Reaper.
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Old 03-06-2018, 03:43 AM   #14
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BTW here's how your MIDI file opens here (I have correct overlapping notes option enabled, and display quantization set to 1/16):

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Old 03-06-2018, 04:24 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
BTW here's how your MIDI file opens here (I have correct overlapping notes option enabled, and display quantization set to 1/16):

Amazing! Thanks a lot!
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Old 03-06-2018, 04:40 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
BTW here's how your MIDI file opens here (I have correct overlapping notes option enabled, and display quantization set to 1/16):

But I cannot see the "Correct overlapping notes" option in my Reaper 5.76.

---------------

Edit on 2018-3-6 19:50:46:

I found it in the Action List. But the notes still cannot render like your picture. If it were right, I could see a whole note in my stave.


Last edited by anclark; 03-06-2018 at 05:03 AM.
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Old 03-06-2018, 04:44 AM   #17
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In MIDI editor, Options->Automatically correct overlapping notes.
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Old 03-06-2018, 05:08 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anclark View Post
I found it in the Action List. But the notes still cannot render like your picture. If it were right, I could see a whole note in my stave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
In MIDI editor, Options->Automatically correct overlapping notes.
I don't think there is an overlap in this example; instead, use the options that I mentioned above:

* Automatically voice overlapping notes
* Minimize ties for all notes by default

Also, select the short notes, right-click and move them to the top staff

It will be worth your while to browse through all the "Notation" actions in the MIDI editor's Actions list, as well as all the options in the right-click context menus. REAPER's notation editor is surprisingly powerful, once you get to know it. There are also numerous helpful tutorial videos on Youtube for REAPER's MIDI editor.

Last edited by juliansader; 03-06-2018 at 05:16 AM.
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Old 03-06-2018, 05:12 AM   #19
anclark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
In MIDI editor, Options->Automatically correct overlapping notes.
I turned it on, and rewrote a section. But I still cannot see a whole note in the stave. If it were OK, my stave should look like yours, with whole note displayed.

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Old 03-06-2018, 05:18 AM   #20
anclark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
I don't think there is an overlap in this example; instead, use the options that I mentioned above:

* Automatically voice overlapping notes
* Minimize ties for all notes by default

Also, select the short notes, right-click and move them to the top staff

It will be worth your while to browse through all the "Notation" actions in the MIDI editor's Actions list, as well as all the options in the right-click context menus. There are also numerous helpful tutorial videos on Youtube for REAPER's MIDI editor.
Thanks a lot! After turned on the two options, now my stave looks much more prettier!

The two options hide too deep, causing me to take a long time to find out.

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Old 03-06-2018, 05:49 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
I don't think there is an overlap in this example
Well, I had that option enabled (and "minimize ties" DISabled), and when opening his MIDI file it looked like I posted...
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Old 03-06-2018, 05:53 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anclark View Post
If you have other DAWs, would you love to check my MIDI section not with REAPER, but with another DAW?
Here it is in EnergyXT v1, Tracktion 7 and Reaper:

>>> https://i.imgur.com/wkcka4V.png

In eXT1 and Tracktion I removed all but the F2 notes, then moved some of those onto F#2. NB: a bug in eXT1 shows the length in ticks as 1 too many. In Reaper I had to transpose many more notes to separate them.

Here's my theory:
(a) Reaper is getting confused by the overlapping notes, each of which has its Note Off.

(b) In the other hosts the notes are ended differently:
-- the first note (F#2 in Reaper) is ended when the next Note On (F2 in Reaper) is received
-- the second note (F2 in Reaper) is ended when the next Note Off (from the F#2 in Reaper) is received
-- the third note (E2 in Reaper) is ended when the next Note On (E#2 in Reaper) is received
-- the fourth note (D#2 in Reaper) is ended when the next Note Off (F2 in Reaper) is received
-- the fifth note (the second F2 in Reaper) is ended when the next Note Off (E2 in Reaper) is received
-- and so on

(c) Also, note that, in Reaper, the last 6 notes has a Note Off value of 0 while the preceding notes all show "--" (maybe that means "not found in time"?); those 6 all ended at the end of the clip.

So there is something funky going on in Reaper. But the Cakewalk program should not be overlapping them anyway
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Old 03-07-2018, 05:42 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
Here it is in EnergyXT v1, Tracktion 7 and Reaper:

>>> https://i.imgur.com/wkcka4V.png

In eXT1 and Tracktion I removed all but the F2 notes, then moved some of those onto F#2. NB: a bug in eXT1 shows the length in ticks as 1 too many. In Reaper I had to transpose many more notes to separate them.

Here's my theory:
(a) Reaper is getting confused by the overlapping notes, each of which has its Note Off.

(b) In the other hosts the notes are ended differently:
-- the first note (F#2 in Reaper) is ended when the next Note On (F2 in Reaper) is received
-- the second note (F2 in Reaper) is ended when the next Note Off (from the F#2 in Reaper) is received
-- the third note (E2 in Reaper) is ended when the next Note On (E#2 in Reaper) is received
-- the fourth note (D#2 in Reaper) is ended when the next Note Off (F2 in Reaper) is received
-- the fifth note (the second F2 in Reaper) is ended when the next Note Off (E2 in Reaper) is received
-- and so on

(c) Also, note that, in Reaper, the last 6 notes has a Note Off value of 0 while the preceding notes all show "--" (maybe that means "not found in time"?); those 6 all ended at the end of the clip.

So there is something funky going on in Reaper. But the Cakewalk program should not be overlapping them anyway
Maybe this is why the mess occured!
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