Old 05-26-2019, 01:59 PM   #1
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Default RME USB Stuff

I see MOTU has been 4 years without a USB update, perhaps they are now out of the game.

I see RME has a four ADAT port device called the Digiface USB. It has no word or spdif I dont think, but its LESS money than the HDSP9652

Are these things any good? How sketchy is USB compared to their PCI? If it were anyone else but RME I wouldnt bother asking, but RME are miracle workers

I could get that thing and then a X-ADAT card for my Midas M32 and then if I wanted use some other 8 channel to ADAT pres if I wanted
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Old 05-26-2019, 02:05 PM   #2
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I recorded my band a couple years ago using my UFX which was 20 simultaneous inputs into a Microsoft Surface over USB2 to a 32GB micro SD card. Pretty much no issues but keep in mind I don't have the requirement of monitoring through Reaper, TotalMix is my multi-headphone monitoring system.
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Old 05-26-2019, 02:40 PM   #3
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I recorded my band a couple years ago using my UFX which was 20 simultaneous inputs into a Microsoft Surface over USB2 to a 32GB micro SD card. Pretty much no issues but keep in mind I don't have the requirement of monitoring through Reaper, TotalMix is my multi-headphone monitoring system.
Hated TotalMix in the beginning. Love it now lol
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Old 05-26-2019, 02:50 PM   #4
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I'm starting to seriously consider the Digiface USB and an ADA8200 as my next interface, and probably add a Roland midi cable.

Karbo, what are the specs for your Surface? Mine is the Surface Pro 6 i7, 16GB, 1TB. Handles my Reaper projects just fine, not many tracks though.
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Old 05-26-2019, 02:51 PM   #5
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I see MOTU has been 4 years without a USB update, perhaps they are now out of the game.
What does that mean? MOTU just released updated drivers this month for all of their AVB/USB interfaces and also recently released some new interfaces (8-pre-es, 828es and UltraLite-mk4) all of which feature USB2.
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Old 05-26-2019, 02:52 PM   #6
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Karbo, what are the specs for your Surface? Mine is the Surface Pro 6 i7, 16GB, 1TB. Handles my Reaper projects just fine, not many tracks though.
Good question LOL. I think its a surface pro 2 8GB but don't quote me until I pull it out and look. I've had it for a number of years.
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Old 05-26-2019, 03:07 PM   #7
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I see RME has a four ADAT port device called the Digiface USB. It has no word or spdif I dont think, but its LESS money than the HDSP9652

Are these things any good? How sketchy is USB compared to their PCI? If it were anyone else but RME I wouldnt bother asking, but RME are miracle workers
They're rock solid. Same driver as all other RME USB devices. Same software. USB2 will get you up to 54 channels simultaneously. The Digiface USB allows 66 in total (32 in, 34 out @48 kHz, 24 bit). That's not counting internal loopbacks and channels used for internal mixes.

If I need a new interface, it'll probably be this one. 350 €, VAT and shipment incl.
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Old 05-26-2019, 08:56 PM   #8
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What does that mean? MOTU just released updated drivers this month for all of their AVB/USB interfaces and also recently released some new interfaces (8-pre-es, 828es and UltraLite-mk4) all of which feature USB2.
Weird, all I could find were 2015 ones and my 896 mk3 was running horrid
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Old 05-27-2019, 02:24 PM   #9
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Good question LOL. I think its a surface pro 2 8GB but don't quote me until I pull it out and look. I've had it for a number of years.
Thanks, gives me even more confidence that mine is plenty good enough for my needs.
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Old 05-28-2019, 12:54 AM   #10
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Huge RME fan here. I've been running a Fireface UFX for the last four years or so and it is rock solid. I'm about to purchase a second one to run as an extension to my studio inputs and as a portable live recording and mixing rig.

I regularly record extended live improvisations to 28 tracks simultaneously over USB2 with zero issues.
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Old 05-28-2019, 02:03 AM   #11
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USB one and a PCI one. Both run impeccably well & get very regular updates for drivers ansd firmware.
My Pci is the venerable 9652 HDSP which I am constantly amazed with, as it still does great work even after at least ten YEARS in service. Mostly I suspect because RME keep its software & firmware up to date stilL!
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Old 05-28-2019, 07:22 AM   #12
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You can't get any better than RME. Worldclass ADDA, worldclass audio-driver, with the ARC no monitorcontroller is needed, the lowest latency in the entire universe.
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Old 05-28-2019, 09:03 AM   #13
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You can't get any better than RME. Worldclass ADDA, worldclass audio-driver, with the ARC no monitorcontroller is needed, the lowest latency in the entire universe.
Just purchased an ARC USB last week and am absolutely loving it! Best addition to my UFX so far.

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Old 05-28-2019, 10:12 AM   #14
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Its crazy, REAPER started with RME (Justin is still today using that first HDSP9652 I sent him! It still runs!) and now it looks like I'm going back there soon

Crazy to think for the price I had to pay for my hardly working Dante stuff, I could have bought three of these Digiface USBs

I gotta figure out a way to sell this junk off
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Old 05-28-2019, 11:20 AM   #15
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RME forever !!!
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Old 05-28-2019, 12:30 PM   #16
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Weird, all I could find were 2015 ones and my 896 mk3 was running horrid
MOTU has been and still is one of the big players in audio interfaces. They are on board with audio over network, network connected control surfaces, etc. and their high end models use thunderbolt now. They keep expanding their integrated cuemixers too. MOTU is king for digital routing!

What's wrong with your 896mk3?

RME always has similar models to MOTU in feature sets. The RME will have AD & DA stages more the quality of Apogee and their similar model always seems to have one additional feature over the MOTU counterpart. I always looked at RME but then went with a combo of MOTU and Apogee. (More bang for the buck for my uses. YMMV) You do have to pay premium for RME but it looks like they're worth it (based on reviews). Windows users say that RME's drivers make their broken OS just work like nothing's wrong.

I've been happy with MOTU since their first 828.
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Old 05-28-2019, 08:19 PM   #17
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two of our rooms use 2408's, and you will not find a bigger MOTU fan than me, but the USB drivers for the last several years have been rather not up to par with their usual quality. RTL for the 896Mk3 is actually pretty high, nowhere near their firewire or PCI, even if RME's is

It was always a two horse race between rme and motu and the rest of the pack way behind, but now it seems like MOTU is back there as well

On the other hand, I know jack about thunderbolt. is it a common thing for windows now?
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Old 05-28-2019, 08:34 PM   #18
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Looks like MOTU has a slightly better product, features wise, to compete with the Digiface USB. The LP32 is a bit more expensive but has word I/O and AVB, which I hope will be better than Dante

I'm a bit sketched on the Digiface USB, as the only near affordable clock out there right now, the Art Syncgen, has only four outs total, so if you are running to devices that are self terminating with no termination defeat like most 8 channel to ADAT mic pres, you can get into some trouble
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Old 05-29-2019, 01:32 AM   #19
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I have a few MOTU 2408's and a 424 card. Can I actually use two of them at once as one ASIO interface on REAPER? I will eventually buy the RME Digiface USB, but no reason to be pound stupid if I already have this stuff

I could buy the ADAT card for my Midas M32 and be all set, is this doable?
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Old 05-29-2019, 08:10 AM   #20
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two of our rooms use 2408's, and you will not find a bigger MOTU fan than me, but the USB drivers for the last several years have been rather not up to par with their usual quality. RTL for the 896Mk3 is actually pretty high, nowhere near their firewire or PCI, even if RME's is

It was always a two horse race between rme and motu and the rest of the pack way behind, but now it seems like MOTU is back there as well

On the other hand, I know jack about thunderbolt. is it a common thing for windows now?
Ignorance is bliss then! I'm still using two firewire 828mk3 units.
I'll either move to thunderbolt or network audio if I need to upgrade or expand eventually. It would be a sideways move for me right now. I have the I/O I need and I can run low enough latency for live sound when needed with firewire.
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Old 05-29-2019, 08:20 AM   #21
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My Fireface UC still gets driver and firmware updates.

I've had mine since the beta period, i.e. early 2009. Solid all the way. They're still one of the few that make the hardware and write their own drivers.

Totalmix can be controlled via OSC or an MCU unit too. And with other stuff I never explored. Their manuals are easy to find. The forums are well kept. Their support is great. You can buy spare power bricks.... there you go.

Digiface USB seems like a great way to get use out of preamp boxes that I/O via ADAT. Amazing value, plus you get an I/O section that is electrically decoupled from any computer noise, since it's all optical ADAT connections.

Totalmix ought to be huge with all that available I/O .
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Old 05-29-2019, 08:55 AM   #22
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Do you think the version of totalmix on the digiface usb has loopback?
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Old 05-29-2019, 09:00 AM   #23
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The manual seems to imply yes...

https://www.rme-audio.de/download/dface_usb_e.pdf

Quote:
21.6 Recording a Submix - Loopback
TotalMix includes an internal loopback function, from the Hardware Outputs to the recording
software. Instead of the signal at the hardware input, the signal at the hardware output is sent to
the record software. This way, submixes can be recorded without an external loopback cable.
Also the playback from a software can be recorded by another software.
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Old 05-29-2019, 10:36 AM   #24
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For now, any idea if I can do some sort of software loopback on the 2408 mk2's? I'm betting I can do a hardware one OK, but it would be nice it it were software
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Old 05-29-2019, 08:53 PM   #25
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Do you think the version of totalmix on the digiface usb has loopback?
There's only one Ttotalmix. The only difference are effects. If the interface has the DSP needed, you have affects. The Digiface doesn't have that DSP, so no effects.
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Old 05-30-2019, 08:40 AM   #26
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It was always a two horse race between rme and motu and the rest of the pack way behind, but now it seems like MOTU is back there as well
Would you say it was a 2 horse race but one of the horses is a unicorn? :P

in all seriousness I owned a Motu16A and performance over thunderbolt was amazing. I have since sold it and I'm (hopefully) getting a Motu Stage B-16 which only has USB and AVB. AVB directly to my mac has alot of CPU overhead and latency is higher than just plain USB. :/ but the latency of AVB is still better than Dante with Dante Virtual Soundcard soooo......

Really PCIe/Thunderbolt are really the low-latency kings today
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Old 05-30-2019, 10:34 AM   #27
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Im still confused over the status of thunderbolt. Are there thunderbolt PCI cards for windows machines that don't have thunderbolt on the mobo? It was a huge buzz five years ago, and then only a few interfaces really suppported it, seemed very promising but very little press of just what is going on from a boots on the ground view
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Old 05-30-2019, 05:38 PM   #28
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you will never see pcie to thunderbolt because then it would be too easy for AMD users to use it :P
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Old 05-31-2019, 06:23 AM   #29
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As I understand it, the logic board needs native thunderbolt support circuitry. If your logic board doesn't have native thunderbolt, the pci expansion cards will not work. You can only add additional TB ports via pci.

In the best case scenario you may find a pci card that lets you connect a hard drive over TB and maybe you'll get USB 3 speeds. You'll get shut down if you expect steady, stable TB throughput.

I was hunting around for a pci TB solution for my Mac Pro a while back. (I don't need it. No TB accessories here yet. Just for the heck of it in case someone brought over a TB-only Mac and I wanted to use target disk mode.) The above "Nope! Give up now." response was one of the most unanimous forum responses I think I've ever had.

This one isn't an artificial software disable made to generate after market sales this time.

Now if someone can refute that...
If you have a TB pci card running on a pre-TB logic board machine with full performance, do tell!
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:04 AM   #30
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RME are the only manufacturer I know to run their own USB stack, this has enabled them to actually support their product. They're still supporting some of the oldest interfaces on the market.

Everyone? else is using "off-the-shelf" USB interface circuits. I believe this is a big part of why we lost a huge number of USB audio devices to Windows upgrades. Manufacturers made new chips, and just didn't support their old stuff on new operating systems. RME just drops a new firmware for the device and woot.

My Fireface UC got an update recently and thank god, because it was doing some weird shit after a Windows update.

I don't think there's an RME setup you can't use in a modern PC? There's definitely a few MOTU's you can't.
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:08 AM   #31
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you will never see pcie to thunderbolt because then it would be too easy for AMD users to use it :P
??
they can, it's available in card form and the spec is now open, AMD is free to implement.
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:27 AM   #32
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RME are the only manufacturer I know to run their own USB stack, this has enabled them to actually support their product. They're still supporting some of the oldest interfaces on the market.
^This and the fact that USB is pretty much always there on any machine available, backwards compatible within reason, has suitable bandwidth for the vast majority of our audio application needs (in direct opposition to most internet lore once we surpassed USB 1.1) and lower latency than anyone doing class compliant/USB due to RME writing their own stack.

All of the above makes me always favor USB over proprietary, near proprietary or more accurately the latest "flash in the pan" protocol. I got bit with FireWire for this exact reason and my 1800.00 USD FireFace 800 was a crap shoot since FireWire was and is far less common to find *and* had it's own chipset issues concerning DAWs - meaning I still use my FF800 but I have to ADAT connect it to my UFX - One reason I ended up with the UFX is because I could not easily switch computers with FireWire due to the above.

Too much trouble for all ^that, just get the RME and be done with it - Surely there is a way to test and return if not happy.
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Old 06-02-2019, 10:37 PM   #33
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??
they can, it's available in card form and the spec is now open, AMD is free to implement.
Just did some googling and looks like I am very wrong, and I'm admitting my fault here on the internet to say that yes, it looks like PCIe to Thunderbolt cards exist and may even work with AMD motherboards
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Old 06-02-2019, 10:50 PM   #34
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Just did some googling and looks like I am very wrong, and I'm admitting my fault here on the internet to say that yes, it looks like PCIe to Thunderbolt cards exist and may even work with AMD motherboards
Thunderbolt has been rolled into the upcoming USB4 spec even!
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Old 06-02-2019, 10:55 PM   #35
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Looks like MOTU has a slightly better product, features wise, to compete with the Digiface USB. The LP32 is a bit more expensive but has word I/O and AVB, which I hope will be better than Dante

I'm a bit sketched on the Digiface USB, as the only near affordable clock out there right now, the Art Syncgen, has only four outs total, so if you are running to devices that are self terminating with no termination defeat like most 8 channel to ADAT mic pres, you can get into some trouble
We talked in another thread previously about Dante. At the time, I was using DVS and Via for everything. My system would work fine for periods of time and then just completely quit on me, forcing a reboot.

I picked up an RME Digiface Dante (which i opted for almost ENTIRELY based on your experiences with the Focusrite Dante PCI card!) and everything has been rock-solid.

I'm getting very low latency, and TotalMix is incredible. I've completely ditched Dante Via for inter-app audio routing and I'm using RME's Loopback. Its working flawlessly.

From what I remember about your setup, a Digiface Dante would work perfectly.
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Old 06-03-2019, 12:41 AM   #36
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It probably could, but for the price of the X-Dante Card and the Rednet PCI card I could get two Digifaces and 2 X-ADAT cards

I'm selling my Dante stuff now. I picked up an X-ADAT card already and am running the ADAT card to a pair of MOTU 2408's which is working well, though they dont have totalmix so I'm having to give up some banks and do some siliness, but its all running.

As soon as my Dante stuff sells, I'll be picking up a Digiface USB and an X32 Rack I think
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Old 06-08-2019, 04:10 PM   #37
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Digiface USB is in the mail!
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Old 06-09-2019, 05:00 AM   #38
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Digiface USB is in the mail!
Very cool! Looking forward to hearing how it all works out for you.
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Old 06-15-2019, 12:06 PM   #39
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Woohoo! Setting it up. Is there any way to send say ASIO output 1/2 to WDM output 1/2?
Otherwise I do see a way to use the loopback I think

Making a setup like this pretty much

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Old 06-15-2019, 04:40 PM   #40
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The RME Digiface USB is having a lot of dropouts and other performance issues compared to the ancient MOTU 2408s I had in there.

I just now go it onto its own USB buss,m so maybe that will help, but what should I have in the "Madiface settings" app for "Enable MMCSS for ASIO" and what should REAPER options/prefs/audio/device Audio Thread Priority be set to?

Any other tricks?

In the MADIFACE Settings app, sync is staying locked as it should, and the dropouts arent always accompanied by a USB Diagnosis dropout indicator
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