Old 02-16-2016, 09:50 AM   #281
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Originally Posted by memyselfandus View Post
For you. What's wrong with options for other people? "Options" now gets rid of lots of fiddly feature requests later on. Lots of people who won't read any of this and will look for random things later.
Only a couple posts above:

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I'm sure the option to deviate from that wouldn't hurt because there's always someone who needs it for some reason
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Old 02-16-2016, 10:12 AM   #282
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I believe the issue there is, with no key signature enabled, there are 12 separate pitch hit areas within 3.5 staff lines. Even with a key signature enabled, there are 8 separate pitch hit areas within 3.5 staff lines. So there will be some overlap with note selection rectangles. Put another way, C and Db have the same selection rectangle, and half of it overlaps with the rectangle for D and Eb.
Maybe the hit areas could be still improved.
The most user friendly hit area would be vertically in the middle of color bar.
Here is an example of the problem in Reaper, this time with C Major scale enabled.


In PT the hit areas are intuitively in the middle of notes


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Old 02-16-2016, 11:23 AM   #283
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I love being able to have that midi-editor ish overlay
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Old 02-16-2016, 12:06 PM   #284
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One thing that would make me super happy and pretty much eliminate my need for using a notation program is the ability to enter notes via keyboard.

The two notation programs I've used that do this well are Noteworthy Composer and MuseScore.

MuseScore displays a cursor, and allows the user to type ABCDEFG and it will input the note closest to the cursor. CMD UP/DOWN move the cursor up and down an octave, and 1-5 change the note length of the next-inputted note. It also lets you use the cursor to select notes and use up/down to move the note up and down the staff.

Noteworthy Composer has a cursor that you can move up and down, and 1-5 change the note length.

Both of these programs allow you to highlight a set of notes and turn them into triplets as well.

Last edited by HSFlik; 02-16-2016 at 12:07 PM. Reason: Forgot to add note shifting.
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Old 02-16-2016, 12:51 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by HSFlik View Post
One thing that would make me super happy and pretty much eliminate my need for using a notation program is the ability to enter notes via keyboard.

The two notation programs I've used that do this well are Noteworthy Composer and MuseScore.

MuseScore displays a cursor, and allows the user to type ABCDEFG and it will input the note closest to the cursor. CMD UP/DOWN move the cursor up and down an octave, and 1-5 change the note length of the next-inputted note. It also lets you use the cursor to select notes and use up/down to move the note up and down the staff.

Noteworthy Composer has a cursor that you can move up and down, and 1-5 change the note length.

Both of these programs allow you to highlight a set of notes and turn them into triplets as well.
Go back through this thread, and through the latest thread in the pre-release forum and you'll see that these things have either already been implemented or requested It's good to see other people want these features too
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Old 02-16-2016, 01:28 PM   #286
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Maybe this is what you're looking for?


Seriously, if we could have piano roll and notation editors open at once, with feedback on edits updated at least 3x per second then I don't really see the need.

I'm used to dots, that's what I read off.
(grin) You just made my point about needing a hybrid staff for me!
Piano keyboard down the bottom is crap too.
Who needs an actual visualisation of a keyboard anyway? I am crap on keyboards, but can write for them.


Sorry - sidetracking the thread.
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Old 02-16-2016, 02:29 PM   #287
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You're crap on keyboards but maybe others aren't?

Also it's a great didactic tool having it scrolling vertically...
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Old 02-16-2016, 02:49 PM   #288
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Hey Schwa, great work so far!

I realise that this is all very WIP but if you're going to have a drum notation mode, it needs way more than just X note heads. Drum notation is moderately standardised but there can be a lot of variation since the staff might represent all manner of percussive things that can be included in a drum set.

Since there is no definitive (ie. universally accepted and not deviated from) standard, I think the only sane way to implement a drum/percussion mode is to allow the user to set up a note-number to note-style mapping, possibly even to specify which note-numbers belong on which lines of the staff. IIRC that's what MuseScore does (haven't looked for a while)

I'll happily volunteer my services as a drum notation consultant. It would be really cool if you can implement a decent drum scoring mode. I'll do anything I can to help make that happen.
+1

The drum note mapping feature could be implemented similar to how, in current versions of Reaper, note names can be loaded from a text file. This would enable the user to specify different mappings such as General MIDI, BFD3, etc.

I suggest that the text file should include not only the mapping from note number to staff position, but also the desired notehead symbol. Something like
100 3 x (for a hihat x notehead)
101 4 o (for a standard kickdrum notehead)
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Old 02-16-2016, 03:03 PM   #289
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+1

The drum note mapping feature could be implemented similar to how, in current versions of Reaper, note names can be loaded from a text file. This would enable the user to specify different mappings such as General MIDI, BFD3, etc.

I suggest that the text file should include not only the mapping from note number to staff position, but also the desired notehead symbol. Something like
100 3 x (for a hihat x notehead)
101 4 o (for a standard kickdrum notehead)
Plus 1,000 for drum scoring stuff. Percussion line etc
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Old 02-16-2016, 03:32 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
I love being able to have that midi-editor ish overlay
It is better referred to as a hybri- oh, never mind....
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Old 02-16-2016, 04:06 PM   #291
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Default Keysigs are not positioned correctly on Alto (C) clef

Bug found in v5.20 pre3, still exists in pre4

Keysigs are not positioned correctly on Alto (C) clef



In this case Eb, but it's the same for any Keysig. (I also suspect the other C clef may have a similar problem)

Same phrase on a treble clef:

Last edited by hamish; 02-16-2016 at 04:08 PM. Reason: add title
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Old 02-16-2016, 08:28 PM   #292
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Quantize Display is removing rests with length equal to QD setting (and not lengthening the notes (but it shouldn't be removing the rests anyway))...

1/32 ((starts are unquantized). ps, difficult to see dots)


1/16 (shouldn't be removing any 1/16th rests at 1/16th QD)


1/8
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Old 02-17-2016, 04:18 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
+1

The drum note mapping feature could be implemented similar to how, in current versions of Reaper, note names can be loaded from a text file. This would enable the user to specify different mappings such as General MIDI, BFD3, etc.

I suggest that the text file should include not only the mapping from note number to staff position, but also the desired notehead symbol. Something like
100 3 x (for a hihat x notehead)
101 4 o (for a standard kickdrum notehead)
Quote:
Originally Posted by memyselfandus View Post
Plus 1,000 for drum scoring stuff. Percussion line etc
Glad I'm not alone in wanting useful drum scoring. However as it's mostly about mapping specific notes to different symbols and staff lines, it's probably something that should be tackled when the rest of the standard notation stuff has been nailed down.
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Old 02-17-2016, 04:28 AM   #294
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On the subject of Quantize Display, at the moment it's global and we've mentioned per measure too but in an ideal world it would be....

Global/Track/Clef/Measure/Note

... with a minimum rest value (and perhaps an offset) with the same hierarchy.

Having notes set to 1/32nd with rests set to 1/8th, for example, would change the first image in the example above to the final result whilst still allowing for runs of short notes. For example a run of staccato 1/16ths (which would have a bunch of 1/32nd rests in between with QD set to 1/32nd) and a 1/32nd ornament.

Small gaps are part and parcel of playing, but small rests are much less common.
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Old 02-17-2016, 06:16 AM   #295
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Small usability FRs:

- Hover effect/color for events under the mouse cursor (making sure what I am about to select).
Suggestion: dark grey color for hover (if normal events are black, like currently)

- Selected notes/events get a different color.
Suggestion: blue should be great.

- Different mouse cursor when over selectable notes/events.

- Phantom events under mouse cursor, showing what a new event would look like (should the user click to create).

Last edited by Evan; 02-17-2016 at 10:41 AM.
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Old 02-17-2016, 06:17 AM   #296
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Quote:
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Usability FRs:

- Hover effect/color for events under the mouse cursor (making sure what I am about to select).
yes, this is what I meant earlier. would like this very much.
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Old 02-17-2016, 01:05 PM   #297
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Just for completeness, that would be non-standard. When notating lyrics, it's typical to move the dynamics above the staff.

After things stabilize a bit, we can add an option to display dynamics above or below the staff, or automatically choose a lane based on the existence of lyrics.

Sibelius and classical music notation is a non-standard for you Schwa?
Are you serious? After reading the thread I even don't feel to try the new pre's, because I would get nuts with such "standard" approach plus I lack time for bug-reporting ATM. Please, get some help. I know you do not make a lot of money, anyways there are a lot of classical musicians who would help you for free.
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Old 02-17-2016, 01:16 PM   #298
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Sibelius and classical music notation is a non-standard for you Schwa?
What are you talking about?! Schwa was saying that it's non-standard to have the dynamics below the lyrics, which it is - although Sibelius does this by default.

This is what it says in the Essential Dictionary of Music Notation:
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Old 02-17-2016, 01:50 PM   #299
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What are you talking about?! Schwa was saying that its' non-standard to have the dynamics below the lyrics, which it is - although Sibelius does this by default.

This is what it says in the Essential Dictionary of Music Notation:
No, Schwa was not saying that. You are saying that and it was not a point of discussion. I guess you mistyped the sentence.
The dictionary is saying STH that is not in use here with me and not with Sib. And there are reasons why it is so. If Sib does not care about collisions than it is for a reason, believe me
And yes, you can make it happen above the music in Sib as well, but few people would do it. At least in my experience.

I'll just wait until I have time to study the new release a bit. Until then it is at least good to see so many of users happy!
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Old 02-17-2016, 02:01 PM   #300
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I guess you mistyped the sentence.
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Old 02-17-2016, 02:11 PM   #301
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Man this is so awesome already. I LOVE the option to see the grid lines in the notation view. Awesome.

One thing. It doesn't seem to know what to do with stuff like 7 notes per bar and stuff. I do this a lot. Punch in say 7 16th notes and stretch the notes over one bar in 4/4. Looks like it should in the piano roll but It creates random note values in notation view. that make up the time though. If this makes sense.

Notation view is already looking amazing wow

Now can we put a eigth note on a beat and put a quarter note on the same beat? In Sibelius you have to use multiple voicings to do this.

Let's say you have a chord on beat 1 and you want the bottom note of the chord to ring out for 2 beats and have the other two notes ring out for 1. You have a half note with two quarter notes above it. I tried this and it's not working. But if this will be possible in the notation view in reaper it will be a big deal.

I'm thinking this will be easy to add because other stuff is based on the piano roll already and it's possible in the piano roll.

Edit

I did it in the piano roll and it shows up properly in notation view! Awesome. Now for me to figure out how to do this directly from notation view. Multiple note values on same beat.

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Old 02-17-2016, 02:18 PM   #302
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pre5, thank you for the voices schwa!

Some problems with this:

-Rest aren't calculated and displayed properly, if a high voice has notes and the low voice not they should have rests, also vice versa.

-Can we have a button or just the editor to remember in wich voice we are currently until we change the voice again? If you select the high voice and enter a note, the next one is low voice again.

if all settles a bit perhaps you can add two voices more, standard rule because of -> bass, tenor, alt and sopran.
Then it would be PERFECT!

BTW you are fast as lightning other programmers need years to properly implement those features...
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Old 02-17-2016, 02:35 PM   #303
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One of my dreams is to be able to tell reaper what key a item is in and show scale degrees on the note heads. Rhythm slashes too. And Nashville number system stuff.

Can we get the accents we add in notation view to affect the actual velocities? For instance in the piano roll? Or is it just visual for now? Good god this would be great for programming drum stuff. And then get into actions that will affect specif beats through specific bars and stuff.

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Old 02-17-2016, 03:11 PM   #304
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5.20pre5
Don't know if it has been stated before, but if you zoom in to one measure the tie to the following measure vanishes.
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Old 02-17-2016, 03:15 PM   #305
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Bug, Reaper 5.20pre5:
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Old 02-17-2016, 03:38 PM   #306
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Default Keysigs on Alto Clef FIXED (v5.20 pre5)

Excellent.


In fact I'd go so as far as to say

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Old 02-17-2016, 04:22 PM   #307
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Can we get a option for the number of bars in notation view to default to number of bars contained in the midi item? Click on a one bar midi item and when you switch to notation view there is one bar of notation. Just a option. I like it the way it is right now too. Depends.

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Old 02-17-2016, 04:39 PM   #308
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Default 5.20 pre5 Bottom stave not viewable at some zoom levels and window sizes

Bug 5.20 pre5 Bottom stave not viewable at some zoom levels and window sizes

On windows 7 with floating (un-docked) MIDI editor window, the scroll bar does not work as expected at some zoom levels and some window sizes.

The stave is only partly visible.

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Old 02-17-2016, 04:42 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by Zephyrus View Post
-Can we have a button or just the editor to remember in wich voice we are currently until we change the voice again? If you select the high voice and enter a note, the next one is low voice again.

if all settles a bit perhaps you can add two voices more, standard rule because of -> bass, tenor, alt and sopran.
Then it would be PERFECT!
+1 Well said. May even mean that import/export with MuseScore voices may be preserved. (WHEN MusicXML is implemented, which I know is another whole development cycle away... Just puttin' in an early notice request )
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Old 02-18-2016, 12:09 AM   #310
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Thank you for the zoom limit.

-----------
Just my feeling, at this time:
REAPER behaves like REAPER, xyz behaves like xyz.
I like REAPER because it behaves different from xyz.
Always such compares from people with xyz.
If people want REAPER should behave the same like xyz, they should use yxz!
And maybe some want to much? At this time, the notation is not only one note stuff
for overview anymore, it is already one "adult" notation editor, that behaves like REAPER style stuff.

So thank you Devs.
------------

How about Simple-Volta´s which
acts together for/with Loop Item Source?
1.
Page View - simple Volta folded -for Loop Item Source - much better and easier I think

2.
Non Page View - Volta unfolded for Loop Item Source ..

or folded/unfolded with option or whatever..

...just an Suggestion/Comment

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Old 02-18-2016, 03:14 AM   #311
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Great stuff with pre 5 voicing and key sig changes.

While the IDE is open at do-stuff-within-item.cpp, could you have a look at introducing clef changes por favor?
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Old 02-18-2016, 05:25 AM   #312
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is it possible o open a midi item in reaper in an external editor or notation software like muse-score?same idea as opening audio in an external editor for eg Adobe Audition.
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Old 02-18-2016, 07:02 AM   #313
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Yes, you need to set the external editor for .MID files to the editor you want (in Prefs->External Editors). Then you can open MIDI items by converting them to .MID (right click on item->Item processing->Convert active take to .MID...). Then right-click and "Open items in editor" and choose your editor.

The editor has to support opening .MID files from the command line.
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Old 02-18-2016, 07:25 AM   #314
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Just as a option.. Being able to pick the amount of bars would be perfect! Draw a 1 bar midi item and get 1 bar of notation.
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Old 02-18-2016, 08:30 AM   #315
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Default Whole bar rest position

Great to see a notation editor finally being added to REAPER!

Three obvious things I notice on taking a first look which affect readability:

1. Whole bar rests should "hang" from the 4th line (counting from the bottom - i.e., Treble clef D, Bass Clef F, Alto Clef E), and not from the 3rd line as at present.

2. Note head size/placement: These are slightly too small in relation to the stave, making them less easy to read than they might be...

Noteheads in a space should fill the space and touch both stave lines on either side (above and below). Currently (as of pre 5), there is a gap between the noteheads and the stave line below them.

3. Similar to no.2 above. Time Signatures - these should fill the height of a 5-line stave. Again, currently there is a gap between the bottom of the Time Signature and the lowest stave line.

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Old 02-18-2016, 05:48 PM   #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed209 View Post
Still on the buggy side: tuplet handling
Improvements for the next build:

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Old 02-18-2016, 06:24 PM   #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Improvements for the next build:

It's all so beautiful
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Old 02-18-2016, 08:15 PM   #318
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Lots of good stuff here. I've updated the first few posts based on feedback thus far (trying to limit redundancy).

Has anyone messed with inserting multiple key signatures on a single MIDI item? If so, how does it work? I only see the option for the key signature at the beginning of an item.

EDIT: nevermind, I see it. I was clicking too close to the first note entry point.
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Old 02-19-2016, 08:02 AM   #319
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I made a small comparison.
midi file created in Reaper and dropped into musescore



musescore looks tidier.they playback obviously the same but somehow musescore seem more accurate.the first note value is not correct in reaper I think?
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Old 02-19-2016, 08:23 AM   #320
memyselfandus
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Dare we ask for microtonal markings? Ducks
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